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Third Secret of Fatima and Russia
November 30/2010

Posted on 11/30/2010 7:38:28 PM PST by pf707

ONE:

In her memoirs, Lucia writes of a warning spoken by Mary pertaining to the failure of Vatican officials to obey her requests in a timely manner...before the point Russia reeks havoc upon the world: "Later...Our Lady said to me, complaining: "Not wishing to attend to my request! Like the King of France, they will repent then make it happen, but it will be (done) late. Russia will have already spread it's errors through the world, provoking wars, and persecutions of the Church: The Pope will have much to suffer." (in Portuguese: Mais tarde...Nossa Senhora disse-me, queixando-se: Não quiseram atender ao Meu pedido! Como o rei de França, arrepender-se-ão e fá-la-ão, mas será tarde. A Rússia terá já espalhado os seus erros pelo mundo, mundo, provocando guerras, perseguições à igreja: O Santo Padre terá muito que sofrer)

The word "repent" was translated from the Portuguese "arrepender-se-ão" also meaning "to regret/be sorry for" (http://dictionary.reverso.net/portuguese-english/arrepender ).

Through Lucia, Mary made two requests of the Church: 1) publicly consecrate Russia to Mary's heart. 2)open the Third Secret to the world in 1960.

TWO:

In 1980, during a trip to Fulda Germany, Pope John Paul II made remarks about the Third Secret. He stated that: "my predecessors in the Petrine office diplomatically preferred to postpone publication so as not to encourage the world power of Communism to make certain moves."

We already know that the Fatima prophecies speak precisely about Russia and more particularly "Russia's errors" rather than "communism." Thus in all likelihood JPII is referring to the then communist superpower RUSSIA when using the broader term "world power of communism."

For the Vatican to withhold publication of the Third Secret for decades due to fear of the Russians/Communists reacting with "certain moves" indicates that those "certain moves" are significant and grave. For instance the Third Secret may contain provocative words that infuriate Russia into a vengeful military attack against the Vatican.

A third secret element that would definitely infuriate Russia would be something along the lines of a prophecy that states: the leader of Russia at the time of the chastisement is possessed by demons from hell!

THREE:

During the Vatican's release of the "vision" portion of the Third Secret in June 26, 2000, Cardinal Ratzinger(now the Pope) wrote for the commentary: "Here it would be appropriate to mention a phrase from the letter which Sister Lucia wrote to the Holy Father on 12 May 1982: “The THIRD PART of the ‘secret' refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not, [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated'”

Ratzinger's words in June 2000 explicitly reveals that the Third Secret vision pertains to RUSSIA'S errors "causing wars and persecutions of the Church".

Therefore in order for a FUTURE fulfillment of the Third Secret of Fatima that involves a violent religious persecution and a Pope killed by soldiers...RUSSIA must in the FUTURE, become politically transformed into the tool that serves as the primary cause that brings about the period of religious persecution prophesied by the Fatima Prophecies. It is Russia that God uses to punish the world with war and persecution, suffering of the Pope, and annihilation.

If the Vatican considered there was even a 1% chance the Fatima Prophecy were a divine message from God, despite the conspiracy to hide the existence of the "words" of the Third Secret in June 2000, they would have certainly taken precaution against God's wrath by hedging their bet and actually reveal the gist of the Secret albeit less directly. Which they did in the commentary when Ratzinger included that quote attributed to the seer(Lucia), once again being: "Here it would be appropriate to mention a phrase from the letter which Sister Lucia wrote to the Holy Father on 12 May 1982: “The THIRD PART of the ‘secret' refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not, [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated'”

So the real secret is that the Third portion of the Secret and the Second portion are actually two parts of one single unified secret. The reference to world war I and world war II in the second secret would be brief mentions of the two wars that would precede a separate Russian driven chastisement. Previous events regarding Russia and world war II would be shadows of future events to come.

Russia would be heading towards a moment of war that would change everything.

FOUR:

Malachi Martin, Secretary of high ranking Cardinal Bea, was shown the Third Secret in the 1960's.

Eight years before Ratzinger's June 2000 commentary, in Malachi Martin's 1992 book "The Keys of this Blood" (pg630-631), he indicated the role of Russia with the comments :

i)"Russia, according to the text of the 'Third Secret,' was the regulator of the timetable."

ii)"Lucia's single-page written formulation of the "Third Secret" covers three main topics. (1) A Physical chastisement of the nations...(2) A spiritual chastisement...(3) A central function of Russia in the two ...(which)..In fact, the physical and spiritual chastisements, according to Lucia's letter, are to be gridded on a fateful timetable in which Russia is the ratchet."

FIVE:

Long before Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the June 2000 commentary, the Cardinal released a book containing an interview given by him to Vittorio Messori which included some questions about the Third Secret. The interview occurred in the mid 1980's.

Detailed on pages 109 and 110 of his book "The Ratzinger Report":

-"Cardinal Ratzinger, have you read the so-called 'third secret of Fatima'...?" -The reply is immediate and dry: "Yes, I have read it."

At the end of the question's pertaining to the Third Secret, after Ratzinger states "to publish the 'third secret' would mean exposing the Church to the danger of sensationalism" Vittorio Messori then writes: "that Perhaps also political implications, I venture, since it seems that here, also, as in the two other "secrets," Russia is mentioned? At this point however, the Cardinal declares that he is not in a position to go further into the matter and firmly refuses to discuss particulars."

-Cardinal Ratzinger's reaction to the mention of the word "Russia" in the context of the Third Secret demonstrates Vittorio's question hit a nerve. if Russia was NOT mentioned in the Secret, Ratzinger would have no need to react as such. His reaction seemed to indicate at that time that he was instructed in 1984 not to reveal that Russia was part of the Secret and not to falsely deny that Russia was part of the Secret. That would explain Ratzinger's choice to evade the subject at the mere mention of Russia.

SIX:

For his 1947 book "Our Lady of Fatima" author William Thomas Walsh interviewed Sister Lucia in 1946 --a year she was not yet forbidden to give interviews.

On page 221 of "Our Lady of Fatima", Walsh writes:

"she said more than once and with deliberate emphasis: "What Our Lady wants is that the Pope and all the bishops in the world shall consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart on one special day. If this is done, She will convert Russia and there will be peace. If it is not done, the errors of Russia will spread through every country in the world.' " "Does this mean, in your opinion, that every country, without exception, will be overcome by Communism?" "Yes."(replied Lucia)."

Mary told Lucia that Russia's "errors" will spread to every country of the world, but in the 1940's to 1990 pretty much every believer in the world including Sister Lucia herself, would have assumed that Russia's errors were equatable with communism.

I would consider "Russia's errors" to be the tactics of a yet to arrive Russian Hitler that would rebuild the ego and glory of the Russian empire at the expense of the weak. These Russian errors could/would include such things as persecuting religious minorities at the behest of the majority, the blackmail of weaker nations, persecution of every kind of minority, declaring might as right/war to achieve all the needs of the state(attaining food, wealth, gas, slaves etc,) or something. Russia's tactics/errors that would spread to every country would be for egoism, diversion of attention, and ultimately to pacify the voting public during times of economic collapse, hunger, and chaos. The future Russia, possibly led by Vladimir Zhirinovsky, may echo some of the ways of the former communists, but it's behavior would be more extreme and frightening.

SEVEN:

The entire message of Fatima in entwined with Russia:

If divine forces are responsible for the Apparitions of Mary to Portugal in 1917, it is clear in context, that the major reason the year 1917 was selected for the Apparition to arrive was for the reason that Vladimir Lenin and the anti-religious Communists forced their way into power to take control of Russia less than one month after the Miracle of the Sun/Final Apparition.

Thus the Apparitions in the year 1917 establishes a connection between the Fatima Prophecies to a present and future transformation of Russia into a godless religious persecuting state.

