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....Puritans of Dorchester adopted an unusual tactic to assist the town's poor: they opened a brewery. As in many English towns of the 17th century, problems of overcrowding led many residents and their children to the edge of destitution. But the Puritans' vision of salvation was holistic: the godly would demonstrate their souls' transformation by God in good works. They would not allow their fellow families to go hungry while they had the means to do something about it. So they opened the brewhouse, using proceeds from beer sales to bring poor children to school, instruct them in the faith and in useful vocations, and give them clothes and food. The brewhouse was a wonderful success, and significantly helped to alleviate the problem of poverty in Dorchester....

....Obviously the Puritans of Dorchester did not believe that Christians could not take a drink; no Puritans believed that, contrary to our stereotype of them as history's great killjoys. When did American Christians adopt a stance not just against drunkenness (which is clearly prohibited in scripture), but against drinking per se? The notion of total abstinence from alcohol emerged in the early 19th century, in the midst of new reform movements associated with the Second Great Awakening.

1 posted on 01/12/2011 8:57:48 AM PST by Alex Murphy
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To: Alex Murphy

I never understood probhibition by christians.. What was Jesus first miracle?


2 posted on 01/12/2011 9:01:35 AM PST by scbison
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To: Alex Murphy

Anyone who believes that the Bible expressly prohibits the consumption of alcohol does not understand their Bible. It merely prohibits drunkeness. Not drinking is fine if that’s your choice, but to create a commandment where none exists...well the Lord has said “teachers” will be held to a higher standard in Heaven...


3 posted on 01/12/2011 9:02:34 AM PST by The Unknown Republican
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To: Alex Murphy

What gets me is how some are so willing to lie about the history of alcohol including its relevance in the Bible simply because they can’t handle their own weaknesses. IMHO, it is about control, nothing more, nothing less.


4 posted on 01/12/2011 9:03:43 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Alex Murphy

A person who abstains will never become the drunk that abuses his kids.

And didn’t the Puritans have some other problems??? I mean, these are not the people to emulate, are they.?


5 posted on 01/12/2011 9:03:49 AM PST by Bodleian_Girl (What did Sheriff Dupnik know about Loughner & when did he know it? http://bit.ly/eQ5ehk)
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To: Alex Murphy

One must also consider the technology of the day, and the important role alcohol played in daily life.

Consider:
* No refrigeration - cooking with wine/beer helped cover up the smell of meat that while still’good’ was beginning to smell and taste ‘ripe’.

* Mixing a little wine in the water, killed both parasites as well as other bugs that could cause disease. Bear in mind, a city may get water from the river; but just a few miles upstream cattle crossed the river - adding contamination to the town’s drinking water.

* Dressing a wound with bandages soaked in beer/wine had an anticeptic effect.

* Washing clothes and bedding with alcohol to kill lice and fleas

* A little ‘buzz’ helps you sleep through the night, ignoring misquitoe, flea and bed-bug bites

* Wine/beer store very well, where water goes stagnant quickly.


6 posted on 01/12/2011 9:06:24 AM PST by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: Alex Murphy

PlaceMark


7 posted on 01/12/2011 9:06:34 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Alex Murphy

 
“Jews don’t recognize the Messiah. Protestants don’t recognize the Pope. And Baptists don’t recognize each other in the liquor store.”


9 posted on 01/12/2011 9:07:21 AM PST by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: Alex Murphy

1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.


16 posted on 01/12/2011 9:12:35 AM PST by DManA
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To: Alex Murphy

Jews do not recognize Jesus as Messiah.
Protestants do not recognize the Pope as Vicar of Christ
Baptists do not recognize each other in the liquor store.


23 posted on 01/12/2011 9:26:18 AM PST by don-o (Wait. What?)
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To: Alex Murphy

My takes also:

Jesus apparently drank enough to be accused of being a drunkard (Luke 7:33-35)

Nazirites in the Bible were Samson, Samuel & John the Baptist. Nazirites were forbidden to cut their hair or consume alcohol. Question: If it was taboo for all to consume alcohol,what purpose did the Nazirite vow serve?

On the day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out on the disciples, the disciples were accused of being drunk on new wine. Peter responded to the charge. He could have said, “We don’t drink wine”, but he didn’t. He essentially said, “Are you crazy? It’s only nine in the morning!”


25 posted on 01/12/2011 9:29:37 AM PST by RatRipper (I'll ride a turtle to work every day before I buy anything from Government Motors.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I am a Baptist...who does not drink. It is by choice, not the Baptist law. There isn’t much the Baptist don’t do today that is considered sin...we gamble,lie,cheat, have affairs....I suppose even some of us are murders.
I think in this day, the question should be, as a Baptist, do you really know the Lord. Do you love Him? Dr. McGee said that Christianty is a love affair. Have we ask Him to help us truly love Him as Lord of our lives? He will help us love Him as we ought.


30 posted on 01/12/2011 9:36:56 AM PST by Ramonne
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To: Alex Murphy

My theory :) :

I think that Modern thinking—that of Locke, Aquinas, Montesquieu, Aristotle—the logic, reason and science which was the basis of our Constitution and the basis of all rational thinking at that time in Europe—is being destroyed and eliminated by the Postmodern German philosophy that originated in the 19th century.....based in the Kantian-Hegelian-Marxian-Nietzsche mold if you combine it all and create this godless society which will throw out the logic and reason of all the modern thinkers that based their common sense on Natural Law Theory.

There is no common sense in the thinking of elites (media) and people writing curricula—those who form the “thinking” of our children.

