Posted on 01/31/2011 7:43:38 AM PST by Objective Scrutator
When you bite into a delicious pizza, succulent sandwich or luscious lamb chops, are you possibly eating food that has been sacrificed to idols?
An outspoken American pastor says yes, and he's sounding the alarm for Christians to be aware of the Islamic influence he calls "backdoor Shariah" now nibbling its way across the fruited plain.
At issue, says Mark Biltz of El Shaddai Ministries in Bonney Lake, Wash., is eating food that's "halal," in other words "lawful" or "permitted" for the Muslim diet.
Muslims join many Jews and some Christians in avoiding the consumption of certain animals such as pigs and birds of prey, but those of the Islamic faith also have their meat blessed in the name of their god, Allah.
"From the Christian standpoint, Allah would be an idol," Biltz told WND.
In a sermon last weekend which he posted online, Biltz explained, "In order for it to be halal, they have to slaughter the animal facing Mecca ... and they have to say this prayer about Allah is great and greater than all other gods. Muslims can only eat food that is halal, that has been sacrificed to their idol, Allah ... and with Allah's name prayed over it."
"You could be eating beef, chicken, etc., offered up to Allah and not even know it. I can just imagine at a Passover Seder the caterer unbeknownst to anyone is serving halal meat! It could be on your pizza without you knowing it, or at your favorite restaurant. People don't realize they could be eating meat sacrificed to idols!"
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
“Cat: the other white meat.”
Farewell to you, too. I plan to.
“So many recipes, so little time ...”
>>You, like most Christians, need to learn context.<<
I don’t think that is the issue here. The context was implied, at least in what I was reading. And the context of Christianity itself supports DannyTN’s point.
I suspect that nobody on this thread would eat anything that had “HALAL” on the package, and for the very reason you give - supporting the religious belief it involves.
Your remark was also condescending.
>>According to the Apostle Paul, eating food that you KNOW was sacrificed to idols is no different from eating food you didn’t know was sacrificed to idols <<
I disagree. I think that is why Paul had a “DADT” attitude about it. And yes, it was about the weaker brother.
The spirit of this is pretty clear. Food is food, but you are not to “appear” to be supporting the false religion.
If there is some guy in the kitchen at your favorite restaurant “sacrificing” the meat before he cooks it, and you don’t know it, you need not even think about it. OTOH, if there is the phrase “HALAL Restaurant” in big neon letters at the door of the restaurant, you should avoid it. Even then,there is nothing wrong with the food, but the reason for avoiding it is to keep from damaging the “lesser brother”.
Don’t even get me started about drinking alcohol. That one is a REAL conundrum - for some.
That is one of the best posts in this thread.
This is stupid. You mean you should not eat food that a Jew has blessed, or I shouldn’t eat food that a Christian has blessed? Silly.
Why should anyone care?
Seriously.
Depends, the rest of the chapter makes clear that what comes out of the mouth reveals what's in the heart. So if you recited the Koran to show people how false it is, then no. But if you recited the Koran, because in your heart you were hoping the Koran was true instead of those original scriptures, then yeah, definitely.
I’m glad to know this. I do not want to support in any way Islam or muslims.
I avoid most anything that caters to Muslims any more. I didn’t use to care, but I’m fed up with all the demands that we Gentiles bend over and kiss Muslim butt. So now, I avoid their businesses.
>>
Selective quoting can be a bad thing. <<
Yes it can. But I’m missing your point. The part you bolded is a foregone conclusion. Several of us have been discussing that aspect. It is why I made my comment on alcohol.
>>There is no reason for me to avoid it.<<
Regarding HALAL, my reasons are that I don’t want to support anything islam related. I am thinking more and more that there is a strong possibility that the false religion of the end discussed in Revelation will be islam.
I do see from the rest of your post that we are in agreement that the pastor in the article is wrong in what he is claiming here.
“No different than eating Hebrew National hot dogs.”
Kosher food is not “blessed” nor “sacrificed to idols”; kosher food refers to the manner of supervision, selection, slaughter and preparation.
Generally, it is special treatment for religious purposes.
“Farewell to you, too.”
Oh, that wasn’t me. That was the last line of the letter from Peter to the Gentile churches “farewell.”
One reason I love Free Republic is that there are so many people with even less of a sense of humor than I.
Kosher is distinct from halal, in that Kosher has unecessary (for Christian gentiles) precautions taken in in preparation.
Halal, in contrast, is pagan, and sacrificed to a demon.
While Mathew makes clear that this would not make one “unclean” (in the Jewish sense), Acts and Corinthians makes clear such pagan-sacrificed meat should be avoided.
It’s black-letter, New Testament stuff.
Surprised at the resistance of supposed sola scriptura people here.
LOL.
I’m sorry, I took your post as being mad that I said “Fairwell” -— like I was posting and running.
I didn’t want to offend you.
LOL! I was running out the door to Walmart, having been informed by my egregious offspring that they were getting ready to eat the dog.