From there, Mary indicates that even though she knows the Church officials will refuse to obey her requests thus dooming itself, she provides the remedy for world peace:

Her remedy given to the Church requires that the Pope in union with all the Bishops of the world in a public event "Consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart."

"If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church."

The request to Consecrate Russia appears as a simple test of faith imposed by Heaven to show faith in God's messenger and God...by forcing the Vatican to choose whether to risk some worldly interests for the sake of spiritual interests.

With the anti-religious communists in power in Russia, the request to consecrate Russia with the world watching, forces the Vatican to risk irritating and provoking the Soviet Union.

Releasing the WORDS of the Third Secret poses a significantly bigger threat to the Vatican's worldly interests. It's a bigger test of Faith. Not only does it's publication risk infuriating Russia, it risks making the Vatican lose substantial credibility if the dated prophecies seem to fail to materialize.

The noose seems to tighten even further around the Vatican's neck. Setting the stage for an extremely bad outcome when the moment of belief is finally reached. By having lied about the Third Secret in the year 2000, lied about Lucia's words in the year 2000, and lying in a book about the subject released in 2007(The Last Secret of Fatima-Cardinal Bertone)--as the abhorrent sexual scandal in the Church reaches it's climactic point in the future--the Vatican would be compelled to finally release the suppressed words of the Third Secret once the events have arrived and there is no longer doubt...but in doing so, the Vatican will have revealed to the entire world that it lied to protect it's earthly interests over Fatima thus appearing to much of the world that it is equally guilty of lying to protect it's skin in the explosively shocking sex scandal near the top of the Church that would have revealed itself at that time.

So...in order for the Pope to finally obey God and release the Third Secret, the cost in the end will be epic. It would be seen as a declaration of guilt over the future sex scandal, risking opening a floodgate of litigation that would impoverish the church coffers. It could doom someone very close to the Pope, Cardinal and friend, to prison. It would be seen as an abhorrent tactic to divert attention away from the sex scandal. It would be perceived as an abhorrent tactic to terrify everyone back to the Church at a desperate moment in time. It would bring down the wrath of Russia against the Vatican.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: fatima; missinglink; russia; secret; third
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1 posted on 11/30/2010 7:38:32 PM PST by pf707
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To: pf707

Link please?


2 posted on 11/30/2010 7:42:01 PM PST by airborne (Why is it we won't allow the Bible in school, but we will in prison? Think about it.)
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To: pf707

Woudl someone please tell me, when is the ‘time of chastisement’ supposed to begin?


3 posted on 11/30/2010 7:51:28 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: airborne

Is there a reason then that His HOliness and all the world’s bishops aren’t coming to Russia en masse to consecrate the country? Or do they prefer ot be like politicians who let eveyrthing og to pieces BEFORE they do something about it?


4 posted on 11/30/2010 8:01:28 PM PST by Niuhuru (The Internet is the digital AIDS; adapting and successfully destroying the MSM host.)
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To: Niuhuru

When we surrender to Islam - the bombs will fall.


5 posted on 11/30/2010 8:09:47 PM PST by x_plus_one (Who sews the wind reaps the storm...)
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To: pf707

bookmark


6 posted on 11/30/2010 8:15:51 PM PST by quintr
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To: pf707
Fatima - 1984 Consecration - EWTN

Rev. Father Robert J. Fox

I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.

And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them.

Coimbra, 3 July 1990

Sister Lucia
7 posted on 11/30/2010 8:21:40 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: pf707

The main message is really for all of us to pray and be a witness. The” secret” chronicles never stop. We rehash this all the time. Just pray most of all. Praise Jesus and Hail Mary like the angel honored her so know less a man can do also. Hail Mary! Praise Jesus for everything! Amen! So be It!


8 posted on 11/30/2010 8:39:43 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: pf707

It doesn’t matter what the third secret is. We are not to know the future anyway, so instead of stewing on the things that do not matter, prepare yourself for today.

Chasing apparitions only confuses people and the message. I believe in Fatima without the secret along with Lourdes, but take the message for what it is. PRAY! That is what Our Lady is telling us. There are only a handful of true apparitions, all others are from spirits that are trying to confuse and lead people away from God.

To discern a true apparition, look for the obedience of the seer to their local bishop. If there is any decent what so ever, they are not true. Our Lady would never, never ask a seer to disobey their local bishop. It does not matter what other bishops say, it is only the local that counts. God will give the local bishop the discernment needed in approving or disapproving an apparition.


9 posted on 11/30/2010 8:49:34 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: pf707; Religion Moderator

Source of this post, please.


10 posted on 11/30/2010 8:59:03 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: pf707

Are you the author of this article?


11 posted on 11/30/2010 9:09:38 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: pf707
the Third Secret may contain provocative words that infuriate Russia into a vengeful military attack against the Vatican.

Well, if you believe Mary is Divine and sinless and knows the future, wouldn't she (or Jesus) KNOW if Russia would be "infuriated"? And if so, choose other words?

A third secret element that would definitely infuriate Russia would be something along the lines of a prophecy that states: the leader of Russia at the time of the chastisement is possessed by demons from hell!

You've GOT to be joking!!! You think that would "infuriate" the Kremlin??? They don't even believe in God or Hell or demons!

12 posted on 11/30/2010 11:19:13 PM PST by sklar
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To: pf707

Do you have a source link for this? Thanks.


13 posted on 12/01/2010 5:16:24 AM PST by Sidebar Moderator
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To: Sidebar Moderator

I doubt he has a source. I’m 100% certain he wrote it himself. Writings like this are like the devils false apparitions, chaff to deceive and defeat the real message of Fatima, by obscurring it behind millions of undocumented conjectures.

The writer is trying to find/say/answer the question of; Why has not any pope yet consecrated Russia as requested at Fatima, and Why haven’t they revealed the completet 3rd secret? His personal conjectures are worthless vanity.

As examples of his undocumented conjecture to name a few:
“the infuriating of the Kremlin”
“the sodomite scandal having any bearing on not releasing the Fatima”

The article is accurate whenever it quotes from other sources, the problem is in the conjecturing above.

Chaff - radar-reflective aluminum foil strips ejected from aircraft with the intent of deceiving and defeating ground to air threat radars


14 posted on 12/01/2010 5:53:35 AM PST by verdugo
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To: Niuhuru
Sister Lucia never said that they have to physically go to Russia to consecrate it. The pope just has toconsecrate Russia in union with his bishops. How it would work would be the the pope and the bishops would either do it all together in Rome, or the bishops would do it simultaneuosly in their diocese. It's simple.

As to the reason why they have not done it, from my extensive readings, I've come to the conclusion that it's as simple as the reason why Namaan did not want to use the cure given to him. It is too simple, and thus they don't believe it, why should they risk their hides for that? (their thinking, not mine). The Vatican for some time has gone the route of appeasement of the communists (cowardness), and ecumenism with the the Russian Orthodox (another cowardly appeasement, for if Russia is converted as Our Lady said, obviously, the message is saying the Orthodox are a false religion).

Naaman the Syrian is cleansed of his leprosy. He professeth his belief in one God, promising to serve him. Giezi taketh gifts of Naaman, and is struck with leprosy.

