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A World In Revolt...Psalm 2
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/a-world-in-revolt-psalm-2/ ^ | 01-21-10 | Bill Randles

Posted on 01/21/2011 3:01:25 PM PST by pastorbillrandles

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To: jjotto

This is where I dis-agree with you.....

As I have said several times to you is that Abraham in Genesis 18 was conversing with a person a *Man* a Physical being, do you know of some other kind of entity that can eat human food and have 2 human feet???

Abraham bowed to him, and like on that other post..No Angels would require us to bow before them....

There is a saying: Religion is Man’s attempt to please GOD..(Legalism and Spiritualism) Jesus Christ is G-d coming down to Mankind....

What I at least hope you consider, is that ABraham was speaking to a prson he knew was the *LORD*


51 posted on 01/24/2011 4:08:16 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Thanks Tarah! I will check it out.


52 posted on 01/24/2011 5:38:39 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Ok..Sorry about that long text! It would paste right!

Looking at it made me dizzy!


53 posted on 01/24/2011 6:03:43 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP
Looking at it made me dizzy!

Me too. MY EYES!

54 posted on 01/24/2011 6:11:07 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP; All
Abraham says: He saw 3 Men...He did not say he saw 3 Visions or Apparitions, or illuminated figures, he said *Men* 2 Angels and the LORD....

Okay Tarah! They are three angels (angels do appear as men like the angel who wrestled with jacob) Each of the Angels has a specific mission. The first angel (man) tells Sarah of the news of her impending childbirth. His mission is then complete. He stays there as the other two angels go to Sodom and Gemorra. One Angel destroys the city. The other rescues Lot. Remember, when ever it comes to questioning whether or not it is G-d appearing as a person, think of this passage:

Deut 4:12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice.

15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman,

Very clear! You saw NO FORM! G-d has NO FORM. So when G-d uses angels as men to convey His message, we are not to make them god-men!

55 posted on 01/24/2011 7:05:15 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP; blasater1960; jjotto

You know what, instead of moving off to some book, why don’t you address #38 first.


56 posted on 01/24/2011 7:57:53 PM PST by Netizen
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To: blasater1960

Okay..A couple things here...Genesis 18..Abraham bows to the Angel of the LORD..Where is it that Man bows to any Angels in the Tanakh...

Further reading..The LORD sent 2 Angels to Sodom and then the conversation proceeds between Abraham and the Angel of the LORD....I find nothing in Genesis 18 that says Abraham was talking to someone with no form????

Abraham is asking the LORD how many will be spared in Sodom 50, 10 etc....

Now as I asked jjotto...G-d in his infinite nature is a Spirit being, where is it that says G-d cannot transform from a SPiritual being to a Physical being?

How can the Angels be greater than G-d if they can transform into Physical beings and G-d cannot??


57 posted on 01/24/2011 8:13:01 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Netizen

I am not sure I know..

Will research on your question....


58 posted on 01/24/2011 8:14:00 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP
What is the Christian Bible?

The New Testament is the Christian Bible. Notice they even have the nerve to call it New as if it somehow REPLACED the original.

Isn’t the entire Holy Bible written by Jews?

Only the Tanach, Old Testament. 72 Jews translated the first 5 books (The Torah) of the OT.

With the exception of *luke* I don’t think a Christian or a Gentile had any say of what was written in the Holy Scriptures....

The New Testament is NOT written by those they say. For instance.

According to Bishop Papias, (Papi/av), c. 125:

"Matthew compiled the reports in a Hebrew manner of speech, but each interpreted them as he could."

Matthew wrote in Hebrew, or more likely, in Aramaic which is a Hebrew dialect that was the language of Jesus' day. He did not write the original Gospel in Greek!

It is obvious that whoever wrote a book called Matthew, the book now known to Christianity and which opens the New Testament was obviously rewritten in Greek by some later person. (most likely written by a Gentile or heavily edited by one) It was probably at that time that the now-cherished traditions of the birth and death accounts were tacked onto the sayings of Jesus! This is also probably when they tried to de-judaize Jesus. jmo

This is what Papias says about Mark:
"And the presbyter would say this: Mark, who was indeed Peter's interpreter, accurately wrote as much as he remembered, yet not in order, about that which was either said or did by the Lord. For he neither heard the Lord nor followed him, but later, as I said, Peter, who as necessary would make his teachings but not exactly an arrangement of the Lord's reports, so that Mark did not fail by writing certain things as he recalled. For he had one purpose, not to omit what he heard or falsify them."

