Posted on 01/21/2011 3:01:25 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.(Psalm 2:1-3)
The first two Psalms go together. Perhaps it isn’t immediately apparent, because in some ways they are completely different, but I believe the Holy Spirit led those who placed them side by side as the opening of the Psalter.
Psalm one examines a lone individual, a God worshipping , scripture meditating disciple who has made a serious break with the thinking of his day. He is separate internally, he seeks other counsel than the prevailing opinions, he loves to be constantly re-oriented in his soul to the Word of God.
He is described in the singular, whereas the “ungodly”, the “sinners and the scornful” are pluralities in the Psalm. The assumption is that it is their worldview which is the prevailing thinking of the day. This one stands alone, and nourishes himself by a different fountain than everyone else.
The second Psalm, on the other hand, looks at the whole world. The entire planet is in a state of revolt, led by its political, educational, and religious leaders. The nations of the world are in turmoil, and their populations are gripped by an empty illusion,( A vain imagination). Traditional restraints are cast into the wind, a kind of social revolution is taking place, led by the elite on all levels.
I believe that though this Psalm has been fulfilled in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, involving the collusion of Pilate, Herod, and the corrupt high priests of Israel, (Acts 4:25-28) there is a further eschatological application of it as well. This Psalm is a prophecy of the geopolitical and cultural reality at the time of the coming of the Lord in Glory to Judge the world in Righteousness.
The nations are definitely in an uproar, indeed, “the heathen Rage“. Consider our times,
China rages, for it is awakening after two centuries of humiliating subjugation by western colonial powers,(the opium wars, etc), the harrowing World War 2 experience, a massive social upheaval , Communist revolution and the pragmatic decision to Capitalize their economy while remaining a totalitarian communist entity .
The perception is that it is time for China to take her place as a world power, increasing her presence in the competition for African resources, oil and gas, military dominance of the Pacific region , etc. China’s generals are bellicose in their pronouncements about their ability to reach cities like Los Angeles with their missiles. To the long remembering Chinese, there are definite scores to settle.
Russia also rages. The desire for the former glory as a world superpower has catapulted former KGB operative Vladimir Putin into a popular icon in Russia. The Russians have been newly empowered by oil money, they are re-arming at an alarming rate, and the brutal crushing of Georgia, in the final days of the Bush presidency was reminiscent of the worst of the old Soviet suppressions.
Russia also sees itself as a player in the middle east, arming Syria ,Hezbollah controlled Lebanon, and aiding Nuclear Iran in spite of world sanctions.
The Muslim World rages also, due to several converging factors. The rebirth of the State of Israel, and its successful repelling of invasions by combined Muslim armies has humiliated and inflamed the Moslem world. The existence of Israel, a modern, secular, western democracy in the very heart of the middle east is an affront to Muslim pride.
To make matters worse, the secularizing trend that swept the Moslem world after World War 1 has been seen as a failure in the Ummah, and perhaps even the cause of Islam’s failure to eradicate te Jewish state. As a consequence, Islamism has swept the world,in the form of Wahhabism, a puritanical Sunni version of Islam. It has been fueled by oceans of oil money , pouring out of Saudi Arabia, literally radicalizing once complacent Muslims from Indonesia to California, causing havoc.
When a Christian is revived and becomes more like Jesus, good things happen, people are helped, healed, encouraged, virtue is promoted and everyone benefits. When Muslims are revived to become more like the pirate and murderer that they consider to be ‘the perfect man’, bad things, terrible and even violent things happen.
The Nations of the World are in an uproar, Africa is turbulent, India and Pakistan are both Nuclear, and hate each other with a passion, Shia Islam has conducted the first successful modern Jihad, with the help of the Jimmy Carter administration, pulling the rug out from underneath the Shah of Iran. Europe is literally dying, due to birth control and abortion, and the Western democracies are going broke, thanks to the failed Socialistic policies that became widespread after World War 2.
