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End Time: How Christians Lose
youtube ^ | Feb. 3, 2011 | "Molotov" Mitchell

Posted on 02/03/2011 11:38:35 PM PST by RJR_fan

Molotov Mitchell hits another one out of the ballpark!

Click HERE.


TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: defeat; dispensationalism; gnosticism; victory
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If you like, pass it on!
1 posted on 02/03/2011 11:38:40 PM PST by RJR_fan
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To: DManA; CynicalBear; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; Dr. Eckleburg

Enjoy!


2 posted on 02/03/2011 11:40:30 PM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: RJR_fan

Kind of a provocative name for this guy’s production company - “Illuminati Pictures”.

Just, for the record.


3 posted on 02/03/2011 11:47:28 PM PST by cinciella
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To: RJR_fan

Amen.


4 posted on 02/03/2011 11:50:56 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (Huguenot)
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To: RJR_fan

How nice of him to take Scripture out of context and develop a premise that isn’t supportable by the Bible. Christians aren’t fearful...we are hopeful for the day of our Lord’s return. Jesus himself described the end of the age as one of great tribulation.

Matthew 24:5 “For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many.”

Matthew 24:11”And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.”

Matthew 24:6 “And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.”

Matthew 24:7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.”

Matthew 24:7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.”

Matthew 24:7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes.”

Matthew 24:8-9”But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name.”

Matthew 24:14 “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come.”


5 posted on 02/03/2011 11:52:30 PM PST by The Unknown Republican
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To: The Unknown Republican
The ejection seat idea doesn't cut it no matter how you take scripture out of context to support it.

Sorry, but the grunts have to stay in the fight even when it goes from bad to worse. Christ called us to a cross, not to a front row seat in heaven where we watch it hit the fan.

6 posted on 02/03/2011 11:55:50 PM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: Rashputin
I'm not debating the merits of the Rapture or Dispensational theology. I take issue with the premise that we can create a “Heaven on Earth” without the direct intervention of Jesus. This guy makes it sound like man can do it alone...sorry buddy, but it ain't gonna happen that way.
I actually haven't fully made up my eschatological mind yet, but plenty of people much smarter than this guy would disagree with you both.
7 posted on 02/04/2011 12:07:24 AM PST by The Unknown Republican
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To: Rashputin

And how did I exactly take the Scripture out of context? That’s right...I didn’t.


8 posted on 02/04/2011 12:08:12 AM PST by The Unknown Republican
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To: Rashputin
"The ejection seat idea doesn't cut it no matter how you take scripture out of context to support it. Sorry, but the grunts have to stay in the fight even when it goes from bad to worse. Christ called us to a cross, not to a front row seat in heaven where we watch it hit the fan."

Nicely put! I had always wondered why they believe what they believe, seeing as how God spared NO ONE in the new testament, not even his own SON from torture, humiliation and embarrassment. Most of the early followers in the first century met very violent deaths.

9 posted on 02/04/2011 12:09:11 AM PST by Soothesayer9
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To: The Unknown Republican
We can't do it, with that I do agree. I think we're supposed to work mightily at it, though, if you define ‘heaven on earth’ as having everyone come to Christ. I should have pointed out that I didn't agree with all he said.
10 posted on 02/04/2011 12:10:39 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: The Unknown Republican
That’s right...I didn’t.

You're right. You didn't say those verses supported the Rapture being Biblical.

11 posted on 02/04/2011 12:16:42 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: Soothesayer9

They believe this because there is honest disagreement among Biblical Scholars and each position has its own relative merits. I personally don’t ridicule any of the positions since I am not absolutely certain how it will play out. What I am certain of is that it is playing out.

I have major problems when people ridicule other Christians for honest disagreements over eschatology. You may not understand it, but please respect that people can and do differ in their reading of Revelation and the prophecy of the end times.


12 posted on 02/04/2011 12:19:21 AM PST by The Unknown Republican
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To: Soothesayer9; Rashputin

AMEN!

What is the point of girding on all that Gospel Armor, hauling around a Shield, and belting on the Sword, if we’re just going to bug out so we can sit down in front of a heavenly omnivision set to watch the fight, instead of STANDING AGAINST the fiery darts of Satan?


13 posted on 02/04/2011 12:21:21 AM PST by ApplegateRanch (Made in America, by proud American citizens, in 1946.)
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To: ApplegateRanch

Ummm...the purpose of all of that is to glorify and worship our Lord and our God.


