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Third Secret of Fatima and Russia
November 30/2010

Posted on 11/30/2010 7:38:28 PM PST by pf707

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To: pegleg

re: People like you need to pay attention to detail and stop attributing comments to someone who didn’t make them. It would also be helpful if you would contemplate the advice given by St. Padre Pio before you blow a gasket.

The difference between you and I is that when you say something, I read it, and think on it. While you ignore completely whatever anyone writes, as your mind is already made up. If you had read the saints quotes that I sent you, you would realize that we are living in desperate times as most people are going to hell.

“Pray, hope, and don’t worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer...Prayer is the best weapon we have; it is the key to God’s heart. You must speak to Jesus with not only your lips but with your heart. In fact on certain occasions you should speak to Him only with your heart...” (Padre Pio)

What Padre Pio wrote has nothing to do with our discussion on Fatima. I’m not “worried”. You call the 1900 years of saints quotes “fatalistic”, and you quote Padre Pio as if he’s saying “don’t worry be happy”. Worry, in the sense that Padre Pio is saying, is called despair, which is a sin against hope. However, in the sense that you take it, “the saints were fatalistic” (you said it!), and for you we have to not let anything disturb our sleep through life (like the 1960’s hippies, “smoke a joint man, and it’’l pass, peace, man”.

Fatalism and despair are not occuring on my side, they have nothing to do with anything I write. If an atomic bomb was dropped on my head tomorrow, I could care less, God knows what is best for me, and if He so chooses to take me, so be it.


51 posted on 12/07/2010 7:17:57 AM PST by verdugo
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To: pegleg
re: People like you blaspheme the message of Fatima by saying that what we have today is the period of peace and the conversion Russia. It's laughable that anyone can think that this, what we have today is the reason why Our Lord performed the Miracle of the Sun, and put Lucia through the ringer as her quest for 80 years.

Don’t put words in my mouth. What I said was “It’s been done and the conversion will happen according to God’s time line, not yours.

The consecration has not been performed as requested by Our Lady. If Pius XII did not do it in 1948 by specifically mentioning Russia, then logically JPII did not do it by his not even mentioning Russia.

Read scripture about Gedeon (really read the whole thing, not just what I give you).

17 Judges 7:2 And the Lord said to Gedeon: The people that are with thee are many, and Madian shall not be delivered into their hands: lest Israel should glory against me, and say: I was delivered by my own strength.

Read Gedeon and you will understand how God works his miracles. God wants EVERYONE to know that a miracle has occurred. The conversion "happening over a long time line" (1984 to 2010++++) will not convince anyone that it was caused by a "consecration" in 1984. That is why He asked through the Blessed Mother that the consecration be done in union with all the bishops, and that the object of the consecration be ONLY Russia. The consecration must be in the open, that is why all the bishops. It will be controversial, for EVERYONE to likely ridicule. No one will be able to deny that it was done. No one then will be able to hide the connection with the miracle of the conversion, it will be instant, like Gedeon's victory. God did not waste the greatest miracle in the history of mankind, Fatima, for no one to notice.

52 posted on 12/07/2010 7:46:56 AM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
What Padre Pio wrote has nothing to do with our discussion on Fatima.

OK. So we can only use your quotes. Got it.

You call the 1900 years of saints quotes “fatalistic”,

There you go putting words in my mouth again. What I said was I do not subscribe to your fatalistic attitude.

and you quote Padre Pio as if he’s saying “don’t worry be happy”. Worry, in the sense that Padre Pio is saying, is called despair, which is a sin against hope.

There you go speculating again. I quoted Padre Pio in the sense If you remain in a state of grace and have an active prayer life, the troubles of the world wouldn’t worry you so much. As a matter of fact, if everybody took this advice to heart and acted on it, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. That is the difference betweeen my outlook and yours.

However, in the sense that you take it, “the saints were fatalistic” (you said it!),

You need to stop speculating, I did not say that, I said you were.

and for you we have to not let anything disturb our sleep through life (like the 1960’s hippies, “smoke a joint man, and it’’l pass, peace, man”.

Your mind reading skills are terrible

God wants EVERYONE to know that a miracle has occurred. The conversion "happening over a long time line" (1984 to 2010++++) will not convince anyone that it was caused by a "consecration" in 1984.

Is this an infallible pronouncement or just your opinion?

God did not waste the greatest miracle in the history of mankind, Fatima, for no one to notice.

I never said the miracle was wasted nor did I say no one will notice. God works in mysterious ways. You act as if you wrote the script.

