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The Mormon Wealth Attribution
Wheat and Tares.org ^ | Oct. 27, 2010 | Troth Everyman

Posted on 12/06/2010 8:12:02 PM PST by Colofornian

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To: Reeses
So...I guess by your comments you are an admirer of LDS, Inc.

They are totally successful....money wise.

Do you indeed admire them?

51 posted on 12/08/2010 12:48:58 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Reeses
Attacked in print, and physically by mobs, some 30,000 were forced to flee their dream city of Nauvoo, Ill., in 1846.

Those poor, poor souls!

Bearly able to survive by whatever means for umpteen days...

What?

You say this does not SOUND exactly right?

You imply it's been REVISED or FRESTORED???

 

Well; just WHOSE 'history' book can you BELIEVE?

 



 

 

(From Wiki -->  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo,_Illinois )
 
 
 
 
 In late 1839 arriving Mormons bought the small town of Commerce and in April 1840 it was renamed Nauvoo[2] by Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement. The name Nauvoo is derived from the traditional Hebrew language with an anglicized spelling. The word comes from Isaiah 52:7, “How beautiful upon the mountains...” It is notable that “by 1844 Nauvoo's population had swollen to 12,000, rivaling the size of Chicago” at the time.[3][4]
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In October 1841, a Masonic Lodge was established in Nauvoo in the building currently referred to as the Cultural Hall. George Miller, one of the church's bishops, was made its "Worshipful Master" or leader. The lodge admitted far more members than was normal in Masonic practice and quickly elevated church leaders to high roles. This was the most significant time in which the Latter Day Saints were involved in Masonry.

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After Smith's death, the agitation against Mormons continued. The conflict escalated into what has sometimes been called the "Mormon War in Illinois." Opponents of the Mormons in Warsaw and Carthage began to agitate for the expulsion from Illinois of the Latter Day Saints. In October 1844, a great gathering was announced in Warsaw. Although it was purported to be a "wolf hunt," it was known that the "wolves" to be hunted were the Mormons. When Governor Thomas Ford became aware of it, he sent militia troops to disperse the gathering. However, as he later recalled:
"The malcontents abandoned their design, and all the leaders of it fled to Missouri. The Carthage Greys fled almost in a body, carrying their arms along with them. During our stay in the county the anti-Mormons thronged into the camp and conversed freely with the men, who were fast infected with their prejudices, and it was impossible to get any of the officers to aid in expelling them".[13]

Vigilante bands continued to roam the county, forcing Latter Day Saints in outlying areas to abandon their homes and gather to Nauvoo for protection.

When the Illinois state legislature met in December 1844, there was great support for the repeal of the Nauvoo Charter. Governor Ford conceded that the charter's privileges had been "much abused" by the Mormons, but he urged that the legislature merely amend the document, saying "I do not see how ten or twelve thousand people can do well in a city without some chartered privileges".[14] However, on January 29, 1845, the repeal was overwhelmingly passed by a vote of 25-14 in the Senate and 75-31 in the House.

After its legal disincorporation, Nauvoo government and civil institutions were legally dissolved and the church administrative structure operated as a default government. This more theocratic organization was known informally by its residents as the "City of Joseph" while disincorporated. After a succession crisis, Brigham Young gained support from the majority of church members and so controlled Nauvoo. Informal security procedures were established, including what were known as "whittling and whistling brigades." These were made up of Mormon men and boys who "whistled" while "whittling" with large knives held close to any suspicious strangers who entered Nauvoo. According to one witness:

"The process of whittling out an officer was as follows: A great tall man by the name of Hosea Stout was the captain of the Whittling society, and he had about a dozen assistants. They all had great bowie knives and would get a long piece of pine board and get up close to the officer and pretend to be cutting the pine board, but would cut over it and cut near the officer. In the meantime, small boys would get tin pans, old bells and all sorts of things to make a noise with and surround the officer. No one would touch or say a word to him, but the noise drowned all that he would say".[15]

Nauvoo's population peaked at about this time in 1845; it may have had as many as 12,000 inhabitants (and several nearly as large suburbs) — rivaling Chicago, whose 1845 population was about 15,000.

