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"I Will Set Egyptians Against Egyptians"
ProphecyNewstand ^ | January 28, 2011 | Bill Salus

Posted on 02/01/2011 8:00:07 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta

These are the days when the Bible is its own best commentary. Imagine Isaiah the prophet standing on the streets of Cairo today speaking in front of a mainstream news camera declaring:

The burden against Egypt. Behold, the LORD rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt; The idols of Egypt will totter at His presence, And the heart of Egypt will melt in its midst. “I will set Egyptians against Egyptians; Everyone will fight against his brother, And everyone against his neighbor, City against city, kingdom against kingdom. The spirit of Egypt will fail in its midst; I will destroy their counsel, And they will consult the idols and the charmers, The mediums and the sorcerers. And the Egyptians I will give Into the hand of a cruel master, And a fierce king will rule over them,” Says the Lord, the LORD of hosts." (Isaiah 19:1-4, nkjv)

Like a swift moving cloud, Isaiah predicts the rapid deterioration of events in Egypt. Civil unrest causes Egyptians to fight against each other. This fighting spreads from household to household and grows into a kingdom war. Probably quoting Isaiah 19:2, Christ warned kingdoms would rise against each other in Matthew 24:7. Unlike nation coming against nation, which alludes to world wars, “kingdom against kingdom” refers to regional conflicts. Christ taught these prophecies would come upon the world like birth pains. Like a woman about to deliver her newborn, these events are foretold to come with increased frequency and intensity each building upon the other.

Rumors of regional kingdom wars presently abound in the Middle East. Egypt and Saudi Arabia reportedly conducted joint military exercises in 2010 preparing for a possible confrontation with Iran. Iran represents the Persian kingdom and Egypt and Saudi Arabia the Arab kingdom. Additionally, the apocalyptically minded president Ahmadinejad of Iran has threatened on several occasions to wipe Israel, representing the Jewish kingdom, off of the map.

Psalm 83 predicts the Arab kingdom will someday rise against the Jewish kingdom to banish the name of Israel forever. Both Egypt and Saudi Arabia along with eight other Arab populations join the Arab kingdom in this pending prophetic war.

Isaiah’s prognosis for Egypt worsens as you read the rest of his chapter nineteen. Isaiah 19:5-12 tells us unprecedented religious and economic strife plagues the nation according to the purposes of the Lord. Apparently, this disastrous condition befalls Egypt because of its future involvement in Psalm 83 since we read in Isaiah 19:16-18 that Israel will take over five cities in Egypt and cause Hebrew to be the spoken language inside their city limits. One of these cities will be called “the City of Destruction,” implying the I.D.F. destroys this city.

In that day Egypt will be like women, and will be afraid and fear because of the waving of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which He waves over it. And the land of Judah will be a terror to Egypt; everyone who makes mention of it will be afraid in himself, because of the counsel of the LORD of hosts which He has determined against it. In that day five cities in the land of Egypt will speak the language of Canaan and swear by the LORD of hosts; one will be called the City of Destruction. (Isaiah 19:16-18, nkjv)

Will the civil strife developing in Egypt cause the overthrow of President Hosni Mubarak, who supposedly has cancer and turns 83 on May 4, 2011? Many expected his son Gamal Mubarak to be his replacement; however, Gamal and his family have reportedly fled to the U.K. for safety. If the Mubarak government is overthrown will the Muslim Brotherhood fill his office with one of its own fulfilling Isaiah 19:4? The Muslim Brotherhood, presently banned in Egypt, hates Israel and supports Jihad against the Jewish State. Hamas, also participating against Israel in Psalm 83, is their political arm inside of the Gaza. Hamas, like the Muslim Brotherhood, calls for the destruction of Israel.

Will the present protests inside Egypt metastasize into the fulfillment of Isaiah 19? If so will the coming cruel leader be the one who leads Egypt into the Psalm 83:6-8 confederacy? All of this is unknown but entirely possible. One thing is for certain; the Middle East appears to be on the verge of going apocalyptic.

