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So, Why Is Incest Wrong?
AlbertMohler.com ^ | December 15, 2010 | Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.

Posted on 12/15/2010 9:45:01 AM PST by wmfights

There are certain questions now pressed upon us that previous generations would never believe could be asked. One of these is thrust upon us by events in New York City, where a well-known Ivy League professor has been arrested for the crime of incest. What makes the question urgent is not so much the arrest, but the controversy surrounding it.

David Epstein is a professor of political science at Columbia University, where his wife also teaches. He previously taught on the faculties of Harvard and Stanford. Last week, he was arraigned before a judge in Manhattan, charged with a single count of felony incest. According to authorities, Professor Epstein was for several years involved in a sexual relationship with his adult daughter, now age 24.

Though the story was ignored by much of the mainstream media, it quickly found its way into the cultural conversation. William Saletan of Slate.com, who remains one of today’s most relevant writers working on the issues of bioethics and human nature, jumped on the story with a very interesting essay that openly asked the question many others were more quietly asking: “If homosexuality is OK, why is incest wrong?”

After reviewing the various legal arguments used to justify criminalizing incest, Saletan comes to the conclusion that genetics cannot be the fundamental basis, since incestuous sex could be non-reproductive. Similarly, the basic issue cannot be consent, since no one is arguing in this case that the sex was non-consensual.

He gets the liberal response just about right: “At this point, liberals tend to throw up their hands. If both parties are consenting adults and the genetic rationale is bogus, why should the law get involved? Incest may seem icky, but that’s what people said about homosexuality, too. It’s all private conduct.”

Saletan comes to the conclusion that the basic reason for the wrongfulness of incest is damage to the family unit. As an Ohio court ruled, “A sexual relationship between a parent and child or a stepparent and stepchild is especially destructive to the family unit.”

Now, remember that Saletan raised the issue of the morality of incest as related to the question of homosexuality. He argues that the family-damage argument against incest does not apply to homosexuality. In his words: “When a young man falls in love with another man, no family is destroyed.”

Saletan’s argument is easy to follow, and if you accept his fundamental premise, it can even make sense. But his fundamental premise assumes that there is no damage to a particular family unit if a homosexual relationship exists. That argument can be made only by ignoring the impact upon a family of origin. Beyond this, it limits the family-damage argument to an individual family, when the argument must be more broadly applied to the family as an institution.

This article is a very interesting window into the sexual confusions that lie at the heart of our age. To his credit, Saletan gets the conservative argument basically right:

The conservative view is that all sexual deviance—homosexuality, polyamory, adultery, bestiality, incest—violates the natural order. Families depend on moral structure: Mom, Dad, kids. When you confound that structure—when Dad sleeps with a man, Dad sleeps with another woman, or Mom sleeps with Grandpa—the family falls apart. Kids need clear roles and relationships. Without this, they get disoriented. Mess with the family, and you mess up the kids.

That’s a pretty fair summary. Of course, the Christian argument goes much deeper than the merely conservative argument, affirming the fact that, with exacting precision, God has spoken to the sinfulness of such behaviors — specifically condemning both homosexuality and incest. In other words, Christians move the question from mere wrongfulness to sinfulness and place all issues of sin within the biblical account of sin and redemption.

It is extremely revealing that, for many of our fellow citizens, incest may merely “seem icky.” And yet, all around us are folks who, with a straight face, deny the inevitability of this slippery slope.


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: deviancy; fornication; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; incest; liberalism; marriage; moralabsolutes; polygamy; sexualliberalism
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After reviewing the various legal arguments used to justify criminalizing incest, Saletan comes to the conclusion that genetics cannot be the fundamental basis, since incestuous sex could be non-reproductive. Similarly, the basic issue cannot be consent, since no one is arguing in this case that the sex was non-consensual.

He gets the liberal response just about right: “At this point, liberals tend to throw up their hands. If both parties are consenting adults and the genetic rationale is bogus, why should the law get involved? Incest may seem icky, but that’s what people said about homosexuality, too. It’s all private conduct.”


