Posted on 12/15/2010 9:33:19 AM PST by wmfights
You have it! ... Salvation is assured because of God’s Integrity, not my ability. That’s why I often bring the greek word ‘pisteuo’ into discussions where a debate over faith and works rages. The King James scholars translated ‘pisteuo’ variants as ‘believe’ when it would have made more consistent sense with Paul’s writing (in particular) to have written ‘faithing’ or some variant thereof. Trusting in The Christ as your Soter is an action, a behavioral characteristic which will evidence in the life of the Born Again as God’s Spirit transforms ‘by the renewing of your mind’.
See post #37 and #40
Did you ever consider that Mormons may pick and choose which parts of the Bible they are to obey just as you pick and choose?
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Act 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
One must know what they are having faith for.. If we do not see the depth of our sin, and have remorse for it..there is no reason to need a savior.. or to see Christ as the sufficient propitiation for it
Both repentance and faith are works of the Holy Spirit... they are not something we work at or learn
I believe that a truly saved man has the 2 events at almost the same time.. the weight of sin and the grace of God both moving the man to Christ
This implies (perhaps this was the point of departure in our debate) that will is a finite word - that this implies there will not be backsliding/falling into error once you decide to follow Jesus.
There is another good and healthy debate on the concept of "repent" at this blog, but I will post the blog posting here - I tend to agree with all of his points, by the way...
Is REPENT a 4-letter word? Posted: December 9, 2010
No, this is not a trick question. I’m actually very curious about this and I want to know what your opinions are about the word, “Repent.” Is it a 4-letter word? My good friend, Chris, and I have conversations about the word on occasion and it’s healthy. I just want you to chime in, no matter what your opinion is.
I know that it’s in the Bible. Jesus used it, as did many others. What I really want to know is if you think the word “repent” is necessary to use when communicating a clear and compelling Gospel to a non-believer. Personally, I lean towards the fact that it is unnecessary, but I know others who believe it is necessary to use the word “repent” in order to communicate a clear and compelling Gospel.
Here are the random facts I understand about “repent” that have led me to believe what I believe:
Repent is not used once in the Gospel of John, which is the only book in the New Testament written to non-believers.
Repent is often explained in correctly to include stop sinning (which is an impossibility even for believers). the original Greek word, metanaio, means to change your mind or change the way you think.
Paul clearly communicates that we are saved by faith or because we believe, and by nothing else – not by repenting.
I’ve heard it said that the only people ever instructed to repent in the New Testament were Jews, but I’m not positive on that myself.
Please hear me. I’m not scared of the word and I don’t want to avoid using it when and where it’s necessary. However, because of the baggage that it comes with and the fact that I haven’t found where repent is deemed to be necessary in communicating the Gospel I tend not to use it. Not of fear, but out of a desire to not confuse or muddy the Gospel.
What do you think? Am I correct in my leanings of the word, “Repent” or am I letting the baggage weigh me down too?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the essence of the Father.
God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.
Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.
He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.
We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism in repentance, for the remission, and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, and the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life.[26]
Does that prohibit eating lunch or breakfast? Does that prohibit needing to eat dinner tommarow? I would say not. I would say that to infer that WILL means a "forever change" that the emphasis on WILL is too strong.
Also, remember that repent is defined as:
re·pent1 /rɪˈpɛnt/ Show Spelled [ri-pent] Show IPA
–verb (used without object)
1. to feel sorry, self-reproachful, or contrite for past conduct; regret or be conscience-stricken about a past action, attitude, etc. (often fol. by of ): He repented after his thoughtless act.
2. to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better; be penitent.
–verb (used with object)
3. to remember or regard with self-reproach or contrition: to repent one's injustice to another.
4. to feel sorry for; regret: to repent an imprudent act.
Repent means to be sorry for with enough conviction to alter ones actions. It does not mean "changed forever".
Well that was nice...
The rest of it was so right on, I figured that was the case.
Have a blessed and Merry Christmas!
Colonel, USAFR
Until I know where you land in your poorly constructed insulting spin I cannot answer your question properly. You see, the god of Mormonism is not the same God of the Tanakh. And the jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus of the New Testament.
Spin your confusion somewhere else. Just what parts of the Bible have I said I do not believe? Did you really think that juvenile oblique insult would be unchallenged?
There are no conditions on 'truth'. If you can't answer honestly, then you simply aren't honest.
“ Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, ‘ In what way have we robbed You?’ In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, That there may be food in My house, And try Me now in this,” Says the LORD of hosts, “ If I will not open for you the windows of heaven And pour out for you such blessing That there will not be room enough to receive it. “ And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, So that he will not destroy the fruit of your ground, Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,” Says the LORD of hosts; And all nations will call you blessed, For you will be a delightful land,” Says the LORD of hosts. Malachi 3:8-12
So, then we may presume you are dishonest since you keep spinning and spinning, as if you could spin a web to win some nebulous discussion which would defend the heretical religion of Mormonism. If you embrace Mormonism as just another way to Jesus, then you sure cannot discern error when you have it presented to you. How will you recognize truth?
Who is 'we'? And where have I been dishonest?
as if you could spin a web to win some nebulous discussion which would defend the heretical religion of Mormonism.Nowhere have I attempted to defend Mormonism.
If you embrace Mormonism as just another way to Jesus . . .
Let's be clear on this. I embrace Jesus as the only way to Jesus. Got it? Salvation is the starting line - not the finish line.
Who is 'we'? And where have I been dishonest?
as if you could spin a web to win some nebulous discussion which would defend the heretical religion of Mormonism.
Nowhere have I attempted to defend Mormonism.
If you embrace Mormonism as just another way to Jesus . . .
Let's be clear on this. I embrace Jesus as the only way to Jesus. Got it? Salvation is the starting line - not the finish line.
Stop spinning for a moment and tell me if you endorse the god of Momronism as defined by Joe Smith. And you might also tell me if you endorse the jesus Joseph Smith and other leadership of Mormonism have taught. ... But I really doubt you would be honest enough to answer straight since I’ve exposed the heresies in Mormonism and you still work to defend the religion Smith founded.
No.
And you might also tell me if you endorse the jesus Joseph Smith and other leadership of Mormonism have taught. ...
No.
But I really doubt you would be honest enough to answer straight since I’ve exposed the heresies in Mormonism and you still work to defend the religion Smith founded.
Now you're lying. Nowhere have I defended the religion that Smith founded.
Now that I have answered your questions, perhaps you can answer mine. Why do you believe that it is OK for you to ignore parts of the Bible at the same time you criticize Mormons for doing the exact same thing? Let's see how honest you can get.
Okay, this has gone far enough. You are playing word games and mischaracterizing a byte of data I offered in honesty regarding tithing. I will not respond ytto you further because you are a deceiver, dishonest, and disgusting. RM, you have my word, I will not respond to this liar again.
Words such as "false" "wrong" "misleading" are not "making it personal."
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
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