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[Chapter six] Great Cities of the Bible: Jerusalem-Destined For Glory
The Moody Church ^ | Dr. Erwin W. Lutzer

Posted on 01/13/2011 3:36:43 PM PST by wmfights

Jerusalem should be your favorite city! After all, it’s the city that God has chosen for Himself (1 Kings 11:13). In Psalm 87:2,3 we read, “The Lord loves the gates of Zion more than all the other dwelling places of Jacob. Glorious things are spoken of you, O city of God.” Ancient maps put Jerusalem in the center of the world, and I think those maps are right! Jerusalem is also God’s timepiece. The final events of world history will culminate there with the glorious return of Jesus Christ to the Mount of Olives.

What about Jerusalem’s ancient past? In Genesis 22:2 the Lord asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on “Mount Moriah.” The only other passage where this name appears is 2 Chronicles 3:1 where we read, “Then Solomon began to build the house of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah...” So, evidently Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac on Mount Moriah, which was the exact spot where the temple was later built in Jerusalem. When you look at the temple area today, remember this is where that dramatic event happened.

Jerusalem was a Jebusite city when Joshua came to conquer Canaan. But after David became king, he conquered the city and made it his capitol. Here briefly are five periods in Jerusalem’s fascinating history.

The First Temple Period (1000 - 586 BC)

Solomon, David’s son, built a beautiful temple in Jerusalem. We can only imagine what it looked like. Its glory was greater than anything that had ever been built in the ancient world. And we read, “It came about when the priests came from the holy place, that the cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord” (1 Kings 8:10,11).

But after Solomon’s death the kingdom was split; Samaria became the capitol of the northern tribes. This city succumbed to the Assyrians in 722 B.C. Thousands of captives were taken to Assyria and never heard from again.

In 586 B.C., the Babylonians captured Jerusalem, the southern kingdom. After three sieges, Solomon’s beautiful temple was totally destroyed. Many Jews were carried off to Babylon where they lived for seventy years. When the Persians later overthrew Babylon, the Jews were allowed to return to their homeland. Jerusalem, however, lay in ruins.

The Second Temple Period (538 BC - 70 AD)

When the Jews returned from Babylon, a small temple was constructed where Solomon’s beautiful edifice stood. Many of the older men remembered Solomon’s temple and wept when they saw this smaller edifice. Zechariah the prophet encouraged them by asking, “For who has despised the day of small things?” (Zechariah 4:10). Incredibly, this smaller temple served the Jews for nearly five centuries.

In 19 B.C. the Roman ruler, King Herod proposed the idea of reconstructing a beautiful temple in Jerusalem. He promised the Jews that he would not tear down Zerubbabel’s temple, but build a new one over it. In effect, the building of the new one and the tearing down of the smaller one would happen simultaneously. Worship would not be interrupted. He also trained one thousand priests as masons so that no Gentiles would have to work in the sacred areas.

This beautiful structure was not yet finished when Jesus Christ was on earth. After cleansing the temple, the Jews asked that He give them a sign and Jesus answered, “`Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up.’ The Jews therefore said. `It took forty years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?’ But He was speaking of the temple of His body” (John 2:19-21). This temple had been under construction for forty-six years and was not yet completed. Though Herod was long since dead, work on the temple continued.

One day Jesus and His disciples were on the Mount of Olives overlooking the temple area. They noticed that it was adorned with beautiful stones and votive gifts. Christ explained, “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down” (Luke 21:5,6). Thus Christ predicted that the second temple would be totally destroyed, and destroyed it was.

In 70 A.D. the Emperor Titus came to put down a revolt in Jerusalem, so he surrounded the city of Jerusalem and captured it. He starved the city. And when people would sneak out at night to find food or water, they were crucified until rows and rows of crosses stood outside the city walls. Jerusalem was then destroyed and the temple taken apart stone by stone. Christ’s prophecy was meticulously fulfilled.

The Gentile Era (70 AD - 1948)

Recall that Christ said, ...”And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all of the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (Luke 21:24). Let’s take a tour of this Gentile period noting seven different eras that span nineteen centuries.

