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Islamic And Mormonism Similarities: Similarities Between Joseph Smith and Muhammad
The Interactive Bible ^ | Brother Andrew

Posted on 12/26/2010 8:41:08 AM PST by Colofornian

Islam: Truth or Myth? start page

* "Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca at Salt Lake... Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul 'revelations.' " (The Women of Mormonism, Frances E. Willard, 1882, Introduction, p. xvi)

* "The student of Mormonism will be struck with the similarity of experience and claims of Joseph Smith and Mohammed." (The Rocky Mountain Saints, T. B. H. Stenhouse 1873, p 2)

* "even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed" Gal 1:8

1. The followers of Muhammad and Joseph Smith both killed innocent "infidel" on the same date of 9/11. On September 11, 1857, Mormon militia massacred about 140 men, women and children under the authority of Brigham Young. However 17 very young children were spared and adopted into Mormon families. They were in fact sold to the highest Mormon family bidder and resold and traded many times afterwords. This event is called "The Mountain Meadows" massacre. Mormon leaders engaged in a deliberate rewriting of history to deny they were behind the murders. On September 11, 2001 Muhammad's followers, using the Koran as a guide, sent two airplanes into the World Trade Center killing 3000 innocent men, women and children. Muslims today have a PhD in rewriting history and preach in the mosques that Jews were actually driving the planes, not Muslim terrorists.

2. Both were visited by an angel. Joseph Smith was visited by the angel "Moroni" and Muhammad by Gabriel. Galatians 1:6-9 says, "I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed."

3. Both were given visions.

4. Both were told that no true religion existed on the earth. In the published account of his life, Joseph Smith related that he became very disturbed when he was a youth because of the "strife among the different denominations," and this "cry and tumult" led him to ask God "which of all the sects were right — and which I should join." He was told that he must "join none of them, for they were all wrong... that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt..." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith 2:8-19) N. J. Dawood says that Mohammed was also concerned with the fact that the Jews and Christians had "divided themselves into schismatic sects." In the scriptures given by Mohammed, we read: "Yet the Sects are divided concerning Jesus.... Truly, the unbelievers are in the grossest error." (The Koran, translated by N. J. Dawood, Surah 19, p. 34) In Surah 30, page 190, this warning appears: "Do not split up your religion into sects, each exulting in its own beliefs." In Surah 3, page 398, we read: "The only true faith in Allah's sight is Islam. Those to whom the Scriptures [i.e., Jews and Christians] were given disagreed among themselves through jealousy only after knowledge had been given them."

5. Both were to restore the long lost faith as the one true religion. Islam makes claim that Adam and Abraham were Muslims, a claim that is as ridiculous as it is undocumented from either history or archaeology. Mormons make the unsubstantiated claim that the church in the first century were Mormon.

6. Both wrote a book inspired by God.

7. Both claimed to be illiterate or uneducated and used this as proof the book was inspired. "How could an illiterate man write the Koran or the Book of Mormon?" Joseph Smith is claimed to have only grade three education.

8. Both claimed the Bible was lost, altered, corrupted and unreliable.

9. Both claimed their holy book was the most correct and perfect book on earth.

10. Both claimed that their new "Bible" was based upon a record stored in heaven. With Islam, it is the "mother book" that resides in heaven with God. With Mormonism, it is the golden Nephi plates that the angel Moroni took back to heaven.

11. Both claim that the version we have in our hands today are identical to what the prophet revealed and that parts are not lost, altered and corrupted. Of course the proof that these claims are invalid is found in two books. The Mormon claim is proven false by a book called "3913 Changes to Book of Mormon" by Sandra Tanner. The Islamic claim is proven false by a book (In Arabic language) called, "Making Easy the Readings of What Has Been Sent Down" by Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun. Both books show that the copy of the book of Mormon and the Koran used today is different from what was originally used when each religion was started.

12. Both claimed to be a final prophet of God.

13. Both claimed they were persecuted because of their pure faith.

14. Both were polygamists who had many wives.

15. Both borrowed from paganism/polytheism. Muhammad incorporated that polytheistic moon god called "Allah" and "Allah's three daughters" into Islam. Basically Muhammad chose Allah from within 350 known gods that were worshipped in Arabia and proclaimed the moon god to be the greatest and only God. Smith borrowed from a doctrine called "pyramidology" and the Masons and other magic systems.

16. Both received "after the fact corrective revelations" from God. Muhammad retracted the Satanic verses and Mormons retracted Smith's divine order mandating polygamy. But for Mormons it there is even a closer parallel. Sounds exactly like Muhammad and his satanic verses.

