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A World In Revolt...Psalm 2
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/a-world-in-revolt-psalm-2/ ^ | 01-21-10 | Bill Randles

Posted on 01/21/2011 3:01:25 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

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1 posted on 01/21/2011 3:01:28 PM PST by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
Yes, of course all you said is true about all the nations today being up in a uproar, but, Jesus said, that they will hate you ( us Christians ) because the world first hated him.

( * Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.(Psalm 2:1-3) ....

The main focus of the Psalmist here is the rage that the world, mainly the heathen ( the unbelievers, the ungodly ) have in their vain imaginations, their insanity, of their contempt and unjustified hatred towards the Christians.
The rulers of this world, this current administration has taken unjustifiable steps to persecute Christians who are just exercising their Constitutional right of freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
2 posted on 01/21/2011 3:27:33 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist; blasater1960
The main focus of the Psalmist here is the rage that the world, mainly the heathen ( the unbelievers, the ungodly ) have in their vain imaginations, their insanity, of their contempt and unjustified hatred towards the Christians.

You are aware that Christianity didn't even exist at the time the Psalm was written, right? Heathen meant anyone not of the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which we know today as Judaism.

3 posted on 01/22/2011 1:01:43 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen
( * The main focus of the Psalmist here is the rage that the world, mainly the heathen ( the unbelievers, the ungodly ) have in their vain imaginations, their insanity, of their contempt and unjustified hatred towards the Christians. * )

" You are aware that Christianity didn't even exist at the time the Psalm was written, right? Heathen meant anyone not of the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which we know today as Judaism. "

John I:I

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And John goes on and tells us that " THE WORD " became flesh and dwelt among us, that is Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah ....
Just who do you think " THE WORD " is ? ... no, wait, are you saying that Christian's have to leave out the total history of the Old Testament because it does not apply to them ? ....
The Old Testament is full of many types, or metaphorical pictures of what is to come, not just a historical record of God's dealings with the Nation of Israel.
The picture, the metaphorical type of the spotless lamb that is for sacrifice for sins in the Old Testament is a forshadow of Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah, no, wait, you would tell us it was only for the Jewish sacrifice for sins in the Old Testament,
silly me, for even thinking it was a " foreshadow " of what is to come , that was a " type " or foreshadow of Jesus Christ.
4 posted on 01/22/2011 4:18:02 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Yes, the Jews have no idea about their own history and religion, it was all a forshadowing for Christianity.


5 posted on 01/22/2011 4:20:42 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen
" Yes, the Jews have no idea about their own history and religion, it was all a forshadowing for Christianity. "

Why then ? if you already knew that , why your response to Psalm 2 ? ( " You are aware that Christianity didn't even exist at the time the Psalm was written, right? Heathen meant anyone not of the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which we know today as Judaism. " ) ....

Come on man, GOD loves you !
The OLD Testament was not only GOD's dealings with the Nation of Israel, but, the whole world.
Did not GOD say to Abraham that " through you, that all the Nations of the world will be blessed " ?

Look at the story of the life of Joseph.
That story of Joseph shows us the heart of GOD.
GOD's heart towards the Nation of Israel, and us sinners, the whole world.
They captured Joseph and put him in the pit to be sold ( Judas basically sold Jesus to the Pharisees for 30 pieces of silver ).
Joseph was innocent of wrong doing when he was falsely accused of wrong doing ( Jesus was falsely accused ) .
Just like Joseph, was not Jesus lead to judgment and prison ?
Joseph was put in power 2nd in command in Egypt, Jesus is the 2nd person of the GOD head.
The first time Joseph was on the throne, and his brothers saw him, they only saw him as 2nd in command of Egypt, they feared him ( God of the Old Testament )
Joseph yearned , his heart cried out with a bursting heart that his brothers would know him.
God's heart cries out, he yearned that not only Israel, but, the whole world will know his plan of redemption, his love, his mercy, his grace, God's heart cries out, he yearns that we should know HIM !
Jesus cried out to Israel that they would know him the first time he came.
( Christians are the benefactors of knowing this " TRUTH " , the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ at this present time )....
The 2nd time his brothers saw him, he revealed who he was, and all of them were reconciled with their brother Joseph.
The 2nd time Jesus comes back , their eyes will be opened and they will see whom they have pierced.

Yes, God is a HOLY and Righteous GOD, but, there is more to him.
In the Old Testament, God's heart was bursting to show us his love and mercy,
God was yearning to reveal the fullness of all that he is.
In the fullness of time Jesus Christ came on the world scene.
Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah is GOD's full expression of his love, mercy, grace and truth ( for Grace and Truth came by Jesus Christ )

IF !

If ? it was possible for man to keep all of GOD's law perfectly ?
why then ?
Did God require Israel to come every year with a sin sacrifice ?
GOD was showing man that it was impossible that man can live up to GOD's strict laws, demands, and standards and that in the fullness of time: ( just like GOD said to Abraham when he took his son Issac up on the mountain )
that HE !
that GOD would provide the sacrifice, Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah.
Jesus said, with man ? it is IMPOSSIBLE, but, with GOD ? nothing is impossible.

