Skip to comments.A World In Revolt...Psalm 2
Posted on 01/21/2011 3:01:25 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.(Psalm 2:1-3)
The first two Psalms go together. Perhaps it isnt immediately apparent, because in some ways they are completely different, but I believe the Holy Spirit led those who placed them side by side as the opening of the Psalter.
Psalm one examines a lone individual, a God worshipping , scripture meditating disciple who has made a serious break with the thinking of his day. He is separate internally, he seeks other counsel than the prevailing opinions, he loves to be constantly re-oriented in his soul to the Word of God.
He is described in the singular, whereas the ungodly, the sinners and the scornful are pluralities in the Psalm. The assumption is that it is their worldview which is the prevailing thinking of the day. This one stands alone, and nourishes himself by a different fountain than everyone else.
The second Psalm, on the other hand, looks at the whole world. The entire planet is in a state of revolt, led by its political, educational, and religious leaders. The nations of the world are in turmoil, and their populations are gripped by an empty illusion,( A vain imagination). Traditional restraints are cast into the wind, a kind of social revolution is taking place, led by the elite on all levels.
I believe that though this Psalm has been fulfilled in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, involving the collusion of Pilate, Herod, and the corrupt high priests of Israel, (Acts 4:25-28) there is a further eschatological application of it as well. This Psalm is a prophecy of the geopolitical and cultural reality at the time of the coming of the Lord in Glory to Judge the world in Righteousness.
The nations are definitely in an uproar, indeed, the heathen Rage. Consider our times,
China rages, for it is awakening after two centuries of humiliating subjugation by western colonial powers,(the opium wars, etc), the harrowing World War 2 experience, a massive social upheaval , Communist revolution and the pragmatic decision to Capitalize their economy while remaining a totalitarian communist entity .
The perception is that it is time for China to take her place as a world power, increasing her presence in the competition for African resources, oil and gas, military dominance of the Pacific region , etc. Chinas generals are bellicose in their pronouncements about their ability to reach cities like Los Angeles with their missiles. To the long remembering Chinese, there are definite scores to settle.
Russia also rages. The desire for the former glory as a world superpower has catapulted former KGB operative Vladimir Putin into a popular icon in Russia. The Russians have been newly empowered by oil money, they are re-arming at an alarming rate, and the brutal crushing of Georgia, in the final days of the Bush presidency was reminiscent of the worst of the old Soviet suppressions.
Russia also sees itself as a player in the middle east, arming Syria ,Hezbollah controlled Lebanon, and aiding Nuclear Iran in spite of world sanctions.
The Muslim World rages also, due to several converging factors. The rebirth of the State of Israel, and its successful repelling of invasions by combined Muslim armies has humiliated and inflamed the Moslem world. The existence of Israel, a modern, secular, western democracy in the very heart of the middle east is an affront to Muslim pride.
To make matters worse, the secularizing trend that swept the Moslem world after World War 1 has been seen as a failure in the Ummah, and perhaps even the cause of Islams failure to eradicate te Jewish state. As a consequence, Islamism has swept the world,in the form of Wahhabism, a puritanical Sunni version of Islam. It has been fueled by oceans of oil money , pouring out of Saudi Arabia, literally radicalizing once complacent Muslims from Indonesia to California, causing havoc.
When a Christian is revived and becomes more like Jesus, good things happen, people are helped, healed, encouraged, virtue is promoted and everyone benefits. When Muslims are revived to become more like the pirate and murderer that they consider to be the perfect man, bad things, terrible and even violent things happen.
The Nations of the World are in an uproar, Africa is turbulent, India and Pakistan are both Nuclear, and hate each other with a passion, Shia Islam has conducted the first successful modern Jihad, with the help of the Jimmy Carter administration, pulling the rug out from underneath the Shah of Iran. Europe is literally dying, due to birth control and abortion, and the Western democracies are going broke, thanks to the failed Socialistic policies that became widespread after World War 2.
This is the setting of Psalm 2, where the attention is turned to the leaders, the Kings of the earth, and the rulers.
There's still time.
Not gonna happen..It would be like asking me to stop loving and turn my back on my child and parents....
Funny that you would want him to.....
You cannot remove Love and Joy from a person’s heart, when you do, you get a world we seem to be living in...
Violence, War and Mahem...
Just thought you might have wanted to return to YHWH, that’s all. But, He already knows who belongs to Him and he won’t force you to return.
