Skip to comments.The Mormon Wealth Attribution
Posted on 12/06/2010 8:12:02 PM PST by Colofornian
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Even if it’s spreading the truth, gossip is motivated by envy. It’s a passive-aggressive form of hate favored by women. It’s intent is to destroy and it is effective towards that evil goal, just like leftism.
Let's take your claims & start measuring them vs. reality:
Mormon's success is also high marriage rates...
I looked a few years back and was frankly surprised to see that despite Utah having the lowest median age in the country, it only ranked #17 among states re: those who were married. (Barely ahead of Florida, Nebraska & Oregon)
So why (at that time...not sure how the stats have changed in the last 2 years) were 29% of men in Utah single? [Along with 22.3% of women?] All in a culture where marriage is HEAVILY stressed!
Even a BYU student-journalist noted this trend in a January 2010 BYU Daily Universe article Sister missionaries and the aging single population -- where Chelsea Warren noted:
...fewer BYU students are getting married during their college years than ever before. According to the Y Facts University Marriage Statistics page, the percentage of married students at BYU has steadily declined from 29 percent in 1992 to 25 percent in 2009. While a 4-percent drop may not seem like much, it reflects a national trend of the aging single population.
This is rather significant. Why? Because LDS teach that marriage itself is a "law" to be obeyed if one wants to progress to godhood.
(Well, ONLY if you want to ignore both white-collar crime and sexual and domestic violence in Utah).
Utah's sexual violence:
#1 Utah's rate of rape against women is about 10 percent higher than the national average, according to the department. Source: Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average
Sidebar to article mentions: » In 2008, Utah's rate of rape was 63.7 for every 100,000 females; the U.S. average is 57.4. » Reported rapes decreased in Utah about 10 percent during the 10 years ending in 2008. » Carbon, Salt Lake, Tooele, Uintah and Weber counties had higher rates of rape than the state rate between 2002 and 2008. Source: Utah Department of Health, Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification
#2 This wasn't some new surge: Since 1991, Utahs rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html ]
Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently has ranked between 14 & 18 re: rape rate? Why as of 4 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?
#3 There's something about Utah itself: The Salt Lake Tribune reported Fall 2009 that in 2005, Utah ranked 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses... Source: Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools
The U.S. Department of Justice reported (Fall 2001) that national domestic violence rates decreased 41 percent since 1993. But Utah officials reported a 31 percent increase in state domestic violence between 1997 and 2000. With those climbing numbers, Utah in 2001 had the second highest domestic violence rate in the nation. Source url: http://byumedia.com/story.cfm/34616
Utah's White-Collar crime reputation:
(The second note below shows this problem is endemic & specific to the Mormon church):
* Frustrated by the wave of fraud that by one estimate took $750 million out of Utahns' pocketbooks last year, regulators, law enforcement officials and attorneys are organizing a free 'Fraud College' next month in Utah County for the public to call attention to the problem and to try to combat it. Source: Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS Church skips fraud-prevention event
* Lds members have fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
Source: Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud
* This isn't new...Utah has long been host to the most per-capita fraud in America: Salt Lake City, with a mere 170,000 residents, is by far the countrys smallest city where the scam-fighting U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission has an office. It has been there since the early 1950s. Why? There is a lot of fraud here per capita, says local SEC boss Kenneth Israel. There doesnt seem to be any shortage of work for us. [Source url: http://www.lds-mormon.com/6303056a.shtml ]
* Utah was #1 in mortgage fraud in America by 2001 when the FBI listed Utah as No. 1 in the country for the amount of mortgage fraud cases reported. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html ]
...and many other metrics.
(Oh, like depression and suicide?)
* See where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls:
* Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse. Source: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem
* Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology. Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore
* Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned Facing East, now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach. Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts
* For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html
Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest:
In addition, per this article the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.
So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!
My point: Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!
It's clear Mormons are very conservative politically and they shouldn't be attacked leftist style on a conservative political website.
Actually, it's clear you've flunked your Utah sociological homework. And therefore you need to apologize to posters you've falsely accused due to your data blinders!
So, exactly WHAT would you call this?