The Old Testament is a historical record of GOD's dealings with Israel, and the rest of the world.
The Old Testament is a beautiful reminder of all the things that is to come, the Old Testament points us to Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah.
The Old Testament is a testament ( hence, the word, Testament ) of how GOD created man to be loved, and cared for, but, man messed up, but GOD didn't give up on man.
The Old Testament points up to a NEW and BETTER new everlasting Covenant that GOD initiated that will be put into force and estabished, and ratified in Jesus Christ.
The NEW Covenant is the everlasting covenant of GOD of the covenant of Grace.
6 posted on 01/22/2011 5:15:51 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Netizen
For anyone to reject the Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus, it is " SIN " in God's eyes.
It's called the knowledge of the truth ( The true Gospel, the Gospel of the Grace of God in Jesus Christ: note, Read Galatians chapters 1-2-3 for the Gospel of Grace is the true Gospel, not some " Other " Gospel ).
The Knowledge of the Truth : in the book of Hebrews chapter 10 verse 26 ( 26. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left ) ...
If we continue to reject, to sin, the truth of Jesus Christ, that salvation is only in HIM alone, then ? there is no more excuse, no more ( as Jesus said, cloak for sin ) covering, no more sacrifice for sins in left ).....
John chapter 15 verses 21-22 confirms it:
( 21. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin. )...


John 15 verses 18-27

18. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

22. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

23. He that hateth me hateth my Father also.

24. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.

25. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27. And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. King James Version (KJV)
7 posted on 01/22/2011 7:00:55 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Netizen; American Constitutionalist
Yes, I did see this and shook my head. Like so many psalms where David is talking about himself, these scriptures get hijacked for the man from Nazareth.

Actually I was waiting for the next shoe to drop, like verse 7, you are my son...supposedly G-d talking about Jzuz when it is David....like Solomon and Israel who are also called G-ds son. Or verse 2:12 where the KJV completely mistranslates the verse to read Kiss the Son, when it says nothing of the sort...also, these pslams usually having a NT scripture to go with it as proof. Which as Rabbi Singer says, is like an Archer who first shoots his arrow, then paints the target around it, then proclaims a bullseye!

8 posted on 01/22/2011 11:01:04 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: blasater1960

What CULT would you be from ?


10 posted on 01/23/2011 10:40:35 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: American Constitutionalist
What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice:

First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians...

- Martin Luther

11 posted on 01/23/2011 10:54:21 AM PST by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: hlmencken3

What’s your point in posting that ?


12 posted on 01/23/2011 10:58:04 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: hlmencken3
Could you clarify in more detail of your post that has nothing to do with this thread ?
13 posted on 01/23/2011 12:37:18 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: hlmencken3

Foreshadowing that led to the Holocaust?


14 posted on 01/23/2011 1:11:21 PM PST by Netizen
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To: American Constitutionalist
Actually I was waiting for the next shoe to drop, like verse 7, you are my son...supposedly G-d talking about Jzuz when it is David....like Solomon and Israel who are also called G-ds son. Or verse 2:12 where the KJV completely mistranslates the verse to read Kiss the Son, when it says nothing of the sort...also, these pslams usually having a NT scripture to go with it as proof. Which as Rabbi Singer says, is like an Archer who first shoots his arrow, then paints the target around it, then proclaims a bullseye! "

Yeah, I was waiting for the KJV deliberate mistranslation of Psalm 22:16 to try and force prophecy fulfillment.

15 posted on 01/23/2011 1:16:36 PM PST by Netizen
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To: hlmencken3
Are you trying to make the argument that Christians are enemies of Israel ?
Or better yet, are you trying to make the argument that those who cling to the teachings of salvation by Grace through faith alone look bad ? are enemies of Israel ?
That is NOT what the NEW Testament teaches us, just on the contrary !!
Christians ( the true Christians ( those who are saved by Grace, not of works ) who love Christ ) are taught to love Israel, to support Israel, that Israel, the Jews are actually our brothers and sisters.
I don't know what your trying to teach here, but, we are to love our Jewish brothers and sisters, and Israel.

Oh yeah ? BTW ? in your failed attempt to make those who cling to Martin Luther's teachings look bad, your totally wrong, and can see your true motive in your post.


16 posted on 01/23/2011 1:25:44 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Netizen
" Yeah, I was waiting for the KJV deliberate mistranslation of Psalm 22:16 to try and force prophecy fulfillment. "

Who says that I cling to the KJV alone ?

Are you ? or are you not a ANTI-CHRIST ? since we can see now that you don't hold to the belief that Jesus Christ is Yeshua the promised Messiah.
17 posted on 01/23/2011 1:30:29 PM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: Netizen

Christianity can’t ever seem to shake Jew-hate completely. Sort of like how allegorizing Israel into the church never completely takes, and someone is always finding physical Israel.

The two destructions of the Land of Israel took place under proud pagans. That the Holocaust happened in nominally Christian Europe should be cause to always be on guard against governments unchecked by transcendent morality.


18 posted on 01/23/2011 1:54:54 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: American Constitutionalist
Ahh ? what CULT your religion would you be from ?

I am Jewish and you, FRiend, are of a cult of my faith.

19 posted on 01/23/2011 2:43:10 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: American Constitutionalist

What I think the human psyche cannot wrap there arms around is that Jesus Christ is the payment in *Full* for the Sins of Mankind...There is nothing Man can do to reconcile himself, by himself or through a paticular religion or the *law* to a Holy Just GOD....