"As many false reports have been circulated respecting the following work, and also many unlawful measures taken by evil designing persons to destroy me, and also the work, I would inform you that I translated by the gift and power of God, and caused to be written, one hundred and sixteen pages, the which I took from the Book of Lehi... which said account, some person or persons have stolen and kept from me, notwithstanding my utmost exertions to recover it again — and being commanded of the Lord that I should not translate the same over again, for Satan had put it into their hearts to tempt the Lord their God, by altering the words, that they did read contrary from that which I translated and caused to be written; and if I should bring forth the same words again, or, in other words, if I should translate the same over, they would publish that which they had stolen, and Satan would stir up the hearts of this generation, that they might not receive this work: but behold, the Lord said unto me, I will not suffer that Satan shall accomplish his evil design in this thing: therefore thou shalt translate from the plates of Nephi, until ye come to that which ye have translated... I will shew unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the Devil." (Book of Mormon, 1830 edition, Preface)

17. Immediately after the death of Muhammad and Smith, a fight broke out from among the "faithful converts" as to who would succeed Muhammad and Smith. Both groups were plunged into irreparable division that has endured ever since. Islam and Mormonism both have squabbles among themselves as to who is the one true splinter group of their prophet!

18. Mormons, contrary to the Bible, "baptize the dead" by gathering genealogies of all men who lived on earth. This contradicts the Bible: "But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless." Tit 3:9 While the Bible says avoid focusing in Genealogies, the Mormon church makes it their central focus of mission. Mormons have even been criticized for baptizing, by proxy, the Jews had died in Nazi Holocaust camps. When lists of genealogies are collected, living Mormons are baptized, on behalf of, those on the lists, who have already died. In this way, Mormons view every man who lived, as being Mormons. In the same way Muslims claim that all men are born Muslims and when they learn the truth of Christianity, they are apostatizing from their first faith. Muslims re-write history by proclaiming Jesus and the Apostles were Muslims in a similar way Mormons baptize Jews (for example) with the expectation they will be Mormons in the next life. Yet gathering of large genealogical lists no more makes dead people Mormons in the next life, than re-writing history makes Jesus into a Muslim.

19. Both the Islam and Mormon religions have those who follow the "original doctrine" of the founding leaders and like these founding leaders, are violent, polygamists, and have revelations justifying their evil actions.

20. Both Muslims and Mormons (and Jehovah's Witnesses) have progressive revelation. Jw’s call it "new light". Muslims call it "Nasikh". Jehovah’s Witnesses were once instructed to celebrated Christmas, birthdays and salute the flag, but "new light" changed all that. Mormons like all Muslims, were originally polygamists until "The Manifesto" against polygamy came as a revelation to John Taylor, over 40 years after Smith's death, on the eve of the US government outlawing the practice of polygamy. New revelation always replaces older revelation that became inconvenient to the prophet.


TOPICS: History; Islam; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: inman; islam; lds; mormon; muslim
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Note: Author of this article is a distinct "Brother Andrew" than the one linked with Open Doors Ministry and books re: Bible smuggling, etc.

Top Lds-Muslim FR threads of 2010:

* A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad [695 replies]
* Muslims and Latter-day Saints Mormon [253 replies before becoming locked]
* Muslims and Mormons share worship space in St Charles [141 replies]
* Mormons, Muslims get along by creating books, not destroying them

1 posted on 12/26/2010 8:41:14 AM PST by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

I dont expect this thread to last long.......


2 posted on 12/26/2010 8:48:11 AM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: Red Badger

IBPD!


3 posted on 12/26/2010 8:53:11 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (T Roosevelt said speak softly, carry a big stick. Obama talks trash and carries a broken stick)
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To: greyfoxx39

You beat me to it!


4 posted on 12/26/2010 8:53:52 AM PST by 4mer Liberal
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To: greyfoxx39

IBPD


5 posted on 12/26/2010 8:58:36 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: All; greyfoxx39; caww; Morpheus2009
One of the more interesting exchanges on the Mormon-Muslim connection occurring on FR threads in 2010 was this one in late August between greyfoxx39 and caww and another poster, Morpheus2009: ...UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE MORMON CHURCH SAYS ABOUT THE CONSTITUTION, AMERICA, AND THE LAST DAYS [see posts #118, 129, 135, 140]

In that thread, Greyfoxx provided a link on post #118 : A Latter-day Saint Perspective on Muhammad

And then GF added @ that post: "A cabinet minister in Egypt, aware of the common ground shared by Muslims and Latter-day Saints, once remarked to Elder Howard W. Hunter of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles that “if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam it must be built by the Mormon Church.” 13 The examples of Latter-day Saint–Muslim interaction mentioned above, together with the Church’s establishment in 1989 of two major centers for educational and cultural exchange in the Middle East (Jerusalem and Amman), reflect the traditional attitude of respect for Islam that Church leaders have exhibited from earliest times. These activities represent tangible evidence of Latter-day Saint commitment to promote greater understanding of the Muslim world and witness an emerging role for the Church in helping to bridge the gap that has existed historically between Muslims and Christians."