By the end of 1845 it became clear that no peace was possible between LDS church members and antagonized locals. Mormon leaders negotiated a truce so that the Latter Day Saints could prepare to abandon the city. The winter of 1845-46 saw the enormous preparations for the Mormon Exodus via the Mormon Trail. In early 1846, the majority of the Latter Day Saints left the city. After the departure of the Mormons, the temple stood until destroyed by arsonists on November 19, 1848.

 


52 posted on 12/08/2010 1:04:29 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Elsie; Tennessee Nana; metmom; Godzilla; SZonian; Colofornian; colorcountry; Sentinal; ...
"The process of whittling out an officer was as follows: A great tall man by the name of Hosea Stout was the captain of the Whittling society, and he had about a dozen assistants. They all had great bowie knives and would get a long piece of pine board and get up close to the officer and pretend to be cutting the pine board, but would cut over it and cut near the officer. In the meantime, small boys would get tin pans, old bells and all sorts of things to make a noise with and surround the officer. No one would touch or say a word to him, but the noise drowned all that he would say".[15]

Welcome to FreeRepublic!

53 posted on 12/08/2010 1:09:14 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Osage Orange
They are totally successful....money wise.

That's an envious statement more typical of leftists. Mormons are successful on more metrics than that: high marriage rates, low divorce rates, number of children, low crime rates, convervative family values, education, low unemployment, stockpiling for emergencies, charity. They value success and unlike Jews do not appease enviers. If I could become religious, I'd consider becoming a Mormon because their values, politics, and dreams are close to mine.

54 posted on 12/08/2010 1:20:25 PM PST by Reeses
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To: Reeses
Envious? Nope.

Fact? Yes.

And I'm talking about LDS, Inc....Apparently you don't understand the difference....between the rank and file..and LDS, Inc.

fwiw-

55 posted on 12/08/2010 1:23:54 PM PST by Osage Orange (MOLON LABE)
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To: Osage Orange
LDS, Inc.

It does resemble a franchise operation, invented by Roman Catholic, Inc., the richest church in the world and now the favorite religious target of leftist envy.

56 posted on 12/08/2010 1:35:35 PM PST by Reeses
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To: Elsie
Photobucket

Small boys making noise placemaker.

57 posted on 12/08/2010 4:36:33 PM PST by greyfoxx39 ("People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them." Eric Hoffer)
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To: greyfoxx39
further research at PEW voter stats indicate that in 2004/2008 in spite of "ideology" Evangelicals actually voted more conservatively than mormons. As to your definition of "success"....not surprising that education and income are your bellwethers.

2008 CNN Exit Polls have Mormons voting 78% McCain, 19% Obama, which includes all Mormons, not just weekly attending. Your chart has Mormons mixed in with Orthodox and other Christians, and Evangelicals broken out between weekly attending and not which averages out less than Mormons for McCain. Voting for McCain is hardly a test of conservative credentials.

Mormon's success is also high marriage rates, low divorce, many children, more education, less crime, more charity, less dual income latch key kids, and many other metrics. It's clear Mormons are very conservative politically and they shouldn't be attacked leftist style on a conservative political website.

The Book of Mormon narrative is unbelievable to many people including myself, but so is the narrative to other religions. It takes a gift of faith to believe in any of them.

58 posted on 12/08/2010 6:20:55 PM PST by Reeses
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To: Reeses
You left out white collar crime, Prozac® sales, and Jello© consumption!
59 posted on 12/09/2010 6:44:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Reeses
If I could become religious, I'd consider becoming a Mormon because their values, politics, and dreams are close to mine.



 

FREE KITTENS

A pretty little girl named Suzy was standing on the sidewalk in front of her home in Salt Lake City. Next to her was a basket containing a number of tiny creatures; in her hand was a sign announcing FREE KITTENS.

Suddenly a line of big black cars pulled up beside her. Out of the lead car stepped a tall, grinning man.

"Hi there little girl, I'm President Thomas Monson. What do you have in the basket?" he asked.

"Kittens," little Suzy said.

"How old are they?" asked Monson.

Suzy replied, "They're so young, their eyes aren't even open yet."

"And what kind of kittens are they?"

"Mormons," answered Suzy with a smile.

Thompson was delighted. As soon as he returned to his car, he called his PR chief and told him about the little girl and the kittens.

Recognizing the perfect photo op, the two men agreed that the president should return the next day; and in front of the assembled media, have the girl talk about her discerning kittens.