We can see from *Creation* in Genesis G-d did not create us for laws, rituals, and special observances....

All religions are Man’s attempt to try and please G-d and this is meant as no dis-respect to any one person’s religious system, but Catholics cannot become *more saved* by saying the *Rosary* or Muslims cannot be *More saved* by praying 5 times a day, or Jews cannot be *More Saved* by keeping the Sabbath or Circumcision....

This is the difference between Jesus Christ and all man made religions...Jesus said..I am it..I am the only one who can save humankind from Sin, by the *Cross* it is not about *Us* it is about *Christ*....

This was a problem during Saul/Pauls travels with the Churches in Collosians, and it is today...

People still feel the need to be more Spiritual or legalistic to be reconciled to the *Creator*

Scriptures tell us this as well.

1.GALATIANS 4:15-What has happened to all your joy? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.

2.Galatians 2:16: “Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.”

ACTS: 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”


20 posted on 01/23/2011 3:50:22 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: American Constitutionalist

I think that was an excellent point you made in response to the Tanakh...

The one that I find so profound has to do with the woman caught in Adultery..

Adultery was a Capital Crime in the Old testament.
Lev 20:10
The Mosaic law was very tough on crimes against people, relationships, and the family unit...

The religious leaders thought they could trip Jesus up on the Law, when they brought the woman caught in the Act of Adultery to him....

The scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

JOHN 8


21 posted on 01/23/2011 4:02:19 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: American Constitutionalist
For anyone to reject the Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus, it is " SIN " in God's eyes.

No it isnt. There is not one scripture in all of Tanakh (OT) that says that you have to have faith in messiah and if you dont, it is a sin. NOT ONE. Why is that? Because when the messiah comes it will be so obvious, that it will take NO FAITH. We are to believe in G-d and Him only.

Did not GOD say to Abraham that " through you, that all the Nations of the world will be blessed " ?

Yes, and this has nothing to do with the man from Nazareth. It is the Jewish people that will be a light unto the nations, and those who bless Israel shall be blessed.

Look at the story of the life of Joseph.

Your comparison is meaningless and proves nothing. You only make this type of comparison because Jesus failed to meet the scriptural requirements of messiah.

They captured Joseph and put him in the pit to be sold ( Judas basically sold Jesus to the Pharisees for 30 pieces of silver ).

This is no comaprison at all. Joseph was sold into slavery for 20 sheckels. Was Jesus sold into slavery? No. Joseph had done no wrong. Jesus was seditious in the eyes of the Romans (guilty if he had been the messiah) and was accused of blasphemy by the Jews and he was guilty of that, per Deut 13 and 18.

Joseph was put in power 2nd in command in Egypt, Jesus is the 2nd person of the GOD head.

Heretical teaching. G-d is one, not 3-in-1. G-d has gone out of his way to tell us of His singular unity. 2nd in command of Egypt is in no way like being G-d. Sheesh.

... they feared him ( God of the Old Testament )

Another red herring of the church. That G-d somehow is big meany in the OT while offers Grace and Love in the NT. G-d has been comsistent thought out the Tanakh(OT), He has always offered His grace and love to us. Read Psalm 119. 176 verses of David extoling G-ds love and the beauty of His law. In addition to Psalms, Isaiah reveals G-ds mercy: Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

How is that not grace? G-d has ALWAYS "saved" us by His grace. That is not a "new" thing. There is no gospel required to obtain it. The Gentiles have always had Genesis 9 and the seven laws of Noah. The Jews have had the law and gentiles have always been able to convert in. No new gospel required.

The 2nd time Jesus comes back , their eyes will be opened and they will see whom they have pierced.

He isnt returning. And he is not the person described in Zech 12:10. That is a Jewish military leader who will be killed in battle in a future war that has not happened.

God was yearning to reveal the fullness of all that he is.

G-d revealed His entire nature in the Tanakh(OT). Certainly at Sinai, during His national revelation, had he had two other people in His nature he would have said so then and there. He didnt. He said He was One. He would not give the Law at Sinai, tell us we can do it and then 1500 years later say....sorry! That was just to prove you couldnt do it. To show you your sin. So, I lied when I told you you could do it (Deut 30)I am going to kill my son, who is really me (Human sacrifice is forbidden) and you must believe in him or else!

Does that sound like a loving G-d? One who who to us and be deceptive about his nature? Of course not.

If ? it was possible for man to keep all of GOD's law perfectly ?

We were never intended to keep the Law perfect. That is when G-d gives us means of forgiveness for our sin. Prayer, repentance, charity and fasting are all acceptable (And preferred) means of forgiveness. Lev 17:11 doesnt say that blood sacrifice is the ONLY means of atonement. Lev 5:11

that GOD would provide the sacrifice, Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah

Wrong! G-d provided a Ram to Abraham. It was only a test to see if Abraham FEARED G-d. He Did. Abraham had FAITH that G-d would provide an animal. Abraham passed the test. Human sacrifice is FORBIDDEN.

The Old Testament points up to a NEW and BETTER new everlasting Covenant that GOD initiated that will be put into force and estabished, and ratified in Jesus Christ.