Begs the question. Just who is this Mark? And since this Mark, is an interpreter for Peter, that means that the Gospel of Mark (deceptively named), isn't even giving a first hand account. Also notice he wrote down the sayings and deeds of Jesus, which exclude the birth and death accounts as we now have them. Now if the "sayings or deeds" of Jesus were all that Mark wrote down, and if, as so many authorities now assert, the Gospels of Matthew and Luke are based on Mark, from where did the genealogies and the birth and death narratives in the Gospels come from? Even with these questions, keep in mind that this particular "Mark" wasn't personally present at the events and sayings he reports.

59 posted on 01/24/2011 8:28:40 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

Why don’t you do that then instead of veering off into 50 different directions.


60 posted on 01/24/2011 8:33:00 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen

This is what that Book has un-covered..The Gospel of Mark has been recorded in part of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Gospel of Matthew was written within a few years of Jesus’s death and resurrection..The accounts were an eye witness to
Christ..The language Jesus spoke was Hebrew and Aramaic he conversed with the Pharisees, as well as speaking Aramaic to people outside of Jerusalem....

There is no record at all that says a Gentile was involved in writng the Gospels...


61 posted on 01/24/2011 8:36:41 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Netizen

Jewish Apocalyptic Writings:
The “Dead Sea Scrolls”
OF THE JERUSALEM TEMPLE, ZEALOTS & PELLA-BOUND CHRISTIANS

“7Q5 = Mark 6:52-53”

http://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/DeadSeaScrolls/7Q5_mark.html

<< Mark 6:52 >>
For they considered not [the miracle] of the loaves: for their heart was hardened.

Mark 8:17 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked them: “Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened?

Mark 8:21 He said to them, “Do you still not understand?”


62 posted on 01/24/2011 8:42:03 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Angels can become physical because they are finite.

“[B]efore committing to the path of the Torah, the non-Jew’s intellectual sefirot are subordinate to the emotional/behavioral ones. Or, in other words, the non-Jew is innately earthbound. It is exactly to correct this estrangement from all that is Divine and heavenly in nature, that the seven Laws of Bnei Noach were given.

A non-Jew that commits to the Bnei Noach commandments, experiences a refinement of the seven emotional/behavioral powers within the soul. The individual’s physical aspect will begin to serve his or her intellect, and this makes it possible to see through the three uppermost levels of the soul and envision the One.

Simultaneously, by adopting the seven Laws of Bnei Noach, the individual reaches the understanding that rectification comes only with subservience to the Torah and as defined by its parameters; this, as opposed to the notion that an untamed desire to ascend spiritually is what brings one closer to God. It is then possible to truly comprehend that God has created a world full of opposites in order that they may consciously be united by all people, thereby revealing God’s ultimate Oneness.

When all this happens—and quite often it happens most suddenly—a non-Jew experiences a profound spiritual transformation. But when it does not (and indeed a non-Jew is likely to neglect his or her God-commanded obligations), he or she remains unable to apprehend God’s true unity, and is apt to fall into idolatry. This often manifests itself in a distorted worship of some sort—such as the stars, nature, yogis, the pantheon of “gods,” money, etc. All are forms of idolatry which can be defined as the worship of anything or anyone other than the One God. Even the seemingly innocuous modern day movie stars, music stars, and sports stars all contribute to distorting one’s ability to commit to worshiping the Almighty.”

- Rabbi Yitzchak Ginzburg
Kabbalah and Meditation for the Nations
Chapter 3: The Mystical Symbolism of the Seven Laws of Bnei Noach, part 2


63 posted on 01/24/2011 8:44:57 PM PST by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: TaraP; blasater1960; jjotto
The one that I find so profound has to do with the woman caught in Adultery..

The religious leaders thought they could trip Jesus up on the Law, when they brought the woman caught in the Act of Adultery to him....

The scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him.

But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

JOHN 8

Hate to tell you this, but John 8:1-11 are spurious. They are later insertions, they did NOT exist in the earliest manuscripts.

So much for profound.

64 posted on 01/24/2011 8:47:30 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

What does this have to do with anything?????


65 posted on 01/24/2011 8:54:08 PM PST by Netizen
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To: hlmencken3

Thank you for posting that.


66 posted on 01/24/2011 9:00:19 PM PST by Netizen
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To: hlmencken3

All people have fallen into idolatry wether Jew or Gentile...

Another problem I have is with who you say is a Non-jew? I have jews in my family, I have friends who are Jewish by both parents but don’t believe in G-d...I know a Jewish person who turned to Buddhism..I know many Jews who are Messianic, so it seems that claim can not be isolated to who’s who in my opinion....

I appreciate your comments, but I don’t find anything you have written in Scripture or Torah? If I have missed something, please direct me to scripture validating your claims...