Anyway, I hope your day is going fine.
Only for conscience sake, that is, for the sake of the conscience of one offering the meat sacrificed to idols. We need to be cautious for the sake of weaker brethren. The Christian is under no absolute prohibitions in eating meat sacrificed to idols.
Besides, no one here has established that this is food actually “sacrificed to idols” in any biblical sense. It’s merely a WorldNutDaily author repeating the theory of this right-wing pastor.
Frankly, it makes Christians who repeat it look foolish, but that’s nothing new.
Halal, in contrast, is pagan, and sacrificed to a demon.
Really? (sigh)
So I went and read Halal Guidelines for Food Preparation and nowhere in the text did I see anything about sacrificing the meat to demons. In one document I did see the requirement for the slaughterer to utter "Bismillah" while performing the slaughtering, but that requirement is absent in this document.
Quite frankly I don't see much difference in Halal foods and the freakishly anal-retentive regulations issued out and enforced by the USDA and FDA.
If you are self-classified as "weaker brother" and find your soul in mortal danger, then I would advice against Halal and Kosher foods and eat pigs, dogs, rats, eagles, bears, tigers and other non-demonic foods - Just to make sure that God still approves of you.
"At a restaurant, you're not going to know [if the food is halal] unless you ask,"Hmmm, and what did Paul tell us?
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake; 26 for "the earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness." (1 Cor. 10)The point is, you shouldn’t really care, even if it were “sacrificed to idols” (which it’s not).
Why are Christians so dumb?
I don’t think Christians are any dumber than other religions that won’t eat pig, seafood, mix certain foods, or who think cows are some kind of religious icon.
Dumb is in the eyes of the beholder.
“Really? (sigh)”
Yes. allah is a false god. Or do you also deny the crucification? The fundamental core of halal slaughter is facing Mecca, praying to this false god, and sliting the throat of the animal.
“If you are self-classified as “weaker brother” and find your soul in mortal dange”
No, merely one who can read.
I don’t avoid halal for myself, but do so for the weaker brother -— the weaker brother being the “all roads lead to heaven” brother who might be persuaded that islam is acceptable by not my rejecting its practices.
Since Allah doesn’t exist, I don’t think that prayers to him are going to change anything in the food I’m going to eat.
I feel safe from Allah.
From the islamic idiots? Not so much.
Acts 15:29 (New International Version, ©2011)
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Seems to conflict with Paul, eh?
But not really.
Paul was talking about PERSONAL cleanliness and ability to talk to God -— diet being completley unimportant.
Acts, in contrast, was talking about being a stumbling block to weak brotherws who believe all roads lead to heaven by appearing to endorse a pagan religion like islam.
The posters here who are mocking the avoidance of halal meat are selfish, and not caring for the weaker brothers.
islam and other pagan religion must be rejected completely, down to their food.
I Corinthians 8.
“Acts and Corinthians makes clear such pagan-sacrificed meat should be avoided.
Only for conscience sake”
A very pharsitical answer.
The text says “You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. “
“Must”
Not “it’s a good idea”
“Must”
Is “sexual immorality” also OK? You know, since no one gets hurt? It’s the same list.
It amazes me the ability people have to justify actions that are clearly stated as “don’t do it.”
Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam, spam spam.
You're ignoring the writings of Paul.
Besides, ain't much idol sacrificing going on around these parts.
Paul didn’t think eating the meat sacrificed to idols was a problem, and up to now, no one hyperventillates over kosher food in the US, so this is complete nonsense.
and Christ didn’t get his knickers in a knot about food laws either, come to think of it.
Thank you for being an excellent defender against such nonsense.
To purchase halal food is to fund the Muslim Brotherhood and CIAR. The Bible, in its infinite wisdom, recognized this. Apparently, so-called “conservatives” don’t mind completely ignoring passages of Scripture or providing terrorists with resources as long as they get their delicious meat. I have no idea why people react with such hostility towards requiring all food to be marked as halil; if we’re going to keep the FDA around, they might as well do something useful.
1 Corinthians 10 28 But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the one who told you and for the sake of conscience. 29 I am referring to the other person’s conscience, not yours. For why is my freedom being judged by another’s conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31 So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God. 32 Be without offense toward the Jews, and toward the Gentiles, and toward the Church of God, 33 just as I also, in all things, please everyone, not seeking what is best for myself, but what is best for many others, so that they may be saved.Take particular note of verses 28 and 33. When you eat food which has been sacrificed to an idol, you commit a sin against your brother. That is the only moral failing one has from eating halal food, but it is a moral failing regardless. You may not slide into damnation yourself, but you cause your neighbor to. Also, take your anti-Christian bigotry elsewhere.
IT'S the fact of "LEGITIMIZING" the Mooozies!