So the next day, Suzy was again standing on the sidewalk with her basket of "FREE KITTENS," when another motorcade pulled up, this time followed by vans from Deseret News, The Ensign magazine and KSL.

Cameras and audio equipment were quickly set up, then Thompson got out of his limo and walked over to little Suzy.

"Hello, again," he said, "I'd love it if you would tell all my friends out there what kind of kittens you're giving away."

"Yes sir," Suzy said. "They're Christians."

Taken by surprise, the Living Prophet® stammered, "But... but... yesterday, you told me they were MORMONS."

Little Suzy smiled and said, "I know. But today, they have their eyes open"

 


60 posted on 12/09/2010 6:52:44 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Elsie

Even if it’s spreading the truth, gossip is motivated by envy. It’s a passive-aggressive form of hate favored by women. It’s intent is to destroy and it is effective towards that evil goal, just like leftism.


61 posted on 12/09/2010 7:15:25 AM PST by Reeses
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To: Reeses; greyfoxx39; Osage Orange; Elsie; delacoert; svcw; aMorePerfectUnion
Reeses, what are you, some kind of statistical propagandist?

Let's take your claims & start measuring them vs. reality:

Mormon's success is also high marriage rates...

I looked a few years back and was frankly surprised to see that despite Utah having the lowest median age in the country, it only ranked #17 among states re: those who were married. (Barely ahead of Florida, Nebraska & Oregon)

So why (at that time...not sure how the stats have changed in the last 2 years) were 29% of men in Utah single? [Along with 22.3% of women?] All in a culture where marriage is HEAVILY stressed!

Even a BYU student-journalist noted this trend in a January 2010 BYU Daily Universe article Sister missionaries and the aging single population -- where Chelsea Warren noted:

...fewer BYU students are getting married during their college years than ever before. According to the Y Facts University Marriage Statistics page, the percentage of married students at BYU has steadily declined from 29 percent in 1992 to 25 percent in 2009. While a 4-percent drop may not seem like much, it reflects a national trend of the aging single population.

This is rather significant. Why? Because LDS teach that marriage itself is a "law" to be obeyed if one wants to progress to godhood.

...less crime...

(Well, ONLY if you want to ignore both white-collar crime and sexual and domestic violence in Utah).

Utah's sexual violence:

#1 ”Utah's rate of rape against women is about 10 percent higher than the national average, according to the department.” Source: Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average

Sidebar to article mentions: » In 2008, Utah's rate of rape was 63.7 for every 100,000 females; the U.S. average is 57.4. » Reported rapes decreased in Utah about 10 percent during the 10 years ending in 2008. » Carbon, Salt Lake, Tooele, Uintah and Weber counties had higher rates of rape than the state rate between 2002 and 2008. Source: Utah Department of Health, Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification

#2 This wasn't some “new surge”: Since 1991, Utah’s rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html ]

Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently has ranked between 14 & 18 re: rape rate? Why as of 4 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?

#3 There's something about Utah itself: The Salt Lake Tribune reported Fall 2009 that in 2005, Utah ranked 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses... Source: Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools

Domestic violence:

The U.S. Department of Justice reported (Fall 2001) ”that national domestic violence rates decreased 41 percent since 1993. But Utah officials reported a 31 percent increase in state domestic violence between 1997 and 2000. With those climbing numbers, Utah in 2001 had the second highest domestic violence rate in the nation.” Source url: http://byumedia.com/story.cfm/34616

Utah's White-Collar crime reputation:

(The second note below shows this problem is endemic & specific to the Mormon church):
* ”Frustrated by the wave of fraud that by one estimate took $750 million out of Utahns' pocketbooks last year, regulators, law enforcement officials and attorneys are organizing a free 'Fraud College' next month in Utah County for the public to call attention to the problem and to try to combat it.” Source: Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS Church skips fraud-prevention event
* Lds members have fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
Source: Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud
* This isn't new...Utah has long been host to the most per-capita fraud in America: Salt Lake City, with a mere 170,000 residents, is by far the country’s smallest city where the scam-fighting U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission has an office. It has been there since the early 1950s. Why? “There is a lot of fraud here per capita,” says local SEC boss Kenneth Israel. “There doesn’t seem to be any shortage of work for us.” [Source url: http://www.lds-mormon.com/6303056a.shtml ]
* Utah was #1 in mortgage fraud in America by 2001 when the FBI listed Utah as No. 1 in the country for the amount of mortgage fraud cases reported. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html ]

...and many other metrics.