1 posted on 12/15/2010 9:45:05 AM PST by wmfights
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To: wmfights

since incestuous sex could be non-reproductive

Right, and if it turns out to be reproductive you just dig the baby out and flush it down the toilet.


2 posted on 12/15/2010 9:48:45 AM PST by DManA
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To: wmfights

Liberals will soon try to define this as marriage, too.


3 posted on 12/15/2010 9:49:04 AM PST by bolobaby
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To: wmfights

Your sins will find you out. Ask God. Go ahead.


4 posted on 12/15/2010 9:49:09 AM PST by RexBeach
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To: wmfights
So, Why Is Incest Wrong?

Because you can wind up with brain damaged offspring.


5 posted on 12/15/2010 9:49:44 AM PST by humblegunner (Blogger Overlord)
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To: wmfights

Oh brother ....


6 posted on 12/15/2010 9:50:44 AM PST by clamper1797 (Pray for Obama ... Psalms 109:8)
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To: wmfights

A few years ago, a book was written by a young woman who confessed to sleeping with her father. I wonder if this is the same young woman.


7 posted on 12/15/2010 9:51:45 AM PST by yellow rubber ducky (One day I realized I am living in Bizarro world.)
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To: wmfights
Saletan is an effing idiot. The problem with incest, be it hetero or disordered homo is simple. The parent raises the child and is in a position to teach his children that satisfying Daddy's needs is the prime directive in life from a young age.

Liberal assholes.

8 posted on 12/15/2010 9:52:17 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: clamper1797

Oh brother ....

__________________________________

.... said the sister.


9 posted on 12/15/2010 9:53:36 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: wmfights

Comes to that, why have a separate crime for rape? Except for the the fact that a baby COULD be conceived (and so what by this logic) it’s really just assault and battery.


10 posted on 12/15/2010 9:53:53 AM PST by DManA
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To: wmfights

Personally, I believe a good number of homosexuals are victims of incest. I wish a study would be done on this.


11 posted on 12/15/2010 9:53:53 AM PST by Beowulf9
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To: wmfights

The moral compass spins in a circle like a magnetic compass at the North Pole, when following liberal ethics which deny the human soul, and consult the brain stem and genitals to determine how one should feel.


12 posted on 12/15/2010 9:54:03 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: wmfights

I remember when all the folks who argued that incest, bestiality and poligamy was where the homo marriage thing was going were laughed off as paranoids.


13 posted on 12/15/2010 9:55:56 AM PST by jospehm20
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To: wmfights

Rush was talking about this yesterday.

I’m wondering when idiots like this professor will argue that’s its OK to have sex with his students. They are of legal age, right? Consenting adults and all that, right?


14 posted on 12/15/2010 9:55:56 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: wmfights
The most appaling thing is that this guy will become a hero and a cause celebre to some.
15 posted on 12/15/2010 9:56:33 AM PST by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: wmfights

Obviously....

16 posted on 12/15/2010 9:56:33 AM PST by r9etb
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To: wmfights

“If homosexuality is OK, why is incest wrong?”

Homosexuality is OK?


17 posted on 12/15/2010 9:56:47 AM PST by Altura Ct.
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To: humblegunner

Uh Oh...


18 posted on 12/15/2010 9:57:09 AM PST by Vendome
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To: DManA
Right, and if it turns out to be reproductive you just...

call them European Royalty

19 posted on 12/15/2010 9:58:00 AM PST by Michael.SF. (Current count of friends/family who have abandoned Obama: 11)
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To: wmfights
As I wrote in a student paper way back when I was in grad school, the legitimization of incest and even recognition of incestuous marriages is the logical conclusion of arguments advanced in favor of gay marriage.
20 posted on 12/15/2010 9:59:23 AM PST by curiosity
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To: wmfights
... quietly asking: “If homosexuality is OK, why is incest wrong?”

Start with a glaringly incorrect assumption, get a glaringly stupid question.

21 posted on 12/15/2010 9:59:31 AM PST by Pan_Yan
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To: Michael.SF.

That bunch has it’s own definition of incest - calls it “good breeding”.


22 posted on 12/15/2010 10:00:16 AM PST by DManA
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To: humblegunner
Because you can wind up with brain damaged offspring.