1 Naaman, general of the army of the king of Syria, was a great man with his master, and honourable: for by him the Lord gave deliverance to Syria: and he was a valiant man and rich, but a leper. 2 Now there had gone out robbers from Syria, and had led away captive out of the land of Israel a little maid, and she waited upon Naaman's wife. 3 And she said to her: I wish my master had been with the prophet, that is in Samaria: he would certainly have healed him of the leprosy which he hath. 4 Then Naaman went in to his lord, and told him, saying: Thus and thus said the girl from the land of Israel. 5 And the king of Syria said to him: Go, and I will send a letter to the king of Israel. And he departed, and took with hin ten talents of silver, and six thousand pieces of gold, and ten changes of raiment, 6 And brought the letter to the king of Israel in these words: When thou shalt receive this letter, know that I have sent to thee Naaman my servant, that thou mayest heal him of his leprosy. 7 And when the king of Israel had read the letter, he rent his garments, and said: Am I God, to be able to kill and give life, that this man hath sent to me, to heal a man of his leprosy? mark, and see how he seekest occasions against me. 8 And when Eliseus the man of God had heard this, to wit, that the king of Israel had rent his garments, he sent to him saying: Why hast thou rent thy garments? let him come to me, and let him know that there is a prophet in Israel. 9 So Naaman came with his horses and chariots, and stood at the door of the house of Eliseus: 10 And Eliseus sent a messenger to him, saying: Go, and wash seven times in the Jordan, and thy flesh shall recover health, and thou shalt be clean. 11 Naaman was angry and went away, saying: I thought he would have come out to me, and standing would have invoked the name of the Lord his God, and touched with his hand the place of the leprosy, and healed me. 12 Are not the Abana, and the Pharphar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel, that I may wash in them, and be made clean? So as he turned, and was going away with indignation, 13 His servants came to him, and said to him: Father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, surely thou shouldst have done it: how much rather what he now hath said to thee: Wash, and thou shalt be clean? 14 Then he went down, and washed in the Jordan seven times: according to the word of the man of God, and his flesh was restored, like the flesh of a little child, and he was made clean. 15 And returning to the man of God with all his train, he came, and stood before him, and said: In truth, I know there is no other God in all the earth, but only in Israel: I beseech thee therefore take a blessing of thy servant. 16 But he answered: As the Lord liveth, before whom I stand, I will receive none. And when he pressed him, he still refused. 17 And Naaman said: As thou wilt: but I beseech thee, grant to me thy servant, to take from hence two mules' burden of earth: for thy servant will not henceforth offer holocaust, or victim, to other gods, but to the Lord. 18 But there is only this, for which thou shalt entreat the Lord for thy servant, when my master goeth into the temple of Remmon, to worship: and he leaneth upon my hand, if I bow down in the temple of Remmon, when he boweth down in the same place, that the Lord pardon me thy servant for this thing. 19 And he said to him: Go in peace. So he departed from him in the springtime of the earth. 20 But Giezi the servant of the man of God said: My master hath spared Naaman this Syrian, in not receiving of him that which he brought: as the Lord liveth, I will run after him, and take some thing of him: 21 And Giezi followed after Naaman: and when he saw him running after him, leapt down from his chariot to meet him, and said: Is all well? 22 And he said: Well: my master hath sent me to thee, saying: Just now there are come to me from mount Ephraim, two young men of the sons of the prophets: give them a talent of silver, and two changes of garments. 23 And Naaman said: It is better that thou take two talents. And he forced him, and bound two talents of silver in two bags, and two changes of garments, and laid them upon two of his servants, and they carried them before him. 24 And when he was come, and now it was the evening, he took them from their hands, and laid them up in the house, and sent the men away, and they departed. 25 But he went in, and stood before his master. And Eliseus said: Whence comest thou, Giezi? He answered: Thy servant went no whither. 26 But he said: Was not my heart present, when the man turned back from his chariot to meet thee? So now thou hast received money, and received garments, to buy oliveyards, and vineyards, and sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and maidservants. 27 But the leprosy of Naaman shall also stick to thee, and to thy seed for ever. And he went out from him a leper as white as snow. (4 Kings 5)

15 posted on 12/01/2010 6:13:11 AM PST by verdugo
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To: Religion Moderator; Sidebar Moderator

Yes I authored the article.


16 posted on 12/01/2010 4:00:07 PM PST by pf707
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To: sklar
Well, if you believe Mary is Divine and sinless and knows the future, wouldn't she (or Jesus) KNOW if Russia would be “infuriated”? And if so, choose other words?

I believe that it was a divine test imposed upon the Church. The risk involved with the test is that the Soviet Union/Russia could retaliate. Without the risk what would be the point of the test? If the Church was requested by Mary only to consecrate the “world” there would be no problems, no effort, and no meaningful test of faith.

With the Church keen on avoiding confrontation with Russia thus avoiding the Fatima requests, is it really inconceivable that Heaven will fulfill it's warnings against the Church by the hand of Russia. The Third Secret pertains to a great persecution.

As I've already indicated, the “Church Vs. Russia” and “Russia Vs. the Church” is a major theme that permeates the Fatima message, the destructive relation between the two is announced. Is this all about the past? I think not. 1960 was the year the Third Secret was to be opened to the world, so the great persecution cannot pertain to the time before that.

The only way to claim these events are behind us, is to support a consecration done by the Pope that is not centered on Russia, and believe a letter purported by Lucia is not a fabrication.

The body of evidence gets deeper when accounting for accurate La Salette English translations and certain documented comments regarding the Third Secret.

17 posted on 12/01/2010 4:02:19 PM PST by pf707
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

<<<’I come to answer your question, ‘If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?’ Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made. And I say that no other person responds for me, it is I who receive and open all letters and respond to them. Coimbra, 3 July 1990 Sister Lucia.>>>

The problem with that letter is that anyone could have fabricated it.


18 posted on 12/01/2010 4:02:23 PM PST by pf707
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To: pf707
The problem with that letter is that anyone could have fabricated it.

The other problem is nut jobs like you see a conspiracy behind every corner

It would be perceived as an abhorrent tactic to terrify everyone back to the Church at a desperate moment in time.

Your tin foil hat is on too tight

It would bring down the wrath of Russia against the Vatican.

So what. Wouldn't be the first time. Also, Christ promised to protect the Church. Don't you believe him?

19 posted on 12/01/2010 4:54:31 PM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pf707
This article is also posted here

www.godlikeproductions.com

Except for the last few paragraphs, the articles are verbatim. Either you're the author and changed the last few paragraphs, or you plagiarized it.

You should stick to conspiracy websites for this kind of garbage

20 posted on 12/01/2010 6:38:46 PM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pf707
pdf of Lucia letter

You need to read reliable sources. Fatima Crusader is not a reliable source. By their fruits they shall be known. Father Gruner has disobeyed all church authority, and continues with his falsehoods. You tell me which spirit leads his actions, it is surely not of God. Causing confusion and destruction of the original message is only an act of evil.
21 posted on 12/01/2010 6:40:08 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

This is the false hoax letter. Not really a hoax, more a disinformation attack on God’s people by Satan.


22 posted on 12/01/2010 6:48:10 PM PST by steve86
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid

Your comment truly is twisted in a most diabolical manner.


23 posted on 12/01/2010 6:50:43 PM PST by steve86
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To: pegleg

<< The other problem is nut jobs like you see a conspiracy behind every corner >>

The tagline beside your name says “but the truth must be sought” which is what I have done in order to understand the Fatima prophecies. However, the truth can be quite unpleasant which may be reason enough to forgo the search and focus on more noble things.

I know what I know. If you completely dismiss the extremely solid evidence of what Pope JPII, Cardinal Ratzinger, and Sister Lucia have stated that’s your prerogative. And that’s perfectly fine, at least for now.

The evidence I provided only deals with the central theme of Russia regarding the Third Secret. There are a couple of other themes that go far beyond what was provided in the Opening Post in demolishing the idea of the Fatima secret being fulfilled in the 1981 assassination attempt.

<< -It would bring down the wrath of Russia against the Vatican.-
So what. Wouldn’t be the first time. Also, Christ promised to protect the Church. Don’t you believe him?>>

I do not have such a cavalier attitude about the Fatima Secret. The Church will be persecuted, renewed by blood and go underground, but it will endure, if that’s what you mean by “protection.”