1. The Roman Period (70 - 33) The Romans brought their own people to repopulate the city.

2. The Byzantine Period (330 - 638) This is the period after Constantine (See chapter on Rome).

By the way, Constantine’s mother, Helena, made a trip to the holy land and established the various traditional sites regarding the life and ministry of Christ. Even today her identification of places such as the Church of the Holy Sepulcher are considered by some to be authentic. Various churches and fortifications can be seen dating back to the Byzantine Period with its unique architecture.

3. The First Muslim Period (638 - 1099) Mohammed began the religion of Islam and conquered the city of Jerusalem with the sword.

Today, Jerusalem is the third most holy site for this religion after Mecca and Medina. During this era, the Dome of the Rock was built, believed to be the place where Mohammed ascended into heaven. Just think, this beautiful building was constructed 1300 years ago and is still an architectural wonder!

4. The Crusader Period (1099-1187) Pope Urban II issued a decree saying that anyone who was willing to go to the holy land to liberate it from the Muslims would (1) be forgiven all sins: and (2) if unable to go, the same benefits would extend to those who contributed financially to send a substitute. Hordes of Europeans went to Jerusalem after the initial liberation. Today, crusader churches and walls still can be found throughout the land, all of them nearly a thousand years old.

5. The Later Muslim Period (1187-1517) Once again, the Muslims dominated the land of Israel for four long centuries.

6. The Turkish Period (1517-1917) The Ottoman Turks defeated the Muslims, and Suleiman ruled from Constantinople over the eastern wing of the Roman Empire. Under his reign, the present walls of the city of Jerusalem were built, nearly four hundred years ago.

7. The British Period (1917 - 1948) The British asked the United Nations to resolve the conflict surrounding the city and the land was given to the Jews in 1948. Jerusalem was divided up into four sectors - Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Armenian. But in the war of 1967, the city fell to Israeli hands and the territory all the way to the Jordan River (known as the West Bank) became a part of the Israeli State. Many people believe that this ended the domination of the Gentiles which Christ spoke about. Recall that He said, “Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled” (Luke 21:24). This explains why some people think that Christ’s return may be near.

Jerusalem In The Future

The fourth period is still future. The battle of Armageddon will spill over to Jerusalem. Zechariah writes, “For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished, and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city” (Zechariah 14:2). This then marks the great sorrow that will yet come to the city of Jerusalem as all the nations of the earth turn against the Jews.

After Armageddon, Jerusalem will experience exaltation. “Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem...” (14:3,4). Christ will come and defend His people; the Jews living at that time will look upon their Redeemer and recognize Him to be the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Then Jerusalem will enter what is know as the Millennial Kingdom, “...the law will go forth from Zion And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And He will judge between the nations, And will render decisions for many peoples; And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, And never again will they learn war” (Isaiah 2:3,4). After Judgment comes blessing.

The New Jerusalem

The fifth major era is when the earthly Jerusalem gives way to the New Jerusalem that comes from God out of heaven. This heavenly city is not so much an extension of the old, as it is a new substitute for all that has ever been known here on earth. “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband” (Revelation 21:1,2).

Later we read, “And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal clear jasper (vv. 10,11).

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city” (22:14).

“Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.”


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: jerusalem
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The final events of world history will culminate there with the glorious return of Jesus Christ to the Mount of Olives.

What about Jerusalem’s ancient past? In Genesis 22:2 the Lord asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on “Mount Moriah.” The only other passage where this name appears is 2 Chronicles 3:1 where we read, “Then Solomon began to build the house of the Lord in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah...” So, evidently Abraham was asked to sacrifice Isaac on Mount Moriah, which was the exact spot where the temple was later built in Jerusalem. When you look at the temple area today, remember this is where that dramatic event happened.


1 posted on 01/13/2011 3:36:46 PM PST by wmfights
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To: Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ...

Ping


2 posted on 01/13/2011 3:38:06 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

please read my post #439 in the great cities Rome thread, i don’t know how to copy and paste! ( maybe someone can do that for me )


3 posted on 01/13/2011 4:18:55 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wmfights

BTW - the Church is the city of God, the new Jerusalem!


4 posted on 01/13/2011 4:20:46 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Why are you trying to drag posts from one thread to another?

If no one is paying attention to your posts there might be a reason.

5 posted on 01/13/2011 4:22:15 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

i just posted it a few minutes ago and there are many people on these threads who are sincerely seeking truth and will be blessed by it. all who want to ignore are free to, of course. liberals love to squelch the truth and factual info, not conservatives. the truth shall set you free!