January 2011 has seen the governments of Lebanon, Tunisia, and Egypt become severely challenged. The government of Jordan is expected to be next. Lebanon, Egypt, and Jordan are involved in Psalm 83 and Tunisia appears to take part in the Ezekiel 38 & 39 prophecy. It appears high time Christians familiarize themselves with the prophecies of Isaiah 19, Isaiah 17, Jeremiah 49, Psalm 83, and Ezekiel 38 & 39. These are a few of the world changing prophecies stage setting on the prophetic horizon.


TOPICS: Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: isaiah; prophecy

1 posted on 02/01/2011 8:00:08 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Read the rest of Isaiah 19. Looks like Iraq and Egypt will be made into God’s “blessing on the Earth” just as Israel is now. Strange things are afoot over there.


2 posted on 02/01/2011 8:04:24 AM PST by Future Snake Eater ("Get out of the boat and walk on the water with us!”--Sen. Joe Biden)
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To: Future Snake Eater

We just read Isaiah 19 this week for our bible study - purely coincidental, but WOW!!!!


3 posted on 02/01/2011 8:20:40 AM PST by Free America52 (The White guys are getting pissed off. We beat Hitler Hirohito and Krushchev. Obama will be easy.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Isiah was speaking oracles for the NEAR future of the Chosen People, NOT 2,500 years down the road.


4 posted on 02/01/2011 8:35:58 AM PST by Walrus (My congressman got booted this year --- how about yours?)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Interesting take. Some will argue this prophecy applies to the to a time much closer to the time of Isaiah’s utterances, and to a certain degree it may well. Specifically to Sennacherib around 700 BC or Nebuchadenezzar about 100 years later. No doubt if this prophecy does apply in some respect to either of those two it does definitely refer to a later period as well. Just as Daniel 11 has a near-far prophetic implication clearly referring to both Antiochus Epihanes and a later ruler who would rule the final beast empire more commonly known as the Antichrist. Daniel 11 refers to both until v 36 when the discussion clearly shifts solely to the final end-times ruler.

In the same way I believe Isaiah 19 refers more specifically to the times we live in today and from verse 16 on very clearly refers to the coming Day of the Lord and the establishment of His Eternal Kingdom.

Very good article and very germane to what is currently happening in Egypt and all that will follow. Thank you for posting.


5 posted on 02/01/2011 9:18:15 AM PST by bereanway (I'd rather have 40 Marco Rubios than 60 Arlen Specters)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; RJR_fan; The Theophilus; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; Lee N. Field; ...
These are the days when the Bible is its own best commentary.

Translation: The Prophecy Pimps are at it again.

Just more ...


6 posted on 02/01/2011 10:20:29 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54

Winners and lovers shape the future

Whiners and losers

Try to predict it.

God's swift displeasure against the fortune-tellers who seduce His people into toxic idle speculation will, I anticipate, soon be made known.
7 posted on 02/01/2011 10:35:08 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; RJR_fan; The Theophilus; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; Lee N. Field; ...
Like a swift moving cloud, Isaiah predicts the rapid deterioration of events in Egypt.

Actually, that’s not what the passage says.

Behold, the Lord rides on a swift cloud, And will come into Egypt;
This is cloud judgment language. A day of judgment. “A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, …” (Joel 2:2) It’s the language of divine judgment against the ancient people of Egypt. Just read the context:
Surely the princes of Zoan are fools; Pharaoh's wise counselors give foolish counsel. How do you say to Pharaoh, "I am the son of the wise, The son of ancient kings?"
Where are they? Where are your wise men? Let them tell you now, And let them know what the Lord of hosts has purposed against Egypt.
The princes of Zoan have become fools; The princes of Noph are deceived; They have also deluded Egypt, Those who are the mainstay of its tribes. (v. 11-13)
Anyone seen any Pharaohs running around in the desert lately? And the princes of Zoan and Noph must be hiding out pretty well. They are nowhere to be seen.