24 posted on 12/01/2010 7:54:04 PM PST by pf707
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To: steve86

Not sure what you think is twisted.


25 posted on 12/01/2010 8:01:38 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: steve86; pf707
Read about Nicholas Gruner here - written by: Rick Salbato

Fatima Reconsidered - written by: Rick Salbato

On May 13th 1981 ( the feast of Fatima) the Pope was Shot.

In the hospital his nurse said that Our Lady of Fatima had saved his life. He did not know a lot about Fatima so in the hospital he read every book he could get.

In 1981 the National conference of Catholic Bishops of the US sent a letter to the Holy Father requesting the Consecration

1982 - May 13th at Fatima - Consecrated world to IHM (Lucia said it was not correctly done)

So the Holy Father Sent his Secretary of State to Fatima and Lucia and Maccias Cohair sat with him for six hours explaining exactly how the consecration had to be done.

And on March 25, 1984 Pope John Paul and the bishops throughout the world consecrated Russia and the world to the IHM. Even Russian Orthodox Bishops entered in. A few years later Lucia said, Our Lady has accepted the 1984 consecration and She will keep Her promise."

This was exactly 100 years after the Vision of Pope Leo XIII. When Satan was granted 100 years to try and destroy God’s Church.

What happened after the Consecration on March 25th

Well, two months later, on the Feast of Fatima, May 13, an explosion in Sever-o-mor-ski destroyed 80% of Russia’s missals making them no longer a superpower. America did not know the extent of this explosion.

Again there was another strange happening on Dec 13. An explosion in Siberia destroyed Russia’s largest ammunition base

On Dec 19 Marshal Ustinov, the Minister of Defense died or was killed

Three days later Marshal Sodolov, the 2ed Minister of Defense died

All in 9 months

In March of 1985 (one Year after consecration) President Chernenko died and Mikhial Gorbachev was made President. He was the First Baptized Christian President although still a communist. He instituted glassnoss and perestroika (freedom of the press and freedom of religion) This was the downfall of communism. 15 republics were freed from communism, and the Warsaw pact ended

In 1989 Lucia said publicly that the Consecration was completed and that "God will keep His Word". That year on Nov 9th the Berlin Wall came down and Gorbachev meet Pope at the Vatican and promised religious freedom

The following year on the Feast of Fatima, May 13th, freedom of religion was made the law of Russia. And on the feast of the miracle of Fatima, Oct 13, Gorbachev received the Nobel Peace Prize

Two months later Gorbachev meet Pope in Vatican for 2ed time. In this meeting the Pope told him that he knew it was he that ordered the hit on the Pope. Gorbachev asked his forgiveness. (It is this story that Lucia was asked to keep silent about and nothing else.)

In 1991 (March 15) diplomatic relations with the Vatican and Russia were opened and so were Latin-rite churches for the first time.

May 1, 1991 was the 100 anniversary of Rerum Novarum, the encyclical "On the Condition of Human Labor by Pope Leo XII, and the Feast of St. Joseph, the Worker, and the end of May Day as a communist holiday.

On May 13, 1991 Pope John Paul II went to Fatima to thank Our Lady for all the countries that were freed, for saving his life, and for the end of the communist threat to the world.

But on Aug 19, 1991 the communists attempted to overthrow Gorbachev. They picked the wrong day for it was the 74th anniversary of the Aug appearance at Fatima. On Aug 22 the attempt failed and the communists were defeated. This was the feast of the Queenship of Mary.

Two months later, on Oct 13 (another feast of Fatima) the first pilgrims of Russia went to Fatima. It was Televised in 150 stations in Russia and 350 Radio stations in Russia, and again on Nov 7th it was televised again.

Dec 8th was the start of the Commonwealth of republics, The end of the USSR

12 days later Yeltsin met with the Pope in Rome

And 13 days after that (on Dec 25th, 1991) the Communist Flag came down for last time over Russia

Gorbachev resigned and sent a letter to Pope John Paul II

15 republics were freed from communism.

On Dec 30th, 1991 Lucia wrote that the world will recognize that the defeat of Communism was by Mary

In 1992 another attempt was made to overthrow the government and Yelson stood against the entire communist army and no one died.

On March 14, 1992 Pravda ended

Then on Christmas day, 1992 Communism was declared illegal in Russia

By 1996, Starting with People Power and Rosary in the Philippines, 87 dictatorships fell throughout the world.

From March 25, 1884 until March 25, 1984 is exactly 100 years. In 1884 Pope Saint Leo XII saw Christ give Satan power for 100 years. In 1984 Pope John Paul II Consecrated Russia and the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Communism fell, 87 other dictators fell.

What more do you want?
26 posted on 12/01/2010 8:37:39 PM PST by JPII Be Not Afraid
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To: pegleg
—This article is also posted here: www.godlikeproductions.com ..Except for the last few paragraphs, the articles are verbatim. Either you're the author and changed the last few paragraphs, or you plagiarized it.—

Last night I posted the article here first. It was held up by moderator review and I thought it was rejected when it didn't show up three hours latter, so I deleted some of the lines and posted at the other site instead.

Things begin to happen with Russia and what do you suppose the non-believers would say: “Those flipity flip flopping Catholics...fitting the Fatima Secret to world war II, then to 1981, and now to present day events with Russia.”

And they wont take it seriously out of ignorance.

That is why I'm getting the evidence straight now before it can be said that Fatima simply attaches itself to every event.

27 posted on 12/01/2010 8:53:29 PM PST by pf707
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To: pf707
That is why I'm getting the evidence straight now before it can be said that Fatima simply attaches itself to every event.

You are living in an alternate reality. Your whole premise is based upon the consecration of Russia not being carried out. Therefore, Russia is a threat to the Church. The consecration was performed and Russia is not a threat. As a matter of fact, about a year ago Moscow and the Vatican established full diplomatic relations. They are no longer the atheistic, church-persecuting nation they were about 20 years ago. Which coincidently, is about the time Lucia publicly stated the Consecration was completed.

If there is to be a persecution of the Church the more likely candidates are the crazy Muzzies or China. The Muzzies have no problem destroying churches and killing Catholics and China has driven the Church underground.

28 posted on 12/02/2010 8:02:54 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
The consecration has not been done as requested by the seer Lucia. It has to mention Russia and it has to be done in union with the bishops.

Pope Pius XII consecrated Russia in like 1950, BUT, not in union with the bishops. Pope JPII did it twice, but never specifically named Russia, nor did he do it in union with the bishops.

We have the record of the seer Lucia stating that the consecration by Pius XII was incomplete because he did not do it in union with the bishops AND YET HE SPECIFICALLY CONSECRATED RUSSIA. The only two things that could make anyone think that the JPII consecrations (WHICH LACK BOTH the union of the bishops in the consecration AND THE MENTION OF RUSSIA) were complete, would be ignorance of the past consecrations by Pius XII (which at least mentioned Russia) or that the people saying that the consecrations were done are enemies of the Church.

The consecrations have not been done, those that teach otherwise are either ignorant of the subject matter, or enemies of the Church, whether they are wolves in sheep's clothing (Catholic clergy) or wolves.

The errors of Russia are still there, and have spread all over the world: abortion, contraceptives, divorce, women behaving as men (not having children and competing for men's jobs), breakup of the family, children raised by the state, Immorality, fornication, adultery,pornography drugs & alcohol abuse, and sports/circus to keep the masses numbed. The USA is already poisoned by the errors of Russia, the USA is actually today the biggest promoter of the errors of Russia.

Our Blessed Mother came to warn us of errors of Russia pertaining to our ETERNAL SALVATION. If she had come to warn us of the earthly horrors of communism, it's mass starvation killings, concentration camps, firing squads and so forth, she would have warned us also of the Nazis, and every other despot since 1917.