As of December 31, 2009, there were 51,736 LDS missionaries were serving in 344 church missions throughout the world.
You've carefully cherry picked negative data. Mormons are conservatives. What is your motivation for demonizing them like leftists do? Are they a competitive threat to your religion?
You're funny. Here my point is how incomplete of a social eval you've given Mormons, & what do you accuse me of -- "cherrypicking?"
You're the one who defined the "boundaries" in your comment! You're the one who mentioned marriage & crime rates & wide-open "other metrics," not me!
You're like a prosecuting attorney who doesn't want the conversation to go in a certain direction. Yet your very comments about a subject open the door to that subject. And when the defense attorney now discusses the very subject you brought up, you scream, "Objection! Your honor. Objection!"
Which means by sheer obviousness that you still now wish to carefully, cherrypick-fully, navigate around whatever crime & other metrics that don't measure up to your cardboard cut-out spin presentation.
The very thing you accuse me of -- you are guilty of! You want to ignore reality because it doesn't measure up to this cardboard cut-out image of what you want to present about Mormons!
Facts are stubborn things, my friend!
Mormons are conservatives.
Is being on the leading cutting-edge of white-collar crime a "conservative" trait? How about affinity-based fraud, rampant at epidemic levels within the Mormon church? Is that also a "conservative" trait?
Utilizing depressants? Another "conservative" trait?
And even if we were to discuss the social realties of say, conservative Christians in other regions of the country, does your cookie-cutter limitations consistently keep you from ever mentioning any negatives about people groups?
Aren't you guilty of suppressing reality? Doesn't the Bible discuss in a highly negative way those who suppress the truth? (Romans 1, for example)
And do Mormons "conserve" the number of gods they embrace?
They have a "mom" god...
...They believe their "god" had a "god."
...They believe a "council of gods" selected their "god" to become a "god."
...They believe Jesus & the Holy Ghost are separate "gods."
...Temple Mormons believe they can become "gods."
You wanna tell me that thinking you'll become a "god" is a "conservative" trait? Really?! (From what planet did you arrive?) Or that hundreds, thousands, or millions/billions of gods exist...that, too, represents conservative heartland America? Really?
Being not depressed is a conservative value. Coffee has an anti-depressant effect. Since Mormons don't drink coffee that might explain the increased demand.
Bashing Mormon conservatives is clearly your hobby. I wish you could channel some of that energy into bashing leftism, a much more serious evil.
I didn't mean that kind of "spreading the truth". Gossipers sometimes use truth as a defense. Gossip is driven by envy, the same thing that drives leftism.
Well, you are entitled to your definition of "truth"...we see the 52,000 mormon missionaries as being out there spreading falsehoods and given the diatribes made against Christians by mormon leaders up until McConkie, as spreading vicious gossip about no church except mormonism being true.
Don't we take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ? Who are we to follow when it comes to setting cultural priorities? Jesus and the apostle Paul? or a FREEPER posted named Reeses?
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)
So does Jesus say, "fear the 'leftists'?" (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.
As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:
"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)
Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)
Tell me something, Reeses: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important? So what? We're just to conclude, "Oh, the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament -- what does he know about cultural priorities?"
I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to your guesswork based upon your self-professed bashing those willing to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints (Jude 3)
Being not depressed is a conservative value.
(What a twister you are! If Utah leads the nation in the use of anti-depressants, does that in your opinion mean Utah is the leading non-depressive state? To hear you twist it, it is! Wow! Utterly wow!)
Your constant distortions is a real danger to truth.
When sociological data is favorable for you to cite it, that's OK. But if somebody dares challenges your pre-conclusions, look out! You vie for suppressing such realities.
You may not be Mormon, but the same author behind Joseph Smith is written all over you. Smith used the printing press to his religious huckster advantage. Yet, when former Mormons dared to print one publication -- the Nauvoo Expositor -- "Mayor" Smith sent his mobocrats (200 of them) to go & destroy the printing press. That same spirit of suppression is expressed by you).
Perhaps dear reeses can show that mormonism DOESN'T teach that mormonism is the only TRUE church. Perhaps reeses can provide some proofs to his assertions of 'gossip'. It would be challenging to see an intelligent line of reasoning and not this nonsense.