And elsewhere in Isaiah we read this:

"Woe to the rebellious children," says the Lord, "Who take counsel, but not of Me, And who devise plans, but not of My Spirit, That they may add sin to sin;
Who walk to go down to Egypt, And have not asked My advice, To strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, And to trust in the shadow of Egypt!
Therefore the strength of Pharaoh Shall be your shame, And trust in the shadow of Egypt Shall be your humiliation.
For his princes were at Zoan, And his ambassadors came to Hanes. (Isa. 30:1-4)
Again, this is language describing ancient judgment again Israel that rebelled against the Lord by playing the harlot with Egypt.

From the get-go this Prophecy Pimp twists the word of Scripture to fit with current events. This is newspaper exegesis at its best (or worst). Ignore the text and context of the Bible, and read into the passage whatever you wish.

Of the Prophecy Pimps and their followers we ask this simple question: “Where are your wise men?” How long will you all keep deceiving yourselves?

8 posted on 02/01/2011 10:38:50 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54

In every generatation, there are those who choose to live in the End Times.


9 posted on 02/01/2011 10:39:14 AM PST by tacticalogic
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To: bereanway
I agree with your take on this. Here is a good commentary on what is happening:

Many of you may not realize what is happening in Egypt could be playing a major role in what is to happen in the near future concerning the war we see in Psalm 83. As you will see from the reports below many of the nations who are listed to come against Israel are in the process of changing. If you didn’t know, Egypt is named as one of the nations who will be attacking Israel, and this nation is not only fulfilling Matthew 24:7 where Christ warned we would see civil unrest, (kingdom against kingdom), but a change in the government could cause a swing forming an unfriendly government toward Israel, and Israel is concerned about it. “JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's prime minister said Sunday that his government is "anxiously monitoring" the political unrest in Egypt, his first comment on the crisis threatening a regime that has been one of Israel's key allies for more than 30 years.”

One of the worse things that could happen is if the present government where to swing towards what is known as the “Muslim Brotherhood”. However, so far that is the direction this swing appears to be heading. In addressing the Muslim Brotherhood a CNN report today stated the following: “Few images have been more powerful than those of demonstrators dropping to the ground to pray in the face of security forces. And while some have been inspired by the role of religious faith in the protests, there are definite worries that the banned Muslim Brotherhood is waiting in the wings, hoping for a chance to take over. "You don't just have a government and a movement for democracy," former British Prime Minister Tony Blair cautioned on Monday. "You also have others, notably the Muslim Brotherhood, who would take this in a different direction. We need to be anxious to meet the aspirations of the people, but do it in a way that produces something better." Former Israeli diplomat Eli Avidar argues that elections put the militant Islamist Hamas movement in power in Gaza. "President (George W.) Bush and (Secretary of State) Condi Rice pressured the State of Israel to allow democratic elections in the Palestinian Authority and what happened was that Hamas took over and these were the first and last democratic elections," he said. The Muslim Brotherhood could do the same thing in Egypt, he fears.”

My Way News also gives us information which addresses Israel’s concerns about Egypt. “Israel's primary concern is that the uprising could be commandeered by Egypt's strongest opposition group, the Muslim Brotherhood, and its allies, who would presumably move Egypt away from its alignment with the West and possibly cancel the peace agreement with Israel.

"Israel has an interest in Egypt being democratic, but through a process that promises sustainability," said Dan Shueftan, director of the National Security Studies Center at Haifa University. "If you have a process that starts with a desire for democracy but then sees radicals take over, then the result at the end of the process is worse than what you had at the beginning."

The benefits to Israel of peace with Egypt have been significant.

In the three decades before the peace agreement, Israel and Egypt fought four major wars. Israel now spends 9 percent of its gross domestic product on defense, Shueftan said - compared with 23 percent in the 1970s, when a state of war with Egypt still existed.

Where Israel once deployed thousands of soldiers along the Egyptian frontier, today there are several hundred. This reduction allowed the Israeli economy to begin flowering in the years after the peace deal, he said.