I agree anybody worshipping some other than 1 G-d creator of Heaven and Earth falls into idolatry....

But I would like to ask you, if Angels are finite, why didn’t G-d just destroy them and Lucifer when they rebelled in the Divine Realms?


67 posted on 01/24/2011 9:04:39 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

If we go back to the time of the flood, when all the wicked perished and only the family of Noah survived, all the people that survived at that time were gentiles. The covenant made at that time, in Genesis 9, is known as the Noahic Covenant, and was for all people.

Later at Sinai another covenant was made, this time with those that became the Israelites. This covenant consisted of the same things as the Noahic covenant, but it had additional commandments as well. These additional commandments pertained to the Israelites because they were to be a light unto the nations. They were to be an example to the gentiles. The Israelites were to be a Holy nation. The extra commandments pertained to dietary guidelines for purity, they also contained commandments for their ‘priesthood’, and Sabbath keeping.

Now, back to Noah and his family. As people dispersed, they took the Noahic Covenant with them. This is why we see so many similarities between so many religions of the world. There are differences too. These differences are what we call today ‘traditions of man’. Remove these differences, and focus on the similarities and you find 3 things.

1. Belief in G-d

2. Instructions in moral conduct (we know them as the 10 commandments, but other religions call them other things, such as the 10 fold path, the negative confessions, the precious garland, the 10 charges, etc.)

3. The Golden rule, or Royal rule. We know this as ‘do unto others’.

Try your best to treat others as you would wish to be treated yourself, and you will find that this is the shortest way to benevolence. (Confucianism - Mencius VII.A.4 )

Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them. (Christianity - Bible, Matthew 7:12)

Tsekung asked, “Is there one word that can serve as a principle of conduct for life?” Confucius replied, “It is the word shu—reciprocity: Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you.” (Confucianism - Analects 15.23)

Confucious predates Yehoshua (Jesus) by about 500 years.

Baptism is a man made tradition. G-d knows your heart, your every thought. He knows if you belong to Him or not. He doesn’t need baptism, an outward sign to know if you love Him. Your actions and thoughts will tell him all He needs to know.

There is One G-d, not two, not three. One.

G-d didn’t expect us to be ‘perfect’. He knew that we would at times fail. This is why He gave us repentance and prayer. When you fall, get back up, acknowledge your shortcoming and strive to do better next time. G-d forgives as often as necessary, all we have to do is repent and ask for forgiveness.

Proverbs 24
16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, but the wicked stumble under adversity.

G-d/YHWH is our savior, there is no other. We do NOT need a mediator, G-d knows our hearts and thought before we even think them.

Be good to people, especially those in need. Help others.

It isn’t about labels. G-d didn’t give a name to the faith He wanted people to practice. He simply asked us to obey His instructions. Those instructions are more important than any label. You either belong to G-d, or you don’t.

When a gentile strays from the Noahic covenant, they stray back into paganism, but, they can return to G-d at any time.

In Jeremiah YHWH promises the descendants of Israel (who, through captivity, exile, and intermarriage with Gentiles became assimilated and inculturated Gentiles today) that they will find “grace in the wilderness” (verse 2).

They returned to YHWH.

The thing about the Noahic and Mosaic Covenants is that they are bound together by their Commandments, they complement each other, they strive for the same goal.

Yehoshua was Jewish. He was not ever a Christian.


68 posted on 01/24/2011 9:10:58 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP
Another problem I have is with who you say is a Non-jew? I have jews in my family, I have friends who are Jewish by both parents but don’t believe in G-d...I know a Jewish person who turned to Buddhism..I know many Jews who are Messianic, so it seems that claim can not be isolated to who’s who in my opinion....

That's because you are not separating Jewish the faith from Jewish the bloodline.

Maybe this will help a little.

These are the various types of people we are dealing with in the first century.


69 posted on 01/24/2011 9:16:16 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen

So let me put this simply if I can...

You see alot of *legalism* with the relationship between Mankind and G-d?

Does *works* enable *Man* to boast? Meaning one man can say I know G-d better or I have better favor with G-d because of my legalistic and spiritualistic knowledge and behavior of G-d?

Do you see Mankind spending an infinite time always trying to please G-d?


70 posted on 01/24/2011 9:22:01 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Of course not. By trying to keep His instructions we can be closer.

There is a mark of G-d, just as there is a mark of the beast. The mark of G-d is his Torah, Divine instruction.


71 posted on 01/24/2011 9:28:17 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP
Do you see Mankind spending an infinite time always trying to please G-d?

Yes, that is why Yehosua told people to repent, to keep G-d's commandments.

Matthew 3
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 3:
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

What sort of fruits do you think he meant? Bananas, apple? WORKS!