Great point by point posting....well done again...magritte
Thanks Netizen...a great summary for my new-found faith...magritte
I am happy where I am at....As you are..That is what counts...
Nice chatting with you as well...
Thanks...I always try anyways! ;o)
I dont hate him. Not at all. There are obviously things he taught that are helpful to mankind. Some that are not helpful. The bottom line is that he did not do the things required of messiah to do....hence the second coming. No man can be crowned King Messiah until AFTER he has performed all the required tasks. It is you my FRiend that is putting yourself in peril by worshipping a man. Deut 4:15
It is not a problem. It isnt as if G-d didnt know that there would be exile!
Hosea 3:For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or household gods. 5 Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.
There are other exile passages as well. The point is, G-d knows. And G-d will return the Jewish people to their land. (occuring now) The Temple will be rebuilt. Sin sacrifices are returning. The preisthood is returning. The law is taught by the Priests. And this time, only the physically AND spiritually circumsized will be allowed in the Temple grounds. All of this is in Ezek 44.
Simple. A) When I see Psalm 2....I know where Pastor Randles is headed. I am well versed in passages in the JEWISH scriptures that Christians like to say are about Jesus. So I know where he is headed. He will get to the point in Psalm 2:7 He said to me, You are my son; today I have become your father.
That is not about Jesus it is about David...just like G-d calls Solomon His son and Israel his son.
Then he will bring up Psalm 2:12 Kiss the son....In the Hebrew it is not even close to that.
So, I am here to defend G-ds word from mistranslation. I would argue that most Christians have no clue that their bibles are tampered with.
Hey blasater1960, I’ve been reading this thread and have a few questions which I would like to see your take on.
1. You state, correctly, that Jesus was not the first person resurrected and that others before were resurrected. My understanding is that all of these resurrections were by a direct action on God’s part. In other words, only God can resurrect a person from the dead. If that’s the case, how was Jesus resurrected since he was sealed inside a tomb and, if He was ungodly as you and others here have alleged, why would God raise Him from the dead, seeing that this action would cause confusion among the faithful.
2. We are told over and over and over that the Bible we use is incorrectly translated, yet the very first Christians were Jews who accepted that Jesus was the Christ after being taught this from passages in the OT. I understand that the people in these times would not have had the education that we benefit from today, but I also understand that a Jew from the time of Jesus would have been very leery of any act that would have excluded them from life centered around the Temple or Synagog, as it was the center of Jewish life at that time. How do you explain this willingness to give up everything that they had to follow Jesus if there were any doubt at all about His claims?
3. You (at least I believe it was you, I may be mistaken) earlier made the claim that YHWH is not a man and the idea of a Triune Godhead is a pagan idea imported from Greco-Roman sources. I disagree, but would like to see how you answer this question. We, as Christians, believe that there is a single God, with seperate yet intertwined portions. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. We believe that this Triune nature is reflected in our own nature as men in that we have a Mind that guides and rules us (much like God the Father), a Body that exists on this world (much like God the Son) and a Soul that, being given to us by God Himself, is always wanting to be reunited with our Creator and desires to do His will (much like God the Holy Spirit). Even in the OT, we see YHWH the Creator, His Holy Spirit and the Angel of the Lord (Exodus 3:4 calls Him ‘elohiym) who is listed as God and treated as such, but not YHWH. How is that not the same thing that we, as Christians, have been saying all along?
So ? are you in the future with the Anti-Christ going to persecute Christians because you hate them ?
Woah, you’re out of line on that last one. While I don’t agree with Blasalter on this, I do know that he’s been unfailingly kind and reasonable in all my dealings with him. Your last post was, frankly, childish and immature and we don’t need that in this thread.
Yes, you’re the one who’s out of line. Blasater is a known Jew, do you really expect him to act like Christ really is who He said He is?
You’re acting like those who aren’t Christians should act like they are and then are offended when they won’t. The reason that it’s not out of line is because that is what he honestly believes. He’s not a troll, he’s Jewish and deserves your respect, even if you don’t think so.
Even St. Paul stated that he’d gladly give up his salvation if it would mean the salvation of the Jews. If he was willing to go to that length to see them realize who Christ is, why are you antagonizing their descendants?
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1) In other words, only God can resurrect a person from the dead. If thats the case, how was Jesus resurrected since he was sealed inside a tomb and, if He was ungodly as you and others here have alleged, why would God raise Him from the dead...
