Catholic Word of the Day: PRESBYTERIANS, 01-25-11

CatholicReference.net ^ | 01-25-11 | Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary

[Salvation]

Featured Term (selected at random):

PRESBYTERIANS

Members of various Protestant bodies, following in the tradition of John Calvin (1509-64) and his Scottish disciple John Knox (1513-72). The essential structural feature of historic Presbyterianism was that the Church's government should be in the hands of presbyters. Today, however, many Presbyterians hold that the Church founded by Christ contained episcopal and congregational, as well as presbyterian, elements. A typical Presbyterian church is governed by a hierarchy of authorities, each in the nature of a court: session, presbytery, synod, and general assembly, having clearly defined functions and specific directors.

The substance of Presbyterian belief is contained in the Westminster Confession of Faith, drafted by the Puritan English Parliament in 1643. Its main provisions are the Calvinist predestination belief that the Church founded by Christ was essentially invisible and "consists of the whole number of the elect," a spiritual and not bodily presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and a deference to civil authority that is characteristically Presbyterian. A new confession of the faith, issued by the American Presbyterians in 1967, left the Westminster Confession essentially untouched. Added to the group of now recognized statements of faith, however, was the Theological Declaration of Barmen (1834), published under Karl Barth (1186-1968) during the Nazi regime, to defend the Church's freedom from political oppression.

All items in this dictionary are from Fr. John Hardon's Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. Used with permission.

[Salvation]

Really, this appeared randomly!

[P8riot]

Presbyterian Word of the Day: CATHOLICS

[Salvation]

Catholic Word of the Day – links will be provided later by another FReeper.

 

Denial of Faith	Charisms of Service	Infanticide
Episcopal Conference	Eparchy	Righteous Anger
Ecclesiastes	Immodest Looks	Creation
Sigilum (Seal of Confession)	Aggiornamento	Actus Dei
Gradual	Presbyterians

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[OKSooner]

" Added to the group of now recognized statements of faith, however, was the Theological Declaration of Barmen (1834), published under Karl Barth (1186-1968) during the Nazi regime, to defend the Church's freedom from political oppression. "

Say what? Surely you meant to say that the Declaration of Barmen was issued in 1934, not 1834, and that Barth lived from 1886 to 1968.

This is confusing to those of us who aren't familiar with it.

Calvin was nuts, btw.

[Salvation]

That could be a possibility. LOL!

[Salvation]

I’m just copying off the website.....http://www.catholicreference.net/

[ReverendJames]

Calvin was nuts, btw.

Yeah, ever see the snowmen he built?

[OKSooner]

I don't mean to pick nits or to suggest poor writing on your part, but otherwise this Barth dude lived to be almost 800 years old, and he saw the nazis coming almost 100 years before their time, when he was way past 600.

This is important for many who are trying to make sense of how the current affairs of both the Protestant (me) and Catholic churches came to be.

You might want to drop your source a note...

[Flame suit] Calvin was nuts, and was a deleterious influence on Christianity. It would be helpful to get the dates right, even if the intent of the original writer is semi-obvious. :)

[Alex Murphy]

The substance of Presbyterian belief is contained in the Westminster Confession of Faith, drafted by the Puritan English Parliament in 1643. Its main provisions are the Calvinist predestination belief that the Church founded by Christ was essentially invisible and "consists of the whole number of the elect," a spiritual and not bodily presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and a deference to civil authority that is characteristically Presbyterian.

"In 1648, the first printing of the Larger and Shorter Catechisms of the Westminster Assembly were made available for distribution and sale in England and Scotland. They remain the clearest expressions of Reformed Protestantism ever formulated..."

- May 13, This Week in Religion History

Confession and Catechisms [introduction to the Westminster Confession of Faith]

The Westminster Confession of Faith
[from the Orthodox Presbyterian Church website]
Chapter 1: Of the Holy Scripture
Chapter 2: Of God, and of the Holy Trinity
Chapter 3: Of God’s Eternal Decree
Chapter 4: Of Creation
Chapter 5: Of Providence
Chapter 6: Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and of the Punishment Thereof
Chapter 7: Of God’s Covenant with Man
Chapter 8: Of Christ the Mediator
Chapter 9: Of Free Will
Chapter 10: Of Effectual Calling
Chapter 11: Of Justification
Chapter 12: Of Adoption
Chapter 13: Of Sanctification
Chapter 14: Of Saving Faith
Chapter 15: Of Repentance unto Life
Chapter 16: Of Good Works
Chapter 17: Of the Perseverance of the Saints
Chapter 18: Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation
Chapter 19: Of the Law of God
Chapter 20: Of Christian Liberty and Liberty of Conscience
Chapter 21: Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day
Chapter 22: Of Lawful Oaths and Vows
Chapter 23: Of the Civil Magistrate
Chapter 24: Of Marriage and Divorce
Chapter 25: Of the Church
Chapter 26: Of the Communion of Saints
Chapter 27: Of the Sacraments
Chapter 28: Of Baptism
Chapter 29: Of the Lord’s Supper
Chapter 30: Of Church Censures
Chapter 31: Of Synods and Councils
Chapter 32: Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead
Chapter 33: Of the Last Judgment