Quoting Morpheus2009: This comment from you makes no sense to me at all.

"Because you don’t sound as if you know the facts about how powerful of a force Islam is, especially with help from political correctness that Mormonism does not have at all."

It is the mormon church who is reaching out to Islam in a very PC way.

The Muslim Mormon Connection

CAWW then responded in posts #129 and #140 -- with a comment from GF sandwiched in @ post #135:

To: greyfoxx39
From your link I see Mormons have donated land for building Islamic Mosques...which as far as I'm concerned states they are in partnership with expanding Islam in our country.
Muslims and Mormons who attend each other’s religious services or events often report feeling very much at ease. .....The two faiths often co-host social and educational programs.
The Mormon-owned Brigham Young University operates a world-class research operation in translating ancient Arab religious texts, which many Muslims interpret as more than a token sign of interest.....
THE MORMON CHURCH has also DONATED LAND FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF ISLAMIC MOSQUES,....
Read more at Suite101: The Muslim Mormon Connection: American Muslims and Mormons Have Created a Deepening Friendship
http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_muslim_mormon_connection#ixzz0y6Q5dMmN
129 posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 9:30:16 AM by caww

-----------------------------------------------

To: Morpheus2009
[Responding to this Morpheus2009 comment: There is no association confirmed, just the attempt to reach out, which is a proven failure when you ask how many Muslims convert to Mormonism, or Christianity? Does this Church think that they can win? The idea is ludicrous. Your message should be addressed to the mormon church, not to me.

This speech was given by mormon apostle Boyd K. Packer, on 10 October 2006.

Building Bridges of Understanding: The Church and the World of Islam

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints expresses “special love and concern for the eternal welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we are sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father.”1

We believe that “the great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”2

It is not a coincidence that the world’s great religions come together at Temple Hill in modern-day Jerusalem. Known now as the Place of the Rock, it is a religious shrine for Islam, for Christianity, and for Judaism. All three great religions hold ties to this place. All three, likewise, have a common thread in a tradition that Elijah the prophet would return.3

Knit together by world history and by Old Testament history and doctrine, the Church and the Islamic world can see each other as People of the Book, indeed Family of the Book.

Church members and Muslims share similar high standards of decency, temperance, and morality. We have so much in common. As societal morality and behavior decline in an increasingly permissive world, the Church and many within Islam increasingly share natural affinities.

Muslim scholars point out that the Quran does not restrict Paradise to Muslims. The Quran rewards all those of faith who perform righteousness and believe in the after-life. The Book calls Jesus Christ Messiah, Son of Mary, and by the names Messenger, Prophet, Servant, Word, and Spirit of God.4

It is important that we in the West understand there is a battle for the heart, soul, and direction of Islam and that not all Islam espouses violent jihad, as some Western media portray.

It is as well important that friends in the Islamic world understand there is a battle for the heart, soul, and direction of the Western world and that not all the West is morally decadent, as some Islamic media portray.

Several years ago, I was invited to speak at a convention of insurance executives in Vail, Colorado. On the way, we crossed the Colorado River.

We could see a new bridge in process of construction. It was an engineering marvel. Anchored to the sheer stone walls on both sides was an abutment for the bridge. Launching out into space from that abutment, reaching out for the other side, were sections of steel girders. When they met and were locked together in the middle 1,000 feet above the Colorado River, each would give strength to the other, and that bridge would be locked together over which traffic of all kinds could flow back and forth safely and conveniently.

Alwi, a devout Muslim of Arabic ancestry, and I, a Christian and devout Mormon, have agreed to symbolically walk arm in arm into the future. Together we hope to build a bridge. Except what that symbolizes is accomplished, all of us face a very dark and very dangerous future.

135 posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 10:14:52 AM by greyfoxx39

--------------------------------------------

To: greyfoxx39
More from...Al Shibi....note the lies and that still with all the push for tolerance and freedom of religion he stands on Mohammed...and states he must be accepted as the quran teaches,..without Mohammed their is no Islam....without Joseph Smith...there is no LDS.....without Jesus Christ all humanity is doomed...and there is no other path apart from Christ....