14 posted on 02/04/2011 12:25:36 AM PST by The Unknown Republican
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: cinciella
Kind of a provocative name for this guy’s production company - “Illuminati Pictures”.

It certainly got your attention! I know the guy -- he's a hard-edge Reformed Christian, a self-taught multimedia genius, and a bold proclaimer of the Crown Rights of King Jesus. Definitely a "salty" Christian, strongly flavored, provocative. A refreshing contrast in a generation of girly men, effete snobs, and a feminized "faith" that prefers bland, "sugar and spice and everything nice" to reality.

16 posted on 02/04/2011 12:40:00 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: RJR_fan

“Or to masturbate over imaginary maps of the future?”

This is a disgusting use of language, and not fit for a religious forum.

Those of us on the “other side” of the theological aisle, those of us who are ridiculed by your side, are awed by the glory of God, that is revealed even as His prophecies are unfolding - even this very week. We are not cowering to the enemy or giving him ground. We trust in God’s plan, and that He is the Victor. He has His plan, not man’s plan. His ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. We are not “just holding on” until we are rescued out of this sinking ship. We are reaching out to our family, our friends, our neighborhoods, our world with the Gospel. Yes, there is an urgency - the time is short. But we trust Him. We all have our parts to play - and we should be seeking those things which align to the Word and the will of God. And yes, that would include any sphere of influence where we can bring in God’s reconciliation and His restoration, and glorify Him. Making videos mocking other believers will not change hearts, nor will it bring anyone to Christ, and it certainly will not bring glory to God.


17 posted on 02/04/2011 12:49:48 AM PST by cinciella
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To: RJR_fan

Why do you think he chose the name “Illumanati”? That really has some negative connotations. But I guess if you don’t believe that there is a “New World Order”, you can certainly feel free to use it. Kind of like, “666” is probably OK as well, huh!


18 posted on 02/04/2011 12:54:33 AM PST by cinciella
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To: RJR_fan

You have a disgusting way of making your “Christian?” points RJR....still loving the shock affect I see. Is your mind always in the gutter?


19 posted on 02/04/2011 12:55:37 AM PST by caww
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To: Rashputin
Christ called us to a cross, not to a front row seat in heaven where we watch it hit the fan.

Wrong... in how you have framed this.

20 posted on 02/04/2011 12:58:23 AM PST by caww
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To: RJR_fan

You paint with too broad a brush and your grossly generalized conclusions border on the offensive. The believers I know who happen to hold to a dispensational world view are not in any manner, shape or form as you have described them. I am deeply concerned as a Christian brother that you would in any way intimate that fellow believers do not believe Jesus is Lord here and now simply because they disagree with you personally on an issue of eschatology. This is certainly not an issue that separates the saved from the condemned, yet you treat it like somehow believers who hold a position that is contrary to yours are lesser committed to the cause of the Kingdom. Some of the most dedicated mission-minded people I know are dispensational. My brother-in-law and his family live in a third world country as missionaries to make a difference for the Kingdom...they happen to hold a dispensational world view and are working their tails off to reach the lost daily. I know dozens of people who weekly dedicate hours of their lives to helping the poor and needy….they also hold dispensational views. You say these people denigrate the Lord’s Prayer? Really?


21 posted on 02/04/2011 1:03:21 AM PST by The Unknown Republican
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To: The Unknown Republican
You paint with too broad a brush and your grossly generalized conclusions border on the offensive.

Some people are worth communicating with...others you will quickly learn not to throw pearls before swine....Nasty minded.

22 posted on 02/04/2011 1:10:38 AM PST by caww
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To: RJR_fan
“Or to masturbate over imaginary maps of the future?”

You SEVERLY hurt your position by using such “progressive” language to try to make your point. Congratulation, Alinsky would be proud...

23 posted on 02/04/2011 1:13:06 AM PST by piytar (Obastard is a use of the term "bastard" in the literal sense -- Obama is hiding his daddy's identity)
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To: piytar

That is rough language. He must have been hanging around fishermen or some other rough crowd and doesn’t understand the need to switch gears when he posts.


24 posted on 02/04/2011 1:21:19 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: cinciella

Filled with mockery , condemnation and error. UGG


25 posted on 02/04/2011 1:22:57 AM PST by JaneNC (I)
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To: JaneNC

If you have a doctrinal view that is most often sold by dwelling on the sizzle rather than the implications of that doctrine, what do you expect? Of course an awful lot of those listening will draw incorrect conclusions as to what impact that doctrine has on the Faith. More often than not, those that get past the sizzle are more serious about their faith than those who are shopping around for whatever impacts the rest of their lives the least.