This is the setting of Psalm 2, where the attention is turned to the leaders, the Kings of the earth, and the rulers.
I think that was an excellent point you made in response to the Tanakh...
The one that I find so profound has to do with the woman caught in Adultery..
Adultery was a Capital Crime in the Old testament.
Lev 20:10
The Mosaic law was very tough on crimes against people, relationships, and the family unit...
The religious leaders thought they could trip Jesus up on the Law, when they brought the woman caught in the Act of Adultery to him....
The scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.
But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
JOHN 8
No it isnt. There is not one scripture in all of Tanakh (OT) that says that you have to have faith in messiah and if you dont, it is a sin. NOT ONE. Why is that? Because when the messiah comes it will be so obvious, that it will take NO FAITH. We are to believe in G-d and Him only.
Did not GOD say to Abraham that " through you, that all the Nations of the world will be blessed " ?
Yes, and this has nothing to do with the man from Nazareth. It is the Jewish people that will be a light unto the nations, and those who bless Israel shall be blessed.
Look at the story of the life of Joseph.
Your comparison is meaningless and proves nothing. You only make this type of comparison because Jesus failed to meet the scriptural requirements of messiah.
They captured Joseph and put him in the pit to be sold ( Judas basically sold Jesus to the Pharisees for 30 pieces of silver ).
This is no comaprison at all. Joseph was sold into slavery for 20 sheckels. Was Jesus sold into slavery? No. Joseph had done no wrong. Jesus was seditious in the eyes of the Romans (guilty if he had been the messiah) and was accused of blasphemy by the Jews and he was guilty of that, per Deut 13 and 18.
Joseph was put in power 2nd in command in Egypt, Jesus is the 2nd person of the GOD head.
Heretical teaching. G-d is one, not 3-in-1. G-d has gone out of his way to tell us of His singular unity. 2nd in command of Egypt is in no way like being G-d. Sheesh.
... they feared him ( God of the Old Testament )
Another red herring of the church. That G-d somehow is big meany in the OT while offers Grace and Love in the NT. G-d has been comsistent thought out the Tanakh(OT), He has always offered His grace and love to us. Read Psalm 119. 176 verses of David extoling G-ds love and the beauty of His law. In addition to Psalms, Isaiah reveals G-ds mercy: Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
How is that not grace? G-d has ALWAYS "saved" us by His grace. That is not a "new" thing. There is no gospel required to obtain it. The Gentiles have always had Genesis 9 and the seven laws of Noah. The Jews have had the law and gentiles have always been able to convert in. No new gospel required.
The 2nd time Jesus comes back , their eyes will be opened and they will see whom they have pierced.
He isnt returning. And he is not the person described in Zech 12:10. That is a Jewish military leader who will be killed in battle in a future war that has not happened.
God was yearning to reveal the fullness of all that he is.
G-d revealed His entire nature in the Tanakh(OT). Certainly at Sinai, during His national revelation, had he had two other people in His nature he would have said so then and there. He didnt. He said He was One. He would not give the Law at Sinai, tell us we can do it and then 1500 years later say....sorry! That was just to prove you couldnt do it. To show you your sin. So, I lied when I told you you could do it (Deut 30)I am going to kill my son, who is really me (Human sacrifice is forbidden) and you must believe in him or else!
Does that sound like a loving G-d? One who who to us and be deceptive about his nature? Of course not.
If ? it was possible for man to keep all of GOD's law perfectly ?
We were never intended to keep the Law perfect. That is when G-d gives us means of forgiveness for our sin. Prayer, repentance, charity and fasting are all acceptable (And preferred) means of forgiveness. Lev 17:11 doesnt say that blood sacrifice is the ONLY means of atonement. Lev 5:11
that GOD would provide the sacrifice, Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah
Wrong! G-d provided a Ram to Abraham. It was only a test to see if Abraham FEARED G-d. He Did. Abraham had FAITH that G-d would provide an animal. Abraham passed the test. Human sacrifice is FORBIDDEN.