53 posted on 12/07/2010 10:04:23 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg

Did you read Gedeon in scripture?


54 posted on 12/07/2010 2:59:08 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
Did you read Gedeon in scripture?

Yes. Fascinating story, read it last night. However , why do you think I don’t understand how God works his miracles? Or more to your point that God wants EVERYONE to know that a miracle has occurred.. The Miracle of the Sun was witnessed by thousands and widely reported in the press. That’s a pretty clear sign that God would provide a miracle "so that all may believe."

You think the consecration of Russia is going to provide another immediate miracle . You said, The conversion "happening over a long time line" (1984 to 2010++++) will not convince anyone that it was caused by a "consecration" in 1984.

It has already been pointed out on this thread that since the consecration in 1984 there have been a series of events that would confirm what Sr. Lucia wrote. The consecration has been accomplished and God will keep His word.

The errors of Russia will not go away overnight. As I mentioned, this will be accomplished in God’s time, not yours. As an example of God’s time I’ll point out the second apparition which took place on June 13, 1917

In the second apparition Lucia asked the Lady, "Will you take us to heaven?" The Virgin responded,

"Yes, I shall take Jacinta and Francisco soon, but you will remain a little longer, since Jesus wishes you to make me known and loved on earth. He wishes also for you to establish devotion in the world to my Immaculate Heart."

That “little longer“ turned out to be 88 years. You need to be more patient my friend. God is in control, not you.

55 posted on 12/08/2010 7:11:49 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
In the second apparition Lucia asked the Lady, "Will you take us to heaven?" The Virgin responded, "Yes, I shall take Jacinta and Francisco soon, but you will remain a little longer, since Jesus wishes you to make me known and loved on earth. He wishes also for you to establish devotion in the world to my Immaculate Heart." That “little longer“ turned out to be 88 years. You need to be more patient my friend. God is in control, not you.

You are changing Mary's words!! She did NOT say "little longer." Where did you fetch that quote?

Mary in fact responded with the words "Sim; a Jacinta e o Francisco levo-os em breve. Mas tu ficas cá mais algum tempo."(Yes. I will take Jacinta and Francisco soon. But you are to stay here some time longer.)

The Portuguese word "algum" does not translate to "little."

The word algum is used "to indicate an unspecified number or quantity" or "relatively many but unspecified in number"...see for yourself here at a Portuguese-English dictionary: http://lookwayup.com/lwu.exe/lwu/toEng?s=d&w=algum&slang=Por

56 posted on 12/08/2010 10:08:51 AM PST by pf707
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To: pf707
You are changing Mary's words!! She did NOT say "little longer." Where did you fetch that quote?

Scandalous! I got it here

Papal Visit to Fatima

57 posted on 12/08/2010 10:40:05 AM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg

If Pius XII did not do it right 1942 by his consecration of the world, nor in 1948 by his consecration of specifically Russia, then what on earth makes you think that JPII did by not not even mentioning Russia?


58 posted on 12/08/2010 12:10:12 PM PST by verdugo
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To: pf707

re:The errors of Russia will not go away overnight. As I mentioned, this will be accomplished in God’s time, not yours.

That’s your flawed personal opinion. and your example is also in eror. When Portugal was consecrated almost overnight there was a great Catholic spiritual uprising and God toppled the masonic socialist government, and the greatest Catholic leader of the 20th century was provided and sustained by God (he could have been assasinated by the Masons like Gabriel Garcia Moreno) for almost 50 years.


59 posted on 12/08/2010 12:19:24 PM PST by verdugo
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To: pf707

re:The errors of Russia will not go away overnight. As I mentioned, this will be accomplished in God’s time, not yours.

That’s your flawed personal opinion. and your example is also in eror. When Portugal was consecrated almost overnight there was a great Catholic spiritual uprising and God toppled the masonic socialist government, and the greatest Catholic leader of the 20th century was provided and sustained by God (he could have been assasinated by the Masons like Gabriel Garcia Moreno) for almost 50 years. Portugal was spared by God from the barbaric Spanish Civil War, and WWII!


60 posted on 12/08/2010 12:21:34 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
what on earth makes you think that JPII did by not even mentioning Russia?

I’ve been answering this question throughout the thread so here’s a brief recap:

1. Sister Lucia acknowledged this in a letter (The letter is not a forgery)

2. I’ll take the word of JPII and Pope Benedict XVI that the secret has been revealed and the Consecration to Russia is complete.

3. Since 1984 there have been a series of events that would confirm this

That’s your flawed personal opinion

Pardon me, I didn’t realize your opinions were infallible.

and your example is also in error.