Mubarak has also served as a mediator between Israel and the Palestinians.

If Egypt resumes its conflict with Israel, Israelis fear, it will put a powerful Western-armed military on the side of Israel's enemies while also weakening pro-Western states like Jordan and Saudi Arabia.”

Egypt's President What we know for sure is Israel will be attacked in the near future. It is my opinion that what we are seeing take place in the Middle East is setting up for this future attack. It didn’t surprise me at all to read that Israel is not only concerned about what is going to happen in Egypt, but they are concerned about a backlash from this change that many cause more problems from them in Jordan and Saudi Arabia. If the Lord tells us that Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia are going to attack Israel, shouldn’t we look for something to shake up the Middle East that will help drive these nations to attack Israel?

Here is a short section from the Jerusalem Post. “Israeli security experts are casting an uneasy eye at the civil unrest spreading through the region. On Thursday, Yemen joined the list of Arab states experiencing unprecedented demonstrations calling for authoritarian leaders to step down, and Egypt braced for more civil unrest. While no analysts here predict any immediate ramifications for Israel’s national security, some said mass protest movements that begin as pro-democracy uprisings could easily be hijacked by Islamists. “We need to understand that we are living on a volcano,” said Maj.- Gen. (res.) Ya’acov Amidror, former head of the IDF’s Research and Assessment Directorate”

Egypt’s President is pointing to who he believes is behind the riots. “Speaking on Egyptian state television Sunday, President Hosni Mubarak blamed Islamists for the violence that has engulfed the countrywide demonstrations, alluding to the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's largest "opposition group." Under Egyptian law, members of the Brotherhood may not be elected to parliament, but some have gained power by running as independents for the 508-member legislative body.”

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110130/D9L2Q1Q00.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/01/31
/egypt.muslim.brotherhood/ http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=205580
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/January/Mubarak-Blames-Islamists-for-Chaos/

I can see the Lord’s handwriting on the wall via this statement made by one of the leaders in the Muslim Brotherhood movement. I quote: “Mohamed Ghanem, one of the leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, calls Egypt to stop pumping gas to Israel and prepare the Egyptian army for a war with it’s eastern neighbor. Speaking with Iranian television station Al-Alam, Mohamed Ghanem blamed Israel for supporting Hosni Mubarak’s regime. Ghanem also said that the Egyptian police and army won’t be able to stop the Muslim Brotherhood movement. There are doubts about the loyalty of the Egyptian army to president Mubarak. If the brotherhood takes control over Egypt, it will be very messy from the whole region.”

http://www.forexcrunch.com/muslim-brotherhood-wants-war-with-israel/

Trust in the Lord’s Words when He warns, we will see kingdom rise against Kingdom. This is what we are witnessing! All I can say is please trust the Lord’s warning that Israel will find herself in another war with her neighbors soon. Watch and keep on the guard with Christ as we watch what transforms from the civil unrest in Egypt.

Bibleprophecyman

Lebanon, Egypt, and now Jordan is probably next to fall. These are three of the nations listed by God who will go to war with Israel in the Psalm 83 prophecy. For the first time in history, everything is quickly falling into place for the Psalm 83 war to take place.

10 posted on 02/01/2011 10:54:24 AM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: GiovannaNicoletta; bereanway; RJR_fan; The Theophilus
One of the worse things that could happen is if the present government where to swing towards what is known as the “Muslim Brotherhood”.

Why? Wouldn’t this be just more proof that Jesus is gonna return Real Soon Now®? You want Jesus to rapture the Church, don’t you? Soon? Maranatha?

Bad theology makes bad politics, and vice versa.

11 posted on 02/01/2011 11:30:06 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54; RJR_fan
This is cloud judgment language. A day of judgment. “A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, …” (Joel 2:2) ...Just read the context:

...

Anyone seen any Pharaohs running around in the desert lately? And the princes of Zoan and Noph must be hiding out pretty well. They are nowhere to be seen.

