Skip to comments.The Scriptures Teach and Testify of Jesus Christ (Mormon - Posted by an actual Mormon)
Posted on 01/15/2011 8:29:05 PM PST by Paragon Defender
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"I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? ... God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret." (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
"The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us ..." (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).
"Those who gain exaltation, having thus enjoyed the fullness of eternal progression, become like God." It should be realized that God is not progressing in knowledge, truth, virtue, wisdom, or any of the attributes of godliness. He has already gained these things in their fullness. But he is progressing in the sense that his creations increase, his dominions expand, his spirit offspring multiply, and more kingdoms are added to his domains." (Elder Bruce McConkie, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 5-10.)
The above quotes are teaching what amounts to blasphemies. These are demonically inspired lies taught by the founders of Mormonism. We do not expect the blind lost in Mormonism to comprehend why the following is blasphemy, but any actual Christian sees it instantly when reading the following quotes from Mormon leadership:
What Mormon Leaders have said regarding Whom Jesus is and salvation:
"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321 )
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god ..." (Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88)
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]" - (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190)
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgressionif you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155)
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation," (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670)
Mormonism is not Christianity. It is a demonically inspired lie meant to divert souls to Hell by pretending to have truth from God, but really only having blasphemies from Hell's residents.
It is a lie from the demons of hell to claim that the Mormonic jesus and the Jesus Christ of the Bible are the same.
Spoken like a true brainwashed anti-Mormon cult member.
We only have one Savior Jesus Christ and he is the same being mentioned in both the Holy Bible and The Book of Mormon. We disagree on his true nature. So be it.
Have a great Sunday!
Your “issues” you try to bring up with your mish-mash of quotes are all addressed at the links I provide. They are not issues at all and are easily found with little effort.
BTW, PD, the man who wrote the original story from which your conman peepstone sexual predator of married women, Joseph Smith plagarized his b of m was a Christian minister with at least some level of scholarship regarding the Bible that your conman divination false prophet never attained. So it is not surprising that the b of m resembles the Bible and has lengthy passages quoted from the King James Bible. But Smith obviously lifted passages from the King James Bible rather than translating from the oiriginal book of Isaiah--for instance, because Smith included words not even invented at the time Isaiah was written in 600 BC. But we understand your need to deceive in order to defend the lies and blasphemies that are hallmark of Mormonism.
It sure would be easier to expose the false teaching of the LDS, if all those who claim faith in Jesus would read John 17 and follow Jesus as Lord. If anyone is free to start a church and not listen to the One Church commissioned by Jesus to teach and baptize, why couldn’t Joseph Smith start one, the more the merrier!
Do you recommend the 1830 version of the BOM or the 1962 version, after the changes?
Do you recommend the original 1835 Book of Commandments or todays version of the Doctrine & Covenants, after the original Section 101 was taken out and Section 132 put in?
Could you provide the original Greek word which was translated into the English word Telestial, and provide the Websters definition for the word?
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Let me know if you get an answer rather than just links.
Well, I sure didn't have to read far to find a fatal flaw. No, make that a lie.
The CHRISTIAN scriptures teach that we must become ADOPTED children of God. Your false "scriptures" sure sound all pretty and nice. No wonder so many people get sucked into believing them. It's like the child molester with a puppy and candy - how could something good be so deadly wrong?
Guess who my tagline is a direct quote from?
blah blah blah you have nothing new, nothing of substance. Just the same old tired, worn out and addressed non-issues. All addressed a thousand times. Easily found at the links provided.
Not sure if this is the place for that. But here goes:
The Bible clearly describes Jesus Christ as eternal, without beginning or end. Does the official Mormon doctrine teach this nature of Christ?
The Gospels clearly say that Jesus took on flesh by the action of the Holy Spirit “overshadowing” Mary, a supernatural act.
The Bible says that Jesus was born in the relatively small town of Bethlehem. Where does Mormon teaching say Jesus was born?
Does Mormon doctrine teach that Jesus was single throughout his life?
What does Mormon theology teach about Jesus sacrifice on the cross?
The reason I ask is - I have some personal knowledge, baptized into the LDS church in the late 80’s. It as after some rather dis-settling things began to stick out in what I was hearing, reading, and being taught. Things that just didn’t make sense to a plain reading of the Bible. And then, questions asked did not get open answers.
Too many differences in what I came to see as the Mormon view of Jesus as compared to what I had heard and read all my life. And after truly accepting Jesus Christ, I have found even more inconsistencies. I just cannot reconcile the Jesus I was taught as a Mormon with the Scriptural Jesus of the Bible.
Sorry. I will not play your very obvious game.
Your classic list of questions reads right out of an anti-Mormon propagandist handbook. Your verbage is typical of an anti-Mormon propagandist feigning sincere interest. It is a typical mix of misleading and strawman comments/questions all of which are addressed at the links I have provided many times. All are made up or non-existant issues.
There is only one Jesus Christ who is spoken of in both the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon.
Yet what is the answer. There is no “strawman” argument. And I indeed was LDS, and faced these questions - and never got satisfactory answers from the Bishopric, nor from the missionary friends of mine. This with the hyper-legalistic regulated life made me question, and eventually leave the LDS.
My first post on this thread actually called into question if this was the “appropriate place” for this discussion.