Try this example.

2 Peter 3:8 “But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like one day.”

This thread is starting to go in circles so this will be my last post. You can have the last word since I know it will help you decompress. Good Day.

61 posted on 12/08/2010 12:43:12 PM PST by pegleg (Lies will seek you out, but the truth must be sought.)
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To: pegleg
If Pius XII did not do it right 1942 by his consecration of the world, nor in 1948 by his consecration of specifically Russia, then what on earth makes you think that JPII did by not not even mentioning Russia?

1. Sister Lucia acknowledged this in a letter (The letter is not a forgery)

We have her testimony that the consecrations of Pius XII were incomplete, yet Pius XII went firther than JPII by specifically mentioning Russia.

What happened that would make sister lucia change her stance of 34 years?

2. I’ll take the word of JPII and Pope Benedict XVI that... the Consecration to Russia is complete.

Where is JPII's word? He specifically said it has not been done:

"Two years later, this evasive approach was taken again when the Holy Father once more consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in a ceremony before 250,000 people in Rome in March of 1984. But this time, the Pope made his position clearer. In a departure from his prepared text, he asked Our Lady of Fatima to "enlighten especially the peoples of which You Yourself are awaiting our consecration and confiding." The Pope thus publicly acknowledged that the consecration requested by Our Lady had still not been performed. These words were included in an official report of the event in L’Osservatore Romano on March 26, 1984. A similar report appeared the next day in the Italian bishops’ newspaper Avvenire, describing the Pope praying in St. Peter’s several hours after the consecration ceremony, asking Our Lady to bless "those peoples for whom You Yourself are awaiting our act of consecration and entrusting."

62 posted on 12/08/2010 1:26:49 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
For those reading this thread I correct the dates:

If Pius XII did not do it right 1942 by his consecration of the world, nor in 1952 by his consecration of specifically Russia, then what on earth makes you think that JPII did by not not even mentioning Russia?

63 posted on 12/08/2010 1:30:31 PM PST by verdugo
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To: pf707

You joined FR just to post this?


64 posted on 12/08/2010 1:36:34 PM PST by Churchillspirit (9/11/01...NEVER FORGET.)
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To: pegleg
re: The Miracle of the Sun was witnessed by thousands and widely reported in the press. That’s a pretty clear sign that God would provide a miracle “so that all may believe.”

It was not widely reported in the press. It was hidden by the worlds press, except in Portugal. Few people knew about the Miracle at Fatima prior to the late 1940’s. It was estimated back in the 1980’s that about 1% of Catholics know about Fatima. Even today, scarcely anyone knows or cares about the consecration (you included), the ONLY REASON for the Apparition and Miracle of Fatima.

65 posted on 12/10/2010 8:25:00 AM PST by verdugo
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To: Churchillspirit; pf707
re: You joined FR just to post this?

The article is more than just "this". I've read the entire article and it is accurate in all details, after all, he is quoting other sources, all real and accurate. The article is very good, except the following two parts which are the writers own speculation. He does however honestly state that it is his own opinion:

"Mary told Lucia that Russia's "errors" will spread to every country of the world, but in the 1940's to 1990 pretty much every believer in the world including Sister Lucia herself, would have assumed that Russia's errors were equatable with communism. I would consider "Russia's errors" to be the tactics of a yet to arrive Russian Hitler that would rebuild the ego and glory of the Russian empire at the expense of the weak. These Russian errors could/would include such things as persecuting religious minorities at the behest of the majority, the blackmail of weaker nations, persecution of every kind of minority, declaring might as right/war to achieve all the needs of the state(attaining food, wealth, gas, slaves etc,) or something. Russia's tactics/errors that would spread to every country would be for egoism, diversion of attention, and ultimately to pacify the voting public during times of economic collapse, hunger, and chaos. The future Russia, possibly led by Vladimir Zhirinovsky, may echo some of the ways of the former communists, but it's behavior would be more extreme and frightening."

Sister Lucia always focused on the eternal loss of souls, due to the errors of Russia. The same goes for the conclusions of every authentic Fatima expert. After all, for a Catholic, the spiritual is always the most important. The spiritual is all we have to worry about, the loss of our eternal life. The earthly part, "the bombs", we have no control over, nor should we loose 1 minute of sleep over it, for it's despair, a sin, and not Catholic.

Releasing the WORDS of the Third Secret poses a significantly bigger threat to the Vatican's worldly interests. It's a bigger test of Faith. Not only does it's publication risk infuriating Russia, it risks making the Vatican lose substantial credibility if the dated prophecies seem to fail to materialize.