6 posted on 01/13/2011 4:25:12 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wmfights

“the ottoman turks defeated the muslims, er, the ottoman turks were muslim! maybe he meant arabs?


7 posted on 01/13/2011 4:28:13 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

>>the Church is the city of God, the new Jerusalem!<<

Where do you get that from? That can’t possibly be true.


8 posted on 01/13/2011 4:31:45 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: wmfights

The age of the Gentiles will not end until the 7 year Tribulation, when God deals specifically with only the Israelites again, begins.


9 posted on 01/13/2011 4:34:08 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

the OT contains types and shadows, the reality came in the NT. it means “city of peace” Jesus is our peace, thru His Sacrifice we are reconciled to the Father. Since the Church is the Body of Christ on earth, then The Church is the New Jerusalem!


10 posted on 01/13/2011 4:38:29 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: CynicalBear

God is not interested in geography, He is interested in souls! Jerusalem is the Church.....Babylon is the church of the unsaved!


11 posted on 01/13/2011 4:41:32 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: CynicalBear
The age of the Gentiles will not end until the 7 year Tribulation, when God deals specifically with only the Israelites again, begins.

You may disagree with me, but I believe the age of the Gentiles will end with the Rapture. Thereafter, God turns His attention on Israel.

12 posted on 01/13/2011 4:43:58 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

>> You may disagree with me, but I believe the age of the Gentiles will end with the Rapture.<<

I agree with you. That will also be the start of the Tribulation period.


13 posted on 01/13/2011 4:48:47 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
thank you and boatbums for your thoughtful reply.

everyone agrees that no one knows who wrote hebrews. why do you accept it as Scripture? no, not because reading it you can tell, that is impossible and you are not infallible. and not because another book of the bible says hebrews is canonical, because there isn’t one. no, the only truthful and historical answer is ( and it’s the same answer for all 27 books of the NT ) because the Catholic Church has received it by Sacred Tradition and therefore we know it must be true.

that’s a pretty bold statement, how do we KNOW it’s true, because Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. Many believe God protected the Scriptures for 2,000 and He has, but the instrument was His Body the Church. St Augustine stated that without the authority of the Church, he would not believe in Jesus. Many can not distinguish between man made tradition ( choosing 12/25 to celebrate Christmas ) and Sacred Tradition received from the Apostles ( infant baptism for example ) some will ask, how do we know a tradition is Sacred and Apostolic - the same way the Church knew which books of the Bible were canonical or not, was the Tradition practiced in every local church where an Apostle preached?

for example, infant baptism. all the local churches ( which together formed the Catholic Church ) were taught infant baptism by the Apostles and the Church continues to practice to this day. All the Church Fathers testify to this and there was no controversy in the early Church from other groups claiming it was a heresy. go ahead, search Church History and tell me when the Baptist Church of Antioch opposed infant baptism. you can’t, because this group was not around until the 16th century. tell me who started infant baptism if not the Apostles? what year? what groups said this is heresy? you can’t. when the Apostle

Thomas preached and converted gentiles to Christ, did the converts accept his oral teaching or did they wait for a letter from Paul or Peter? it was this Catholic Faith, deposited by the Apostles and guarded by the Holy Spirit, that was the only authority on earth that could absolutely declare as true these 27 books were Scripture and none more or less. this authority, received directly from Jesus, does not exist in any other group claiming to be the Church.

some who claim to follow the Bible only ( sola scriptura ) deny basic doctrines taught in Scripture, but confirmed by Sacred Tradition. i’ll name two: the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist and baptismal regeneration. these doctrines are clearly taught in Scripture, were believed by the Church for 2,000, yet some who claim to follow the Bible, deny these doctrines. forget about Mary, praying to saints, etc. if you don’t have these two doctrines correct, how can you claim to be a Christian.

do you know there isn’t any church you would have been able to join before the 16th century then? some claim, false doctrine was being brought in even in Paul’s time. correct, but the true Church was always there to combat it!! the false teaching never became Church doctrine because it wasn’t Catholic. deep down, the reason the Church gets so many people attacking it and misrepresenting it’s beliefs ( worshipping Mary, worshipping statutes, works based salvation, etc etc ) is deep down, a lot of people know what i am saying is true! i can’t imagine having to attack st ignatius, st augustine, st polycarp and all the other Church Fathers in order for my own interpretation of Scripture to be true.