“......No one denies that Muslims are hurt and affected more than anyone else in relation to the several tragic events of late 9/11.... because the terrorists claimed an Islamic affiliation and justification—even though Islam never condones, let alone endorses, any act of terror.”.......

(Note his idea Muslims were hurt by 9/11 more than any other...)

.... “in the end, I believe, the West, if it is to understand Islam and the Muslims, HAS TO adopt the faith and teachings of the prophets of power or firm resolve, as have been described by the Quran—namely, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.”......

(Once more only thru the quran and accepting Mohammed)

......”Islam is the very way of a life that is compatible with common reason and human decency—and, thus, democratic values, freedom, and human rights. In addition, the Muslim world is a great diversity of nations and cultures united by the idea of human goodwill, respect, love, and justice among all nations.”.........

(This guy is way off base about the teachings of Islam)

......”Islam has never been the reason for the suspension of freedom. On the contrary, Islam has taught humanity that there shall be no compulsion in religion. There shall be freedom in religion because the lie cannot be imposed and the truth needs no force.”......

(Can you believe this?)

.....”In other words, we must create in ourselves the sense that there are many paths to God, that the people of each path are held in special relationship to God: each chosen, not only for a mission but also for a special love.”....

(There are NOT many paths to God..another lie)

140 posted on Monday, August 30, 2010 11:52:48 AM by caww

6 posted on 12/26/2010 9:15:36 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: Colofornian

It’s probably one of the main tenets of Lucifer’s gamebook: “Declare that you are the latest and/or last prophet of God. It helps to have considerable charisma. Guaranteed following of gullible souls. Your results may vary.”

There’s nothing new under the sun.


7 posted on 12/26/2010 9:16:46 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Colofornian
Please!

Have you ever been to Temple Square and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others. No decapitations in Utah of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.

ML/NJ

8 posted on 12/26/2010 9:24:51 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: Zuriel

Ping


9 posted on 12/26/2010 9:24:57 AM PST by rogue yam
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To: ml/nj
Have you ever been to Temple Square and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others. No decapitations in Utah of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.

(You obviously weren't a member of the Fancher party in the Mountain Meadows of Southern Utah per 1857, eh?)

Your apologetic could be said about millions of Muslims who haven't committed any acts of violence against anyone...or on behalf of millions of other Muslims who over the next 150 years may not contribute to the violence.

You know, those of Arab descent are over 1/3rd of the population of Dearborn, Michigan (a city of about 100,0000). In fact, if the Muslims were to have some tour of a Dearborn, Michigan mosque, we might hear your twin brother say: Have you ever been to a Dearborn Mosque and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others. No decapitations in Dearborn, Michigan of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.

10 posted on 12/26/2010 9:34:55 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: greyfoxx39; reaganaut; Colofornian

IBPD


11 posted on 12/26/2010 9:57:37 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: ml/nj

No decapitations in Utah of outsiders who wander down the wrong trail either.
_________________________________________

Revisonist history much ???


12 posted on 12/26/2010 9:58:43 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
Why don't you tell me when the last decapitation was. I'm not talking about their early history when they were being chased all across the country. Obviously they had to stand and fight at some point or they wouldn't be here.

ML/NJ

13 posted on 12/26/2010 10:02:10 AM PST by ml/nj
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To: ml/nj

Absence of decapitations prove nothing. The same can be said of muslim communities in the west, and we see them grow steadily more violent and hostile as their numbers grow.

The question is what would the mormons do if they no longer had to consider the opinions of Christians. If the mormons or the muslims held the upper hand would we then see a return to polygamy with excess males being ostracised? Would we see a return to the violent ways of conquest that Joseph Smith called for? Who would they be if there was no Christian America they needed to fit into?

You’re spouting total BS. The mormons didn’t ‘stand and fight’. They maliciously butchered innocent settlers (including women and children) who tried to wander through their territory.


14 posted on 12/26/2010 10:17:53 AM PST by LastNorwegian
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: ml/nj; Tennessee Nana; Colofornian; Utah Binger

Blood atonement (throat slitting but often decapitation) was still being taught and practiced (although more quietly) clear up until the 1930’s.

There are also cases of blood atonement as recently as 10 years ago, and we can’t forget the Lebaron brothers who believed the early prophets so much the ‘blood atoned’ their sister in law. Read “Under the Banner of Heaven” for more about recent Blood atonement, also “Blood of the Prophets”, and I can give you other, recent books as well.