I don't understand what you mean by "if the dated prophecies seem to fail to materialize". The disclosure of the 3rd secret is now 50 years past due, it's a prophecy that's 50 years old! Revealing it now should reveal what has already happened.It should be "old news" now.

The noose seems to tighten even further around the Vatican's neck. Setting the stage for an extremely bad outcome when the moment of belief is finally reached. By having lied about the Third Secret in the year 2000, lied about Lucia's words in the year 2000, and lying in a book about the subject released in 2007(The Last Secret of Fatima-Cardinal Bertone)as the abhorrent sexual scandal in the Church reaches it's climactic point in the future--the Vatican would be compelled to finally release the suppressed words of the Third Secret once the events have arrived and there is no longer doubt...but in doing so, the Vatican will have revealed to the entire world that it lied to protect it's earthly interests over Fatima thus appearing to much of the world that it is equally guilty of lying to protect it's skin in the explosively shocking sex scandal near the top of the Church that would have revealed itself at that time.

I guess you are saying that the "sex scandal" was revealed in the real 3rd secret, which was to be revealed in 1960?

So...in order for the Pope to finally obey God and release the Third Secret, the cost in the end will be epic. It would be seen as a declaration of guilt over the future sex scandal, risking opening a floodgate of litigation that would impoverish the church coffers. It could doom someone very close to the Pope, Cardinal and friend, to prison. It would be seen as an abhorrent tactic to divert attention away from the sex scandal. It would be perceived as an abhorrent tactic to terrify everyone back to the Church at a desperate moment in time. It would bring down the wrath of Russia against the Vatican."

re: It would be perceived as an abhorrent tactic to terrify everyone back to the Church at a desperate moment in time. It would bring down the wrath of Russia against the Vatican

I don't see where proof of "hiding a scandal" would terrify anyone back to the Church, on the contrary, it would repel people from joining the Church. By the way, revealing the truth, would bring to light what the SSPX and traditionalists have been saying all along, that the progressives within the Church are wolves in sheep's clothing, enemies of the Church. Revealing the full 3rd Secret would expose the progressives, and force them to make a stand, and to attempt to take with them their followers to start a new church. Thus, it would not hurt the Catholic Church, but would reveal to everyone who in the that the post Vatican II hierarchy were the wolves in sheep's clothing.

66 posted on 12/10/2010 10:23:50 AM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo; pf707
I was puzzled by the fact that pf707 joined FR - a primarily political forum - last week and has posted only on this "Fatima" thread.
67 posted on 12/10/2010 1:09:33 PM PST by Churchillspirit (9/11/01...NEVER FORGET.)
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To: Churchillspirit

To those that believe, Fatima is “political”. If the pope consecrates Russia, the world will become a kind of utopia for a period of time (till man forgets history, and goes back to the gutter again).

All sides of “politics” today are run by the same crowd, and ultimately lead by Satan. The City of God is in eclipse right now. Till Russia is consecrated, everything will continue declining. “Politics” and the true religion work together. Without the true religion, the State can do what it pleases.


68 posted on 12/11/2010 9:36:16 AM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
For someone who has a bunch of kids and - in your own words - has no time to waste on the internet, you seem to spend a heck of a lot of time here pushing your catholic agenda.
69 posted on 12/11/2010 11:00:37 AM PST by Churchillspirit (9/11/01...NEVER FORGET.)
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To: Churchillspirit

re: you seem to spend a heck of a lot of time here pushing your catholic agenda.

I use to spend a lot more. Catholics from the time of Christ, the very beginnig of the Faith, have believed that all non-Catholics (and all Catholics who die with one unrepentant mortal sin), go to hell. I write to save souls.

If all religions were the same, and just a matter of tastes, I would not waste 1 second here.


70 posted on 12/11/2010 3:39:20 PM PST by verdugo
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To: verdugo
I don't understand what you mean by "if the dated prophecies seem to fail to materialize". The disclosure of the 3rd secret is now 50 years past due, it's a prophecy that's 50 years old! Revealing it now should reveal what has already happened.It should be "old news" now.

It is my understanding that war required to start near the end of last century serves as the unrealized beginning of predicted global misery to come. Upon future delvings, the matter should become clear when Russia shocks Europe with warplanes sent to destroy Kosovo's independence on behalf of the Serbs. It could have happened yesterday already, it could happen after perceptual or political changes in the relevant regions.

I guess you are saying that the "sex scandal" was revealed in the real 3rd secret, which was to be revealed in 1960?