i can’t imagine having to call other Christians from the first 16 centuries pagans and idolaters!! let God be true and every man a liar! i can’t imagine reading Church history, Bible history and not being able to find any group who hold doctrines that i do. that is a LDS belief, not a Christian one. so to wrap up, i thank the two individuals who tried to answer my question, i beleive they are sincere truth seeking people. the purpose of the question was to make those people who think the 27 book NT fell out of the sky or the Holy Spirit handed it to some 16th century reformers, think again!!

then maybe the next time you open the Bible, say a prayer thanking God for giving us the Catholic Church so we can know for sure what books are canonical and for faithfully hand copying these very same books, from the original books all the way down to the invention of the printing press. many monks devoted their life to just copying God’s Word!

[Chapter Five] Great Cities of the Bible: Rome-The Light Extinguished

January 13, 2011 7:14:03 PM EST · 439 of 439

one Lord one faith one baptism to GiovannaNicoletta

14 posted on 01/13/2011 4:49:26 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

thank you sir!


15 posted on 01/13/2011 4:51:03 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

>> God is not interested in geography, He is interested in souls! Jerusalem is the Church.....Babylon is the church of the unsaved!<<

The Scripture is very specific about geography in prophecy. To try to make Scripture into all metaphor causes all kinds of problems. The prophecy of Daniel, Ezekiel, Revelation, and others proves you wrong in your assumptions.

The new Temple, and the real city of Babylon and the city of Jerusalem will indeed play important roles in the future.


16 posted on 01/13/2011 4:53:57 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

The Temple is where God dwelt in the OT, today God ( in the person of Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit ) dwells in the believers or as we know it, The Church. This Temple is not built by hands, but by God. Man can make all the false temples he wants and as the world gets more wicked and the falling away from the Church becomes more pronounced, there well may be a new temple built. These are areas where Christians can disagree on, because these are not essential doctrines.


17 posted on 01/13/2011 5:00:34 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Your most welcome! Just remember the devil has foiled what your are pointing out thus by dividing us who really believe in Christ either protestant or catholic christian. Jesus meets us where we are in the true simple belief. The enemy really knows how to influence us at times to fear real christians( 1 John 4) because he fears even us.

With all the crazy history believers do not know the finer points at times.

18 posted on 01/13/2011 5:01:46 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

>>if you don’t have these two doctrines correct, how can you claim to be a Christian.<<

Because the answer to the question “what must we do to be saved” was “believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved-and your house”. The answer wasn’t followed by a list of add ons. To believe anything additional is needed for salvation is to inject legalism.


19 posted on 01/13/2011 5:02:25 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
That will also be the start of the Tribulation period.

What I hadn't really thought about is how many key events, or more aptly world changing events, occur at this one site called the Temple Mount. Abraham taking Issac to sacrifice him to God, the first Temple built by Soloman, the second Temple, the rebuilt Temple of the Tribulation, the return of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, and finally the descent of New Jerusalem all at this site.

20 posted on 01/13/2011 5:05:36 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: CynicalBear

I help him repost an old reply does not mean i believe everything stated direct your concern to
one Lord one faith one baptism.


21 posted on 01/13/2011 5:10:37 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: CynicalBear

how else are your sins forgiven if they are not washed away in baptism? how else are you added to the Church, the Body of Christ, if you are not baptized into it? this is a perfect example of twisting a Scripture here or there and starting a new denomination on it. no one, i repeat, no one, denied baptismal regeneration before the 16th century. the nicene creed states “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins” what kind of pillar of truth do we have if no one understood baptism until the 16th century?


22 posted on 01/13/2011 5:10:56 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: johngrace

thanks again!


23 posted on 01/13/2011 5:11:52 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wmfights

Agreed, a truly central focus of much of Scripture and prophecy. Still there are those who will discount the importance of Israel in God’s plans for the future. That is to discount the very words of God and His prophets.


24 posted on 01/13/2011 5:12:39 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

if you truly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you will have your sins washed away just as Saul did in Acts 22.


25 posted on 01/13/2011 5:14:33 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: johngrace

Whoa! Don’t take it personally. I was responding to the words I quoted. I didn’t infer that you wrote them, in fact I realized that you didn’t but they were included in your post so it was reasonable to reply to the post that contained the words.