(Oh, like depression and suicide?)

* See Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah

* See Utah leads the nation in rates of depression

* See where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls:
http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml ]

* ”Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse.” Source: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem

* Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate — 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people — in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology.” Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore

* Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned ‘Facing East,’ now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach. Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts

* ”For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html

Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest:

In addition, per this article – the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.

So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!

My point: Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!

It's clear Mormons are very conservative politically and they shouldn't be attacked leftist style on a conservative political website.

Actually, it's clear you've flunked your Utah sociological homework. And therefore you need to apologize to posters you've falsely accused due to your data blinders!

62 posted on 12/12/2010 2:38:48 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Reeses
Even if it’s spreading the truth, gossip is motivated by envy.

wait what

So, exactly WHAT would you call this?

Link

As of December 31, 2009, there were 51,736 LDS missionaries were serving in 344 church missions throughout the world.


63 posted on 12/12/2010 8:33:36 AM PST by greyfoxx39
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To: Colofornian
what are you, some kind of statistical propagandist?

You've carefully cherry picked negative data. Mormons are conservatives. What is your motivation for demonizing them like leftists do? Are they a competitive threat to your religion?

64 posted on 12/12/2010 8:59:37 AM PST by Reeses
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To: Reeses
You've carefully cherry picked negative data.

You're funny. Here my point is how incomplete of a social eval you've given Mormons, & what do you accuse me of -- "cherrypicking?"

You're the one who defined the "boundaries" in your comment! You're the one who mentioned marriage & crime rates & wide-open "other metrics," not me!

You're like a prosecuting attorney who doesn't want the conversation to go in a certain direction. Yet your very comments about a subject open the door to that subject. And when the defense attorney now discusses the very subject you brought up, you scream, "Objection! Your honor. Objection!"

Which means by sheer obviousness that you still now wish to carefully, cherrypick-fully, navigate around whatever crime & other metrics that don't measure up to your cardboard cut-out spin presentation.

The very thing you accuse me of -- you are guilty of! You want to ignore reality because it doesn't measure up to this cardboard cut-out image of what you want to present about Mormons!

Facts are stubborn things, my friend!

Mormons are conservatives.

Is being on the leading cutting-edge of white-collar crime a "conservative" trait? How about affinity-based fraud, rampant at epidemic levels within the Mormon church? Is that also a "conservative" trait?

Utilizing depressants? Another "conservative" trait?

And even if we were to discuss the social realties of say, conservative Christians in other regions of the country, does your cookie-cutter limitations consistently keep you from ever mentioning any negatives about people groups?

Aren't you guilty of suppressing reality? Doesn't the Bible discuss in a highly negative way those who suppress the truth? (Romans 1, for example)

And do Mormons "conserve" the number of gods they embrace?

They have a "mom" god...
...They believe their "god" had a "god."
...They believe a "council of gods" selected their "god" to become a "god."
...They believe Jesus & the Holy Ghost are separate "gods."
...Temple Mormons believe they can become "gods."

You wanna tell me that thinking you'll become a "god" is a "conservative" trait? Really?! (From what planet did you arrive?) Or that hundreds, thousands, or millions/billions of gods exist...that, too, represents conservative heartland America? Really?

65 posted on 12/12/2010 9:43:44 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
Utilizing depressants? Another "conservative" trait?

Being not depressed is a conservative value. Coffee has an anti-depressant effect. Since Mormons don't drink coffee that might explain the increased demand.

Bashing Mormon conservatives is clearly your hobby. I wish you could channel some of that energy into bashing leftism, a much more serious evil.

66 posted on 12/12/2010 2:10:38 PM PST by Reeses
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To: greyfoxx39
Even if it’s spreading the truth, gossip is motivated by envy.

I didn't mean that kind of "spreading the truth". Gossipers sometimes use truth as a defense. Gossip is driven by envy, the same thing that drives leftism.

67 posted on 12/12/2010 2:18:24 PM PST by Reeses
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To: Reeses
I didn't mean that kind of "spreading the truth". Gossipers sometimes use truth as a defense. Gossip is driven by envy, the same thing that drives leftism.