26 posted on 02/04/2011 1:33:28 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: Rashputin
That is rough language. He must have been hanging around fishermen or some other rough crowd

Yeah...who would want to hang out around rough fishermen?

Rough carpenters maybe?

27 posted on 02/04/2011 1:44:38 AM PST by KDD (When the government boot is on your neck, it matters not whether it is the right boot or the left.)
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To: KDD

I’m pretty sure the “carpenter” that you are referring to would not be using language like that...especially about some of His followers. Nor would he approve of it.


28 posted on 02/04/2011 1:48:34 AM PST by cinciella
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To: cinciella

James Madison

“We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth that religion, or the duty which we owe our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The religion, then, of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man: and that it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate.”

“The civil government ... functions with complete success ... by the total separation of the Church from the State.


29 posted on 02/04/2011 1:55:31 AM PST by KDD (When the government boot is on your neck, it matters not whether it is the right boot or the left.)
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To: KDD

Just in case of confusion...I’m not the OP. I’m arguing against this KINGDOM NOW/DOMINIONISM theology. I’m not looking for a “theocracy”. That is the OP’s view.

Or are you making a point that I’m not getting?


30 posted on 02/04/2011 2:11:48 AM PST by cinciella
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To: cinciella

I stand corrected.

Apologies.


31 posted on 02/04/2011 2:28:56 AM PST by KDD (When the government boot is on your neck, it matters not whether it is the right boot or the left.)
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To: cinciella
1st Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

This provides support for the “rapture”. The idea being that Satan can not have his way and complete the end times if Christians are present as the “salt “ of the earth and preserving the earth from Satan's final corruption of the earth. It isn't a matter of a front row seat in heaven, it is a matter of our not being present. That being said Christians all over the world today are being martyred at probably a greater rate than any time in history. I fully expect persecution of Christians in America, Look at the slandering of Palin and even to some extent Obama if he is a Christian as he professes.

32 posted on 02/04/2011 2:37:43 AM PST by carcraft (Pray for our Country)
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To: RJR_fan

Has he read Revelation?

He’s way way off base. It isn’t that Christ CAN’T defeat Satan ... He WON’T defeat Satan ruling the earth in the last days.

And yes, it certainly IS ALL ABOUT HEAVEN !

Duh.

Piece of garbage.


33 posted on 02/04/2011 2:47:06 AM PST by Reagan69 (I went to a shooting-victims' memorial service and all I got was a lousy T-shirt !)
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To: The Unknown Republican

“I take issue with the premise that we can create a “Heaven on Earth” without the direct intervention of Jesus.”

Wow, go back and watch the video again. He never asserts that we can create Heaven on earth “without Jesus”. First off, the Holy Spirit is in believers so in a sense God is here on earth. The speakers only assertion is that we are commanded to go out and be salt and light and change the world around us.
Because we are commanded to.

Too many Christians sit around and wait for the rapture and don’t get involved in politics or charity because “Jesus is coming back soon anyway”.


34 posted on 02/04/2011 2:55:05 AM PST by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: ApplegateRanch

“What is the point of girding on all that Gospel Armor, hauling around a Shield, and belting on the Sword, if we’re just going to bug out so we can sit down in front of a heavenly omnivision set to watch the fight, instead of STANDING AGAINST the fiery darts of Satan?”

Bears repeating!


35 posted on 02/04/2011 3:00:24 AM PST by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: carcraft

“1st Thessalonians 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.”

Where in that verse is the support? What part of that verse gives any indication of the TIME that this event will take place? Or any of the verses before or after? Chapter 5 gives a timeline but most pre-tribers ignore that one.

The point I’ve always stated is if you see an event in Scripture without a timeline you can’t MAKE ASSUMPTIONS as to when it will happen unless you can find this event described somewhere else in scripture. When we look in scripture we do find it again and almost exactly the same description, Matthew 24 (and in Luke and Mark) with Jesus giving the description and here we DO have a timeline.


36 posted on 02/04/2011 3:30:09 AM PST by thatjoeguy (Wind is just air, but pushier.)
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To: RJR_fan
Or to masturbate over imaginary maps of the future?

Whose spirit is speaking through you? That's not the Holy Spirit, is it?

You should ask the mods to remove your comment.