The Old Testament points up to a NEW and BETTER new everlasting Covenant that GOD initiated that will be put into force and estabished, and ratified in Jesus Christ.
Wrong! The tanakh points to HaShem, G-d and Him only. Reread Jeremiah 31:31. New Covenant does NOT mean new Law or new Torah. No Law of messiah. That is a heretical teaching of Paul. The Tanakh clearly states that in the messianic era, the Temple will be rebuilt, the Law is in place, Sin sacrifices return, the preisthood returns and the gentiles will comes to Jerusalem (Uncircumsized will not be allowed in the temple) to learn the Law (Isaiah 2:3) and they will admit that they have inherited lies all this time (Jer 16:19) and the Jews will keep G-ds law,statutes and commandments, forever.
Christianity to us is like mormonism to you. A heretical sect.
No it isnt. There is not one scripture in all of Tanakh (OT) that says that you have to have faith in messiah and if you dont, it is a sin. NOT ONE. Why is that? Because when the messiah comes it will be so obvious, that it will take NO FAITH. We are to believe in G-d and Him only.
Did not GOD say to Abraham that " through you, that all the Nations of the world will be blessed " ?
Yes, and this has nothing to do with the man from Nazareth. It is the Jewish people that will be a light unto the nations, and those who bless Israel shall be blessed.
Look at the story of the life of Joseph.
Your comparison is meaningless and proves nothing. You only make this type of comparison because Jesus failed to meet the scriptural requirements of messiah.
They captured Joseph and put him in the pit to be sold ( Judas basically sold Jesus to the Pharisees for 30 pieces of silver ).
This is no comaprison at all. Joseph was sold into slavery for 20 sheckels. Was Jesus sold into slavery? No. Joseph had done no wrong. Jesus was seditious in the eyes of the Romans (guilty if he had been the messiah) and was accused of blasphemy by the Jews and he was guilty of that, per Deut 13 and 18.
Joseph was put in power 2nd in command in Egypt, Jesus is the 2nd person of the GOD head.
Heretical teaching. G-d is one, not 3-in-1. G-d has gone out of his way to tell us of His singular unity. 2nd in command of Egypt is in no way like being G-d. Sheesh.
... they feared him ( God of the Old Testament )
Another red herring of the church. That G-d somehow is big meany in the OT while offers Grace and Love in the NT. G-d has been comsistent thought out the Tanakh(OT), He has always offered His grace and love to us. Read Psalm 119. 176 verses of David extoling G-ds love and the beauty of His law. In addition to Psalms, Isaiah reveals G-ds mercy: Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
How is that not grace? G-d has ALWAYS "saved" us by His grace. That is not a "new" thing. There is no gospel required to obtain it. The Gentiles have always had Genesis 9 and the seven laws of Noah. The Jews have had the law and gentiles have always been able to convert in. No new gospel required.
The 2nd time Jesus comes back , their eyes will be opened and they will see whom they have pierced.
He isnt returning. And he is not the person described in Zech 12:10. That is a Jewish military leader who will be killed in battle in a future war that has not happened.
God was yearning to reveal the fullness of all that he is.
G-d revealed His entire nature in the Tanakh(OT). Certainly at Sinai, during His national revelation, had he had two other people in His nature he would have said so then and there. He didnt. He said He was One. He would not give the Law at Sinai, tell us we can do it and then 1500 years later say....sorry! That was just to prove you couldnt do it. To show you your sin. So, I lied when I told you you could do it (Deut 30)I am going to kill my son, who is really me (Human sacrifice is forbidden) and you must believe in him or else!
Does that sound like a loving G-d? One who who to us and be deceptive about his nature? Of course not.
If ? it was possible for man to keep all of GOD's law perfectly ?