I have a friend (who is LDS) who is a cop in Utah and he says that every year there is at least one murder that is most likely blood atonement, even if it isn’t openly stated as such. Murder statistics, motives and methods in LDS culture is a very interesting study.

Just because it doesn’t make the news doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.


16 posted on 12/26/2010 10:19:14 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ml/nj

Have you ever been to Temple Square and taken their tour? These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others.
____________________________________________

Have you ever invited a Moslem home for Thanksgiving Dinner ???

I have ...a girl from Iran who was a nursing student at my college...

It was 1979 and her family were supporters of the Shah..

She and her folks were down to earth nice, and respectful of others.

She was one of several Iranian students who were caught in Jimmuh Carter’s terrtorism against all Iranian students...

He had cancelled all the student visas over night...

The girls parents had begged her not to come home...

She was a friend of mine...

However she knew that I didnt agree with her beliefs...

but unlike many mormons she didnt verbally assault me...


17 posted on 12/26/2010 10:31:40 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: dljordan

I’m guessing that one of his reasons for posting the article was to wake up some of the complacent mormons who go along thinking that their church is unique and correct. It may stir them to thought and get them to searching...hopefully to discover the actual truth.


18 posted on 12/26/2010 10:35:21 AM PST by Imnidiot (THIS SPACE FOR RENT)
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To: Colofornian
One notable difference is that Muslims are given "proofs" and invited to use their brains to determine if Mo was a true prophet or not.

Mormons are just supposed to pray for a feeling, and to just "know" he was true.

TWELVE PROOFS THAT MOHAMMED WAS A TRUE PROPHET

nOTHING ABOUT BURNING BOSEMS IN THERE.

19 posted on 12/26/2010 10:35:25 AM PST by T Minus Four ("Vital truths were restored by God through Joseph Smith. I just can't think of one")
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To: dljordan; Colofornian; SENTINEL; SZonian; greyfoxx39; T Minus Four; Tennessee Nana
What’s the point? What do you hope to accomplish?

The point is that we are shedding light on Mormon beliefs.

What we hope to accomplish is 3 fold...

1) To show the world what Mormons really believe and teach using their own leader's and prophets words and their own (LDS) sources.

2) To help prevent Christians from getting sucked into Mormonism.

3) to extract Mormons from the clutches of the cult and to bring them to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ.

Now, before you chime in with "no one was ever persuaded by these methods" line (that we often get) let me inform you that I know of at least 3 people on FR who have left Mormonism because of what people like us do.

AND, I was brought out of Mormonism by these same methods.

AND, I have worked in ministry with many others who were persuaded by the same and similar methods.

Finally, if you don't want to see posts like this, do not click 'everything' on your sidebar.

20 posted on 12/26/2010 10:39:44 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut

Thank you for your reasoned and polite reply.


21 posted on 12/26/2010 10:51:30 AM PST by dljordan ("His father's sword he hath girded on, And his wild harp slung behind him")
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To: ml/nj

they were being chased all across the country. Obviously they had to stand and fight at some point or they wouldn’t be here.
___________________________________________

Nobody chased the mormons across the country...

They chose to leave...

where ever the mormons went and tried to take over the locals objected to their wives and daughters being stolen and raped, their property being stolen and themselves being murdered and run off by the invading mormons...

The mormons had a standing army of 5,000 thugs to the US army with its widespread 8,000 men...nobody could make the mormons do anything...they were a law unto themselves...

They would move into any area and demand to run the town with their own large voting block and pagan ideas of law and justice and morals and try to force polygamy on the local women and slavery on the men...

The mormons would claim that their mormon gods had “given” them the area and that the legal settlers had to get out or die...

The ones who were being chased out were the original legal owners and settlers of the land...it was they who stood up and fought off the mauraudering mormons cutthroats...

At one time Joey Smith petitioned ther US congress for permission to raise a 100,000 man army...can you imagine the bloodshed if he had got his wish ???

Joey Smith had already crowned himself “king of the world” and promoted himself from civilian to 2 star general.. he imagined himself also president of the United States for life and attempted to get himserlf elected as such in 1844 sending out his missionaries to canvass for him throughpout the nation for votes...Rigdon was his VP...

BTW the mormons still vote in a block...In Utah about 95% voted for the RINO Romney...

The mormons still believe they are entiled to “own” the US...the biggest land owner outside the US governmemt are ...the mormons...

BTW the givers of the littlest amount and persentage of income to the poor anjd needy are....the mormons...