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.

72 posted on 01/24/2011 9:33:08 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP
Do you yourself believe G-d can take on the appearance of a *human Being*?

Numbers 23
19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?


73 posted on 01/24/2011 9:39:44 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen

You know I have been reading all your posts, and something came to me that I would like to share with you.....

I speak on another site with many people who have abandoned G-d faith and religion and are really hostile to G-d, they blame religion for all the hate and War in the world, they could care less about Israel, and one of the main things they constantly tell me, is that the G-d of the Old testament is Cruel, Evil and hates people, as I always bring in the love of Christ, his Gospel teachings and his love of trying to reconcile Sinners to a Holy Just G-d.

YET:
They always throw scripture at me how YAWEH killed babies and children in Noah’s flood, how GOD has been punishing the Jews by letting them spend 40 years in the Wilderness, they go on about the Canaanites and on and on about the Monster they think the G-d is off the Old Testament.

They say many Atheist and Secular people do good things and do not need a G-d to be a decent human being and do the right thing, and other writings have taught on the Ten Commandments like the Code of Hammurabi ...

You seem to be or have a very legalistic idea of G-d as someone who just wants *Obedience* lastly you said: The thing about the Noahic and Mosaic Covenants is that they are bound together by their Commandments, they complement each other, they strive for the same goal.

What is that goal? and when will that goal finally be completed?


74 posted on 01/24/2011 9:40:20 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP; hlmencken3
What is that goal? and when will that goal finally be completed?

That goal is spiritual perfection as hlmencken3 mentioned, and someday, yeah I think it will.

By your own admission, the G-d of the OT is NOT the same as the god of the NT. That should tell you something. Things/people that are impure cannot be in G-d's presence. That's why we have to keep trying to improve ourselves.

Luke 18
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.

First off, Jesus is pointing out that he is NOT G-d. Second, keep the commandments.

75 posted on 01/24/2011 9:51:41 PM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen

Maybe we can see it this way...

The OT- Is Man’s Attempt to please GOD

The GOSPEL- Is GOD reaching down to Mankind...

One thing I have learned everyone will see the G-d the way they want and that is not going to change anytime soon...

It was nice chatting with you this evening...

:)


76 posted on 01/24/2011 10:03:27 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP
....I find nothing in Genesis 18 that says Abraham was talking to someone with no form????

No...I guess i wasnt clear. G-d never appears in a form (Deut 4) because people would then worship the form and that is EXACTLY what G-d wants to never have happen. NEVER WORSHIP A FORM.

77 posted on 01/24/2011 10:08:57 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: TaraP

Yes, maybe tomorrow you can come back and actually address several of my posts to you.


78 posted on 01/24/2011 10:16:40 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP
The GOSPEL- Is GOD reaching down to Mankind...

More like the Torah is YHWH reaching down to mankind.

79 posted on 01/24/2011 11:53:11 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

I really can’t think of any response to someone who thinks angels are infinite beings!

Except maybe, “Look up the definition of ‘infinite’ in a dictionary”?


80 posted on 01/25/2011 6:25:07 AM PST by hlmencken3 (Originalist on the the 'general welfare' clause? No? NOT an originalist!)
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To: Netizen

This scripture in Matthew talks about what you were asking..

Matthew 25:73
They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

I have to say this if you don’t mind, you making a claim that the Gospels are un-true or did not happen is no different that Atheists saying there is no proof of G-d or that he was involved in writing the Bible...

If you think it is different how...

LOL..Not that this is funny but just ironic I come here in defense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and I go to the other secular site and have to defend the entire Bible that it’s not a fairytale and that 1 G-d exists that was the Creator of all created.

Many young people today are giving up on religion, they have no interest in G-d and the Bible...Very sad, but a Sign of the Times...


81 posted on 01/25/2011 10:00:53 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: hlmencken3

Well maybe I don’t understand what you are saying, but from what I read, the LORD has not exterminated the Angels.

Otherwise he would of already obliterated Satan and 1/3 of the Angels he banished from the Heavenly Realms...

Maybe I am missing something, but I just do not see in Scripture where Angels have been exterminated.

I see many have been banished...


82 posted on 01/25/2011 10:03:58 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Netizen

I have another question for you...I would like to present a
scenario to you...Say the *Jesus story* never came about, the Jews had the Torah and the Gentile Pagan world went along living thier life....

What makes you think from Torah or the Tanakh that the Pagan world would of ever embraced the laws of Noah? Many ancient civilizations I have read about lived in Peace, were successful in there work, had and lived by a secular Code of Ethics and had no need for the G-d of the Jews..