I don't think she heard.

The LORD reigns, let the earth rejoice; let the many coastlands be glad!
Clouds and thick darkness are all around him; righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.
Fire goes before him and burns up his adversaries all around.
His lightnings light up the world; the earth sees and trembles.
The mountains melt like wax before the LORD, before the Lord of all the earth. --Psalm 97

Nukes, for sure. Pinging Bill Salus...

You know, I wonder how many of the prophecy pundits, and their fans, have any background reading science fiction. The good classic stuff, not star wars|trek crap. There doesn't seem to be any taste or ability to read anything outside of a flat 20th century mindset.

12 posted on 02/01/2011 11:35:05 AM PST by Lee N. Field (Dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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To: bereanway; GiovannaNicoletta
In the same way I believe Isaiah 19 refers more specifically to the times we live in today and from verse 16 on very clearly refers to the coming Day of the Lord and the establishment of His Eternal Kingdom.

You mean His millennial kingdom, right? His eternal kingdom comes after the millennial kingdom, and is still a ways off. Right?

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)

13 posted on 02/01/2011 11:44:44 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54

Yes, specifically the Eternal Kingdom begins with the establishment of Christ’s eternal reign initated by the advent of the Millenium. At that point His reign over the earth is eternal even though challenged very shortly at the end of His Millenial Reign. As noted in Daniel below, at the conclusion of the 70th week when Christ crushes the final beast empire his “kingdom which will never be destroyed” begins. So yes, the Millenial Reign is not eternal as it’s specifcally defined as 1,000 years in length, however it is contained within His eternal reign as from that point forward His Reign or Kingdom will never end.

In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45“Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”


14 posted on 02/01/2011 12:08:34 PM PST by bereanway (I'd rather have 40 Marco Rubios than 60 Arlen Specters)
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To: bereanway; GiovannaNicoletta
But Peter tells us that the day of the Lord initiates the real eternal kingdom, the new heavens and new earth.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)
What is the day of the Lord, and how do you squeeze a millennial kingdom into Peter’s timeline?

Then we have to examine what Paul says about Christ’s kingdom.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. (1 Cor. 15)
Paul tells us the “the end” coincides with Christ’s coming and the resurrection of the saints. At His coming He delivers up the kingdom to the Father, vanquishing death. In 1 Thessalonians 5, Paul tells his readers that Christ comes “as a thief in the night,” and warns them to be prepared, “Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.” This would fit with Peter’s picture of the “day of the Lord” coming as a “thief in the night” initiating the new heavens and new earth.
15 posted on 02/01/2011 12:27:20 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: bereanway
This is what you're dealing with:

Postmillennialism is an interpretation of Revelation chapter 20 which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after the “millennium,” a golden age or era of Christian prosperity and dominance. The term includes several similar views of the end times, and it stands in contrast to premillennialism (the view that Christ’s second coming will occur prior to His millennial kingdom and that the millennial kingdom is a literal 1000-year reign) and, to a lesser extent, amillennialism (no literal millennium).

Postmillennialism is the belief that Christ returns after a period of time, but not necessarily a literal 1000 years. Those who hold this view do not interpret unfulfilled prophecy using a normal, literal method. They believe that Revelation 20:4-6 should not be taken literally. They believe that “1000 years” simply means “a long period of time.” Furthermore, the prefix “post-” in “postmillennialism” denotes the view that Christ will return after Christians (not Christ Himself) have established the kingdom on this earth.

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming “Christianized.” After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7, Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”

Those who hold to postmillennialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when someone starts assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything he wants it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words, so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.

A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture, including unfulfilled prophecy. We have hundreds of examples in Scripture of prophecies being fulfilled. Take, for example, the prophecies concerning Christ in the Old Testament. Those prophecies were fulfilled literally. Consider the virgin birth of Christ (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Consider His death for our sins (Isaiah 53:4-9; 1 Peter 2:24). These prophecies were fulfilled literally, and that is reason enough to assume that God will continue in the future to literally fulfill His Word. Postmillennialism fails in that it interprets Bible prophecy subjectively and holds that the millennial kingdom will be established by the church, not by Christ Himself.

