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To: scbison

I have two fundamentalist coworkers who berate me about drinking (I’m Catholic so I must be a drunk). BTW they are so fundie they think Rev. Billy Graham is a communist.

But whenever I mention the wedding at Cana they fall into sullen silence or insist Jesus turned water into grape juice. But the chief steward criticized the bridegroom for “saving the best wine until now” because by now the guests were too snockered to tell the difference. And if what he tasted had turned out to be nothing but grape juice, he would have said “I quit!” and stormed out.

Then, my evangelists conclude that of course the chief steward thought the water-made-wine was the best he had ever tasted because Jesus’ divine nature would allow nothing less.

Google “the grape juice myth” for more insight. BTW, the Mormon prohibition on alcohol is strictly a 19th century thing.


22 posted on 01/12/2011 9:25:04 AM PST by elcid1970 ("A man's got to believe in something. Believe I'll have another drink.")
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To: elcid1970
I have two fundamentalist coworkers who berate me about drinking (I’m Catholic so I must be a drunk). BTW they are so fundie they think Rev. Billy Graham is a communist....Then, my evangelists conclude that of course the chief steward thought the water-made-wine was the best he had ever tasted because Jesus’ divine nature would allow nothing less.
Often in our discussions, journalists refer to ordinary evangelical believers as “evangelists” — as if the roughly 70 million conservative Protestants in America were all traveling preachers like Billy Graham and Luis Palau — or, more to the point, televangelists like Jim Bakker and Jimmy [Swaggart]. Hey, aren’t all evangelicals really pretty much like these last two, or rather as many reporters tend to see them — scandal-prone limelight seekers with ambitions to impose a repressive Christian moral order on all America? Other journalists simply cannot pronounce “evangelicals” at all. They get confused and flustered, and after a few uncomfortable tries at “evangelics” and “evangelicalists” they give up and resort to referring to evangelicals simply as “them.” These are the knowledge-class professionals who are supposedly informing millions of readers about religion in America.
-- from the thread Attack of the Evangelicalists!
Fundamentalist: A term created during the turn-of-the-20th-century Protestant church splits to define those who held to the “fundamentals” of Christianity—the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Jesus and his literal resurrection from the dead. The term is now considered pejorative. (Wheaton College philosophy professor Alvin Plantinga famously observed, “The full meaning of the term…can be given by something like ‘stupid sumbitch whose theological opinions are considerably to the right of mine.’)
-- from the thread New Kids In The Flock
"I find it amusing that it was Calvinists and Presbyterians who came up with the "Five Fundamentals" (where the perjorative "fundamentalist" comes from) as an ecumenical tool to find common ground with Christians of all persuasions (including Catholics and Orthodox). I myself can find fruitful, common ground with any and all Trinitarian Christians (Trinitarianism being my personal "outermost circle" for defining Christianity."
-- Alex Murphy, September 17, 2010

35 posted on 01/12/2011 9:43:06 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: elcid1970

Claiming that Jesus turned water into only grape juice denies part of the miracle. Certainly, transforming matter is miraculous; but to me, changing water to wine signifies Jesus’ mastery over time itself, because natural fermentation takes time.


79 posted on 01/12/2011 5:59:43 PM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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