I've read so many books on Fatima that it would make your head spin.

29 posted on 12/02/2010 12:39:25 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
The consecration has not been done as requested by the seer Lucia.

Yes it has.

Pope JPII did it twice, but never specifically named Russia, nor did he do it in union with the bishops.

From Sister Lucia’s letter to Father Fox on July 3rd, 1990

I come to answer your question, "If the consecration made by Pope John Paul II on March 25, 1984 in union with all the bishops of the world, accomplished the conditions for the consecration of Russia according to the request of Our Lady in Tuy on June 13 of 1929?" Yes, it was accomplished, and since then I have said that it was made.

The consecrations have not been done, those that teach otherwise are either ignorant of the subject matter, or enemies of the Church, whether they are wolves in sheep's clothing (Catholic clergy) or wolves.

Those who say the consecration wasn’t done are ignorant and enemies of the Church in addition to being conspiracy nuts.

The errors of Russia are still there, and have spread all over the world: abortion, contraceptives, divorce, women behaving as men (not having children and competing for men's jobs), breakup of the family, children raised by the state, Immorality, fornication, adultery,pornography drugs & alcohol abuse, and sports/circus to keep the masses numbed.

I could just as easily make the argument these are the errors of the Greeks or Romans. The errors of Russia were atheistic communism where the power of the state was restricted by no laws, hampered by no rules, and based directly on violence.

If you’re suggesting Russia is like this today you’re not paying attention.

Our Blessed Mother came to warn us of errors of Russia pertaining to our ETERNAL SALVATION. If she had come to warn us of the earthly horrors of communism, it's mass starvation killings, concentration camps, firing squads and so forth, she would have warned us also of the Nazis, and every other despot since 1917.

Says who?

I've read so many books on Fatima that it would make your head spin.

Am I supposed to be impressed?

30 posted on 12/02/2010 7:00:42 PM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid; Salvation
1980: Pope JPII stated at Fulda Germany that it is no longer possible to avert the chastisement:
"We must prepare ourselves to suffer great trials before long, such as will demand of us a disposition to give up even life, and a total dedication to Christ and for Christ … With your and my prayer it is possible to mitigate this tribulation, but it is no longer possible to avert it, because only thus can the Church be effectively renewed. How many times has the renewal of the Church sprung from blood! This time, too, it will not be otherwise. We must be strong and prepared, and trust in Christ and His Mother”
-The text released by the Vatican in June 2000 match's the above portion of the Pope's comments.

Dated Dec 8/1983, the Pope sends out a letter to the Bishops inviting them to join in the “Acts of Entrustment of the World to the Blessed Virgin Mary” for the following year. No Mention of Russia anywhere in the letter or Act. (pg. 125 of the Youngest Prophet, Christopher Rengers, 1986)

After the fall of communism....the conversion of Russia and time for God's peace to arrive?!?...:

From 1991 to 1995: Most horrific wars in Europe in Yugoslavia. The Yugoslavia wars were “often described as Europe's deadliest conflicts since World War II...the first conflicts since World War II to be formally judged genocidal in character.”(wikipedia quote)

1994: The apocalypse comes to Africa in Rwanda. Rivers of blood, be-headings, indiscriminate massacre of the innocent...an unimaginable 800,000 dead in 100 days. / 1998-2003: “Africa's World War” becomes the deadliest conflict in the world since world war II. Three million dead. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_World_War ).

No sign of God's peace to “be granted to the world” in the 90’s.

In January 1995: cloaking his warning in “Never again” declarations Pope JPII predicted that “tomorrow we must cry over other modern day Auschwitzes death camps” (he was not predicting the peace that would follow Russia's conversion but instead death camps for the future of mankind!) See link of image of newspaper clipping:
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8607/aushwtz2.jpg
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/no-headline-present-1.697635

1995/1996: During a time of Yugoslavia wars in Europe and a time of the Pope expecting a future fulfillment of the 3rd Secret the Vatican made plans for Priests to gather at Fatima the day after Russia's elections. (See page 221 of Crossing the Threshold of Hope for his expectations in 1995 that the Fatima prophecies “now...seems close to their fulfillment”)

Date of Russian elections: June 16/1996
Start date of the Gathering of Priests organized by the Vatican for Fatima Portugal: June 17/1996

the evidence of this:
http://servus.christusrex.org/www2/news-old/6-96/es6-18-96.html
“VATICAN CITY, JUN 18, 1996 (VIS) - The 1st International Meeting for Priests, organized by the Congregation for the Clergy in preparation for the Holy Year 2000, opened yesterday afternoon in Fatima, Portugal, with the reading of a message sent by the Holy Father. The Pope underlines the importance of this event to give impulse to the new evangelization, and invites priests to renew their personal consecration to the Heart of Jesus and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. As a sign of his closeness, John Paul II sent a rosary to each priest. Also read at the opening was a telegram sent by Sr. Lucia, the only survivor of the three little shepherds of Fatima to whom the Blessed Virgin appeared.”

http://servus.christusrex.org/www2/news-old/3-96/es3-21-96.html
“...The archbishop also said that beginning this year there would be meetings of the world's priests in preparation for the Jubilee 2000. In 1996 one will be held in Fatima June 17-21”

There are two interpretations of this gathering of priests in Fatima for the day after the Russian elections.

Interpretation one: It was a mere coincidence! But to suggest that the Vatican didn't pay attention to events in Russia when 1) the stark evidence I posted already in the OP is crystal clear (more so to the Pope) about the connection of Russia's errors to the Fatima Secrets. 2)Europe was rocked by the Yugoslavia wars which could have drawn Russia/NATO into a world war at any moment and 3) the fatima prophecies seemed “close to fulfillment” to the Pope in 1995;.....makes it all very ludicrous in my opinion, to believe the Vatican didn't know they were scheduling the Fatima event the day after the Russian elections.

Interpretation two: Fervor for the Third Secret had the Pope in it's clutches in 1994/1995/1996 with expectations months before the elections that Russia would be taken over by someone capable of igniting the great persecution(Someone Hitler like.) The Vatican therefore preplanned in advance by months, to have the priests of the world gathered at Fatima Portugal the day after the Russian elections. The purpose was simple: In a surreal moment immediately after the Communist or Russian Hitler won the June 16th elections, the Pope would go straight to Fatima where the gathering of priests was already prepared in place to then reveal the full text of the Third Secret of Fatima to the World. It would have been an epic start if the timing of the Russian Hitler was indeed fated for that election.

2000: Despite not consecrating Russia and not publishing the third secret beforehand, the Vatican is confounded by the inexplicable delay of the Secret’s breakout. Weary and sick of the waiting endured through the 1990’s they decide suddenly to forsake the "wait for the fulfillment" by designating the prophecies materialization to a date nineteen years earlier. It's easier on the flock that way.

1990-2010: still no clear sign of the world peace mentioned in the Fatima and La Salette prophecies.

2008-????: various signs begin to emerge. (No need to burden this thread or forum with THAT topic as it places the believing observer on an unpleasant roller coaster...if you know what I mean.) : (

The events: rise of Lenin and communism, night of light in 1938, consecration of the world, fall of communism, would serve as the shadows of starker things to come.

God confounded the Jews by having split the fulfillment of the prophecy of the coming of the Christ and his prophet Elijah into two separate events. With the Jews, it's difficult for them to accept the first coming of the two major stages of fulfillment. With Fatima, a difficulty lies in accepting the coming of the the second more critical period of fulfillment.

BOTTOM LINE: Lucia did not give reason to the Pope between 1984 and late 1990’s to believe the 1984 Consecration of the World prevented a future disaster for the church and the world.

31 posted on 12/02/2010 8:02:36 PM PST by pf707
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To: pegleg
re: Am I supposed to be impressed?