We were never intended to keep the Law perfect. That is when G-d gives us means of forgiveness for our sin. Prayer, repentance, charity and fasting are all acceptable (And preferred) means of forgiveness. Lev 17:11 doesnt say that blood sacrifice is the ONLY means of atonement. Lev 5:11
that GOD would provide the sacrifice, Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah
Wrong! G-d provided a Ram to Abraham. It was only a test to see if Abraham FEARED G-d. He Did. Abraham had FAITH that G-d would provide an animal. Abraham passed the test. Human sacrifice is FORBIDDEN.
The Old Testament points up to a NEW and BETTER new everlasting Covenant that GOD initiated that will be put into force and estabished, and ratified in Jesus Christ.
Wrong! The tanakh points to HaShem, G-d and Him only. Reread Jeremiah 31:31. New Covenant does NOT mean new Law or new Torah. No Law of messiah. That is a heretical teaching of Paul. The Tanakh clearly states that in the messianic era, the Temple will be rebuilt, the Law is in place, Sin sacrifices return, the preisthood returns and the gentiles will comes to Jerusalem (Uncircumsized will not be allowed in the temple) to learn the Law (Isaiah 2:3) and they will admit that they have inherited lies all this time (Jer 16:19) and the Jews will keep G-ds law,statutes and commandments, forever.
Christianity to us is like mormonism to you. A heretical sect.
Tarah! NO! Human sacrifice is forbidden. Jesus was a man. Therefore a human sacrifice. We are each responsible for our own sins! No human or man-god can take sin on our behalf! The 7 laws of Noah in Genesis 9 reconcile the gentiles to G-d. The Law of Moses reconciles the Jewish people to G-d. There is NO NEED for a Grecco-Roman god-man hybrid to step in. That by DEFINITION makes G-d a deciever and a liar! G-d forbid.
Blasater, Blaster!
Hello my friend...Yes I know we don’t see eye to eye on this issue....:( I agree Human Sacrafice is forbidden, but the Christ was not just a *Man* if he was, the tomb would of proved he has not *Risen*
Let’s just say this: The Pharisees wanted very much to prove Jesus a Liar, they went to all measures to prevent anyone from stealing the body of Christ by putting 2 Roman Guards in front of the tomb and a Stone that could not be moved....
If Jesus was in the tomb, they would of shouted from the rooftops and showed everyone in jerusalem, everyone that he was not the Divine, he was not Israel’s Messiah, but we know what happened....
If this was put to a trial today..What happened to the body of Jesus Christ, the outcome would be the same..He is risen..
Shalom!
:)
Tarah!
The resurrection doesnt prove he was messiah. Jesus raised Lazarus after 4 days! Does that mean Lazarus was a god-man? Elisha and Elijah also raised the dead. Are they god-men? Resurrection of the dead is a Jewish teaching! But it has no bearing on whether Jesus was the messiah. none. Never once does the Tanakh say that you must have faith in a resurrected personage to be "saved". Not Once? Why would G-d be totally silent on such an important article of faith? The answer is.....because it is heretical teaching and G-d NEVER commanded any such thing!
Shalom!
Hi blasater,
I’m not sure if I understand what you meant...So what does resurrection of the dead mean in Jewish teaching? Besides Lazarus being resurrected as one of the *Miracles* Jesus did, my understanding is Elijah and Enoch were taken alive not dead....
Thank you Larry- You are right, I am not anti-christ. We share more values and truths than we have differences. In a polemical discussion, things can get a little out of hand... I wasnt offended really, I am used to it. It isnt the first time I have been called that and it wont be the last! It is just a lol moment for me.
Shalom
1 KINGS 17:17-24: Elijah raises a child from the dead.
2 KINGS 4:17-37: Elisha raises from the dead the son of a “Shunammite woman”.
I will try and find the scriptures for what you said...I guess what I was referring to is that Jesus resurrection was not raising from the dead to life then death again..My understanding is that the resurrection of other’s was they eventually did die again like Lazarus....
There is writings about the dead being raised after Jesus’s resurrection and many in Jerusalem were eye witnesses to these resurrected souls, but again they did eventually die...But I am going to do more research!