22 posted on 12/26/2010 10:55:12 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Colofornian

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith’s claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.
________________________________________

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

(Decker, Ed, My Kingdom Come: The Mormon Quest for Godhood, Xulon Press, 2007)


23 posted on 12/26/2010 11:30:51 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Imnidiot; reaganaut; dljordan
I’m guessing that one of his reasons for posting the article was to wake up some of the complacent mormons who go along thinking that their church is unique and correct. It may stir them to thought and get them to searching...hopefully to discover the actual truth.

I didn't read the removed post...I'm guessing at "responding."

Simply put, #1: I didn't write this article (Brother Andrew did; you can ask him)

#2...Reaganaut sized up a nice response.

#3...I would simply add this comment: One aspect is to show that Mormons have more in common with Islam (& therefore, Islam's founder, Muhammad) -- than they do Christianity -- due to its founder, Joseph Smith.

24 posted on 12/26/2010 11:49:25 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: Colofornian

The only part of the deleted post I didn’t copy into my response was the first sentence (and I’m guessing the reason for the delettion) which was along the lines of “Why are you posting this [word not allowed on RF]?” There were only 3 questions and I copied two of them.


25 posted on 12/26/2010 11:56:10 AM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: dljordan

you are welcome.


26 posted on 12/26/2010 12:01:01 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian

IBPD


27 posted on 12/26/2010 12:51:29 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

PD must still be at church...usually doesn’t take this long for him/her to paste “The Reply” onto a thread.


28 posted on 12/26/2010 1:09:28 PM PST by Imnidiot (THIS SPACE FOR RENT)
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To: Colofornian
"Modern Mohammedanism has its Mecca at Salt Lake... Clearly the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, so closely followed as to exclude even the poor pretension of originality in his foul 'revelations.' " (The Women of Mormonism, Frances E. Willard, 1882, Introduction, p. xvi)

Utter nonsense.

Mecca is the holiest city of Islam, so holy that non-Muslims are forbidden by law from entering the city. One of the five pillars of Islam is the Hajj, the obligatory pilgrimage to Mecca: every Muslim who is able to afford it is expected to make a pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in his or her life.

In contrast, Salt Lake City is not considered holy by Mormons, nor are non-Mormons forbidden to enter the city. (In fact, the majority of the city's residents are not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.) Pilgrimages are not a practice or requirement of our religion at all; hence, Mormons are not expected to undertake pilgrimages to Salt Lake City.

In my view, Salt Lake City functions more like Rome than like Mecca.

As for the allegation that the Koran was Joseph Smith's model, I suspect that the writer knew little of either the Book of Mormon or the Koran.

29 posted on 12/26/2010 1:41:31 PM PST by Logophile
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To: reaganaut
I am one of those saved here on Freerepublic by the folks called "anti-mormon".

I was raised mormon, descended from the Martin Harris family, and was a bishopric member at the time.

I was sticking up for the religion during the runup to the 2008 elections and set out to prove a referenced Joseph Smith quote posted by GreyFoxx39 (I think) was false.

I went to the stake library where I had noticed an original copy of the "History of the Church" set, and to my utter horror at the time, FOUND IT TRUE THAT JOSEPH SMITH HAD CLAIMED TO BE GREATER THAN CHRIST....PUBLISHED AND PRINTED RIGHT IN THIER OWN BOOKS !

I asked the stake president about it immediately and saw the wolf come out from behind the sheep's clothing. He responded with threats of excommunication for apostasy etc.

Once I had the courage to check online at the BYU Library website the many Journal of Discourses quotes posted here, with 100% accuracy....Things like Brigham Young teaching that Christ was a polygamist and a sinner, God was a reincarnated Adam, Certain sins are beyond the reach of Christ's atonement and only the shedding of blood could atone for them, Mary was not a virgin at Christ's birth etc......Once I had the courage to check for myself, the ENTIRE FOUNDATION OF THE CHURCH BUILT ON SAND WASHED AWAY IN LITERALLY 2 HOURS.

God saved me, and he can save anyone here in these threads, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO PERFORM THEIR GOD ASSIGNED DUTY TO TEST ALL THINGS AND HOLD FAST ONLY TO WHAT IS TRUE.

Amen

30 posted on 12/26/2010 2:09:51 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: ml/nj
I'll tell you straight up.

Utah still has on the books a law allowing death row inmates to choose death by firing squad. It is, I believe, the only state in the union that allows firing squad executions, and it can be traced right back to Brigham Young's Blood Atonement doctrine.