You don't have to be impressed, just knowthat you know nothing about Fatima. Looking up a quote from Fr. Fox any child can do. Fr. Fox has been shown for a fool by every Fatima expert.

re: Our Blessed Mother came to warn us of errors of Russia pertaining to our ETERNAL SALVATION. If she had come to warn us of the earthly horrors of communism, it's mass starvation killings, concentration camps, firing squads and so forth, she would have warned us also of the Nazis, and every other despot since 1917.

Says who?

If you didn't know this, you need to read, this is basic stuff.

re:The errors of Russia were atheistic communism where the power of the state was restricted by no laws, hampered by no rules, and based directly on violence.

Fatima is about internal salvation. Our life here on earth is nothing compared to eternity. Practically no one is saved today. You should not waste your time on FR. Go and read.

I'm out of here. I only came into FR for one second.

32 posted on 12/04/2010 6:09:37 PM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg
re: Am I supposed to be impressed?

You don't have to be impressed, just know that you know nothing about Fatima. Looking up a quote from Fr. Fox any child can do. Fr. Fox has been shown for a fool by every Fatima expert.

re: Our Blessed Mother came to warn us of errors of Russia pertaining to our ETERNAL SALVATION. If she had come to warn us of the earthly horrors of communism, it's mass starvation killings, concentration camps, firing squads and so forth, she would have warned us also of the Nazis, and every other despot since 1917.

Says who?

If you didn't know this, you need to read, this is basic stuff.

re: The errors of Russia were atheistic communism where the power of the state was restricted by no laws, hampered by no rules, and based directly on violence.

Fatima is about internal salvation. Our life here on earth is nothing compared to eternity. Practically no one is saved today, as a result of the spread of the SOUL KILLING errors of Russia. You should not waste your time on FR. Go and read.

I'm out of here. I only came into FR for one second.

33 posted on 12/04/2010 6:12:12 PM PST by verdugo
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To: JPII Be Not Afraid
re: You need to read reliable sources. Fatima Crusader is not a reliable source. By their fruits they shall be known. Father Gruner has disobeyed all church authority, and continues with his falsehoods.

Fr. Gruner has always been incardinated under a bishop. He is a valid Catholic priest. Your ad hominem attack is just that, and hollow. Besides for 100% of his material, Fr. Gruner just quotes tons of other sources. One does not have to even read anything Fr. Gruner writes to learn the truth about Fatima, there are countless other authorities, and all confirm 100% what Fr. Gruner says in the Fatima Crusader. Your “reliable sources” have been shown to be biased against Fatima, because the message throws a wrench into "ecumenism" with the Russian Orthodox and because the of the "reliable sources' (progressivists) fright of communists.

The message of Fatima goes directly against the false religion that is Russian Orthodoxy, and against the SOUL KILLING errors of Russia. The progressivists in the Catholic Church want nothing to do with Fatima, because they are cowards.

34 posted on 12/04/2010 6:34:56 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
You don't have to be impressed

I’m not

just know that you know nothing about Fatima.

If you say so

Looking up a quote from Fr. Fox any child can do.

Hit a nerve huh?

Fr. Fox has been shown for a fool by every Fatima expert.

Are you one of the experts?

Fatima is about internal salvation.

Ok, however, you totally dodged my point regarding the errors of Russia.

Our life here on earth is nothing compared to eternity.

Agreed

Practically no one is saved today.

How would you know?

You should not waste your time on FR.

You’re right, I don’t spend as much time here as I used to.

Go and read.

I do

I'm out of here. I only came into FR for one second.

I’m sensing you’re a bit hyper.

35 posted on 12/04/2010 7:14:04 PM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg

:)


36 posted on 12/04/2010 7:31:39 PM PST by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: pegleg

THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

1) Notwithstanding assurances that God did not create any man for Hell, and that He wishes all men to be saved, it remains equally true that few will be saved; that only few will go to Heaven; and that the greater part of mankind will be lost for ever. (St. John Neuman)

2) It is certain that few are saved. (St. Augustine)

3) The majority of men shall not see God. (St. Julian the Martyr)

4) Those who are saved are in the minority. ( St. Thomas Aquinas)

5) The greater part of men choose to be damned rather than to love almighty God. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

6) So vast a number of miserable souls perish, and so comparatively few are saved. (St. Philip Neri)

7) Among adults there are few saved because of the sins of the flesh....With exception of those who die in childhood, most men will be damned. (St. Remigius of Rheims)

8) Death bed conversions/repentance-there are hardly any: Out of 100,000 sinners who continue in sin until death, scarcely ONE will be saved. (St. Jerome)

9) The MAJORITY OF CATHOLICS GO TO HELL:

a) The greater number of Christians today are damned. The destiny of those dying on one day is that very few - not as many as ten - went straight to Heaven; many remained in Purgatory; and THOSE CAST INTO HELL WERE NUMEROUS AS SNOWFLAKES in mid-winter. (Bl. Anna Maria Taigi)

b) There are many who arrive at the faith, but few who are led to the heavenly kingdom. Behold how many are gathered here for today’s Feast-Day; we fill the church from wall to wall. Yet who knows how FEW they are who shall be numbered in that chosen company of the elect? (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

c) The Ark, which in the midst of the Flood was the symbol of the Church, was wide below and narrow above, .... It was wide where the animals were, narrow where men lived; for the Holy Church is indeed wide in number of those who are carnal minded, narrow in the number of those who are spiritual.
( Pope St. Gregory the Great)

d) Shall we all be saved? Shall we go to heaven? Alas, my children we do not know at all! But I tremble when I see so many souls lost these days. See, they fall into Hell as leaves fall from the trees at the approach of winter. (St. John Vianney)

10) MOST PRIESTS GO TO HELL:

a) I do not speak rashly, but how I feel and think. I do not think that many priests are saved, but that those who perish are more numerous. ( St. John Chrysostom)

b) Most priest are lost and few bishops are saved, not because of what they do, so much as what they fail to do. (St. John Chrysotom)

c) Many religious go to Hell because they do not keep their vows. (St. Vincent Ferrer)

11) CATHOLICS NOT ASPIRING AND NOT LIVING AS SAINTS WILL GO TO HELL:

a) They who are enlightened to walk in the way of perfection, and through lukewarmness wish to tread the ordinary paths, shall be abandoned. (Bl. Angela of Foligno)

b) They who are to be saved as Saints, and wish to be saved as imperfect souls, shall not be saved. (Pope St. Gregory the Great)

c) St. Teresa.... had she not risen from the state of lukewarmness in which she lived, she would in the end have lost the grace of God and been damned. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

12) How many inhabitants of this city may perhaps be saved? What I am about to say is very terrible, yet I will not conceal it from you. Out of this thickly populated city with it’s thousands of inhabitants, not 100 people will be saved. I even doubt whether there will be as many as that! ( St. John Chrysostom - the city was Antioch and its inhabitants were known to be in pursuit of comfort and the good things of things life.)