So, you not only have some "evilmeter" detector (your comment in post #24: "...the Mormons in general do not seem evil to me")...but you can also detect/gauge all internal motives in some absolute way?
(You are somethin' else, Reeses)
Your subjective comments somehow become established as absolutes ("and don't confuse with any opposing facts," your tone offers up).
Think of what the TSA could do with your "evilmeter" and "internal motive" detectors, Reeses! Isn't it 'bout time you patent those for the world to use?
Or is it just possible that 1 Samuel 16:7 applies to you as well-- in that ONLY GOD can see the inside heart of a person...whereas the rest of us tend to judge what's on the outside?
Have you ever thought about how your latest subjective "absolute" ("Gossip is driven by envy...") might not be applicable to all people?
What? You mean you can't come up with any other reasons why a person might gossip?
What about nosiness? Busybodies? Are they always absolutely envious?
What about malice? Aren't there some malicious who could care less about being "envious" of somebody else -- but merely want to ruin somebody else's reputation?
And then what about the kind of "gossip" you mentioned -- the kind that is true. Couldn't their motivation be that they dislike secrets that are hurting other people?
I could think of LOTS of reasons why somebody might "gossip" the truth...that doesn't have a thing to do with envy.
But you in your all-knowing sovereign omniscience keeps pontificating your subjective "absolutes!"
It is called corruption, and is common to every religion and every other grouping of humans, and has persisted from the beginning of human history.
Anyone who pushes for a "biblical" form of government, or a "religious" form of government, is corrupt, insane, or ignorant to the max.
What does CONSERVATISM have to do with it?
I bash MORMONism quite unilateraly!
(Other folks seem to want to WHITEWASH the teachings of MORMONism.)
And yet so MANY of our laws are based on Biblical concepts.
Amazing; ain't it!
Just because there are exceptions doesn't invalidate the envious motive behind most gossip. When the emotion of envy turns into action it becomes malice. Gossip is a passive-agressive form of malice favored by women. Envy wears many disguises.
Obviously you feel a competitive threat from Mormonism and wish to damage it, and not religions like Islam or Judaism which you apparently don't envy. Envy is a deadly sin.
There are exceptions but in general Mormons are politically conservative, more so than most religious groups. They are an example of what happens when converative values are held by a community.
Can you show us some proof of this “gossip” of which you speak or are you just attempting to build some lame strawmen?
What a pathetic attempt to derail this topic and make it about the individual posters, but then again, that’s about the only tactic amateur mormon apologists are familiar with.
How many loaves of bread could $4 billion buy? How many mormons could keep their gold fillings if that $4 billion was spent on building temples vs. taking a man’s teeth?
The cult of mormonism is a threat, it is a threat to the soul. The rest of your red herrings are pointless.
It is “OBVIOUS” that some on this thread don’t get that. Nor do they understand the rules of the RF in regards to mind reading.
Bearing false witness (slander) is a sin as well sport.
Mitt Romney and Harry Reid - political point men for mormonism - really conservative.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Obviously you feel a competitive threat from Mormonism and wish to damage it, and not religions like Islam or Judaism which you apparently don't envy. Envy is a deadly sin.
It appears that some folks have malice towards women, as well as towards those who dispute the fallacies of mormonism.
The original thread began THIS way....
Do we really believe that just because one is rich one is blessed by God? According to a study published in 2004 which researched the Mormon Wealth Attribution (MWA), we do. The MWA can be defined as the tendency of LDS individuals to perceive those who are wealthy as more righteous or pious than their less wealthy neighbors. The randomized empirical study reported that Church members are more likely to attribute righteousness to a wealthy church member than to a poor one and that (in general) wealthy members of the church are seen as being better people, both secularly and spiritually than poor people.
I have seen many LDS individuals (including priesthood leaders) apply negative attributions and stereotypes toward those who are poor or lacking resources. They implied that these poor individuals need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and either work harder or be more righteous. To me, making these kinds of attributions based on wealth alone (or at all) seems to be dangerous and hurtful.
Time to get this thread back on the subject and not buy in to the attempt to derail it.
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