Well, you are entitled to your definition of "truth"...we see the 52,000 mormon missionaries as being out there spreading falsehoods and given the diatribes made against Christians by mormon leaders up until McConkie, as spreading vicious gossip about no church except mormonism being true.

68 posted on 12/12/2010 2:43:56 PM PST by greyfoxx39
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To: Reeses
Bashing Mormon conservatives is clearly your hobby. I wish you could channel some of that energy into bashing leftism, a much more serious evil.

Don't we take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ? Who are we to follow when it comes to setting cultural priorities? Jesus and the apostle Paul? or a FREEPER posted named Reeses?

Here's Jesus:

"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)

So does Jesus say, "fear the 'leftists'?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.

As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:

"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)

Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)

Tell me something, Reeses: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"

I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to your guesswork based upon your self-professed bashing those willing to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints (Jude 3)

Being not depressed is a conservative value.

(What a twister you are! If Utah leads the nation in the use of anti-depressants, does that in your opinion mean Utah is the leading non-depressive state? To hear you twist it, it is! Wow! Utterly wow!)

Your constant distortions is a real danger to truth.

When sociological data is favorable for you to cite it, that's OK. But if somebody dares challenges your pre-conclusions, look out! You vie for suppressing such realities.

You may not be Mormon, but the same author behind Joseph Smith is written all over you. Smith used the printing press to his religious huckster advantage. Yet, when former Mormons dared to print one publication -- the Nauvoo Expositor -- "Mayor" Smith sent his mobocrats (200 of them) to go & destroy the printing press. That same spirit of suppression is expressed by you).

69 posted on 12/12/2010 2:57:09 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: greyfoxx39; Reeses
. . . . as spreading vicious gossip about no church except mormonism being true.

Perhaps dear reeses can show that mormonism DOESN'T teach that mormonism is the only TRUE church. Perhaps reeses can provide some proofs to his assertions of 'gossip'. It would be challenging to see an intelligent line of reasoning and not this nonsense.

70 posted on 12/12/2010 2:58:22 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Reeses; greyfoxx39; Godzilla
Gossip is driven by envy, the same thing that drives leftism.

So, you not only have some "evilmeter" detector (your comment in post #24: "...the Mormons in general do not seem evil to me")...but you can also detect/gauge all internal motives in some absolute way?

(You are somethin' else, Reeses)

Your subjective comments somehow become established as absolutes ("and don't confuse with any opposing facts," your tone offers up).

Think of what the TSA could do with your "evilmeter" and "internal motive" detectors, Reeses! Isn't it 'bout time you patent those for the world to use?

Or is it just possible that 1 Samuel 16:7 applies to you as well-- in that ONLY GOD can see the inside heart of a person...whereas the rest of us tend to judge what's on the outside?

Have you ever thought about how your latest subjective "absolute" ("Gossip is driven by envy...") might not be applicable to all people?

What? You mean you can't come up with any other reasons why a person might gossip?

What about nosiness? Busybodies? Are they always absolutely envious?

What about malice? Aren't there some malicious who could care less about being "envious" of somebody else -- but merely want to ruin somebody else's reputation?

And then what about the kind of "gossip" you mentioned -- the kind that is true. Couldn't their motivation be that they dislike secrets that are hurting other people?

I could think of LOTS of reasons why somebody might "gossip" the truth...that doesn't have a thing to do with envy.

But you in your all-knowing sovereign omniscience keeps pontificating your subjective "absolutes!"

71 posted on 12/12/2010 3:21:56 PM PST by Colofornian
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To: Elsie
it's my feeling that this attitude is found in ALL types of churches and religions: something bound up in the soul of the natural man.

It is called corruption, and is common to every religion and every other grouping of humans, and has persisted from the beginning of human history.

Anyone who pushes for a "biblical" form of government, or a "religious" form of government, is corrupt, insane, or ignorant to the max.

72 posted on 12/12/2010 3:50:42 PM PST by meadsjn (Sarah 2012, or sooner)
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To: Reeses
Bashing Mormon conservatives is clearly your hobby.

What does CONSERVATISM have to do with it?

I bash MORMONism quite unilateraly!