13) A multitude of souls fall into the depths of Hell. (St. Anthony Mary Claret - It has been revealed that on the day of the death of St. Bernard there also died 79,999 other people, and of this total of 80,000 who died, only St. Bernard and two other monks were saved. So out of 80,000 dead, 79,997 went to Hell! )

14) In the great deluge in the days of Noah, all mankind perished, eight persons alone being saved in the Ark. In our days a deluge, not of water, but sins, continually inundates the earth, and out of this deluge very few escape. Scarcely anyone is saved. ( St. Alphonsus Liguori)

15) If you only knew the women who will go to Hell because they did not bring into the world the children they should have given to it. ( St. John Vianney)

16) He who goes to Hell, goes of his own accord. Everyone who is damned, is damned because he wills his own damnation. (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

17) THOSE WHO HAVE HEARD NOTHING ABOUT THE FAITH CAN ALSO GO TO HELL:

a) When such unbelievers are damned, it is on account of other sins, which cannot be taken away without the faith, but not because of their sin of unbelief. (St. Thomas Aquinas)

d) No one is lost without knowing it, and no one is deceived without wanting to be. (St. Teresa of Avila)

18) OUTSIDE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, THERE IS NO SALVATION:

a) No matter how praiseworthy his actions might seem, he who is separated from the Catholic Church will never enjoy eternal life (Pope Gregory XVI)

b) O ye atheists who do not believe in God, what fools you are! But if you do believe there is a God, you must also believe there is a true religion. And if not the Roman Catholic, which is it? Perhaps that of the pagans who admit many gods, thus they deny them all. Perhaps that of Mohammed, a religion invented by an impostor and framed for beasts rather than humans. Perhaps that of the Jews who had the true faith at one time but, because they rejected their redeemer, lost their faith, their country, their everything. Perhaps that of the heretics who, separating themselves from our Church, have confused all revealed dogmas in such a way that the belief of one heretic is contrary to that of his neighbor. O holy faith! Enlighten all those poor blind creatures who run to eternal perdition! (St. Alphonsus Liguori)


37 posted on 12/05/2010 1:09:12 PM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg
For anyone that wants to know about Fatima, should read the 3 volume set by Frere Michel De La Sainte Trinite:

The Whole Truth About Fatima: Volume I Science and the Facts

The Whole Truth about Fatima, Volume II: The Secret and the Church

The Whole Truth about Fatima: Volume III: The Third Secret

38 posted on 12/05/2010 1:10:09 PM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg

re:I’m sensing you’re a bit hyper.

I’m a Catholic father of 5 children 8 and under, so far. Obviously, I have no time to waste on the internet.


39 posted on 12/05/2010 1:12:19 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
The three books are available to read on-line:

The Whole Truth About Fatima: Volume I Science and the Facts
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima1/

The Whole Truth about Fatima, Volume II: The Secret and the Church
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima2/

The Whole Truth about Fatima: Volume III: The Third Secret
http://www.catholicvoice.co.uk/fatima3/

40 posted on 12/05/2010 6:35:11 PM PST by pf707
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To: verdugo
You still continue to dodge my point regarding the errors of Russia.

Since the errors of Athiestic Communism are no longer an issue in Russia, you want to dismiss that and attribute some other error or errors to keep your conspiracy theory alive. The litany of sins you listed and then stated The errors of Russia are still there is ridiculous. Those sins did not originate in Russia and are not Russia’s errors.

The Consecration of Russia is complete. Time to move on.

THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

I do not subscribe to your fatalistic attitude. I’d prefer to follow the advice of St. Padre Pio

“Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer...Prayer is the best weapon we have; it is the key to God's heart. You must speak to Jesus with not only your lips but with your heart. In fact on certain occasions you should speak to Him only with your heart...”

For anyone that wants to know about Fatima, should read the 3 volume set by Frere Michel De La Sainte Trinite:

Just can’t let go can you? These writings were published in the 1980’s. In fact, there’s a disclaimer on the home page that states “ all references to the Third Secret in these volumes should be interpreted within this pre-revelational context.”

I’ll take the word of JPII and Pope Benedict XVI that the secret has been revealed and the Consecration to Russia is complete.

I’m a Catholic father of 5 children 8 and under, so far.

Wonderful! God Bless you and your family.

41 posted on 12/06/2010 6:06:03 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
re: You still continue to dodge my point regarding the errors of Russia. Since the errors of Atheistic Communism are no longer an issue in Russia, you want to dismiss that and attribute some other error or errors to keep your conspiracy theory alive.

I made it quite clear that the "errors of Russia", spoken by Our Blessed Mother to the seer Lucia, were spiritual, were about the eternal loss of souls. If you read the three volumes I recommended , you would know this. This is a basic Catholic mindset ("What does it profit a man to gain the world and loose his soul?"). I told point blank that you are dead wrong in your strictly earthly analysis.

Besides, YOUR "errors of Russia" analysis is wrong in the earthly sense too, since atheistic communism still exists in China, Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, and is quickly taking over South America at this moment, Bolivia, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Chile etc.

The whole foundation of your edifice of analysis is founded on the so-called "fall of communism" in Russia in the late 80's. From there you "weave it" into the INCOMPLETE consecration by JPII in 1984, in which he neither mentioned Russia, nor did it in union with the bishops.

AND YET: for 34 years before that "consecration" of the world, everyone knew from Lucia the seer of Fatima that consecration of Russia and the world done by Pius XII in the late 40's and early 50's (which at least mentioned Russia), were incomplete, not done as asked by the Blessed Mother. Now, since JPII's "consecrations" neither mentioned Russia nor were done in union with the bishops, in other words, they were EVEN LESS THAN WHAT PIUS XII HAD DONE, I ask you: what on earth would possess anyone to think that JPII's consecrations were satisfactory?

- The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery. Besides, if it isn't, then Lucia is either a schizophrenic or got Alzheimer's. FROM 1917 to 1984 for Lucia the consecration required the specific consecration of Russia by the pope in union with all the bishops. Then from 1984 forward it didn't require either? That letter is a forgery to discredit the message.

Where is the period of peace? Portugal was consecrated as asked by the Blessed Mother, and it had a period of peace of over 40 years, avoiding the savage Spanish Civil War (AT IT'S VER BORDER!)and all of WWII. After the consecration, Portuguese government miraculously turned from a masonic anti clerical to a great Catholic government. The last Catholic government on earth till it fell after Vatican II.

Where are the elimination of the errors of Russia, spiritual or earthly? Only a dreamer with his head in the sand or a useful idiot could think that both are gone.

By the way, in addition to being a father of 5, I am also a person who lost his country to communism and it still remains communist to this day. where is the fall of that earthly error of Russia?

I repeat again:

Pope Pius XII consecrated Russia in like 1950, BUT, not in union with the bishops. Pope JPII did it twice, but never specifically named Russia, nor did he do it in union with the bishops.

We have the record of the seer Lucia stating that the consecration by Pius XII was incomplete because he did not do it in union with the bishops AND YET HE SPECIFICALLY CONSECRATED RUSSIA. The only two things that could make anyone think that the JPII consecrations (WHICH LACK BOTH the union of the bishops in the consecration AND THE MENTION OF RUSSIA) were complete, would be ignorance of the past consecrations by Pius XII (which at least mentioned Russia) or that the people saying that the consecrations were done are enemies of the Church.

The consecrations have not been done, those that teach otherwise are either ignorant of the subject matter, or enemies of the Church, whether they are wolves in sheep's clothing (Catholic clergy) or wolves.

The errors of Russia are still there, and have spread all over the world: abortion, contraceptives, divorce, women behaving as men (not having children and competing for men's jobs), breakup of the family, children raised by the state, Immorality, fornication, adultery,pornography drugs & alcohol abuse, and sports/circus to keep the masses numbed. The USA is already poisoned by the errors of Russia, the USA is actually today the biggest promoter of the errors of Russia.

Our Blessed Mother came to warn us of errors of Russia pertaining to our ETERNAL SALVATION. If she had come to warn us of the earthly horrors of communism, it's mass starvation killings, concentration camps, firing squads and so forth, she would have warned us also of the Nazis, and every other despot since 1917.

42 posted on 12/06/2010 7:56:50 AM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg
re:

THE TEACHINGS OF THE FATHERS, DOCTORS AND SAINTS OF THE CHURCH UPON THE FINAL DESTINY OF MOST PEOPLE.