Wrong! The tanakh points to HaShem, G-d and Him only. Reread Jeremiah 31:31. New Covenant does NOT mean new Law or new Torah. No Law of messiah. That is a heretical teaching of Paul. The Tanakh clearly states that in the messianic era, the Temple will be rebuilt, the Law is in place, Sin sacrifices return, the preisthood returns and the gentiles will comes to Jerusalem (Uncircumsized will not be allowed in the temple) to learn the Law (Isaiah 2:3) and they will admit that they have inherited lies all this time (Jer 16:19) and the Jews will keep G-ds law,statutes and commandments, forever.

Christianity to us is like mormonism to you. A heretical sect.

22 posted on 01/23/2011 5:08:10 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: American Constitutionalist; Netizen
For anyone to reject the Gospel of Grace in Christ Jesus, it is " SIN " in God's eyes.

No it isnt. There is not one scripture in all of Tanakh (OT) that says that you have to have faith in messiah and if you dont, it is a sin. NOT ONE. Why is that? Because when the messiah comes it will be so obvious, that it will take NO FAITH. We are to believe in G-d and Him only.

Did not GOD say to Abraham that " through you, that all the Nations of the world will be blessed " ?

Yes, and this has nothing to do with the man from Nazareth. It is the Jewish people that will be a light unto the nations, and those who bless Israel shall be blessed.

Look at the story of the life of Joseph.

Your comparison is meaningless and proves nothing. You only make this type of comparison because Jesus failed to meet the scriptural requirements of messiah.

They captured Joseph and put him in the pit to be sold ( Judas basically sold Jesus to the Pharisees for 30 pieces of silver ).

This is no comaprison at all. Joseph was sold into slavery for 20 sheckels. Was Jesus sold into slavery? No. Joseph had done no wrong. Jesus was seditious in the eyes of the Romans (guilty if he had been the messiah) and was accused of blasphemy by the Jews and he was guilty of that, per Deut 13 and 18.

Joseph was put in power 2nd in command in Egypt, Jesus is the 2nd person of the GOD head.

Heretical teaching. G-d is one, not 3-in-1. G-d has gone out of his way to tell us of His singular unity. 2nd in command of Egypt is in no way like being G-d. Sheesh.

... they feared him ( God of the Old Testament )

Another red herring of the church. That G-d somehow is big meany in the OT while offers Grace and Love in the NT. G-d has been comsistent thought out the Tanakh(OT), He has always offered His grace and love to us. Read Psalm 119. 176 verses of David extoling G-ds love and the beauty of His law. In addition to Psalms, Isaiah reveals G-ds mercy: Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

How is that not grace? G-d has ALWAYS "saved" us by His grace. That is not a "new" thing. There is no gospel required to obtain it. The Gentiles have always had Genesis 9 and the seven laws of Noah. The Jews have had the law and gentiles have always been able to convert in. No new gospel required.

The 2nd time Jesus comes back , their eyes will be opened and they will see whom they have pierced.

He isnt returning. And he is not the person described in Zech 12:10. That is a Jewish military leader who will be killed in battle in a future war that has not happened.

God was yearning to reveal the fullness of all that he is.

G-d revealed His entire nature in the Tanakh(OT). Certainly at Sinai, during His national revelation, had he had two other people in His nature he would have said so then and there. He didnt. He said He was One. He would not give the Law at Sinai, tell us we can do it and then 1500 years later say....sorry! That was just to prove you couldnt do it. To show you your sin. So, I lied when I told you you could do it (Deut 30)I am going to kill my son, who is really me (Human sacrifice is forbidden) and you must believe in him or else!

Does that sound like a loving G-d? One who who to us and be deceptive about his nature? Of course not.

If ? it was possible for man to keep all of GOD's law perfectly ?

We were never intended to keep the Law perfect. That is when G-d gives us means of forgiveness for our sin. Prayer, repentance, charity and fasting are all acceptable (And preferred) means of forgiveness. Lev 17:11 doesnt say that blood sacrifice is the ONLY means of atonement. Lev 5:11

that GOD would provide the sacrifice, Jesus Christ Yeshua the Messiah

Wrong! G-d provided a Ram to Abraham. It was only a test to see if Abraham FEARED G-d. He Did. Abraham had FAITH that G-d would provide an animal. Abraham passed the test. Human sacrifice is FORBIDDEN.

The Old Testament points up to a NEW and BETTER new everlasting Covenant that GOD initiated that will be put into force and estabished, and ratified in Jesus Christ.

Wrong! The tanakh points to HaShem, G-d and Him only. Reread Jeremiah 31:31. New Covenant does NOT mean new Law or new Torah. No Law of messiah. That is a heretical teaching of Paul. The Tanakh clearly states that in the messianic era, the Temple will be rebuilt, the Law is in place, Sin sacrifices return, the preisthood returns and the gentiles will comes to Jerusalem (Uncircumsized will not be allowed in the temple) to learn the Law (Isaiah 2:3) and they will admit that they have inherited lies all this time (Jer 16:19) and the Jews will keep G-ds law,statutes and commandments, forever.

Christianity to us is like mormonism to you. A heretical sect.

23 posted on 01/23/2011 5:08:56 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP
What I think the human psyche cannot wrap there arms around is that Jesus Christ is the payment in *Full* for the Sins of Mankind

Tarah! NO! Human sacrifice is forbidden. Jesus was a man. Therefore a human sacrifice. We are each responsible for our own sins! No human or man-god can take sin on our behalf! The 7 laws of Noah in Genesis 9 reconcile the gentiles to G-d. The Law of Moses reconciles the Jewish people to G-d. There is NO NEED for a Grecco-Roman god-man hybrid to step in. That by DEFINITION makes G-d a deciever and a liar! G-d forbid.