26 posted on 01/13/2011 5:15:47 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Still there are those who will discount the importance of Israel in God’s plans for the future. That is to discount the very words of God and His prophets.

You're right.

I go back and forth with our Evangelical Brothers and Sisters that are in Reformed churches about this. The Preterist and Amill views are strong among them. I think Romans 10, 11, 12 makes it clear God is not done with Israel.

27 posted on 01/13/2011 5:19:34 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: CynicalBear
I believe in the importance of Israel in God's plan in the present and future. You ever read this site.

http://www.johnmcternan.name/

28 posted on 01/13/2011 5:19:53 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

http://www.johnmcternan.name/


29 posted on 01/13/2011 5:20:37 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: CynicalBear
LOL! I did not take personal. Did you ever check out John Mcternan.

I once watched a video that showed when the United States dissed or respect Israel he would show the results. Interesting!

30 posted on 01/13/2011 5:28:20 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I . . . He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.” (Matthew 3:11).

In Mark 10:38,39 Jesus refers to His crucifixion and calls it His “baptism” and says that the disciples will be baptized with the same “baptism”.

Mark 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

When you accept and proclaim Jesus as your Lord and Savior you are baptized in the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is only a symbol and has no legal function of salvation.

To claim anything more then the death and resurrection of Jesus is needed for salvation is to deny the perfection, completeness and totality of His sacrifice once and for all for our sins.


31 posted on 01/13/2011 5:39:01 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: johngrace

Hadn’t seen that site before. I just did a cursory look and it has some interesting stuff! Thanks.


32 posted on 01/13/2011 5:43:34 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: johngrace

“all the nations battling against Israel”, does not mean literal Israel! all the nations, refers to the unsaved, Israel is the Church. Towards the end of the world ( 2011? ), there will be a great falling away ( apostasy ) of the Church. I was born in 1959, and have witnessed this falling away, the chrches of europe are dead, not much better in the usa, south america is gone, the social gospel and marxism have replaced Christ, sin is not preached therefore there is no need for a Savior! because they lost their first love, the Church is being overcome by the world, until at the very end ,( the tribulation period ) the two witnesses ( the Church ) will be killed and the world will rejoice ( the Pope or Bishops will probably deny Jesus as the only way to salvation ) there will be a relatively small remnant that will keep the Faith and then Jesus will return to the Mount of Olives in triumph!! The fig tree is literal Israel and since it is in bloom, we know He is at the door, stay awake!


33 posted on 01/13/2011 5:44:00 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wmfights

>> I go back and forth with our Evangelical Brothers and Sisters that are in Reformed churches about this.<<

I do to. I grew up in the Reformed Church and it pains me to see many of them deny true prophecy. I have seen not only Preterism but also Dominionism present.


34 posted on 01/13/2011 5:50:44 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

i appreciate your thoughtful reply and i can post a number of verses that indicate baptism is how your sins are washed away. how do we know who is right? well, Jesus founded a Church and He gave it authority to TEACH. the Church has taught baptismal regeneration for 2,000 years. Please cynicalbear, show me from history any group that believed as you did before the 16th century! When Arius was denying Jesus’s divinity, where was your Church that taught what you posted? the Bishops at Nicea crafted a Creed that you can’t hold to. think about what you are saying! the pillar of truth was apostate from 95ad until the 16th century! if we don’t have baptism right, we don’t have the Scriptures right!


35 posted on 01/13/2011 5:51:57 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

I believe it is the Church and Israel at times especially since 1947 The birth of Israel. That’s in my humble opinion. Remember what happens in the last days. The miracle of modern Israel!


36 posted on 01/13/2011 5:55:09 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism; CynicalBear

http://www.defendproclaimthefaith.org/obadiah_15.html


37 posted on 01/13/2011 5:59:56 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

i believe the fig tree ( Israel ) is a sign to the believer the end is near. a bigger sign, is the startling falling away we are seeing from the Church!


38 posted on 01/13/2011 6:00:54 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

another sign is the immorality we see all around, especially the rise and acceptance of homosexuality. “as in the days of Noah....”


39 posted on 01/13/2011 6:02:48 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

True.


40 posted on 01/13/2011 6:08:49 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
well, Jesus founded a Church and He gave it authority to TEACH.[...]