Not to mention the potential for awkward moments at Thanksgiving dinner.

23 posted on 12/15/2010 10:00:37 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (Pablo lives jubtabulously!)
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To: wmfights

If you give perverts an inch they will take a mile.

It is starting with Homosexuals, Been around for years, mainly in the closet. Today they want homosexuality allowed in the military and in marriage.

Soon it will be consensual incest, Polygamy,then pedophilia, then Beastiality.

It is an old argument with liberals saying that one thing does not necessarily lead to another, but the fact is that it does.

Pornography starts with the viewer watching two people having sex ,then that isn’t exciting enough along come the more exotic films with oral, anal, before long its fisting and BDSM and it gets worse from there.

Just as Marijuana is a gateway drug to Cocaine, Heroin, Meth and other drugs.
Homosexuality is the latest gateway for openly perverted sex.

Turn your backs and allow open perversion of one kind and pretty soon you will be turning your back on other perversion. Already this story has people who see nothing wrong with incest. They speak of a controversy. There is no controversy It is wrong.


24 posted on 12/15/2010 10:00:45 AM PST by Venturer
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To: Responsibility2nd
I’m wondering when idiots like this professor will argue that’s its OK to have sex with his students.

Idiots like a great many members of this forum think is A-OK for teachers to have sex with their students if the student is male and the teacher is female and "hot".

25 posted on 12/15/2010 10:01:00 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: wmfights

Its common place in Islam.


26 posted on 12/15/2010 10:01:55 AM PST by MissyMack66 (ROMNEY SUCKS: don't be fooled like we were in MA.)
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To: r9etb

Look a lot like my neighbors.


27 posted on 12/15/2010 10:02:51 AM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: Altura Ct.
Homosexuality is OK?

Absolutely it is. Utterly and 1000% completely. Just ask the Washington, DC City Council. They'll tell you all about it ... and give you and your "buddy" a "marriage" license.

In 10 years, they'll be licensing you to marry your llama.

28 posted on 12/15/2010 10:03:51 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Pan_Yan

As soon as you grant them their premises you are obliged to accept their conclusions.

Eye, there’s the rub.


29 posted on 12/15/2010 10:04:02 AM PST by DManA
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To: humblegunner
Because you can wind up with brain damaged offspring.

Did you read the article? That doesn't apply to many situations (e.g., two gay brothers).

Also, you can wind up with brain damaged offspring between unrelated spouses -- it's just a lot less likely that way.

30 posted on 12/15/2010 10:05:17 AM PST by Sloth (If a tax cut constitutes "spending" then every time I don't rob a bank should count as a "desposit.")
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To: wmfights

If they’re into incest, just tell them to go to Pakistan.

Excuse me, Pahkeestahn.


31 posted on 12/15/2010 10:06:11 AM PST by struggle ((The struggle continues))
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To: wmfights

“When a young man falls in love with another man, no family is destroyed.”

Wrong.

Two are and two more potentially are. The potential ones are those each ‘mo could have had if they were not encouraged to pursue deviancy.


32 posted on 12/15/2010 10:07:12 AM PST by Adder (Part 1 Accomplished)
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To: jospehm20

Slippery slope argument. Once you get out there on the downhill slide it is nearly impossible to stop. This is yet another example of the truth of the argument. Now that the homosexual lobby has been almost guaranteed victory in the courts, here come the rest of the perverse and perverted wanting the same.

“But we just want to prohibit smoking on airplanes! Honest!”. “This ‘common sense’ legislation will only (fill in the blank), and anyone opposed doesn’t want to keep our children safe!” Yeah, we are the ones that are ‘paranoid’ alright. We have been right every time.

Now about that Tri-Lateralist Commission... ;-)


33 posted on 12/15/2010 10:07:44 AM PST by ex 98C MI Dude (Alea Iacta Est)
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To: wmfights

Why are we even ASKING this question?????


34 posted on 12/15/2010 10:09:37 AM PST by hoagy62 (.)
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To: Michael.SF.

I did not think any state allowed first cousins to marry any longer but...