The Westminster Confession of Faith
[from the Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics website]
Westminster Confession of Faith - Chapter 1 - The Holy Scripture
Westminster Confession of Faith - Chapter 2 - Of God and the Holy Trinity
Westminster Confession - Chapter 3 - Of God's Eternal Decree
Westminster Confession of Faith - Chapter 4 - Of Creation
Westminster Confession - Chapter 5 - Providence
Westminster Confession - Chap 6 - Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and the Punishment thereof
Westminster Confession - Chap 7 - Of God's Covenant With Man
Westminster Confession - Chap 8 - Of Christ the Mediator
Westminster Confession - Chap 8 - Of Christ the Mediator
Westminster Confession - Chap 9 - Of Free Will
Westminster Confession - Chap 10 - Of Effectual Calling
Westminster Confession - Chap 11 - Of Justification
Westminster Confession - Chap 12 - On Adoption
Westminster Confession - Chap 13 - Of Sanctification
Westminster Confession - Chap 14 - Of Saving Faith
Westminster Confession - Chap 15 - Repentence unto Life
Westminster Confession - Chap 16 - Of Good Works

[rbmillerjr]

His many errors have left many astray on the bloom of a TULIP.

...and yes he was a maniac.

[P8riot]

We’ll save that for Reformation Day.

[OKSooner]

I met his great(x24 or so) grandson a couple of years ago.

[topcat54]

Calvin was nuts, and was a deleterious influence on Christianity.

Do you mean as opposed to the flaming Anabaptists of his day? What is your point of comparison?

[HarleyD]

Wow, I stopped before I got to Perseverance of the Saints!!! I need some work on my persevering. :O)

[Ciexyz]

Presbyterians have a very democratic form of church government starting with the local church. The board of Elders meets with the Minister to govern the local church, within the confines of church regulations established by the local Presbytery, which is answerable to the National Assembly. Unfortunately the Assembly is quite liberal, much moreso than the local churches. My cousin’s church in Pittsburgh successfully seceded from the Presbyterian Church USA - PCUSA - because of that liberalism.

[RnMomof7]

Actually Presbyterian is a form of church government, not doctrine.

There are other churches that hold to the doctrine of Grace that are congregational or have a more Episcopal form of church government BUT they are not presbyterian, they do not hold to the Westminster confession , they have their own confession of faith.

For Baptists it is the First London Baptist Confession of Faith (1644/1646) or the Second London Baptist Confession of Faith (1689).

For the reformed Episcopal it would be the Episcopal 39 Articles of Religion 1801

For the Lutheran Augsburg Confession

For the Dutch reformed it would be the Heidelberg Catechism

The Wesminister is unique to confessional presbyterians

This author is in error tying the form of church government with the doctrine. One needs only look at the Presbyterian church USA to see a church that maintains a presbyterian government but is universalist in believe and that does not hold exclusively to the Westminster Catechism.

This is a very simple thing, and it is troubling that someone that claims any knowledge would teach an error like this

[RnMomof7]

It is actually a very biblical forum of church government ..it appears to be close to the 1st century church

[Campion]

One needs only look at the Presbyterian church USA to see a church that maintains a presbyterian government but is universalist in believe and that does not hold exclusively to the Westminster Catechism.

This is a very simple thing, and it is troubling that someone that claims any knowledge would teach an error like this

Fr. Hardon's "Modern Catholic Dictionary" was published in 1980. The PCUSA probably wasn't quite as far off the rails back then.

[Judith Anne]

Can you do a comparison of Scripture and Presbyterian church government, so that everyone can see what you mean?

[RnMomof7]

Fr. Hardon's "Modern Catholic Dictionary" was published in 1980. The PCUSA probably wasn't quite as far off the rails back then.

That really doesn't matter.. there are no Congregational or Episcopal Presbyterians as he states .... He is assuming that Presbyterian also describes doctrine and it does not ...

[RnMomof7]

The presbyterian government is composed of ruling and teaching elders (pastors). The church in scripture outlines the roles in the church'''That is pastor, elder, deacon, teachers.