24 posted on 01/23/2011 5:16:09 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Blasater, Blaster!

Hello my friend...Yes I know we don’t see eye to eye on this issue....:( I agree Human Sacrafice is forbidden, but the Christ was not just a *Man* if he was, the tomb would of proved he has not *Risen*

Let’s just say this: The Pharisees wanted very much to prove Jesus a Liar, they went to all measures to prevent anyone from stealing the body of Christ by putting 2 Roman Guards in front of the tomb and a Stone that could not be moved....

If Jesus was in the tomb, they would of shouted from the rooftops and showed everyone in jerusalem, everyone that he was not the Divine, he was not Israel’s Messiah, but we know what happened....

If this was put to a trial today..What happened to the body of Jesus Christ, the outcome would be the same..He is risen..

Shalom!
:)
Tarah!


25 posted on 01/23/2011 5:31:02 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: TaraP
Oh my Tarah! but the Christ was not just a *Man* if he was, the tomb would of proved he has not *Risen*

The resurrection doesnt prove he was messiah. Jesus raised Lazarus after 4 days! Does that mean Lazarus was a god-man? Elisha and Elijah also raised the dead. Are they god-men? Resurrection of the dead is a Jewish teaching! But it has no bearing on whether Jesus was the messiah. none. Never once does the Tanakh say that you must have faith in a resurrected personage to be "saved". Not Once? Why would G-d be totally silent on such an important article of faith? The answer is.....because it is heretical teaching and G-d NEVER commanded any such thing!

Shalom!

27 posted on 01/23/2011 5:40:40 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Hi blasater,

I’m not sure if I understand what you meant...So what does resurrection of the dead mean in Jewish teaching? Besides Lazarus being resurrected as one of the *Miracles* Jesus did, my understanding is Elijah and Enoch were taken alive not dead....


28 posted on 01/23/2011 5:56:23 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Larry Lucido

Thank you Larry- You are right, I am not anti-christ. We share more values and truths than we have differences. In a polemical discussion, things can get a little out of hand... I wasnt offended really, I am used to it. It isnt the first time I have been called that and it wont be the last! It is just a lol moment for me.


29 posted on 01/23/2011 5:58:15 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP
What I was trying to say is that both Elijah and Elisha raised people from the dead. That did not mean they had Jesus type power (diety). Nor do the people who have been raised from the dead before Jesus by Elisha, Elijah or even those by Jesus and the apostles, enjoy any special status (diety). And at the end of the ages, the dead believers in G-d will rise. So resurrection is not a unique event right? So even Jesus resurrection is not a unique thing and G-d never once mentions blief in a ressurected person as a requirement or commandment. Does that make more sense?

Shalom

30 posted on 01/23/2011 6:09:38 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP

1 KINGS 17:17-24: Elijah raises a child from the dead.

2 KINGS 4:17-37: Elisha raises from the dead the son of a “Shunammite woman”.


31 posted on 01/23/2011 6:23:05 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: blasater1960

I will try and find the scriptures for what you said...I guess what I was referring to is that Jesus resurrection was not raising from the dead to life then death again..My understanding is that the resurrection of other’s was they eventually did die again like Lazarus....

There is writings about the dead being raised after Jesus’s resurrection and many in Jerusalem were eye witnesses to these resurrected souls, but again they did eventually die...But I am going to do more research!
Thanks!


32 posted on 01/23/2011 6:27:13 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: jjotto; blasater1960

Thanks..I just answered this to blasater..I know these verses you quoted, but again these resurrected souls did die
(Physically) again...No one was involved with the resurrection of Christ....He was seen in a Physical form after the resurrection,

Jesus hismelf said he would raise himself to Glory..

So this is different then Elijah and Elisha raising a child from the dead..

Enoch was raised alive to heaven, so we can see that resurrection does take on different meanings...

Oh one thing I did want to ask you blasater, if you were to believe Jesus was raised from the dead, you are not saying the Apostles had anything to do with it are you? I just wanted to clarify what you meant in that context....


33 posted on 01/23/2011 6:33:57 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

This is another case of shooting an arrow into a tree and then drawing a bullseye around it.


34 posted on 01/23/2011 6:41:46 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

No not really....

I am just saying if Jesus Christ resurrected from the tomb, who was involved in that event????


35 posted on 01/23/2011 6:43:58 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

What should a Jew or Righteous Gentile think?

DEUT 32
7 Remember the days of old,consider the years of many generations. Ask your father, and he will show you; your elders, and they will tell you:

8 When the Most High divided their inheritance to the nations, When He separated the sons of Adam, He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the children of Israel.

9 For the LORD’s portion is His people; Jacob is the place of His inheritance.

DEUT 17
8 If there arise a matter too hard for thee in judgment, between blood and blood, between plea and plea, and between stroke and stroke, being matters of controversy within thy gates: then shalt thou arise, and get thee up into the place which the LORD thy God shall choose;

9 And thou shalt come unto the priests the Levites, and unto the judge that shall be in those days, and enquire; and they shall shew thee the sentence of judgment:

10 And thou shalt do according to the sentence, which they of that place which the LORD shall choose shall shew thee; and thou shalt observe to do according to all that they inform thee:

11 According to the sentence of the law which they shall teach thee, and according to the judgment which they shall tell thee, thou shalt do: thou shalt not decline from the sentence which they shall shew thee, to the right hand, nor to the left.