37 posted on 02/04/2011 3:35:52 AM PST by SonOfDarkSkies (Has anyone spotted any "together we thrive" tee-shirts yet in the news feeds from Cairo?)
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To: carcraft

I’m not the OP. I’m not exactly sure when the Rapture will take place, but I believe it will happen. The OP’s view and video are those that mock the Rapture & those who believe in it. And yes, Christians will be increasingly persecuted. Obama will be Satan’s tool in this though, he will not suffer persecution as a “Christian” IMHO.


38 posted on 02/04/2011 4:02:24 AM PST by cinciella
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To: JaneNC

“Filled with mockery , condemnation and error. UGG”

Not to mention a real waste of resources. Hopefully this young man will someday seek God to find His vision for his life, and not continue down this path. Tearing down (especially by mockery!) the Body of Christ can never bring glory to God.


39 posted on 02/04/2011 4:09:40 AM PST by cinciella
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To: KDD

No worries. I guess that’s the risk of being the first responder to a post.


40 posted on 02/04/2011 4:11:02 AM PST by cinciella
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To: thatjoeguy
"When we look in scripture we do find it again and almost exactly the same description, Matthew 24 (and in Luke and Mark) with Jesus giving the description and here we DO have a timeline."

Actually, I prefer Luke's version of the Olivet discourse to Matthew. While Matthew is more detailed the prophecies of the fall of Jerusalem are so entertwined with the end time prophecies that it's virtually impossible to sort them out. This is illustrated by the Preterists who claim Matthew 24 deals exclusively with the fall of Jerusalem. Luke is more straight forward in its timeline and easier to follow in that it separates the two events much more clearly.

41 posted on 02/04/2011 4:16:28 AM PST by circlecity
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To: vanilla swirl

“Too many Christians sit around and wait for the rapture and don’t get involved in politics or charity because “Jesus is coming back soon anyway”.”

Do you really know Christians like this? All the ones that I know, and that do believe we are in the “end times” are very involved in politics & charity. One of my former pastors has been very involved in Haiti, and prays & advises local governmental leaders whenever he gets the opportunity - and they seek him out. I truly have never known Christians that are just hiding out, waiting for the rapture. I believe that’s just an argument that the preterists/Kingdom Now/dominionists use.


42 posted on 02/04/2011 4:18:55 AM PST by cinciella
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To: SonOfDarkSkies; DManA; CynicalBear; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; ...
Whose spirit is speaking through you? That's not the Holy Spirit, is it?

Actually, I suspect it's the same Spirit Who motivated Paul to recommend that the Judaizers should take another slice with their pernicious knives. Who motivated Ezekiel to caricature those who were about shaft Israel as having the genitalia and emissions of farm animals.

What is the point of "prophecy teaching?"

Since so much of it is dedicated to events alleged to occur after we're no longer around? Since so much of it is alleged to have no relevance to those to whom it was originally addressed? "Prophecy experts" would have us believe that Jesus was not talking to the folks listening to Him when He spoke of/to "this generation." John was not writing to the seven churches in Asia. Both were padding out the pages of Holy Writ with material that was addressed, not to those to whom it was addressed, but to we who live in the "terminal generation." Somehow, the numbers always get adjusted to ensure that said generation doesn't include them, but us!

To answer my own question ...

A scheme of interpretation that undermines the faith of God's people, that asserts that God can not be expected to work in, through, and for us in miraculous ways today, that mentally consigns all of creation to the devil -- at least, for 3.5 or 7 years, is sub-optimal. And will, I trust, be looked back about with amused horror a century from now. "What were those people thinking? How could they fall for this dung?" (another word the Holy Spirit prompted Paul to use, BTW.)
[1] In an effort to internationalize my audience, I'm using a soccer term today, rather than the baseball idiom, "uncontested turns at bat" -- and three innings later, the other ethnic group won.
43 posted on 02/04/2011 4:21:46 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: RJR_fan
Actually, I suspect it's the same Spirit Who motivated Paul

You're still bragging. Your lack of humility makes it a stretch to believe you are today being motivated by the Holy Spirit. That doesn't sound like the Holy Spirit. Too much big talk and bluster...no humility.

We all make mistakes (me most of all)...but you might get off your high horse long enough to look in the mirror.

Your original comment was embarrassing.

44 posted on 02/04/2011 4:29:28 AM PST by SonOfDarkSkies (Has anyone spotted any "together we thrive" tee-shirts yet in the news feeds from Cairo?)
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To: cinciella

yes. I frequently try to talk with “Christians” about things going on in the world that we should be concerned about. They frequently give me a blank stare and say “Jesus is coming back to rapture us anyway so why should I care”. I also see a lot of missionary work being done as just “something to do”.