Christ alone is head of the Church (Eph. 5:23; Col. 1:18)
Elders are chosen by the people (Acts 6:1-11)
All elders are equal (Tit. 1:5, 7; Acts 20:17, 28)
Each church has at least two elders (Acts 14:23)
Elders are ordained by presbytery (1 Tim. 4:14)
The right of appeal (from smaller to wider assembly—Acts 15)

Actually our form of government (representative government) finds its roots in the presbyterian form of church government

Good article

[aruanan]

Once upon a time, before anything was created, when God in three persons dwelt happily in and of themselves, God the Father said, “Hey, I’ve got a great idea. We’re going to create a universe by and through you, God the Son, and I am, before you create anything at all, going to determine how every single bit of it, from start to finish, from the beginning to the end, from the least quark to the biggest bang, is going to go."

"We will create an entire human race from an original male and female whom I will cause to be tempted and sin and, because of that, subject the rest of the human race to untold millennia of misery and suffering and death, all for my greater glory because it seemed good to me, all the while promising them a means of salvation from that misery I’ve imposed on them as a result of their sin against me that I will have preordained."

"And a really cool thing is that we will tell them that if they listen to what they are told and follow it faithfully, we will hear them and answer them and heal their land but they won’t know that in actuality they won’t be able even to try unless we make a few of them do it and the vast majority we will keep in the bondage of sin and degradation and then hold them responsible for not doing what we created them to be unable to do."

"And the best thing of all, God the Son, is that because I will say that the sin that I will ordain and set into motion, to the very degree and extent that is my good pleasure according to the unfathomable counsel of my will, cannot be forgiven without a sacrifice and since no human will be able or capable or even willing to provide that sacrifice, because I will have made them unable, incapable, and unwilling, YOU are going to have lay aside your glory and the fellowship we enjoy to enter the human race and grow up among those who--but for the few I will have made to act to the contrary--won’t listen because I will have made them unable to hear, who won’t see because I will have blinded them to the truth, and who won’t ask for forgiveness for something they were hopeless to avoid doing because I will have made them incapable of doing so and then have the ever loving crap beaten out of you, scourged to within an inch of your life, before being made to carry the instrument of your torture and death before jeering crowds, because I will have made them do that, to the place where others, because of my decree before the foundations of the earth according to my own good counsel, will drive spikes through your wrists and hoist you up to hang between criminals—and the best part of all, at that moment you are about to die, I’ll turn my back on you!"

"But it will all be okay, right, because in three days, I’ll raise you from the dead so that we can say that this proves you are who we already know you are without ever the necessity of our creating a universe or even a human race to begin with and then declare faith in that as the ostensible means by which we confer saving grace on the humans but without telling them, until John Calvin comes along, that what they think is turning to us in faith to freely receive the gift of forgiveness and salvation is every bit as programmed and inevitable as the fate of the majority of the human race on their way to burn and suffer eternally in the lake of fire for refusing to believe that which I will have made them unable to believe since before I will have ever created anything at all, and this all for my praise and glory. How does that sound?”

And does God the Son say, “Wait a second, you’re going to create a universe with a world of conscious beings made in our image, screw them over in the most horrendous ways imaginable, hold them responsible for what you’re going to compel them to do, and then, near the end of the whole shebang, make ME suffer for every sin they ever committed without their ever having had the capacity to decide otherwise and die so that those who don’t even have the capacity to make anything but a faux choice will be “saved”? And that will make the relationship you and I and the Holy Spirit are sharing right now better how?” or does he say, “Hey, that sounds great and we’ll call it the GOOD NEWS!”

[NCLaw441]

Perhaps it is a good thing that none of can authoritatively say what the nature of God is. At some point we all rely on faith. For me personally, I am comfortable with the concept of God who is powerful enough to create us free enough so that He does NOT know how we are going to choose (although I imagine, having seen human nature long enough, He, as we, can usually make a pretty good guess).

But in my view, it does not matter so much. God is who He is, and our “decision” on what to believe about God does not change Him. While I believe that God is all good and yet just, there is nothing my belief could do if He did create the earth and man under the scenario you describe. God COULD be less than just, and less than good. Heck, I’ve read enough Greek and Roman mythology to know that.

The bottom line (for me, anyway) is that I cannot know, but I can believe in God, and in the Bible as His holy word, and in His Son as the salvation of the world. There are pretty good arguments based on human evidence for these things, but one does have to be willing to believe.

I always chuckle when I hear of someone commenting along these lines: “I could never believe in a God who.... (insert any number of things here, usually something like: lets innocent people get sick and die, while evil people prosper, etc.)” I certainly PREFER an all-loving, just yet merciful God, but I am just smart enough to know that I am not smart enough to define God. He is who He is.

[Judith Anne]

Absolutely outstanding post. Calvinism in a “nut” shell.

[Judith Anne]

Truthfully, I have never seen a Presbyterian say anything contrary to your post.

One of life’s great mysteries, I guess.

[Judith Anne]

Did you see post 23? I wonder why it’s not getting any comments from our separated brethren?

[Judith Anne]

Meanwhile, they are ALL OVER the Catholic threads.