Not every civilization was ruthless tyrannts like the Roman Soldiers and the constant wars in the Ancient Middle East....

So giving that scenario, how would the world of progressed in wanting to embrace *monotheism* when they had no need for it, and the Ancient Jewish People were not mandated by Elohim to spread the Laws of Noah.

The Ancient Jews were constantly persecuted by Pagan Societies they ahd no interest in loosing there lives by spreading the Laws of Noah, which civilizations had no interest in....

http://history-world.org/ancient_civilization.htm


83 posted on 01/25/2011 10:16:57 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

You didn’t answer any of my questions at all AND you are using a particular source to verify itself. lol


84 posted on 01/25/2011 10:19:00 AM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

Here, I’ll repost it for you so you don’t have to scroll up.

The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing during the second half of the first century AD, produced two major works: History of the Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews, and he had not one word to say about this most extraordinary occurrence. Fifty days after the alleged event, Peter was giving a speech recorded in Acts 2, but said nothing about the saints rising. Paul, who spoke at great length (1 Corinthians 15) to convince his listeners that Yehoshua’s resurrection had occurred, had nothing to say about it either.

The appearance of these bodies “unto many” must have been the sensation of a lifetime for the residents of Jerusalem. If this remarkable event actually happened, why did only Matthew report it? About twenty percent of the gospels is repetition so it is not as if New Testament writers did not like to repeat what others have written; repetition of the most mundane events occurs everywhere, so why didn’t Mark, Luke, John, Peter, or Paul write about the dead bodies of the saints marching through Jerusalem, appearing unto many?

Also, how come Matthew doesn’t think we should know the names of the saints that rose from their graves? Why doesn’t he tell us with whom the bodies of the saints met, and what they said—assuming they said anything, and where they went after their appearance unto the many? Did the bodies of the saints dutifully return to their graves after a polite visit, or did they remain for years among the residents of Jerusalem? Is there proof for this event that has so many unanswerable questions?


85 posted on 01/25/2011 10:20:44 AM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

You’re obviously not reading the posts.


86 posted on 01/25/2011 10:24:33 AM PST by Netizen
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To: Netizen

From what I have read about it...

If you are asking me if I have solid *Proof* for this, not I don’t, but your claims are not verified by Proof as well..

We are lead by *Faith* not *Proof*

And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

Christ’s, and the accomplishment of a prophecy in Isaiah 26:19.(But your dead will live, LORD;
their bodies will rise—
let those who dwell in the dust
wake up and shout for joy—
your dew is like the dew of the morning;
the earth will give birth to her dead.

And they rose in the same bodies in which they before lived, otherwise they could not be called their bodies, or known by those to whom they appeared: but who they were is not to be known; some have thought them to be the ancient patriarchs, as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.

In the Septuagint on Job 42:17, Job is said to be one of them, and a tradition is there recorded..

And so Job died, an old man and full of years.

“it is written, that he rose with whom the Lord rose.

But it should seem rather, that they were some later saints, such as Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, John the Baptist himself, good old Simeon, Joseph the husband of Mary, and others, well known to persons now alive. Some think they were such, as had been martyrs in the cause of religion; and so the Persic version renders the words, “and the bodies of many saints who suffered martyrdom, rose out of the graves”.


87 posted on 01/25/2011 10:36:35 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: Netizen

There is *Evidence* that “Flavius Josephus* knew of Christ...

The following excerpt contains the testimony of Josephus about Jesus Christ in paragraph 3. This famous paragraph is known as the “Testimonium Flavianum” in Latin, or “The Testimony of Flavius.” This reprint is from “The New Complete Works of Josephus”, translated by William Whiston, with commentary by Paul L. Maier. Copyright 1999 by Kregel Publications. Pages 590-591. I have reproduced the William Whiston translation of “Jewish Antiquities” here, including his footnotes.

3. (63) Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure.

He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. (64) And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross [2], those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day [3], as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named for him, are not extinct at this day.

http://www.theistic-evolution.com/josephus.html


88 posted on 01/25/2011 10:41:39 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP; Netizen; All
Hellllo Tarah- I am not sure exactly what you wanted me to see in this paper but I will just tell you the author is way off base.

His first big blunder is trying tell us that Jesus name means salvation. It does not. It is highly deceptive.

First of all, if you go to The Blue Letter Bible online and look up Jesus in the Greek Testament, his name is Ἰησοῦς or Yehoshua, Which means G-d is salvation. Christians call him Yeshua, which is Hebrew is יְשׁוּעָה which is the Greek form of Joshua. So, in Hebrew it is, יְהוֹשׁוּעַ which means salvation but the problem is, that word is a feminine noun and is NEVER used as a name for someone. The other Yeshua in Hebrew that is a name is יֵשׁוּעַ is pronounced the same way (not exactly but very close)and is spelled different! It does not have a HEY on the end. And it DOES NOT mean salvation...it means HE IS SAVED.