(Other folks seem to want to WHITEWASH the teachings of MORMONism.)

73 posted on 12/13/2010 5:04:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: meadsjn
Anyone who pushes for a "biblical" form of government, or a "religious" form of government, is corrupt, insane, or ignorant to the max.

And yet so MANY of our laws are based on Biblical concepts.

Amazing; ain't it!

74 posted on 12/13/2010 5:05:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Colofornian
What about malice? Aren't there some malicious who could care less about being "envious" of somebody else -- but merely want to ruin somebody else's reputation?

Just because there are exceptions doesn't invalidate the envious motive behind most gossip. When the emotion of envy turns into action it becomes malice. Gossip is a passive-agressive form of malice favored by women. Envy wears many disguises.

Obviously you feel a competitive threat from Mormonism and wish to damage it, and not religions like Islam or Judaism which you apparently don't envy. Envy is a deadly sin.

75 posted on 12/13/2010 7:44:49 AM PST by Reeses
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To: Elsie
What does CONSERVATISM have to do with it?

There are exceptions but in general Mormons are politically conservative, more so than most religious groups. They are an example of what happens when converative values are held by a community.

76 posted on 12/13/2010 8:14:50 AM PST by Reeses
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To: Reeses; Colofornian

Can you show us some proof of this “gossip” of which you speak or are you just attempting to build some lame strawmen?

What a pathetic attempt to derail this topic and make it about the individual posters, but then again, that’s about the only tactic amateur mormon apologists are familiar with.

How many loaves of bread could $4 billion buy? How many mormons could keep their gold fillings if that $4 billion was spent on building temples vs. taking a man’s teeth?

The cult of mormonism is a threat, it is a threat to the soul. The rest of your red herrings are pointless.

It is “OBVIOUS” that some on this thread don’t get that. Nor do they understand the rules of the RF in regards to mind reading.

Bearing false witness (slander) is a sin as well sport.


77 posted on 12/13/2010 8:27:17 AM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: Reeses; Elsie
There are exceptions but in general Mormons are politically conservative, more so than most religious groups.

Mitt Romney and Harry Reid - political point men for mormonism - really conservative.

78 posted on 12/13/2010 8:36:36 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Reeses
Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

79 posted on 12/13/2010 8:38:50 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: Reeses; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; svcw; Zakeet; Tennessee Nana; aMorePerfectUnion; ...
Just because there are exceptions doesn't invalidate the envious motive behind most gossip. When the emotion of envy turns into action it becomes malice. Gossip is a passive-agressive form of malice favored by women. Envy wears many disguises.

Obviously you feel a competitive threat from Mormonism and wish to damage it, and not religions like Islam or Judaism which you apparently don't envy. Envy is a deadly sin.

It appears that some folks have malice towards women, as well as towards those who dispute the fallacies of mormonism.

The original thread began THIS way....

Do we really believe that just because one is rich one is blessed by God? According to a study published in 2004 which researched the Mormon Wealth Attribution (MWA), we do. The MWA can be defined as the tendency of LDS individuals to perceive those who are wealthy as more righteous or pious than their less wealthy neighbors. The randomized empirical study reported that “Church members are more likely to attribute righteousness to a wealthy church member than to a poor one” and that (in general) wealthy members of the church are seen as being better people, both secularly and spiritually than poor people.

I have seen many LDS individuals (including priesthood leaders) apply negative attributions and stereotypes toward those who are poor or lacking resources. They implied that these poor individuals need to “pull themselves up by their bootstraps” and either work harder or be more righteous. To me, making these kinds of attributions based on wealth alone (or at all) seems to be dangerous and hurtful.

Time to get this thread back on the subject and not buy in to the attempt to derail it.

80 posted on 12/13/2010 8:41:42 AM PST by greyfoxx39
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To: Reeses
Please name conservative elected lds officials?
81 posted on 12/13/2010 9:18:49 AM PST by svcw
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To: Reeses

One example of gossip.
I really think what is going on here is that you may have envy envy.


82 posted on 12/13/2010 9:19:58 AM PST by svcw
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To: svcw

He did name Bob Bennet, recently ousted from his seat.

Conservative?

The GOP Convention in Utah didn’t think so.


83 posted on 12/13/2010 9:28:53 AM PST by Graybeard58
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To: svcw

I do not know if Bennet was LDS or not.