Also, Bruce R. McConkie's book "Mormon Doctrine" says that blood atonement is a true principle, and the fact that it is no longer used in cases of adultery is proof of the degredation of modern society.

31 posted on 12/26/2010 2:15:08 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: SENTINEL

Amen Sentinel and thank you for sharing your testimony. God has done great things in your life these past few years.

Love ya, brother.


32 posted on 12/26/2010 2:15:44 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
I went to church for the first time since 2007 last week, and again today.

It's hard to trust anyone after living in a cult, isn't it ? Even just a pastor for a sunday lesson.

I chose the Anchorage Cowboy Church because I'm comfortable around country folk, they're not the pushy salesman type, and they use the New King James Bible.

So far, so good....And it's ok to drink a coffee during the sermon. ;)

33 posted on 12/26/2010 2:35:13 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Logophile
Utter nonsense. Mecca is the holiest city of Islam, so holy that non-Muslims are forbidden by law from entering the city.

Temples are the most sacred sites of Mormonism, so sacred that non-Mormons are forbidden from entering them.

In contrast, Salt Lake City is not considered holy by Mormons, nor are non-Mormons forbidden to enter the city... Pilgrimages are not a practice or requirement of our religion at all; hence, Mormons are not expected to undertake pilgrimages to Salt Lake City.

Utah has about 10% of all Mormon temples -- and the Salt Lake City metro area has about 30% of Utah temples (including South Jordan & Bountiful). If a Mormon wants to access one of the 130 Mormon temples in the world -- because most countries do not have one -- "pilgrimages" to Mormon temples ARE required if...
...(a) you want to enter the celestial kingdom (become a god);
...(b) if you want to get married in the Mormon temple (& Mormon doctrine links marriage with HAVING to become a Mormon god)
...(c) if you want to become one of those "saviors on Mt. Zion" Lds "prophet" John Taylor said grassroots Mormons are to be!

Likewise, Lds take "pilgrimages" all the time to Joseph Smith's home of Palmyra NY & death location in IL.

Salt Lake City functions more like Rome than like Mecca.

For the Muslims, Mecca operates as a literal geographical orientation for Muslim eyes; for the Mormons, Salt Lake City operates as a spiritual geographical orientation for Mormon eyes.

34 posted on 12/26/2010 2:35:50 PM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links Some Lds use)
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To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


35 posted on 12/26/2010 2:42:32 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: Red Badger

You were wrong. There are well spelled out reasons why you are wrong. Have you learned why? Do you care to learn?

36 posted on 12/26/2010 2:45:59 PM PST by delacoert
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To: Paragon Defender; ejonesie22; Elsie; aMorePerfectUnion

Let me know if you actually decide to post the answers rather just claim you have when in acutally you have done nothing but post UNOFFICIAL sites full of only Mormon OPINION not doctrine.

And don’t make promises you can’t keep. Good feelings are not a witness of God and do not determine truth. Mormonism is too easily proved false and no ‘holy heartburn’ will even make it true.


37 posted on 12/26/2010 2:52:27 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Paragon Defender
Our obsession with your cult of lies and guilt, paragon, is TO PROTECT THOSE THAT CONSIDER JOINING, AND HELP EXTRACT THOSE THAT HAVE FROM THE PSYCHOLOGICAL TORTURE, THEFT OF FUNDS AND TIME, AND DOWNWARD SPIRAL OF WELL BEING THAT THE MOST FAITHFUL MEMBERS SECRETLY ENDURE.

You claim a first amendment right to publicly recruit here, and we will meet you sqaurely in response. You are trying to do to Christianity what Romney and Reid have done to American Freedom, not on our watch !

Our Christ IS Christ, do your worst.

38 posted on 12/26/2010 2:53:42 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: delacoert

I know Jim Rob don’t much care for Mormon bashing.....


39 posted on 12/26/2010 2:56:33 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: Red Badger
Why do you guys keep calling this "mormon bashing" ?

They lie, we expose, who has sinned here ?...Really.

Any cult that supports Reid and Romney are fair game here at FR, no blind eye will be turned to their recruiting efforts.

40 posted on 12/26/2010 3:01:11 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Red Badger; Colofornian; greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana; ansel12; delacoert

you sure about that? Some LDS have been told to take a hike, esp after they accused us ‘antis’ of arson and planning murder.

Several years ago, the LDS were allowed to spread their propaganda on FR freely, but that has changed and Christians are now allowed to counter them.


41 posted on 12/26/2010 3:04:15 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Paragon Defender
SEEKERS OF TRUTH

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s a mormon poster here that spends a great deal of his time posting . He posts regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

These  multiple spam messages do not address the many examples of mormon doctrine that are posted directly from mormon scriptures and the statements of mormon leaders.