12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before the LORD thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.

13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and do no more presumptuously.


36 posted on 01/23/2011 6:51:41 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: TaraP; All
Hi Tara- No the apostles didnt have anything to do with it. Only G-d would have been involved (but obviously not jesus because he cant be a god-man per the scriptures) Again, in the final analysis it is irrelevant since the G-d never once askes us to have faith in a messiah nor faith in a resurrected messiah. We are to believe in HaShem only. He is One, His Name is One.

Did you know the word messiah isnt even in the Jewish scriptures? Not even once! The word mashiach, G-ds annointed or annointed one appears 39 times in Tanach. Not once is it translated as messiah. Why? Because an annointed one can be a priest, king or even a non-Jew like Cyrus of persia. And these people mearly perform the work of G-d, for G-d. And guess what! Not all messiahs (annointed ones) are righteous! King Saul was an annointed one, he was not righteous.

Christians like to point to Dan9 as a proof text for Jesus, claiming he was cut-off. But being cut-off is ALWAYS a bad thing. Righteous people are NEVER cut-off. Do a word search! Daniel 9 is about 2 annointed ones, one righteous and one unrighteous who gets cut-off!

37 posted on 01/23/2011 11:50:42 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP; blasater1960; jjotto
I will try and find the scriptures for what you said...I guess what I was referring to is that Jesus resurrection was not raising from the dead to life then death again..My understanding is that the resurrection of other’s was they eventually did die again like Lazarus....

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:” (Heb. 9:27).

There is writings about the dead being raised after Jesus’s resurrection and many in Jerusalem were eye witnesses to these resurrected souls, but again they did eventually die...But I am going to do more research! Thanks!

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing during the second half of the first century AD, produced two major works: History of the Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews, and he had not one word to say about this most extraordinary occurrence. Fifty days after the alleged event, Peter was giving a speech recorded in Acts 2, but said nothing about the saints rising. Paul, who spoke at great length (1 Corinthians 15) to convince his listeners that Yehoshua's resurrection had occurred, had nothing to say about it either.

The appearance of these bodies "unto many" must have been the sensation of a lifetime for the residents of Jerusalem. If this remarkable event actually happened, why did only Matthew report it? About twenty percent of the gospels is repetition so it is not as if New Testament writers did not like to repeat what others have written; repetition of the most mundane events occurs everywhere, so why didn't Mark, Luke, John, Peter, or Paul write about the dead bodies of the saints marching through Jerusalem, appearing unto many?

Also, how come Matthew doesn't think we should know the names of the saints that rose from their graves? Why doesn't he tell us with whom the bodies of the saints met, and what they said--assuming they said anything, and where they went after their appearance unto the many? Did the bodies of the saints dutifully return to their graves after a polite visit, or did they remain for years among the residents of Jerusalem? Is there proof for this event that has so many unanswerable questions?

38 posted on 01/24/2011 3:56:49 AM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen

bookmark...great analysis.


39 posted on 01/24/2011 8:07:49 AM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: Netizen; blasater1960; jjotto

Okay..Here is what I would like to ask you all, as you have said..G-d cannot be a Man...

G-d in himself..I think we can all agree on is described as the Alpha and the Omega, G-d Almighty. A consuming Fire. I AM WHO I AM, Elohim, YAWEH, Abba, Jehovah...

Okay in Genesis 18 it says:

The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.
3 He said, “If I have found favor in your eyes, my lord,[a] do not pass your servant by. 4 Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5 Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

“Very well,” they answered, “do as you say.”

Abraham says: He saw 3 Men...He did not say he saw 3 Visions or Apparitions, or illuminated figures, he said *Men* 2 Angels and the LORD....

Abraham spoke with them....If G-d did not appear in the figure of a Man or human being to Abraham as well as the Angels....Then how did G-d show himself to Abraham?


40 posted on 01/24/2011 12:28:16 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Netizen; blasater1960

There is a Book out..Not sure if anyone has interest..But it is a fascinating read and I am sure will cause much debate on the issue..

Lucifer’s Hidden Name
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(Gen. 1:1)
Now the earth was formless, and void, darkness was over the surface of the deep.
(Gen. 1:2)
There are two primary theories concerning how the earth came to be in a formless, empty, dark, and fluid condition. The first is called the gap theory. The second is called the chaos theory. The simplest way to explain the chaos theory is that when God created the Earth in Genesis 1:1,