45 posted on 02/04/2011 4:37:36 AM PST by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: cinciella
Hopefully this young man will someday seek God to find His vision for his life, and not continue down this path.

Thank you for your considerate prayers. May the Spirit that invokes such blessings upon my life do the same for you and your house! And may God show you tokens of His favor even today!

It's flattering to hear a guy pushing 60 referred to as a "young" man. A testimony to the youthful exuberance you catch when you hang around Jesus long enough, perhaps! Seriously, though, when I was 20, and believed then as you do now, I was unable to think more than a week or two ahead. Since everyone knew that Jesus was coming back in the immediate future, the only logical thing for a committed Christian to do was drop out of school, quit his job, and seek "full-time ministry" opportunities. Street evangelism. Travel with a pentecostal tent crusade. Serve as an unpaid volunteer on the staff of a street mission. All stuff you can do NOW, with minimal training or reflection.

One thing I have in common with that wild-eyed, long-haired Jesus Freak of 1970-1975 is -- a passionate desire to be in on what God is up to. Harnessed, however, to a more mature, and more demanding, understanding of God's purposes. I've taken on long-term projects, for example. My master's thesis is still cited by those who discuss the social maturity of home school children, still encouraging Christian parents to do right by their kids. My recently-completed doctoral dissertation will, I pray, open doors of faith to thoughtful Turkish Muslims, and bring many to Christ. Given genetic and lifestyle indicators, I can reasonably anticipate another 30 or more years of productive life -- and am eager to see what God has for the second half of my adult life. His transforming mercies, wisdom, and kindness experienced hitherto predispose me to expect great things ahead.

I do pray that you, too, will lay hold of God, and receive from Him a vision condign with His greatness, kindness, and power. Something a little more significant that reading the program for a spectator's spectacle!

46 posted on 02/04/2011 4:38:33 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: RJR_fan

I was actually referring to the man in the video.

But, I don’t see any difference in the way you are leading your life, and the way I and all of my friends who believe the same way I do, are leading our lives. Most of my friends are home school moms; they want the best for their kids’ futures. Same for me (can’t homeschool where I live - it’s illegal). My husband is looking at going back to school to get a master’s degree. We support the Tea Party, and are looking forward to the election of 2012! Hopefully we can restore some sanity (and morality) to our government. We are planning for the future. However, there are obvious signs of God intervening even now in the affairs of the world. To me, it is exciting to be a part of it all. It makes me want to make sure that I am completely and totally in His will, fulfilling His plan for my life - occupying until He comes. That is what His Word advises us to do.

And I will never back down or apologize for looking forward to His return.


47 posted on 02/04/2011 4:54:38 AM PST by cinciella
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To: vanilla swirl

“yes. I frequently try to talk with “Christians” about things going on in the world that we should be concerned about. They frequently give me a blank stare and say “Jesus is coming back to rapture us anyway so why should I care”. I also see a lot of missionary work being done as just “something to do”.”

Wow! You make them sound like robots!

I’ve been to many churches, in many denominations, in many countries, and I’ve never ever heard a Christian say “Jesus is coming back to rapture us anyway so why should I care.”

Never.

And, missionary work is too hard to be just “something to do”.


48 posted on 02/04/2011 4:59:42 AM PST by cinciella
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To: carcraft
1 Thessalonians 4:16 (i.e. context)

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. and the dead in Christ will rise first.

I dare say that no one will miss the trumpet of God nor will there be anything secret or selective in the event described in Thessalonians. The same is true for almost all the verses quoted to support the rapture. They're out of context and woven into a straw mat of verses carefully selected to buttress that theory.

Men, women, and children, were fed alive to wild beasts and burned alive to entertain the pagans, yet Christians alive at the appropriate point in time are going to be spared because ... Because why? Because enduring to the end is too horrible to think about?

Believe what you like about the rapture, but be very careful tossing around Bible verses without context and without ever even looking into the view of those verses that was held for the first eighteen hundred years of Church history.

There will be worldwide persecution at some point but that doesn't mean the people with the appropriate decoder ring will be snatched away to avoid it. Christ himself said you would suffer in this world and reconciling His promise that you would suffer with the theory that you'll be spared is interesting to say the least.

49 posted on 02/04/2011 5:16:46 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: sauropod

home


50 posted on 02/04/2011 5:20:30 AM PST by sauropod (The truth shall make you free but first it will make you miserable.)
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