Yes, resurrections are of G-d. G-d is omnipresent and doesnt have to be in a physical form (he cant be physical per Deut 4:15)in order to resurrect someone. When the resurrection took place by Elijah, for example, G-d was not there in the flesh, so G-d need not be there in the flesh for Jesus to resurrect. In fact, at the end of time and all the righteous resurrect, there is no personage there commanding it to happen. So, there is no problem with G-d raising Jesus from a sealed tomb. My point however was not to prove that his resurrection is doable, the point is the resurrection in and of itself is not a unique event. And that faith in a resurrected personage is NEVER a scriptural command by G-d. There is not one scripture in all the Jewish Tanakh that says: When the messiah is resurrected, you will have faith in it or else. Faith is NEVER mentioned because it will take zero faith when the messiah comes. The entire world will see the fulfillment of exhaustive and exclusive messianic tasks, that no one but messiah ben David can fulfill.
The question, did Jesus ressurect? He could have...I dont know. But it is not part of messianic fulfillment so I need not answer that question.
2) How do you explain this willingness to give up everything that they had to follow Jesus if there were any doubt at all about His claims?
Well, there is a very simple answer to that. A) They were uneducated and couldnt read the Torah or Tanakh. They relied on miracles rather than messianic requirements stated in the Tanakh. B) I believe that they expected Jesus to return quickly with the Heavenly Host and rout the Romans. For Example:
Matt 16:28"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." .....So they are thinking that he will return shortly, within that generation before they all die. The problem is, that he didnt return before they all died with his kingdom. So, how do the gospel writers solve that problem? They attribute that statement to the transfiguration.
Matt 17: 1 Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light.
Six days later? (8 in other gospels) Some would not taste death? Then who did taste death in those six days? And where was the kingdom and the power? Only Moses and Elijah appear? Thats it? Then Peter makes the three equivalent?
So, at any rate. Between the miracles and the promises of imminent return, it is easy to see how they would believe it. Look at the crazy mormon story. Joseph Smiths diciples believed his story and many of them were chased accross the US and even killed for their silly belief. And muzzies who blow themselves up by the thousands for a lie of 72 virgins....
3)You (at least I believe it was you, I may be mistaken) earlier made the claim that YHWH is not a man and the idea of a Triune Godhead is a pagan idea imported from Greco-Roman sources.
That was probably me....I do agree with that statement.
Even in the OT, we see YHWH the Creator, His Holy Spirit and the Angel of the Lord (Exodus 3:4 calls Him elohiym) who is listed as God and treated as such, but not YHWH. How is that not the same thing that we, as Christians, have been saying all along?
Okay, in Exodus 3:2, the angel of YHWH appears.....First notice that it is not G-d in the flesh but an angel, probably in the form of a man. (Like Gen 18).
Exodus 3:4, When YHWH say Moses approaching, Elohim called to him.......Here, YHWH are equivalent. It is not uncommon for there to be a name change from the holiest name YHWH, to Elohim or sometimes El. It does not involve a change in personage within the godhead. For example, Is 45 has the YHWH 23 times. Ans several times, like 45:3,5,18, you see YHWH directly connected to Elohim, when G-d is proclaiming His singular unity. From the Blue Letter Bible:
45:3 And I will give 5414 thee the treasures 214 of darkness 2822, and hidden riches 4301 of secret places 4565, that thou mayest know 3045 that I, the LORD 3068, which call 7121 [thee] by thy name 8034, [am] the God 430 of Israel 3478...........YHWH is 3068.......Elohim is 430.
45:5 I [am] the LORD 3068, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God 430 beside 2108 me: I girded 247 thee, though thou hast not known 3045 me:
45:18 For thus saith 559 the LORD 3068 that created 1254 the heavens 8064; God 430 himself that formed 3335 the earth 776 and made 6213 it; he hath established 3559 it, he created 1254 it not in vain 8414, he formed 3335 it to be inhabited 3427 : I [am] the LORD 3068; and [there is] none else.
Isa 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses5707, saith5002 the LORD3068, and my servant5650 whom I have chosen977 : that ye may know3045 and believe539 me, and understand995 that I [am] he: before6440 me there was no God410 formed3335 , neither shall there be after310 me.......God 410 is El.
It is interesting to note that both El and Elohim can be used to describe non-gods. Moses is called Elohim...judges are called Elohim...Idols can be called El. But when used with the unspeakable name of G-d, YHWH, the meaning is clear. One G-d, One Creator as in 45:18 YHWH and Elohim are both the Creator and at the end of the verse, I am YHWH and there is none else.