State Laws Regarding Marriages Between First Cousins:

Twenty-five states prohibit marriages between first cousins. Six states allow first cousin marriage under certain circumstances, and North Carolina allows first cousin marriage but prohibits double-cousin marriage. States generally recognize marriages of first cousins married in a state where such marriages are legal.

http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=4266


35 posted on 12/15/2010 10:09:51 AM PST by cajuncow
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To: Beowulf9
I believe a good number of homosexuals are victims of incest. I wish a study would be done on this.
Certainly victims of homosexual molestation, whether or not by a relative.
36 posted on 12/15/2010 10:11:36 AM PST by samtheman
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To: wmfights

Yes, Josef Fritzl of Austria has shown us all the joys of an incestuous family. Pedophlia builds healthy attitudes toward sex in children? The lessons of eons of human experience can be discarded. If it feels good to you, the hell with how it screws up the kids. This filth has to be the final nail in our coffin.


37 posted on 12/15/2010 10:12:51 AM PST by JimSEA
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To: wmfights

Has anybody considered that maybe the Liberals are already doing a lot of incest and that’s why there are so many Liberals?


38 posted on 12/15/2010 10:14:44 AM PST by sgtyork (The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage. Thucydides)
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To: hoagy62

I’m glad someone said what you just did. Saves me some typing...


39 posted on 12/15/2010 10:15:19 AM PST by Dead Corpse (III%. The last line in the sand)
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To: bolobaby

If incest became marriage it could eliminate the estate tax if done properly


40 posted on 12/15/2010 10:15:54 AM PST by NCLaw441
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To: wmfights
Let's make sure Professor Epstein's photo is prominently shown...


41 posted on 12/15/2010 10:16:36 AM PST by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: curiosity
As I wrote in a student paper way back when I was in grad school, the legitimization of incest and even recognition of incestuous marriages is the logical conclusion of arguments advanced in favor of gay marriage.

It turns out your teacher should have given you an A+.

42 posted on 12/15/2010 10:18:08 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights; 185JHP; 230FMJ; AFA-Michigan; AKA Elena; Abathar; Agitate; Albion Wilde; Aleighanne; ...
Homosexual Agenda and Moral Absolutes Ping!

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FreeRepublic homosexual agenda keyword search
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43 posted on 12/15/2010 10:21:26 AM PST by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: Venturer
Great post

Soon it will be consensual incest, Polygamy,then pedophilia, then Beastiality.

Why not? Look at the case with this Ivy league Professor and his 24 year old daughter. Hey, who are they hurting? /s

44 posted on 12/15/2010 10:21:30 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: hoagy62
Why are we even ASKING this question?????

An Ivy League College Professor just got caught have an incestuous relationship with his 24 yr old daughter that was consensual.

45 posted on 12/15/2010 10:26:01 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: yellow rubber ducky
a young woman who confessed to sleeping with her father

That was McKenzie Phillips, daugher of John Phillips of the Mamas and the Papas........

I think she was trying to rejuvenate her lost child star status and raise some cash to buy more drugs........

46 posted on 12/15/2010 10:26:32 AM PST by Hot Tabasco (There's only one cure for Obamarrhea......)
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To: wmfights

Well, if it’s a ‘consentual’ relationship, shouldn’t the daughter also be charged?


47 posted on 12/15/2010 10:35:55 AM PST by theDentist (fybo; qwerty ergo typo : i type, therefore i misspelll)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Idiots like a great many members of this forum think is A-OK for teachers to have sex with their students if the student is male and the teacher is female and "hot".

No one here thinks that way. You can say it's not funny but, come on, you honestly believe FReepers think these teacher/student relationships are "A-OK"?

48 posted on 12/15/2010 10:37:33 AM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: ArrogantBustard

Are you saying that the government is going to ‘mandate’ the purchasing of Llamas?


49 posted on 12/15/2010 10:37:33 AM PST by Delta Dawn (The whole truth.)
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To: wmfights

Because my sister, wonderful woman that she is, is also not attractive to me. Nor is my mom. Nor are my daughters.

I got a cousin thats kind of cute, but she is really high maintenance.


50 posted on 12/15/2010 10:40:46 AM PST by Vermont Lt (Don't taze my junk bro.)
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