41 posted on 01/24/2011 12:44:41 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: blasater1960
Sorry, here is the rest of it! It was basically step 1 in the seven steps or days of his creation program. In other words, God did not intend to leave the earth in a formless, empty, dark, and fluid condition. The gap theory, on the other hand, says that something happened to the earth between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to make it “formless and void.” This theory is based on the Hebrew translation of three words from Genesis 1:2—was, formless, and void. The word for was comes from the verb hayah, and it holds the key meaning of “I am” or “Yah” in the name of Yahweh. In fact, when God redeemed Israel from Egyptian bondage, he used this verb as his name when he said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, “say to the Israelites: “I AM (hayah) has sent me to you.” He also used it to explain Israel’s future regathering and salvation in the Old Testament book that means salvation, the book of Hosea. “After two days (or 2000 years) he will revive (hayah) us; on the third day (at the beginning of 3000 years) he will restore us, that we may live (hayah) in his presence.” (Hos. 6:2) The Talmud (ancient rabbinical writings) teaches that all of creation is embodied within the three letters that constitute this word, the letters Hei Yud Hei. With the letter Hei God created this world, and with the letter Yud, the world to come. In other words, the verb hayah connotes the meaning of life and salvation. It is the catalyst of God’s redemptive and creative works. A prime example of this can be found in the Messianic Psalm 118:21 and the Hebrew translation of “salvation.” I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become (hayah) my salvation. The stone the builders (Israel) rejected has become (hayah) the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Ps. 118:21, 22) The Hebrew translation for salvation is Y’shua. In fact, Y’shua (Jesus) used verse 22found in Matthew 21:42, to explain why the Jewish leaders had rejected him. Yet, notice how God strategically placed the verb hayah or “I AM” right in front of the two words that identify Y’shua as Moshiach. Let us now go the Gospel of John. Jesus replied, ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me…. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I AM!’(John. 8:54-58) This critical piece of evidence suggests that Y’shua is not only Israel’s Moshiach, but He is also the Great “I AM” from Exodus 3:14. Yet, when we place the verb hayah or “I AM” with the words formless and void, or tohu, bohu from Genesis 2 the ancient past now becomes our future. The Hebrew words tohu, bohu carry the translation of “a desolate, worthless thing.” Every occurrence of these words in the Scriptures is associated with God’s judgment. It implies that God intervened and that some catastrophe took place on planet Earth as a result of His displeasure. In the book of the prophet Jeremiah, we have a perfect example of the words’ hayah and tohu, bohu. At first glance, one might think that the text containing these words is the same as in Genesis 1:2. However, when we closely examine it, we discover that the prophet isn’t specifically referring to that text. there or God’s future judgment against mankind. I beheld the earth, and lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains and lo they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld and lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and His fierce anger. (Jer. 4:23–27 KJV) In this prophecy, we have God’s displeasure or fierce anger as the reason for the earth becoming “formless, and void.” Therefore, Genesis 1:1, 2 should be interpreted to read: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth became a desolate, worthless thing because of God’s judgment. Leaving us with the all-important question of why God would use a verb that means “I AM” as a linking verb to destruction? I believe the answer lies in the root translation of this verb. The Hebrew Septuagint (pre-Christian Greek version of the Jewish Scriptures called the Tanakh) has the key meaning of hayah as ego eimi ho on; translated it means “I myself am ego” or “I am He.” In addition, the Strong’s translators from The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible say that within this verb lies the self-designation of God, as “I will be God or I am God clearly a suggestive overtone that the judgments of God in Genesis 2 and Jeremiah 4 are perhaps linked by this so-called self-designation. The gap theory, on the other hand, says that something happened to the earth between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 to make it “formless and void.” This theory is based on the Hebrew translation of three words from Genesis 1:2—was, formless, and void. The word for was comes from the verb hayah, and it holds the key meaning of “I am” or “Yah” in the name of Yahweh. In fact, when God redeemed Israel from Egyptian bondage, he used this verb as his name when he said to Moses in Exodus 3:14, “say to the Israelites: “I AM (hayah) has sent me to you.” He also used it to explain Israel’s future regathering and salvation in the Old Testament book that means salvation, the book of Hosea. “After two days (or 2000 years) he will revive (hayah) us; on the third day (at the beginning of 3000 years) he will restore us, that we may live (hayah) in his presence.” (Hos. 6:2) The Talmud (ancient rabbinical writings) teaches that all of creation is embodied within the three letters that constitute this word, the letters Hei Yud Hei. With the letter Hei God created this world, and with the letter Yud, the world to come. In other words, the verb hayah connotes the meaning of life and salvation. It is the catalyst of God’s redemptive and creative works. A prime example of this can be found in the Messianic Psalm 118:21 and the Hebrew translation of “salvation.” I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become (hayah) my salvation. The stone the builders (Israel) rejected has become (hayah) the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes. (Ps. 118:21, 22) The Hebrew translation for salvation is Y’shua. In fact, Y’shua (Jesus) used verse 22found in Matthew 21:42, to explain why the Jewish leaders had rejected him. Yet, notice how God strategically placed the verb hayah or “I AM” right in front of the two words that identify Y’shua as Moshiach. Let us now go the Gospel of John. Jesus replied, ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me…. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I AM!’(John. 8:54-58) This critical piece of evidence suggests that Y’shua is not only Israel’s Moshiach, but He is also the Great “I AM” from Exodus 3:14. Yet, when we place the verb hayah or “I AM” with the words formless and void, or tohu, bohu from Genesis 2 the ancient past now becomes our future. The Hebrew words tohu, bohu carry the translation of “a desolate, worthless thing.” Every occurrence of these words in the Scriptures is associated with God’s judgment. It implies that God intervened and that some catastrophe took place on planet Earth as a result of His displeasure. In the book of the prophet Jeremiah, we have a perfect example of the words’ hayah and tohu, bohu. At first glance, one might think that the text containing these words is the same as in Genesis 1:2. However, when we closely examine it, we discover that the prophet isn’t specifically referring to that text. http://www.bibleprophecyinthenews.com/lucifer_s_hidden_name__PDF_.pdf In effect, it’s a prolongation of what occurred there or God’s future judgment against mankind. I beheld the earth, and lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, they had no light. I beheld the mountains and lo they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and lo there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld and lo the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities were broken down at the presence of the Lord and His fierce anger. (Jer. 4:23–27 KJV) In this prophecy, we have God’s displeasure or fierce anger as the reason for the earth becoming “formless, and void.” Therefore, Genesis 1:1, 2 should be interpreted to read: In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth became a desolate, worthless thing because of God’s judgment. Leaving us with the all-important question of why God would use a verb that means “I AM” as a linking verb to destruction? I believe the answer lies in the root translation of this verb. The Hebrew Septuagint (pre-Christian Greek version of the Jewish Scriptures called the Tanakh) has the key meaning of hayah as ego eimi ho on; translated it means “I myself am ego” or “I am He.” In addition, the Strong’s translators from The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible say that within this verb lies the self-designation of God, as “I will be God or I am God clearly a suggestive overtone that the judgments of God in Genesis 2 and Jeremiah 4 are perhaps linked by this so-called self-designation.
42 posted on 01/24/2011 12:48:27 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: blasater1960