The La Salette secrets speak about the bad behavior of priests and the vengeance at their doors. The Fatima secret probably repeats such warnings.

Pope John Paul II himself indicated the parallels between La Salette and Fatima. Father Alonso, an official archivist of the Fatima documents stated 30 or so years ago about the third Secret: "Does the unpublished text speak of concrete circumstances? It is very possible that it speaks not only of a real crisis of the faith in the Church during this in-between period, but like the secret of La Salette, for example, there are more concrete references to the internal struggles of Catholics or to the fall of priests and religious..."/((Note to anyone: be wary of English La Salette translations without examining the original French. There are critical differences between the two.))

The outbreak of the recent sex scandal coincided with Pope Benedict XVI's (possibly insincere) trip to Fatima indicating at first blush a connection between the two. He planned the trip before the outbreak arrived.

Another more recent development had displayed itself to anyone that was paying close attention to the right place and time that screams out direct connection between the Fatima prophecies and the sex scandal. However, I cannot prudently repeat the information over the internet for the simple reason that a single person or two could nefariously use such information to, at the proper time, attempt to forcefully fulfill a certain relatively easy to fulfill prophecy. I don't expect anyone to take my word for it, so people can ignore (especially!) this last paragraph.

I don't see where proof of "hiding a scandal" would terrify anyone back to the Church, on the contrary, it would repel people from joining the Church.

I guess my point is that that many people would get their excuse to continue to be hardened against Fatima by believing the Pope released a fabricated version of the 3rd secret for the express purpose of stopping people from leaving the Church over the big scandal and to terrify them and their wallets back to the pews and back to the Pope that has suddenly become the apocalyptic messenger of the Virgin Mary. I hope I'm wrong on this!!!!!!!! Unless Mary appears to the Pope in a vision and forces his hand, the release of the secret would undoubtedly occur at the early stage of fulfillment when the Pope can no longer deny the predicted events have arrived : a moment the world is desperately afraid of the new Russian Fuhrer being further provoked.

Many people would hate the Pope for resorting, over the sex scandal, to such heartless 16th century diversionary tactics that "preys on people's superstitions and deepest fears" at such a delicate moment in history. They would view it as the most unequaled self-serving, outrageous, and uncaring act...ever!

It is the type of scandalous situation that would boil up enough anger against the Pope that people would go to the large building housing the Pope and release their fury against him by hurling curses and throwing stones towards the crying Pope, in fulfillment of Jacinta's vision.

And yet the Pope would know the Fatima message is being fulfilled and is the Truth of God. In such a possible expected situation as described in this post, the Pope would "suffer" the pain of being unbelieved and being accused of a monstrous fabrication. Genuine regret of his role and the effects of the "lies" that damaged the perceived credibility of the third secret would be another source of suffering for him. The perception that he is lying about and guilty of allowing/knowing about the mega sex scandal would be yet another source of suffering. And that would be just the beginning as the Pope would have much to suffer.

Believers would recognize that to reveal the secret, the Pope risked everything: flesh, bone and home, credibility, embarrassment and possibly imprisonment....all out of the fear of God, fear for his soul, fear for the fate of mankind.

The Church goes underground in a time of persecution, lead by a transformed Pope that offers his life as a sacrifice to God.

Sorry for the speculation.

71 posted on 12/11/2010 5:19:35 PM PST by pf707
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To: Churchillspirit
I was puzzled by the fact that pf707 joined FR - a primarily political forum - last week and has posted only on this "Fatima" thread.

The archives at FreeRepubilc contain plenty of threads posted over the years regarding Fatima.

As to timing:

Before December I could reasonably state that Russia would NOT YET take surprise military action in a manner or location that means something extraordinarily relevant to prophecy, as I see it.

If I cared to post BEFORE the risk of materialization arrived, I could not wait another week.

For example, if interpreted signs and geopolitical landscapes suggested a certain something would occur within a four year period I would not want to wait until the second or third year to present such information for fear the events would occur in the first year and I would miss the chance to present the information beforehand.

To present the information after the fact is to invite the accusation that the Fatima secret is simply being force fitted to square with present day events for the unreasonable 3rd time, failing to recognize that the whole time it was primarily about those future current day events and not the secondary shadows manifested in the past.

In fact, I delayed posting such an article here, until the last moments before the perceived risky period arrived as I saw it.

Neither am I particular interested in whether others agree or disagree with my assessment of this upcoming period of risk involving Russia.

72 posted on 12/11/2010 9:48:17 PM PST by pf707
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