That and my NOT wanting to support them in any way, shape or form as they labor (stealthily) towards ever more of injecting Islam/Sharia into our lives, be it a Mosque at Ground Zero, a Crescent-Shaped Memorial in Pa to honor the heroes of Flt 93 or, Sharia ("No Interest") banking, Courts making rulings based on the Qur'an, eating any foods which they insist must be slaughtered according to Islam in order to be considered "acceptable," etc.
Thank you for making the point so many on this thread managed to miss.
“Generally, it is special treatment for religious purposes. “
Yes of course (and not generally but specifically), but my point is (and feel free to read Kosher websites as I do, since I keep Kosher) is that Kosher food is “not “blessed” nor “sacrificed to idols”. Kosher means “fit” and “refers to the manner of supervision, selection, slaughter and preparation” in accordance with Jewish law.
Only is the brother is offended. There is no absolute language in the passage. In this case the situation dictates the behavior.
Otherwise Paul’s command to “ask no questions” makes no sense. You would ALWAYS be required to ask if the meat had been offered to idols if it were an absolute matter.
Also, take your anti-Christian bigotry elsewhere.
To the RM: I don’t see what that comments was necessary or warranted.
Paul puts his question forward in part because they are making references to permitting meat forbidden in the Mosaic times, and in part because unwittingly eating Halal is not a sin against yourself. Knowingly eating Halal is.
Also, I stated that you were being an anti-Christian bigot by your asking, “Why are Christians so dumb?” Sorry if my comment didn’t provide the appropriate context.
Yes, I know. My point was that it’s done entirely for religious purposes. Non-Jews don’t generally get the heebie jeebies from the thought of consuming Kosher food.
This view is found neither in the Mosaic Law nor in Paul. Paul especially NEVER says that eating meat sacrificed to idols in and of itself is sin. The only sin is that caused by giving offense to others. Period.
Besides, it’s still not been established by any credible authority that “eating Halal” violates by biblical command. This particular pastor has his view. He is mistaken, IMO.
Also, I stated that you were being an anti-Christian bigot by your asking, “Why are Christians so dumb?” Sorry if my comment didn’t provide the appropriate context.
Well then obviously you haven’t paid attention to my background or other posts, or you would not make such a silly statement.
BTW, I stand by my comment. Christians who uncritically accept the nonsense in the OP are exhibiting a real lack of discernment.
While that may be wise politically, there is no biblical prohibition against such action.
You seem to be confusing the common political religion with a biblical one. “Do not taste, do not touch … a Muslim.”
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
I don´t know. Violating kashrus and not washing the hands before eating violate The Law which Jesus claims to have supported.
“The only sin is that caused by giving offense to others.”
No, it’s misleading others.
This is the unequivocal instruction given by Peter:
“You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”
Paul gives the same unequivical instruciton:
“But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it”
You attempt to swallow the rule by misreading Paul’s subsequent reason behind the rule.
When I am told by the apostles to “jump,” I jump. I know my place is not to question why.
Me, I care about people who might be mislead into thinking islam is a road to heaven.
IF you don’t, then perhaps you should look at yourself.
Misleading others how? The Scripture doesn’t use that sort of specific language.
Paul gives the same unequivical instruciton:
Let’s not take your word for it, but let’s examine the context:
24 Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being.There is no absolute prohibition in this passage against eating meat sacrificed to idols. See Jesus’ words in Matt. 15:11.
25 Eat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience' sake;
26 for "the earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness."
27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake.
28 But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness."
29"Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience?
30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food over which I give thanks?
31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. (1 Cor. 10)
However, it is for the conscience of the other (the unbeliever) who told us “this meat is sacrificed to idols” that we should abstain. There it is in black and white. What part did I get wrong?
Me, I care about people who might be mislead into thinking islam is a road to heaven.
Misquoting and misinterpreting the Bible does not demonstrate a care for people, no matter how noble the cause. Trying to be holier than Jesus and making others do the same won’t work either.
Besides, you folks still have shown that “eating Halal” violates by biblical command.
Jesus' answer to the charge is found in vs 3.
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
One commentary says this: "The tradition they transgress is but man's, and is itself the occasion of heavy transgression, undermining the authority of God's law."
Even the pharisees admitted it was not God's law but "tradition of the elders". But they were imposing it as equal with God's law. In fact, the Mathew Henry commentary has a quote of a Rabbi equating it with adultery.
Jesus turns it around on them, and uses it an an opportunity to point to other "traditions of men" that were undermining God's law, including the way the pharisees were avoiding honoring their parents.
This commentary does a pretty good explanation. David Guzik Commentary
Mathew Henry's commentary has a lengthy and deeper explanation. Mathew Henry Commentary - Matt 15
“Yes, I know. My point was that it’s done entirely for religious purposes.”
Yes, and my statement was and my point is that Kosher food is not blessed, or sacrificed to idols.
Want to keep doing this? ( : >)
You are intentionally confusing salvation issues with “best practice” issues, and not an honest person.
This is clear:
“You must abstain from eating food offered to idols, from consuming blood or the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality.”
Paul gives the same unequivical instruciton:
“But if someone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it”
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