YIKES!!!!

It did not come out with a COPY and PASTER from the pdf..

Here is the Link..

http://www.bibleprophecyinthenews.com/lucifer_s_hidden_name__PDF_.pdf


43 posted on 01/24/2011 12:49:43 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: jjotto

Right here is where you can see Genesis 18 verified when Abrahm saw the LORD withe the 2 Angels...

Jesus said: Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.’ ‘You are not yet fifty years old,’ the Jews said to him, ‘and you have seen Abraham!’ ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I AM!’(John. 8:54-58)

This critical piece of evidence suggests that Y’shua is not only Israel’s Moshiach, but He is also the Great “I AM” from Exodus 3:14.

Yet, when we place the verb hayah or “I AM” with the words formless and void, or tohu, bohu from Genesis 2 the ancient past now becomes our future.

The Hebrew words tohu, bohu carry the translation of “a desolate, worthless thing.” Every occurrence of these words in the Scriptures is associated with God’s judgment.

It implies that God intervened and that some catastrophe took place on planet Earth as a result of His displeasure. In the book of the prophet Jeremiah, we have a perfect example of the words’ hayah and tohu, bohu.


44 posted on 01/24/2011 1:16:07 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Yes, yes. I understand you cling to the New Testament as a way of explaining the Torah, just as some cling to the Book of Mormon to explain the Christian Bible, and just as some cling to Islam to explain the Christian Bible.

But God told the Jewish people when he gave them the Torah to go to the Kohen or Levite or judge with their questions and then to heed their words exactly (Deut 17).

And God told the Jewish people to ask their ancestors and elders about the proper service of God (Deut 32). He didn’t tell them to ask the gentiles.

Zechariah 8 does not say the Jews will grab a gentile and ask about God, it says gentiles will ask Jews!


45 posted on 01/24/2011 1:48:30 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

You do realize he was speaking about Gentile Pagans don’t you????

That really has nothing to do with my question anyway’s..

None of us born today are from the Ancient World, we are modern people that have the ability to read, research, understand and learn about anything, wether it is Science, Politics or Religion.

I don’t need to go to the President to understand the Constitution of the United States, and I don’t need to go to a Rabbi to learn about what is in the Torah.

I can read...

I don’t mean to be dis-respectful, but I was just asking a question about what Abrahm saw when he looked upon G-d who was outside of his tent.


46 posted on 01/24/2011 1:56:38 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: jjotto

What is the Christian Bible?

Isn’t the entire Holy Bible written by Jews?

With the exception of *luke* I don’t think a Christian or a Gentile had any say of what was written in the Holy Scriptures....


47 posted on 01/24/2011 2:09:52 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

The question wasn’t about how smart and self-reliant you are, it is about what God said.

Abraham and the angels:

http://www.tachash.org/metsudah/b04r.html#ch18


48 posted on 01/24/2011 2:10:18 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

Thanks for the Link.....

I know what G-d said..in reading your link, I see it is not much different in what is written in Genesis 18, however it does not say.What form the LORD had taken, unless I have *Missed* something in the verse...

I don’t see the *Physical Description* of G-d in front of Abraham.

Only the Angels that had the appearance of *Men* which makes sense, because when they left Abraham they went to *Sodom* and they were in the form of human males....

I guess if I could ask this question: Do you yourself believe G-d can take on the appearance of a *human Being*? and if you say no..then I would ask why not? and is there scripture validating that claim...

I would like to read on it....


49 posted on 01/24/2011 2:27:00 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

If one accepts that God is infinite, that idea has consequences, and our words and thoughts can reach their limits of understanding.

An infinite God can communicate with us in a way that we can understand. We can know God’s communication, but not God’s essence. God’s communication can be in the form of a man, as in the case of Abraham in Genesis 18, but it is not God’s essence.

And God prohibits us from worshiping His communications.


50 posted on 01/24/2011 3:27:25 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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