Finally a person have to account for Deut 4:15, where G-d clearly states His non-physicality
"So watch yourselves carefully, since you did not see any form on the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb from the midst of the fire,........Watch yourselves carefully? Since you saw NO form! Why is this important? Because NEVER wants us to worship a form of any kind (next verse) Because when man worships a form...it is then idolatry. This is the whole beauty behind the revelation of YHWH! All other religions have some type of image or personage to worship. NOT WITH HaShem! (YHWH) A singular unity G-d with no image!
You crack me up. I am not siding with anyone who is not exactly per the Torah and the Tanakh(OT). I find it interesting that your anti-christ is a man that people will worship. A Jew will NEVER worship a man. EVER. We worship the unseen G-d YHWH and ONLY YHWH. And persecute Christians? Aah no. The Jews are never prophesied to persecute ANYONE nor do Jews proselytize for converts.
Actually, there seems to be some confusion on American Constitutionalist’s part as to what will happen during the End of Days, or the Time of Jacob’s trouble as it’s also known.
The very idea that Jews, aka the descendants of Jacob, would turn against God and side with the Anti-Christ, aka the Son of Perdition, is laughable at best. Every time that the Son of Perdition has shown up (and to my knowledge, he’s shown up at least twice before and possibly even more times than that), the Jews have rejected him and held to YHWH. This time will be no different.
I may disagree with my Jewish brothers, I may think they’re blind to continue to look for the One who’s already came, but under no circumstances will I ever side against them. Unlike every other nation and race on this earth, the Jews have not only a promise of a future full redemption but a Husband who is jealous of Her and never slumbers or sleeps. I stand with the Jews, come hell or high water.
Thats awesome...very well said.
It does seem likely, given the backdrop of Israel and the Middle East, that those who would actually worship a man anti-Christ would come from among Christians (who would likely mistake the anti-Christ for Jesus).
If you want to have a christian Caucus thread, designate is as so...keep in mind, Psalms are part of the Jewish Tanankh, and merely co-opted by christians to try to explain their belief in Jesus...magritte
If the thread had been labeled "ecumenical" then anyone could still post, but antagonism would not be allowed.
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Truthfully, I suspect that you’re right. After all, we’re told that before that day comes, there will be a great falling away and the love of many will grow cold. I could very easily see this being turned against Israel and the Jews.
My FRiend, it is called a polemic. Christian Jewish polemics have been going on since Jesus. I like Pastor Randles, we have had lively but honest discussions for some time. Often times I end up in dialog with others on his thread. I realize it may seem like dishonor to you but it is just a discussion among FRiends. I could claim dishonor as well but I dont see it that way. Had Pastor Randles given it a Christian Caucus status I would never offered an opinion.
I need to straighten you out a little on some of what you said here.
Yes, God is going to send a strong delusion. We’re not sure what it will be yet, but we know that it’s so strong that even the elect are likely to stumble if they’re not rooted deeply in the faith.
Yes, the AC is against Christ. Yes, he will set himself up as the Messiah, just like he did before.
Yes, the AC will perform miracles and deceive many.
The text does not, however, say that the AC will persecute Christians. The text that you’re referring to is Daniel 11 and is referring to how the AC persecutes those who “...do know their God...”
Normally I would agree with you on this point, but given that it’s set in the Tribulation, I’m not sure that this isn’t a reference to the Jews.
I also am not a KJV only guy, although I do prefer it for day to day reading. That being said, I suspect that we’re on the same page here, as all I’m saying is that there will be a great delusion in that day and unless you have something to guide you (Holy Spirit), you’re not going to have a chance to see through it.
The reason that I say that it may be possible for the elect to be deceived is because of how easy it is, even as a Christian, to not hear what God’s Spirit is saying to you due to other influences in your life. In my mind, I see it much like being hard of hearing or distracted. If you have something else in your life that’s yammering for your attention, it’s easy to miss the Spirit’s guidance. That’s the whole reason I believe that we all, as believers, need to be deeply rooted and accustomed to hearing from God and obeying His will. There’s coming a time in the very near future that our lives are going to depend on it.
“You are aware that Christianity didn’t even exist at the time the Psalm was written, right? Heathen meant anyone not of the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which we know today as Judaism.”
David the Psalmist was speaking prophetically!
Great article Bill,
exciting to see Psalm 2 coming to pass - although time is running out for all the sceptics. However, no-one will be without excuss when Jesus Messiah returns and may that be SOON SOON SOON.