So it is total deception to use the name Yeshua=salvation. Jesus name was Joshua per the NT.

Then he says this: Recently I met with a wonderful Orthodox rabbi and asked him: “How would the Jewish people recognize Moshiach when he comes?” He told me, “Moshiach would fulfill a number of predetermined signs that are known only by the sages”

That is either a total lie or he was not talking to an Orthodox Rabbi. The moshiach will perform a number of tasks that are CLEARLY articulated in Tanakh(OT) and therefore it will take NO FAITH to believe that messiah has arrived because it will be plainly observed by ALL MANKIND. Jesus did not fulfill any of these tasks. Therefore he isnt the one.

Then he says: In fact, what I’ve found most interesting in my research of Judaism is the inability of modern Jewsnot counting messianic Jews who believe in Moshiach to reconcile how the Servant Songs of Isaiah 42 and 53 can be fulfilled in one person, namely Y’shua.

The inability of modern Jews to reconcile? This is bunk. The reason why Jews dont accept Jesus as the suffering messiah of Isaiah is because the text is about Israel-the jewish people and says so plainly.

Isaiah For I am the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;Since you are dear in My eyes, you were honored and I loved you. But you, Israel My servant(Singular), Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham, who loved Me, "You are My witnesses,"(Israel in the plural) says the Lord, "and My servant(Israel in the singular) whom I chose," And now, hearken, Jacob My servant(Singular), and Israel whom I have chosen...Remember these, O Jacob; and Israel, for you are My servant(singular); etc...

Isaiah clearly identifies the Servant who suffers...Israel! The jewish people. If you have any doubts, look at the Roman slaughter of the Bar Kochba rebellion, The Crusades, The Inquisition, The many pogroms of Europe, Jews slaughtered and kick out of every country in Europe. and the crowning achievement of the goyim, the Holocaust. Even today, only 60 odd years after the mass murder of the Nazi's, Jews are considered viruses, untermenchen, subhuman, pigs, monkeys, apes, demons, vampires, mongrels etc...the only way to stuff 1.5 million children and 4.5 million adults into ovens,mass graves, gas chambers is to first mar their visage beyond that of a man. Jesus, although scouraged, was still identifiable on the cross and no one thought of him as sub-human.

Then he says this: As a result, Jewish sages looked for a two-Messiah solution—one who would die for the sins of the people and another who would come to reign as king. They called the first Messiah ben Joseph (son of Joseph), and the second they called Messiah ben David (son of David). They taught that Messiah ben Joseph would be killed in the Battle of Gog and Magog and that the Messiah ben David would come, win the battle, and raise Messiah ben Joseph from the dead. Today, this theory still exists. However, many Jews, including some Orthodox Jews, have supplanted Messiah ben Joseph as the suffering servant with the theory that Israel is the suffering servant.

Wrong again. messiah ben joseph is prophsied to be killed in a great war Zech 12:10. A midrash (like a sermon) speculates that messiah ben Joseph will be the first of all the resurrections that we (the righteous of G-d) will all experience at the end of days. And he is STILL a different personage than messiah ben David. The two messiahs (two of many many messiahs mind you) are living at the same time. Cant be Jesus.

That is about as far as I want to go with this guy. He doesnt know what he is talking about.

89 posted on 01/25/2011 10:42:06 AM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Hey Blasater!

Glad to hear your opinion on this..What did you think of the part concerning *Islam* and Allah? I thought that was quite remarkable and how he equated that with the hidden name of *Lucifer*

Also do you believe the the *Gap Theory* that many ascribe to in Genesis 1 and 2?


90 posted on 01/25/2011 10:46:19 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: blasater1960

Oh,
One other thing I wanted to ask you....it was concerning his book, do you think the *Holocaust* was already being prophecized in the Book of Isaiah and Zachariah? he said that horror that the Jewish People went through was a *Sacrafice for Israel* so the land of Israel could be establised again as the prophets said...

I just never heard of it put that way in Scripture....


91 posted on 01/25/2011 10:51:55 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP; All
Well, on the Allah thing. We know that allah is the moon god and hence the crescent moon symbol. Lucifer is generally thought to mean morning star or day star, which is actually the planet Venus in astronomy. So to make a connection to the moon god may be a stretch. One, could say the moon is visible during the day too so...???