84 posted on 12/13/2010 9:30:11 AM PST by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58

BB is not a conservative. I mean some people even try and say Romney is a conservative.


85 posted on 12/13/2010 9:43:51 AM PST by svcw
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To: Graybeard58; svcw

Bennett is LDS and a RINO.

There is a truly conservative member of the House who is LDS. Jason Caffetz is known for his leadership in the Tea Party caucus. Time will tell.

Mormons are just like anyone else. There a conservative LDS, liberal LDS, ethical ones, criminal ones, good and bad.

They all need salvation.


86 posted on 12/13/2010 9:46:44 AM PST by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
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To: Reeses

Gossip is a passive-agressive form of malice favored by women. Envy wears many disguises.
__________________________________________________

WOW

Is this something that the mormon guys are taught in their pesthood meetings ???

That when men do it its called “discernment”

But when woman do it is called “gossip” ???

Good thing we now know that men do it disguised as women...

That was what you meant right ???


87 posted on 12/13/2010 11:28:14 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

The MWA can be defined as the tendency of LDS individuals to perceive those who are wealthy as more righteous or pious than their less wealthy neighbors.
________________________________________________

Just imagine what they thought of Mother Teresa...

And then theres the Biblical Jesus...

Jesus said, “Foxes haves holes, birds have nests, but the Son of man has no place to rest His head”...Matthew 8:20, Luke 9:58

for your sakes He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich. ... 2 Corinthians 8:9


88 posted on 12/13/2010 11:36:23 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Reeses
There are exceptions but in general Mormons are politically conservative, more so than most religious groups.

Bull!

The ELECTED MORMONs are very solidly on the LEFT of Conservatism!

Do I need to post a LIST?

89 posted on 12/13/2010 12:24:51 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Elsie
Anyone who pushes for a "biblical" form of government, or a "religious" form of government, is corrupt, insane, or ignorant to the max.

And yet so MANY of our laws are based on Biblical concepts.

Amazing; ain't it!

And there are some pretty strong and perfectly valid arguments that Communism is based on Biblical concepts, perhaps even more so than any governments of Western Civilization.

And of all the societies and governments discussed in the Old and New Testaments, not a single one of them bore the slightest resemblance to a Constitutional Republican form of government, and not a single one of them would be suitable for a modern civilization.

There is a whole world of difference between "borrowing a few concepts" from the Bible, and "structuring a government based on the Bible" or any other religious basis.

During the development of the US Constitution, there was no shortage of wannabee religious tyrants who wanted to inject their personal congregational dogma into the Constitution, and the framers wisely sent them packing. There is likewise today, no shortage of wannabee religious tyrants who would like to recreate our Constitutional Republic into some kind of religious tyranny based on their narrow-minded method of worship and faith.

Religious tyranny is no more desirable than any other sort, and will be fought against and defeated by freedom-loving patriots just as fervently as any other sort.

There is little doubt that our founders and framers were in fact "religious and moral" people, but they were wise enough to differentiate between their personal religious beliefs (which would NOT provide a unifying foundation across all congregations and faiths), and a unifying Constitutional Republic, with a separate guarantee in the Bill of Rights, of each person's right to worship, or not, as each person sees fit.

90 posted on 12/13/2010 12:41:16 PM PST by meadsjn (Sarah 2012, or sooner)
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To: meadsjn
During the development of the US Constitution, there was no shortage of wannabee religious tyrants who wanted to inject their personal congregational dogma into the Constitution, and the framers wisely sent them packing.

Sent packing?

So THAT's how we ended up with a Living Document and ABORTION as LAW of the land!

91 posted on 12/13/2010 12:53:13 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going.)
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To: Elsie
Sent packing?

English translation for the pathetically ignorant: sent packing, disinvited, kicked out, got the boot, deported, sent away, 86'ed, kicked to the curb, defenestrated, etc., etc.

So THAT's how we ended up with a Living Document and ABORTION as LAW of the land!

You can do some google searches for US History timelines, and I'll bet you'll find that there were many generations between the time of the writing of the US Constitution, and the time of the US Supreme Court ruling on Roe vs. Wade.

92 posted on 12/13/2010 1:25:41 PM PST by meadsjn (Sarah 2012, or sooner)
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