"What is Postmillennialism?"

When you get this, along with the belief that all prophetic Scripture was fulfilled in 70AD, you going to get rage on threads which prove that God's word, taken as He wrote it, not tampered with and not allegorized, is true and inerrant and is in the process of coming to pass.

This is par for the course.

16 posted on 02/01/2011 12:35:49 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: Lee N. Field; DManA; CynicalBear; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; ...
I wonder how many of the prophecy pundits, and their fans, have any background reading science fiction. The good classic stuff, not star wars|trek crap. There doesn't seem to be any taste or ability to read anything outside of a flat 20th century mindset.

In a 1997 essay Futures for Sale, my friend Thomas C. Smedley boldly suggested that "Science Fiction should be used to represent a future filled with hope, rather than despair." I liked his conclusion:


17 posted on 02/01/2011 12:43:33 PM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: topcat54
Paul tells us the “the end” coincides with Christ’s coming and the resurrection of the saints

"And I will raise him up, on the last day.

"Last means last.", to parody the rhetoric of a certain eschatological school.

At His coming He delivers up the kingdom to the Father

Which means, Christ already has it. Unless it's a just a quick in-and-out handoff.

18 posted on 02/01/2011 12:49:31 PM PST by Lee N. Field (Dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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To: topcat54

I’m not certain I disagree with anything you have stated. Understand that I don’t believe there are two seperate comings as I don’t hold to pretribulational rapturism. I believe the Church enters the 70th week and endures the Great Tribulation which is cut short as it were “for the sake of the elect” as were it not, no flesh (or believers in context) would have been saved. The 70th Week isn’t shortened as it’s predefined at 2,520 days, but rather the Great Tribulation which is contained within the 70th week and is not defined in length. Only knowing that it begins at the midpoint of the 70th and is contained within the final 3.5 years or 1,260 days.

I don’t believe in an any moment signless rapture. I believe the rapture occurs and the Day of the Lord begins immediately on the same day which marks thd end of the Great Tribulation and commences the DAy of the Lord which I also believe will correspond to the Feast of Trumpets and will be the first of the fall feasts to be fulfilled in accordance with His Second Coming. Just as the 4 spring Feasts beginning with Passover were fulfilled in His First Coming.

All of this (specifically the Rapture which follows the Great Tribulation) is well into the second half of the 70th Week where most Evangelicals today believe the Church never enters the 70th Week.


19 posted on 02/01/2011 12:52:41 PM PST by bereanway (I'd rather have 40 Marco Rubios than 60 Arlen Specters)
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To: GiovannaNicoletta

Ok, I wasn’t certain exactly what the issue was. Clearly I’m not a Postmillenialist as I strongly believe Christ’s return and the Rapture occur in advance of the Millenium as I don’t believe this present age corresponds to the Millenial Reign.

My only difference with many is on the specific timing of the Rapture.


20 posted on 02/01/2011 1:03:52 PM PST by bereanway (I'd rather have 40 Marco Rubios than 60 Arlen Specters)
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To: bereanway
My only difference with many is on the specific timing of the Rapture.

LOL- that is definitely a bone of contention among Bible-believing Christians!

21 posted on 02/01/2011 1:12:48 PM PST by GiovannaNicoletta
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To: RJR_fan
In a 1997 essay Futures for Sale, my friend Thomas C. Smedley boldly suggested that "Science Fiction should be used to represent a future filled with hope, rather than despair." I liked his conclusion:

Interesting, interesting. That sounds very like SF writer's L. Neil Smith's opinion in On a Clear Day You Can See Bulgaria -- But Who Wants to Look?.

Tom Smedley used to post in Freerepublic. Haven't seen him in quite a while. Last post is in '07.