That much is true.

[...] the Church has taught baptismal regeneration for 2,000 years.

That much... not necessarily.

think about what you are saying! the pillar of truth was apostate from 95ad until the 16th century!

That presumes the Roman church was indeed the "Pillar of Truth." That cannot be true.

41 posted on 01/13/2011 6:09:44 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
“all the nations battling against Israel”, does not mean literal Israel!

Oh, but it does! You seem to forget our place. Gentiles were grafted into the Branch. The covenants belong to Israel.

42 posted on 01/13/2011 6:13:24 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: wmfights; 444Flyer; Armaggedon; Yehuda; Jeremiah Jr
Ariel is an allegory for Jerusalem which is an allegory for America.

Ariel has been put under a spirit of deep sleep - a permanent vegetative state.

So above, so below.

43 posted on 01/13/2011 6:17:34 PM PST by Ezekiel (The Obama-nation began with the Inauguration of Desolation.)
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To: roamer_1

“that much...not necessarily” ok, if that’s true, you sholud be able to provide some names of leaders of this church before the 16th century that didn’t teach baptismal regeneration. thanks!


44 posted on 01/13/2011 6:18:55 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: roamer_1

Abraham is our father in faith. the promise is to all believers, not the blood decendants. the jewish nation was a type of the church in the OT, now that Jesus has come, the promise is for Jew or Gentile, if they will believe in Christ!


45 posted on 01/13/2011 6:21:47 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: CynicalBear
I have seen not only Preterism but also Dominionism present.

I'm not familiar with Dominionism. Can you explain?

46 posted on 01/13/2011 6:32:11 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

>>if we don’t have baptism right, we don’t have the Scriptures right!<<

I am not saying baptism isn’t necessary as I wouldn’t say proclamation of our belief in Jesus isn’t necessary. Remember “believe in your heart and proclaim with your mouth”. If we don’t have the outward signs of an inward change it probably didn’t happen inwardly. Just as “proclaiming” is an acknowledgment so is water baptism. The actual “saving” and “washing of sins by the Holy Spirit” has already happened.

We must be careful that we don’t insinuate that by “doing something” we earn part of our salvation. Even the outward practice of Baptism can be a sinful practice if it is only done for show with no inward repentance and submission to Jesus as Lord and Savior just as their will be some who say Lord Lord will not be saved.


47 posted on 01/13/2011 6:36:45 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: wmfights

>>I’m not familiar with Dominionism. Can you explain?<<

Dominionism is the belief that the Church must, through evangelism, convert the entire world and that the world must be under Biblical law before the return of Jesus can happen. In other words, the Church must have Dominion over the entire world before the second coming of Jesus.


48 posted on 01/13/2011 6:42:54 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Abraham is our father in faith. the promise is to all believers, not the blood decendants.

TRUE. But the Covenants belong to the blood descendants. We are adopted. If YHWH will not keep His promise to the blood children, what makes you believe He will keep His word to you?

the jewish nation was a type of the church in the OT, now that Jesus has come, the promise is for Jew or Gentile, if they will believe in Christ!

So all the promises - Unequivocal declarations - made to Israel are just null and void?

In another post, you said something to the effect that the Roman church MUST be the true Church because of its history - that God would not have let an apostate church stand for all those years... Now, at the same time, you seem to be just FINE with that exact same circumstance happening to Israel.

49 posted on 01/13/2011 6:47:00 PM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit)
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To: CynicalBear

“we must be careful that we don’t insinuate that by “doing something” we earn part of our salvation” Amen, you are absolutely correct, salvation is by grace alone, no one can do anything to earn it, it is a gift! i know you agree. the question is is baptism a “work” it is not, no one can baptize themself, it is not a work. the Church ( the Body of Christ on earth ) with the authority of Jesus passed down for 2,000 by laying on of hands ( apostolic succession ) baptizes individuals adding them to the Church. what clearer picture of this is infant baptism. the baby can’t do any work, yet we know from the Apostolic Church Fathers, the Apostles baptized infants. this is the orthodox Christian belief for 2,000 years. you seem to believe by your post that one earns salvation by having inward repentence and submitting to Jesus as Lord and Savior, i submit that is not the case.


50 posted on 01/13/2011 6:48:04 PM PST by one Lord one faith one baptism
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