Thanks!
Thanks..I just answered this to blasater..I know these verses you quoted, but again these resurrected souls did die
(Physically) again...No one was involved with the resurrection of Christ....He was seen in a Physical form after the resurrection,
Jesus hismelf said he would raise himself to Glory..
So this is different then Elijah and Elisha raising a child from the dead..
Enoch was raised alive to heaven, so we can see that resurrection does take on different meanings...
Oh one thing I did want to ask you blasater, if you were to believe Jesus was raised from the dead, you are not saying the Apostles had anything to do with it are you? I just wanted to clarify what you meant in that context....
This is another case of shooting an arrow into a tree and then drawing a bullseye around it.
No not really....
I am just saying if Jesus Christ resurrected from the tomb, who was involved in that event????
What should a Jew or Righteous Gentile think?
DEUT 32
7 Remember the days of old,consider the years of many generations. Ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you:
8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations, When He separated the sons of Adam, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the LORD’s portion is His people; Jacob is the place of His inheritance.
DEUT 17
8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;
9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:
10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:
11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.
12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.
13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.
Did you know the word messiah isnt even in the Jewish scriptures? Not even once! The word mashiach, G-ds annointed or annointed one appears 39 times in Tanach. Not once is it translated as messiah. Why? Because an annointed one can be a priest, king or even a non-Jew like Cyrus of persia. And these people mearly perform the work of G-d, for G-d. And guess what! Not all messiahs (annointed ones) are righteous! King Saul was an annointed one, he was not righteous.
Christians like to point to Dan9 as a proof text for Jesus, claiming he was cut-off. But being cut-off is ALWAYS a bad thing. Righteous people are NEVER cut-off. Do a word search! Daniel 9 is about 2 annointed ones, one righteous and one unrighteous who gets cut-off!
“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” (Heb. 9:27).
There is writings about the dead being raised after Jesus’s resurrection and many in Jerusalem were eye witnesses to these resurrected souls, but again they did eventually die...But I am going to do more research! Thanks!
The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing during the second half of the first century AD, produced two major works: History of the Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews, and he had not one word to say about this most extraordinary occurrence. Fifty days after the alleged event, Peter was giving a speech recorded in Acts 2, but said nothing about the saints rising. Paul, who spoke at great length (1 Corinthians 15) to convince his listeners that Yehoshua's resurrection had occurred, had nothing to say about it either.
The appearance of these bodies "unto many" must have been the sensation of a lifetime for the residents of Jerusalem. If this remarkable event actually happened, why did only Matthew report it? About twenty percent of the gospels is repetition so it is not as if New Testament writers did not like to repeat what others have written; repetition of the most mundane events occurs everywhere, so why didn't Mark, Luke, John, Peter, or Paul write about the dead bodies of the saints marching through Jerusalem, appearing unto many?
Also, how come Matthew doesn't think we should know the names of the saints that rose from their graves? Why doesn't he tell us with whom the bodies of the saints met, and what they said--assuming they said anything, and where they went after their appearance unto the many? Did the bodies of the saints dutifully return to their graves after a polite visit, or did they remain for years among the residents of Jerusalem? Is there proof for this event that has so many unanswerable questions?
bookmark...great analysis.
Okay..Here is what I would like to ask you all, as you have said..G-d cannot be a Man...
G-d in himself..I think we can all agree on is described as the Alpha and the Omega, G-d Almighty. A consuming Fire. I AM WHO I AM, Elohim, YAWEH, Abba, Jehovah...
Okay in Genesis 18 it says:
The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord,[a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”
“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”
Abraham says: He saw 3 Men...He did not say he saw 3 Visions or Apparitions, or illuminated figures, he said *Men* 2 Angels and the LORD....
Abraham spoke with them....If G-d did not appear in the figure of a Man or human being to Abraham as well as the Angels....Then how did G-d show himself to Abraham?
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