Are we latching on to 'prosperity gospel'? Mormon/Anti-Christian

ROTFL! So I guess the mormons have the copyright on the "anti" tag.

That is SO last month!

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

December 15th, 2010

The word for January is -

ANTI !

ANTI anything will make us look good; because we ARE the tolerant folks!

Tommy

Disagreeing with various aspects of Mormon theology does not stop me from recognizing when one of them makes a valid point.

Yes; it does happen occasionally.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

There’s nothing Anti-Christian about the article whatsoever. This is just another weak thread by one of the anti-Mormon freeper gang. I don’t like how all of it is worded but again, nothing Anti-Christian about it.

Ah, the inconsistent two-faced one emerges from his lair to give us a fresh face on the meaning of the word, "hypocrisy."

Paragon Defender left & right on most threads hypersensitively references so-called "anti-Mormon" behavior that he "perceives".

And I'm not even referencing Paragon Defender's defense of this Mormon author going after a few preachers proclaiming a "prosperity gospel." (As far as I'm concerned, any prosperity gospel preacher is fair game to be hit up by any journalist, Mormon or otherwise).

What I'm specifically referencing is the tail end of the article highlighted by Greyfoxx:

"Silent judgments, inaccurate assumptions and frequent gossip become the norm. Prudent living and staying out of debt suddenly lose their appeal...I saw all of this unfold to one degree or another on my mission, among the poorest Pentecostals in South Dallas and the richest Baptists in Plano." (Mormon author McKay Coppins slamming Plano Baptists and Dallas Pentecostals)

Let's break down this clear "anti-Baptist" and "anti-Pentecost" Mormon slander that Paragon Defender is defending so that he actually "gets it":

Coppins, based purely on shallow anecdotal surmises, accuses Texas Baptists & Pentecostals of:
* "Silent judgments"
* "Frequent gossip[ing]"
* "Inaccurate assumptions"

The third category is too vague to address, so let's start with Coppins' initial accusation of Baptists & Pentecostals: "Silent judgments"

Is that like "Silent intolerance?"...
Or "silent cursings?"...
Or "silent swearing?"...
And here all these years I thought keeping a rein on the tongue was actually a "good" thing...
...until Mormon writer McKay Coppins comes along & tells us that he's a living Mormon mind-reader...
...(perhaps he uses a personal seer stone or a Magic 8-ball??? & is able to discern all of these "silent judgments" pinballing around in people's heads that most missionaries never really get to know very well).

What do I mean by "really never gets to know very well?"

Well, let's count the ways:
(1) Lds mishies only get one day off per week...but it's NOT really a "day off" -- it's deemed "preparation" day & it's rarely off hob-nobbing with people of other denominations.

One visit that he outlined to a church does not make for a full-blown stereotypical projection about how 'frequent' Pentecostals & people of many different Baptist denominations gossip!!! Besides, there's...
...Southern Baptists,
...independent Baptists,
...the American Baptist denomination,
...fundamentalist Baptists,
...and others...(and here Mormons get on our case all the time for not distinguishing between the varied Mormon groups for crying out loud!!!!)

(2) When mishies do get into "contact" convos, it's usually straight-to-their point...they don't like to dilly-dally too long 'bout the weather. So it's on to "spiritual" teaching lessons.

(3) Mishies take their bikes everywhere -- or walk -- rarely do they take public transporation. Likewise, they rarely eat out. (So there goes many Mishies' ops to tune in on others' conversations)

(4) Note that Coppins not only accuses Baptists & Pentecostals of engaging in "silent judgments," but being "frequent gossips."

Could Mormon mishies have enough time to discern patterns of gossip? Of course, they could. But Mormon leadership often:

(a) Transfers a Mormon mishie after a year to somewhere else -- giving the mishie even less time to size up, interact & accurately portray a given culture;

(b) Tells mishies to proselytize by essentially honing in on the vulnerable ("receptive") people & to essentially "get out of Dodge" homes that might be small-talking w/out any advancement toward "spiritual" things. The overwhelming number of their contacts don't get into enough of a significant convo to where they are talking about other people to gossip about them;

(c) Literally imposes 14-dozen intricate rules upon mishies, including social behavior -- rules that I wouldn't even treat a sixth grader with, let alone an adult. They don't have much-if-any purely social hob nob time w/people of other faiths in their 70-hour work weeks (10 to 10 type of scheds);

(d) One rule is that Mormon mishies are not to spend time with females beyond their normal proselytizing.

Given that it's been scientifically proven that the average woman roughly speaks twice as many words per day than the average man -- guess which sex might be prone to engaging in more "frequent gossip" Coppins accuses Baptists and Pentecostals of?