On the gap theory, it has been a while since I have studied that in detail but I personally believe the Genesis account is 6 creation periods or era's which is permissible in Hebrew. Yom echad, Day one, can be a non-24 hr period of time. G-d would have to be deceptive in order to accomplish a literal 7 day creation by giving the "appearance" of great age, including deceptively setting photons in motion from distant points in the universe to make it "look" like these objects were of acient origin. G-d is not a deceiver, therefore the creation periods must be long. Also, we are still in the 7th day or 7th era. The bible doesnt mention the end of the 7th day.

92 posted on 01/25/2011 11:06:17 AM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Okay..Thanks for answering....I am always reading and mainly about religion and the ancient world!

Sometimes quantum physics, but that takes some time!
Yikes!

Shalom!
Tarah!


93 posted on 01/25/2011 11:10:32 AM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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To: TaraP

Experts have already shown that the Josephus account was a forgery.


94 posted on 01/25/2011 11:22:25 AM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP

http://www.truthbeknown.com/josephus.htm


95 posted on 01/25/2011 11:28:38 AM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP
I have to say this if you don’t mind, you making a claim that the Gospels are un-true or did not happen is no different that Atheists saying there is no proof of G-d or that he was involved in writing the Bible...

Where did I say they were untrue? Which post specifically?

96 posted on 01/25/2011 11:31:30 AM PST by Netizen
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To: blasater1960
On the gap theory, it has been a while since I have studied that in detail but I personally believe the Genesis account is 6 creation periods or era's which is permissible in Hebrew. Yom echad, Day one, can be a non-24 hr period of time. G-d would have to be deceptive in order to accomplish a literal 7 day creation by giving the "appearance" of great age, including deceptively setting photons in motion from distant points in the universe to make it "look" like these objects were of acient origin. G-d is not a deceiver, therefore the creation periods must be long. Also, we are still in the 7th day or 7th era. The bible doesnt mention the end of the 7th day.

Interesting. The Maya's believe the present age will end in 2012 and that there have been several ages already. People tend to think the Maya's were saying that he world would end in 2012, but, that isn't what they were saying at all.

The ancient Egyptians too believed in many ages, one for each sign of the zodiac. I forget how many thousands of years each age was supposed to be.

97 posted on 01/25/2011 11:43:25 AM PST by Netizen
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To: blasater1960; TaraP
So it is total deception to use the name Yeshua=salvation. Jesus name was Joshua per the NT.

Maybe this will help TaraP out.

Some of the NT is accurate, some is in error. Some of the errors were sincere mistakes, some were deliberate mis-translations.

The discrepancy in Acts also shows that there are errors in the NT. When the Masoretic text of the O(riginal) Testament was translated into Greek, some deliberate mis-translations and or deliberate mis-transliterations occured.

Jewish Rabbis translated the first 5 books, but that is all that they translated. Which also might explain the falsification of Yeshua's name.

Anyone that thinks that Jewish parents, that were strong adherents to the Judaic principles and lived in a Jewish contextual setting would give their son a Greek name is lacking in common sense. 

The use of the name 'Jesus' is evidence that Christian leaders promote intentional error for the sake of tradition.

Whereas one could argue the early Greek name of Iesous may have been an innocent mistake, there is no excuse why today's Christian leaders continue to willfully promote a name for their messiah that is undeniably false.

The point is that there is a big difference between a translation and a transliteration, and 'Jesus' originates from a transliteration, NOT a translation of their Messiah's name. So, 'Jesus' is a defective pronunciation of the original Greek word, Iesous, which was a transliteration - NOT a translation - of their messiah's actual Hebrew name. The most profound fact, however, is that Christian leaders know this yet continue to intentionally misrepresent truth. They knowingly promote a false name for their messiah.

Acts 7 (KJV)
45 Which also our fathers that came after brought in with Jesus into the possession of the Gentiles, whom God drave out before the face of our fathers, unto the days of David;

Hebrews 4 (KJV)
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Acts 7 (NASB)
45 "And having received it in their turn, our fathers (1) brought it in with Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David.

Hebrews 4 (NASB)
8 For (1) if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.

In BOTH of these verses the person being referred to is Joshua - the servant of Moses that lead Israel into the promised land. The reason the KJV says 'Jesus' is because it comes from the exact same Greek word, Iesous, and the King James Version translators apparently did not catch the error.

These verses help to further understand the difference between translation and transliteration. 'Joshua' is NOT a transliteration, but it does come from the Greek word Iesous, which IS a transliteration. 'Joshua' is a correct translation from the original Hebrew and is the actual "english translation" of their messiah's name. The translators CORRECTLY rendered 'Joshua' because they knew it to be the TRUE translation of the original Hebrew name for the servant of Moses. In short, they ignored the Greek transliteration, Iesous, because they knew it to be faulty.