Of course, there are some people, like me, who were so grounded in love by parents and a Catholic upbringing(you are special and unique because you are a child of God), that I never ACCEPTED the godless Marxist paradigm—of, no logic. I (to me) seem to have tremendous logic and common sense. I am grounded and tied to Natural Law Theory.

Stay with me. Natural Law theory is based on a
Higher Power, and, the atheists had to destroy that Christian paradigm, so the Progressive/atheists since the 1800’s have co-opted the ideas of universities—and through it—their COMPLETE insertion and conditioning into Marxism ideology—(pragmatism/godlessness/materialism). ALL who get degrees are immersed in this ideology and if they aren’t accepting of it—they get the bad grades or don’t get into the elite schools and the cushy jobs of writing curricula like Ayers.

They inserted the ideology of immorality/godlessness into our schools to “mold” the ideas of the young which actually repudiate Natural Law Theory (and a God). It is like Buckley said in Man and God at Yale in 1951—by the time these people graduate from Yale (a once Christian college) they are turned into an atheist, collectivist. They don’t even understand why and their parents (unknowingly) are paying for the outrage.

Anyhow, I have researched curricula and OBE is designed to PREVENT the acquiring of knowledge and the desired “outcome” is to decide everything with “gut feeling” without any knowledge to back up the opinion.

This is intentionally put into our curricula by Progressive/Marxists.

So, in short, logic and reason is never used anymore in deciding anything. Oliver Wendell Holmes inserted the Progressive/Marxian non-logic to kill moral thinking into our legal system in the early 1900s. He and his friends whose thinking was formed by the Universities which had been invaded by the Postmodern Philosophers.

Logic and reason is not allowed in a political correct world—PC is a product of the Cultural Marxists—Gramsci, Lukacs and Marcuse.

Aristotle—The Father of Logic— was kicked out of curricula. He was all about virtue being between two extremes. So, you would think that some drinking is fine....the idea that people can have no control over their actions is actually not very Christian.


32 posted on 01/12/2011 9:39:15 AM PST by savagesusie
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To: Alex Murphy

I’m Baptist, and part of the SBC, and I get some odd looks at times if I mention drinking a glass of wine. However, scripture is the rule to look to, not the Southern Baptist Convention.

What drives me nuts is grape juice for the Lord’s Supper - talk about ignoring scripture!


39 posted on 01/12/2011 9:45:32 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: Alex Murphy
When did American Christians adopt a stance not just against drunkenness (which is clearly prohibited in scripture), but against drinking per se?

When society decided to blame the object for the actions of the person.

Much like suing McDonald's for causing obesity.
40 posted on 01/12/2011 9:51:15 AM PST by Ellendra (Profanity is the mark of a conversational cripple.)
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To: Alex Murphy

I was raised in a church that forbade alcohol, and to this day I don’t drink.

Over many years, I finally came to the conclusion that drinking is not sin, and I refuse to make my rule for me apply to you. At this late stage of life I see no reason to introduce something into my life that has never been a part of it, and I recognize all the pitfalls that can come from alcohol. But I also recognize that most people are able to enjoy a beer on a Saturday afternoon and no harm no foul.

So, my attitude is that the alcohol-free life is probably better, but its a mistake to make a fetish of it. There are Christians the world over who don’t have any misgivings about it (I’ve heard of Brits holding bible-study at the pub). We have a lot of freedom in Christ.


50 posted on 01/12/2011 10:18:11 AM PST by marron
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To: Alex Murphy

One of the things that has made the modern Church virtually irrelevant today in society is that they have promoted all sorts of things which are not sins into the category of being sinful.

Smoking is a great example. Smoking is not a sin but the modern-day Christian has made it a requirement of all Christians to not smoke. Sure, it’s bad for you but so is eating fast food and I still see people doing that.

I know lots of people who think that drinking is a sin and they brag about how “alcohol has never passed my lips”. I tell them that God is not impressed with that and they get very offended. Besides, if they have ever had nyquil or most types of cough syrup they have had some alcohol.

Christians need to get back to the basics instead of trying to shape society to meet all of their personal wishes — which is what the liberals do.


53 posted on 01/12/2011 10:22:42 AM PST by webstersII
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To: Alex Murphy

Growing up in West Texas, there was a saying:

“They have a Babtist bar”.

It meant that they kept the liquor under the sink.


59 posted on 01/12/2011 10:43:00 AM PST by alarm rider (The left will always tell you who they fear the most. What are they telling you now?)
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To: Alex Murphy
Amen.

See Gentry, God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says About Alcohol


62 posted on 01/12/2011 10:48:11 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: Alex Murphy; All

This is really the same argument that the first century church had about eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols. Here’s what Paul had to say about it:

“So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, won’t he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.” (1st Corinthians 8:4-13)

It’s pretty obvious from this passage that eating meat sacrificed to idols, or by extension, drinking alcohol, isn’t inherently sinful. The only sin is when we cause a brother to stumble — and I don’t think, from the context, that Paul meant ‘brother’ in the vague, generic sense of the word — I think he meant a specific person. So, if I offer a drink to my alcoholic friend, then yes, it’s a sin. If I have a hot buttered rum in my own home on a cold winter night, or a glass of wine with dinner, it’s not an issue at all.


77 posted on 01/12/2011 3:08:41 PM PST by Terabitten ("Don't retreat. RELOAD!!" -Sarah Palin)
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To: Alex Murphy

90 posted on 01/13/2011 9:50:04 AM PST by Yaelle
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