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MYTHS OF THE CRUSADES: Interview with Thomas Madden author of “A Concise History of the Crusades”
The Religion of Conquest ^ | 12/05/10 | Damon

Posted on 12/06/2010 7:04:54 AM PST by damonw

Thomas Madden is chair of the history department at St. Louis University and author of: “A Concise History of the Crusades”, In October 2004 Zenit, the International News Agency, interviewed him. Madden: The following are some of the most common myths and why they are wrong.

(Excerpt) Read more at thereligionofconquest.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Islam; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: crusademyths; crusades; historyofislam; islam; thecrusades; thomasfmadden; thomasmadden

1 posted on 12/06/2010 7:05:00 AM PST by damonw
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To: damonw
This is a favorite used to demonstrate the evil nature of the Crusades. It is certainly true that many people in Jerusalem were killed after the Crusaders captured the city. But this must be understood in historical context.

I hate it when descriptions of human blood flowing in streets, at some points up to a horse's brisket hitch are taken out of context. With this context stuff Richard could have been called the big pussy cat instead of the Lion Heart.

2 posted on 12/06/2010 7:22:37 AM PST by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it freedom has a flavor the protected will never know .F Trp 8th Cav)
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To: kbennkc

Myth 3 - I thought that it was pretty well documented that Richard took the inhabitants of Jerusalem out and systematically beheaded them all.


3 posted on 12/06/2010 7:39:54 AM PST by I am Richard Brandon
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To: I am Richard Brandon

That many were killed is not disputed. Rather the context as reinterpreted by modern people. As the author says:


Many were killed, yet many others were ransomed or allowed to go free. By modern standards this may seem brutal. Yet a medieval knight would point out that many more innocent men, women and children are killed in modern bombing warfare than could possibly be put to the sword in one or two days. It is worth noting that in those Muslim cities that surrendered to the Crusaders the people were left unmolested, retained their property and were allowed to worship freely. As for those streets of blood, no historian accepts them as anything other than a literary convention. Jerusalem is a big town. The amount of blood necessary to fill the streets to a continuous and running three-inch depth would require many more people than lived in the region, let alone the city.


4 posted on 12/06/2010 7:57:20 AM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: damonw

Bump for later.


5 posted on 12/06/2010 7:58:49 AM PST by skeeter
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To: damonw

Bump for later.


6 posted on 12/06/2010 7:58:56 AM PST by skeeter
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To: damonw

My favorite “ignored fact” is that Muslims attacked Christians for 400 years before Christians decided to retaliate.


7 posted on 12/06/2010 8:02:59 AM PST by G Larry (When you're right, avoid compromise!)
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To: damonw

More concise:

The Crusades were a counterattack.


8 posted on 12/06/2010 8:06:53 AM PST by Uncle Miltie (0bama thought he'd find "common ground" on 0bamaCare because of ROMNEYCARE!)
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To: damonw
I'm currently reading Rodney Stark's God's Battalions:

Excellent and highly recommended.

9 posted on 12/06/2010 8:10:41 AM PST by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: damonw

Bump for an excellent interview.


10 posted on 12/06/2010 8:13:15 AM PST by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: damonw

I read the article and much time is spent in the defense of the Pope. All of them down through the ages.
Other than that angle, it lumps the remainder of the men into one pot, even tho there were struggles in some european countries against the Pope.
I am sure not every crusader who went to war believed in works for salvation. I am sure many believed in faith in Jesus Christ. This is a very slanted catholic article.


11 posted on 12/06/2010 8:18:49 AM PST by Ramonne
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To: PIF
By modern standards this may seem brutal. Yet a medieval knight would point out that many more innocent men, women and children are killed in modern bombing warfare than could possibly be put to the sword in one or two days.

That is your defense for the Rape of Nanking? or do you see a difference between bombing losses, versus putting women and children to the bayonet, and the knife?

12 posted on 12/06/2010 8:22:03 AM PST by ansel12
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To: Cincinatus

Hi Cincinatus, You’ll probably like this post allot then. THANKS!!!

BOOK REVIEW and Q&A with Rodney Stark – author of “God’s Battalions: A Case for the Crusades”

http://thereligionofconquest.com/2010/12/03/book-review-and-qa-with-rodney-stark-author-of-god%e2%80%99s-battalions-a-case-for-the-crusades/


13 posted on 12/06/2010 8:40:15 AM PST by damonw
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To: damonw

Many thanks for the link. Stark has written several good books on the history of Christianity — all well worth the time.