If the translators of Scripture elsewhere, especially in the O(riginal) Testament and also in most modern versions of the New Testament, CORRECTLY render the SAME Greek word, Iesous, as 'Joshua' in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, why do they refuse to correct the false rendering of 'Jesus' for the name of their messiah? IT IS THE SAME GREEK WORD! The English equivalent of their messiah's name is 'Joshua' (Yeshua, Yahshua, Yehosua), NOT 'Jesus'.

Why is their messiah's name correctly translated ONLY in the cases where it doesn't apply to him? Why does Christianity willfully refuse to correctly render their messiah's Hebrew name even when they correctly render the exact same Greek word in cases where he is not the one being referenced?

This shows that even translators know 'Jesus' is NOT correct.

There was no J common in the English language until around the 16th century. Prior to that time, those words now shown with a J were pronounced as though the J was a Y. So 'Joshua', even in English, is proven conclusively to be (Yeshua, Yahshua, or Yehoshua) when the original Y sound is used. Thus, it is IMPOSSIBLE for 'Jesus' to be anything close to the true name, because the 'J' sound did not exist when he was alive!

Did you catch that? The name 'Jesus' is proven to be incorrect simply from the fact the word 'Jesus' did not exist until only 500 years ago because there was no such thing as a J in the language!

This fact, alone, shows that 'Jesus' is a false name for their messiah.

IF the church can't even get the name right - one of THE most basic things - how can one believe their other doctrines are correct? If church leaders can't get the name right, I'm not going to trust them with anything else - especially not my eternal soul!



98 posted on 01/25/2011 12:00:05 PM PST by Netizen
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To: TaraP; All
Yes, the holocaust is definitely in Isaiah 53. Now we are at the point in Isaiah where the gentile Kings will be astonished...Is 52:15 and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.

This is a "picture" of the gentile kings (world leaders) being astonished at the rise of Israel from the ashheaps of history. For 2000 years the land of Israel has been a wasteland. The crusaders could not bring it back to life. The 1400 years of Mulim occupation left it a wasteland. Now after the gastly horrors of the Holocaust, the Jewish people return with NOTHING but the shirts on their backs to Israel. And after only 62 years, look at Israel! As of 2010, Israel ranks 17th among of the world's most economically developed nations, according to IMD's World Competitiveness Yearbook rankings. It has more start-ups than Silicon Valley and has the highest number of patents per capita in the world. Spiritually, the is more Torah learning now in Israel than at anytime in History!. Israel has had astoshing miracles of battle. It is a land of miracles!

Israel is afflicted by G-d for her sins butG-d never gave the nations permission to murder them by the millions. G-d will judge the nations harshly for that. The word holocaust means "whole burnt" like a sacrificial offering or korban. The Jewish people were in a sense collectively martyred. In doing so, they bore not their own sins, but the sins of the nations who participated in their murder. Again, G-d does not subject the Jewish people to murder. It is the gentile nations who sinned in slaughtering the Jews without cause.

99 posted on 01/25/2011 12:15:07 PM PST by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah and the Law, is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: Netizen

LOL..Yes GOD is so nit picky that the wording of his name is a make it or break it deal...

IMO that is utterly ridiculous...

How many gazillions have been on this earth??? Many tribes and civilizations have used a name or term for the *Christ*

GOD does not think like you, or any human being, he knows the heart, the mind and the soul of everyone on earth or who has been on earth.....

Yes Jesus was a Jew had a Jewish family and they gave him a hebrew name but that name is not what transformed people it was *Who he was* that transformed people....

I will let GOD be the one to decide on who he is going to punish for using a name in-correctly to different tribes and civilizations in the world....

Netizen,
No offense, but you make G-d sound like some Big Universal Angry King, ready to whip anyone with the infinite strap who is not obedient...

Give G-d a break he is more love than anger...

He is slow to anger and Wrath...

Every person I have asked why they believe in Jesus Christ is because of a *Transformation* the Holy Spirit....That is what transfomed them not a Biblical Classroom, where they said: Oh wow did you know Christ is the Son of GOD?....

So either the Holy Spirit is some greater false spirit than G-d that has transfomed millions of people on the earth for over 2000 years, or the Holy Spirit is the Spirit the Christ has blessed on those who believe....

.....

I respect very much the Jewish freepers and Noahides on Free Republic that have great knowledge of the Biblical texts and I have learned quite a bit, like from blasater1960, but my belief in *Christ* is something engrained in my heart and soul and nothing can remove it...

I guess G-d could but he hasn’t.....


100 posted on 01/25/2011 12:28:45 PM PST by TaraP (An APPEASER is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last)
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