22 posted on 02/01/2011 3:20:45 PM PST by Lee N. Field (Dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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To: bereanway
I believe the Church enters the 70th week and endures the Great Tribulation which is cut short as it were “for the sake of the elect” as were it not, no flesh (or believers in context) would have been saved.

What 70th week are you referring to? The only 70 week period in the Bible, in Daniel 9, was finished two millennia ago. There is no future weeks from this period.

I don’t believe in an any moment signless rapture. I believe the rapture occurs and the Day of the Lord begins immediately on the same day which marks thd end of the Great Tribulation and commences the DAy of the Lord which I also believe will correspond to the Feast of Trumpets and will be the first of the fall feasts to be fulfilled in accordance with His Second Coming. Just as the 4 spring Feasts beginning with Passover were fulfilled in His First Coming.

Interesting theory, but it doesn't seem to jibe with any of the passages I quoted to you.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. (2 Peter 3:10)
What is the day of the Lord, and how do you squeeze a millennial kingdom into Peter’s timeline?

The day of the Lord doesn't begin anything, except for the passing away of the old “earth and the works in it.” You seem to think it begins something, but it doesn't, at least not according to the Bible.

Then we have to examine what Paul says about Christ’s kingdom.
21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. (1 Cor. 15)
Paul tells us the “the end” coincides with Christ’s coming and the resurrection of the saints. At His coming He delivers up the kingdom to the Father, vanquishing death. In 1 Thessalonians 5, Paul tells his readers that Christ comes “as a thief in the night,” and warns them to be prepared, “Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.” This would fit with Peter’s picture of the “day of the Lord” coming as a “thief in the night” initiating the new heavens and new earth.

23 posted on 02/01/2011 4:13:31 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: bereanway; GiovannaNicoletta
Ok, I wasn’t certain exactly what the issue was. Clearly I’m not a Postmillenialist as I strongly believe Christ’s return and the Rapture occur in advance of the Millenium as I don’t believe this present age corresponds to the Millenial Reign.

But this theory doesn't fit with passages like 2 Peter 3:10 and 1 Cor. 15. There's no room for a “thousand years” between the day of the Lord and new heavens and new earth. They are coincidental events.

24 posted on 02/01/2011 4:19:58 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: Lee N. Field
Tom Smedley used to post in Freerepublic. Haven't seen him in quite a while. Last post is in '07.

I have it on good authority that this gent still posts, albeit under a pseudonym. His wife pointed out that potential employers might not appreciate hard-edge, brilliant, and politically incorrect punditry.

25 posted on 02/01/2011 5:20:25 PM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: RJR_fan
I have it on good authority that this gent still posts, albeit under a pseudonym.

Cool.

His wife pointed out that potential employers might not appreciate hard-edge, brilliant, and politically incorrect punditry.

There is that, there is that.

There's enough out there under my real name that I'll never work at a place big enough to have a real HR department. Why make it easy for them?

"Lee N. Field" is a pseudonym that I started using nearly a decade ago on Internet gunfora. It's instantly recognizable as such to a gunny, but looks like a real name to others.

26 posted on 02/01/2011 6:43:13 PM PST by Lee N. Field (Dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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To: topcat54
Bad theology makes bad politics, and vice versa.

You would think that the Futurists could clean up on Intrade but for some odd reason the money doesn't follow the mouth.

27 posted on 02/02/2011 3:38:07 PM PST by The Theophilus
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To: topcat54

This is no surprise, because I have heard often that the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has been called a pharoah because of the situation going on in Egypt.


28 posted on 02/03/2011 7:05:07 AM PST by Biggirl ("The Best Of Times, The Worse Of Times", Charles Dickens)
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To: Biggirl; Lee N. Field; RJR_fan
This is no surprise, because I have heard often that the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has been called a pharoah because of the situation going on in Egypt.

But that doesn’t make him a pharaoh biblically speaking, does it? If someone calls me Nebuchadnezzar are there Bible prophecies that apply to me?

29 posted on 02/03/2011 7:57:46 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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