14 posted on 12/06/2010 8:49:43 AM PST by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: I am Richard Brandon

Hi Richard, I’m still learning. Can you provide links to support your claim? THANKS


15 posted on 12/06/2010 8:50:19 AM PST by damonw
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To: Ramonne

Hi Ramone, the way I understand it is that the time frame we are talking about there was no protestant church, printing press and English bible at that time. So it is likely that most did not believe in Justification by faith. Don’cha think?


16 posted on 12/06/2010 8:54:06 AM PST by damonw
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To: Cincinatus

Your Welcome Very Much,, HAVE A BLESSED DAY


17 posted on 12/06/2010 8:57:30 AM PST by damonw
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To: ansel12
do you see a difference between bombing losses, versus putting women and children to the bayonet, and the knife?

If the bombing "losses" are intended or expected, then what is the difference, morally?

18 posted on 12/06/2010 9:05:44 AM PST by mas cerveza por favor
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To: damonw; kbennkc; PIF; G Larry; Uncle Miltie

I like to say the Crusades were a feeble 86 year interruption to over a millennium of Islamic conquests. We are never informed about the brutality of these operations, but instead you would think four Geneva Conventions that were written at the end of WW II were actually found by unearthing an appendix to the Code of Hammurabi.


19 posted on 12/06/2010 9:17:39 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: mas cerveza por favor

Penetrating deep into an enemy’s homeland to destroy targets and being forced to do it from the air, which results in collateral damage, is bad enough, but once you arrive there and then to slaughter them by hand, individually, is an entirely different thing.

I know that our GIs will bomb, and use artillery, but I don’t think that they will go in, root out the families from their homes and put them all to the sword, once we have taken the city.


20 posted on 12/06/2010 9:18:26 AM PST by ansel12
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To: damonw; PIF
As I understand it, when Jerusalem surrendered, two of the conditions were the payment of 200,000 pieces of gold and the "restoration of the holy cross." When the money wasn't paid, 2,700 captives were slaughtered.

This is from Benedict of Peterborough edited by W Stubbs in 1867 vol ii, p 189, ibn-Shaddad, pp 164-5; all as quoted by Philip K. Hitti in "History of the Arabs" revised 10th edition, page 651 published by palgrave macmillan.

21 posted on 12/06/2010 9:18:42 AM PST by I am Richard Brandon
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To: I am Richard Brandon

THANK YOU Richard, I’ll take a looksy :)


22 posted on 12/06/2010 9:25:41 AM PST by damonw
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To: Ramonne
I am sure not every crusader who went to war believed in works for salvation. I am sure many believed in faith in Jesus Christ. This is a very slanted catholic article.

Um, the Crusades took place in the Middle Ages -- the Catholic Church was Christianity in Western Europe, the Eastern Orthodox in Eastern Europe. No one then would have imagined anyone would see a conflict or opposition between works and faith.

23 posted on 12/06/2010 9:46:18 AM PST by maryz
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To: Ramonne

You wrote:

“I am sure not every crusader who went to war believed in works for salvation. I am sure many believed in faith in Jesus Christ.”

Actually I am pretty sure that every crusader who went on crusade believed in salvation by grace alone - just as the Catholic Church taught.


24 posted on 12/06/2010 10:45:43 AM PST by vladimir998 (The anti-Catholic will now evade or lie. Watch.)
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To: ansel12

That was a quote from the article. Don’t you get it? Things were different 1000 years ago...


25 posted on 12/06/2010 2:26:40 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: Retain Mike

Geneva Conventions that were written at the end of WW II were actually found by unearthing an appendix to the Code of Hammurabi.


Geneva Conventions appendix goes back to the Uruk period in Sumeria 5000 BC actually... (There is some indicatrion that the Sumerians plagerized them from the Atlantians). Every one knows that Crusaders were well of the Sumerian Code, appendix, Conventions, Geneva.


26 posted on 12/06/2010 2:36:24 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: I am Richard Brandon

When the money wasn’t paid, 2,700 captives were slaughtered.


Life was tough in those days...


27 posted on 12/06/2010 2:38:11 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine .. now it is your turn..)
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To: PIF

You definitely should be teaching college!


28 posted on 12/06/2010 3:00:15 PM PST by Retain Mike
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To: PIF
Things were different 1000 years ago...

I was dealing with the comparison between aerial bombing and killing civilians in masse, deliberately, by hand, after a city is taken.

29 posted on 12/06/2010 3:16:38 PM PST by ansel12
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To: PIF

According to some reports, the king was there to view the fun! What’s not to like?


30 posted on 12/06/2010 6:02:03 PM PST by I am Richard Brandon
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