This must lead you to realize that there is NO legitimate method for FR mormons to address the words of their scriptures and leaders in an attempt to paint the mormon religion as Christian.  In fact, statements from mormon doctrine and leaders can ONLY show that these doctrines and leaders were RABIDLY ANTI-CHRISTIAN, from the founder Joseph Smith down through more than 180 years.

Mormonism is attempting to co-opt the Christian message and twist it to include this anti-Christian doctrine so that the world will accept the demand of the mormon church that it be included in the Christian community. 

Don't fall for the lies. Your eternal soul is at risk.

stop claiming

Are you willing to do for the truth what the cults do for a lie? If you REALLY want to know about mormonism..click here


42 posted on 12/26/2010 3:08:31 PM PST by greyfoxx39 (T Roosevelt said speak softly, carry a big stick. Obama talks trash and carries a broken stick)
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To: SENTINEL

I am not a Mormon, but the ones I know are god fearing people.
CHRISTIANS should not be against each other. I know many Protestant people who say bad things about Catholics and vice versa. It is not good...


43 posted on 12/26/2010 3:09:55 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: Red Badger
Mormon FOUNDERS THEMSELVES spoke endlessly about how they were not Christian, about how Islam was founded by God and Chirstianity was an abomination. These were the same men who claimed to have recieved these things FACE to FACE from God.

The mormon heirarchy of today hides these facts from members.

If you have not been a member, you simply cannot comprehend the severity of the burden of mormonism. 30-50 HOURS A WEEK of free labor, 10% (of gross) tithe with a year end tihing audit, a day's pay once a month for fast offering, and GUILT, GUILT, GUILT mixed in with never ending deceit and false doctrine.

Many members are good people and are all God' s children. They are being led straight to hell with secret masonic and occult temple practices (which you have not witnessed, I have), etc. We are trying to save them, as Christ tried to save the Jews during his time, because we love them.

44 posted on 12/26/2010 3:17:04 PM PST by SENTINEL (Mormonism...from Ezra Taft Benson to Reid and Romney in only one generation.)
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To: Red Badger
Only problem with your statmentsment...

Unlike Catholic and Protestants (as well Orthodox), Mormons aren't Christians. Indeed this is one fact we all agree upon in the rather diverse body of Christ.

Look past the fancy buildings and the pretty pictures put forth my the LDS PR department.

We agree there are many good people in the LDS, what we don't agree with is letting them march straight to hell whilst we act all politically correct or let the Mormon organization slander our lord and savior with it's twisted doctrines and practices.

45 posted on 12/26/2010 3:18:51 PM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: SENTINEL

Many Baptist churches do these same things, especially the independents.
I QUIT a Baptist church when they wanted to see my paycheck stub.....


46 posted on 12/26/2010 3:22:55 PM PST by Red Badger (Whenever these vermin call you an 'idiot', you can be sure that you are doing to something right.)
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To: Red Badger; SENTINEL

I agree that Christians should not be against each other, but Mormons ARE NOT CHRISTIANS. Christians ARE called to speak out against blasphemy and false teachings which is what we are doing.

I speak from experience when I affirm that Mormonism is in no way compatible with Biblical (traditional) Christianity (see my tagline).


47 posted on 12/26/2010 3:26:41 PM PST by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: SENTINEL

You claim a first amendment right to publicly recruit here, and we will meet you sqaurely in response.


Oh my flamboyant friend. I came to FR for the political side. Only then did I discover the anti-Mormon propaganda that is presented on a daily basis.

I am the one responding to the cult. Not you. I would have been happy to have just lurked on the political section.

I post links to the truth in response to the anti-Mormon gang that dwells here. I also share some great posts with my fellow Church members.


48 posted on 12/26/2010 3:27:32 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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To: ml/nj
These folks are down to earth nice, and respectful of others.

And they beleve a heresy.

What's yer point?

49 posted on 12/26/2010 3:28:55 PM PST by Elsie
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To: LastNorwegian
 
The question is what would the mormons do if they no longer had to consider the opinions of Christians.
If the mormons or the muslims held the upper hand would we then see a return to polygamy with excess males being ostracised?
 
 
Good question!



Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages,
which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort,
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws,
and to use my influence with the members of the Church
over which I preside to have them do likewise.
 
Wilford Woodruff

President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
 
September 24th, 1890

50 posted on 12/26/2010 3:32:13 PM PST by Elsie
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