I do not subscribe to your fatalistic attitude. -------------------------------------------

Nothing fatalistic in what all those saints wrote. Those quotes span like 1900 years of Christianity. All the saints taught the same. By your reaction of calling all those saints (Catholic teaching for 2000 years)"fatalistic" , I gather that you must be a woman, brought up in the post Vatican II, happy face, sugar coated Catholicism, where people don't want to know anything related with death & suffering, and only want to have "pleasant thoughts".

I am a man, a warrior knight, not affraid of death, and I try to live by the teaching: "Remember the end of your life, and then you will never sin" (Wis. Sir. 7,36). "

Remember the end of your life, and then you will never sin. I shall not write again on FR.

God Bless,

43 posted on 12/06/2010 8:27:32 AM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery

Of course. All conspiracy theories need to have a forgery. Sorry, I’m not buying it.

I gather that you must be a woman

I gather you’re a male chauvinist who specializes in erroneous speculations. I’m a husband, father and grandfather

brought up in the post Vatican II, happy face, sugar coated Catholicism, where people don't want to know anything related with death & suffering, and only want to have "pleasant thoughts".

Is this one of your standard talking points or did you post this because you thought I was a woman?

I am a man, a warrior knight, not affraid of death, and I try to live by the teaching:

Same here.

I shall not write again on FR.

As you wish. Good day.

44 posted on 12/06/2010 9:03:07 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
re: The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery

Of course. All conspiracy theories need to have a forgery. Sorry, I’m not buying it.

Of course, you pick one out of like 15 proofs of why the consecration has not been done, and call EVERYTHING a "conspiracy theory". You are either creating a smoke screen or you choose to hide your head in the sand.

Despite of people like you, blind and ignorant of truth, or a wolf in sheep's clothing, despite people like you, the truth of Fatima continues. The SSPX recently sent a 2.3 million rosary bouquet in their request to Pope Benedict XVI to finally consecrate Russia as requested by Our Lady. There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII. Despite the cries of the enemies of the Church, Russia will one day be properly consecrated, there is nothing that the devil himself can do to stop it. The pope will one day consecrate Russia, and then THE WORLD will see what a real conversion, and a real period of peace are. Till then, if you so choose, you can remain with your head in the sand.

45 posted on 12/06/2010 10:41:00 AM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg
re: The letter from Lucia? It's been shown to be a forgery

Of course. All conspiracy theories need to have a forgery. Sorry, I’m not buying it.

Of course, you pick one out of like 15 proofs of my posted proofs of why the consecration has not been done, and call EVERYTHING a "conspiracy theory". You are either creating a smoke screen or you choose to hide your head in the sand.

Despite of people like you, blind and ignorant of truth, or a wolf in sheep's clothing, despite people like you, the truth of Fatima continues. The SSPX recently sent a 2.3 million rosary bouquet in their request to Pope Benedict XVI to finally consecrate Russia as requested by Our Lady. There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII. Despite the cries of the enemies of the Church, Russia will one day be properly consecrated, there is nothing that the devil himself can do to stop it. The pope will one day consecrate Russia, and then THE WORLD will see what a real conversion, and a real period of peace are. Till then, if you so choose, you can remain with your head in the sand.

46 posted on 12/06/2010 10:43:35 AM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg
re: I gather you’re a male chauvinist

"Male chauvinist", "conspiracy theories", "fatalist", ALL empty cliches of the TV brainwashed. Might as well ad homophobic, rigorists, triumphalist, and on and on. Open your eyes!!!!

re: brought up in the post Vatican II, happy face, sugar coated Catholicism, where people don't want to know anything related with death & suffering, and only want to have "pleasant thoughts".

Is this one of your standard talking points or did you post this because you thought I was a woman?

I wrote it becuase only a brainwashed "in the post Vatican II, happy face, sugar coated Catholicism, where people don't want to know anything related with death & suffering, and only want to have pleasant thoughts", would believe the writing on all those saints, representing 1900 years of Catholic teaching,is fatalist.

47 posted on 12/06/2010 11:08:04 AM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
Of course, you pick one out of like 15 proofs of why the consecration has not been done, and call EVERYTHING a "conspiracy theory".

Sorry, you’re under the mistaken impression I consider anything you posted as a proof. As I mentioned, I’m not buying it.

You are either creating a smoke screen or you choose to hide your head in the sand.

I believe you’ve got that backwards

Despite of people like you, blind and ignorant of truth, or a wolf in sheep's clothing, despite people like you, the truth of Fatima continues.

Yes, the truth of Fatima has been revealed and does continue. The secret was revealed and the Consecration took place as Our Lady instructed.

The SSPX recently sent a 2.3 million rosary bouquet in their request to Pope Benedict XVI to finally consecrate Russia as requested by Our Lady.

A bit late but it seems like a nice thing to do. They should have sent the rosary bouquet to Pope John II in 1984 thanking him for the consecration

There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII.

As I thought, you’re a Mel Gibson type Catholic. That explains your male chauvinism and short fuse.

Despite the cries of the enemies of the Church, Russia will one day be properly consecrated, there is nothing that the devil himself can do to stop it.

The devil did try to stop it and failed.

The pope will one day consecrate Russia, and then THE WORLD will see what a real conversion, and a real period of peace are.

It’s been done and the conversion will happen according to God’s timeline, not yours.

Till then, if you so choose, you can remain with your head in the sand.

Nah, I keep up with what’s going on. You however, can return to your bunker. I thought you weren’t going to write again on FR

48 posted on 12/06/2010 11:20:25 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
re:There is no traditionalist Catholic that believes the consecrations were done in 1984 by JPII.

As I thought, you’re a Mel Gibson type Catholic.

No, you don't think, you are prejudiced, you prejudge the message of Fatima into your own small nothing event, and you prejudge Traditionalists. You are nothing, but a cliche parrot, a small mind, with nothing to contribute to a discussion.

Now you label me as "a bunker living Mel Gibson Catholic". Whatever!

Traditionalist are the Catholics that go to frequent confession, don't use birth control, are not divorced and re-married. The traditionalist are the real Catholics, the people that go to the Latin mass, attended by diocene priests, the FSSP, Institute of Christ the King, Soc. of St John Vianney, AND the SSPX, and all independents, AND even the Sedevacantes ( I have nothing against them), who think the current popes are not popes. Numbered among the traditionalists, are all the people who still attend the Novus Ordo because they have no choice, or know no better. Traditionalists are ALL the Catholics who abhor communion in the hand, Eucharistic ministers, laity hugging kiss of peace, and all the other sacriligious and banal activity in the Novus Ordo world. All of those real Catholics do not believe Russia has been consecrated.

People like you blaspheme the message of Fatima by saying that what we have today is the period of peace and the conversion Russia. It's laughable that anyone can think that this, what we have today is the reason why Our Lord performed the Miracle of the Sun, and put Lucia through the ringer as her quest for 80 years. People like you should put your body where your mouth is and move to those "paradises of your conversion of Russia" like Cuba, Russia, or China, to name a few.

49 posted on 12/06/2010 7:36:05 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
You are nothing, but a cliche parrot, a small mind, with nothing to contribute to a discussion.

Feel better?

All of those real Catholics do not believe Russia has been consecrated.

If you say so

People like you blaspheme the message of Fatima by saying that what we have today is the period of peace and the conversion Russia.

Don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was “It’s been done and the conversion will happen according to God’s timeline, not yours.

It's laughable that anyone can think that this, what we have today is the reason why Our Lord performed the Miracle of the Sun, and put Lucia through the ringer as her quest for 80 years.

Did I mention you specialize in erroneous speculations?

People like you should put your body where your mouth is and move to those "paradises of your conversion of Russia" like Cuba, Russia, or China, to name a few.

People like you need to pay attention to detail and stop attributing comments to someone who didn’t make them. It would also be helpful if you would contemplate the advice given by St. Padre Pio before you blow a gasket.

50 posted on 12/07/2010 5:39:56 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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