You many not believe me - but I struggle for quite a while, with no solid answers given. Since that time, My spiritual “journey” has led me to a personal relationship with the Jesus Christ of this discussion. My walk eventually took me to full-time ministry and I just completed my Seminary work. The more I have learned of the Biblical Jesus, the more I realized that my previous understanding (both from growing up in the Episcopal Church, and my time as a Mormon) was off-base.
And please don’t suggest that my questions are from some discussion or slam found in my seminary classes, as Mormonism actually was not a topic of any class I was involved in.
I just posted the most prominent questions/differences. There are quite a few other doctrinal/theological differences. I would be more than happy to continue discussions off this thread, if you wish. Or we can just leave it alone.
ALL: Please don't drink the koolaid of Mormonism's definition of "eternal life." It departs from how Jesus clearly defined it in John 17:3: "And this is eternal life, that you know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent."
We know Jesus NOW. It's a relationship NOW! IOW, eternal life begins this side of heaven & continues there!
The Mormon definition of "eternal life" is that...
(a) It's ALWAYS future.
(b) It's reserved for married temple Mormons in good standing with the Church!
(c) It equals becoming a god of your own planet/star!
Don't just take my word for it...do what PD says...look at these Mormon leaders' & Mormon church quotations to confirm it!
Eternal life is a term which always means exaltation, when used in the Scriptures (John 3:15; Romans 6:23; 1 John 1:2; 2 Nephi 2:28; D&C 5:22; 18:8; 131:5; 138:51; Moses 1:39). (David R. Ridges, Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier, p. 88)
Sub-title: WHAT IS EXALTATION? Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life that God lives. (Older 1970s version, p. 289)
Exaltation is a synonym for eternal life. Exaltation comes only to those who inherit the highest degree within the celestial kingdom it consists in the continuation of the family unit throughout eternity; it is the type of life that is lived by our Heavenly Father. (Daniel H. Ludlow, A Companion to Your Study of the Doctrines and Covenants, 2:85)
Eternal life is living with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ in the celestial kingdom. This blessingwhich is also called exaltationcomes only to those who keep the commandments and make the necessary covenants. (Preparing for Exaltation Teachers Manual, 1998, p. 4)
Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge, and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation. (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 302)
Eternal life In fact means exaltation. He who receives the greatest portion of eternal life becomes a God. (Milton R. Hunter, an LDS Seventy, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 11)
Exaltation means GODHOOD, creatorship. As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 53)
Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in Gods presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection. (Encylopedia of Mormonism, 2:479)
resurrection alone does not qualify us for eternal life in the presence of God we need His grace to purify and perfect us after all we can do (2 Nephi 25:23). (Truth to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, Intellectual Reserve, 2004, p. 77) <>P>Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life (Lds apostle Robert D. Hales, Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets, Ensign (Conference Edition), Nov. 1985, p. 20)
Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift. Eternal life, or exaltation, is to inherit a place in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, where we will live in Gods presence and continue as families. (same source, p. 52)
immortality is to live forever in the resurrected state, and by the grace of God all men will gain this unending continuance of life. But ONLY THOSE who obey the fullness of the gospel law will inherit eternal life. (D&C 29:43-44) it is the kind, status, type, and quality of life that God himself enjoys. Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation; they are sons of God, joint-heirs with Christ they overcome all things, have all power, and receive the fullness of the Father. They are gods. McConkie, p. 237, 1979 ed.
[Of course, McConkie cites D&C 29:43-44 but these verses say no such thing v. 43 actually says that immortality unto eternal life is given to as many as would BELIEVE shifty McConkie trying to pull a rabbit when no hat exists]
Eternal life is a higher state than immortality alone and means to live forever in a resurrected condition in the presence of God, and to become like God Eternal life is exaltation into the type and quality of life that God lives. Receiving eternal life is conditional, predicated upon obedience to the fullness of gospel law and ordinances (D&C 29:43-44; 130:20-21). It requires voluntary obedience to all of the ordinances and principles of the gospel continuing through the covenants of the Endowment and marriage in the temple (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 2:677-678)
The gift of eternal life is conditional. In order to qualify, one must deny oneself of ungodliness and honor the ordinance and covenants of the temple. (Lds apostle Russell M. Nelson, Divine Love, Ensign, Feb. 2003, p. 24
Mormons believe that only their Melchizedek priests (D&C 76:57) are the ones eligible for dwell[ing] in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever. (D&C 76:62)
Other 'Interchangeable' references of 'eternal life'=exaltation=godhood:
Eternal life, known also as salvation or exaltation, comes to those who believe and seek to remain true to the gospel covenant. (BYU prof Robert L. Millet, The Mormon Faith: Understanding Restored Christianity, p. 52)
Do you desire to enter into the celestial Kingdom and receive eternal life? Then be willing to keep all the commandments the Lord may give you (Lds prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, The Way to Perfection, p. 207)
Encyclopedia of Mormonism: Exaltation is the greatest of all the gifts and attainments possible. It is available only in the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom and is reserved for members of the Church of the Firstborn. This exalted status, called eternal life, is available to be received by a man and a wife. It means not only living in Gods presence, but receiving power to do as God does, including the power to bear children after the resurrection. (Encylopedia of Mormonism, 2:479)
“The Scriptures Teach and Testify of Jesus Christ (Mormon - Posted by an actual Mormon)”
Shouldn’t this be labeled...
“The Scriptures Teach and Testify of Jesus Christ (Mormon - Cultic Vanity)
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