That's right -- the one sex that Mormon mishies are verboten to hang around with socially! [So McKay hung out with enough rich Baptist men and poor Pentecostal men on a sustained basis to make such across-the-board conclusions? Did Coppins break mishie rules & hung out with a few Baptist & Pentecostal women on a sustained basis? How does he know how "frequent" they gossip to stereotypically plaster his judgmentalism upon many different denominations? Inquiring minds want to know!]

[Disclaimer: Before anybody digs into me re: how often women vs. men hypothetically gossip, it wouldn't surprise me that women may utter fewer gossips "per word" than men -- or are about even "per word" ... all this is an unknown stat ... but I do know that the average NFL team that puts the ball in the air about twice as much as any other team is likely to have more interceptions -- even if they have fewer interceptions per pass attempts than the rest...& the average NBA team that attempts twice as many 3-pointers are simply likely to have a lower shooting % -- even if their 3-point shooting % is much higher than the rest]

Coppins should apologize for his anti-Baptist, anti-Pentecostal accusation that they are "frequent gossips" -- and Paragon Defender, too, for defending him!

Coppins' assertation is based upon...
...pure anecdotalism...
...likely lack of sustained contact to even guesstimate "how 'frequent'" it occurs...
...and is guilty of broad-brushing not only all Pentecostals but many different Baptist denominations.

I guess for Paragon Defender's two-faced views, it's "A-OK" to engage in denominational critiquing and/or mud-slinging as long as Mormons are not targeted. (Once again, he accumulates a poor credibility rating by choosing to defend that which is indefensible!)

lol another wall of propaganda text “let’s break it down” bonanza by our favorite anti-Mormon leader.

Once again accusing me of “defending” something I am not. I said I didn’t like the way all of it was worded but it is not Anti-Christian. That’s a simple truthful fact that you in no way showed it to be. I’ll repeat it for the blind and deaf... there was Nothing Anti-Christian about it.

Thanks for once again demonstrating the depth of your over-the-top obsessiveness.

I’ll repeat it for the blind and deaf... there was Nothing Anti-Christian about it.

Well, there you have it Inmans...everytime we see that "anti-mormon" label pinned on our work, all we have to do is say " I’ll repeat it for the blind and deaf... there was Nothing Anti-mormon about it." I'm sure that will stop the PDSpam posting.

Thanks, PD.

I don't know grey seems like maybe this statement is anti: Unofficially, though, we were there to satisfy our curiosity and maybe even find a little Sunday morning entertainment.

Appears they are saying that are going to church to mock and be entertained. I find that "a bit" anti.

It's kinda like THESE mormon mishies

HERE

The Chieftan reported that Sangre de Cristo Catholic Church members discovered a Web photo Thursday that showed an LDS missionary holding the severed head of a statue at the shrine. Residents since found the head had been replaced, the Chieftan said.

Other photos, also posted on the Photobucket Web site, but removed after Thursday, depicted another missionary who appeared to preach from the Book of Mormon inside the Chapel of All Saints. A third photo showed one missionary pretending to sacrifice another on the altar at the Shrine of the Mexican Martyrs.

It's all just in good fun, mocking those gentiles donchaknow. Not "anti-Christian" at all.

Mormons make the same mistake that Job’s friends made. They assumed Job had committed some great sin because of the trial he was going through, but the Lord cleared that up pretty convincingly. A person’s riches or lack thereof have absolutely nothing to do with their righteousness.

A person’s riches or lack thereof have absolutely nothing to do with their righteousness.

Bingo

Thanks for once again demonstrating the depth of your over-the-top obsessiveness.

You are SO welcome!!

Mormon Missionary Rules

Learn and obey all missionary rules.
Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
Don't debate or argue.
Center your mind on your mission.
Dress conservatively. Elders: white shirts, conservative ties, and business suits. Sisters: conservative colors and skirts that cover your knees. No floor-length skirts or dresses.
Cut your hair regularly.
Keep your hair clean and neatly combed at all times in the approved style.
Be neat and clean.
Bathe frequently.
Use deodorant.
Polish your shoes.
Iron your shirt and business suit.
Arise at 6:30 A.M.
Study for 2 hours every morning.
Proselytize for 10 hours between 9:30 A.M. and 9:30 P.M.
Turn off your lights at 10:30 P.M.
Exercise regularly.
Write in your journal regularly.
Follow the "Missionary Gospel Study Program" (31157) for your personal study.
Regularly study the Missionary Guide and the Discussions.
Attend Sunday priesthood or Relief Society meetings, Sunday School, and sacrament meeting.
Attend the general session of Stake Conference.
Attend general conference broadcasts if available.
Avoid all other church meetings unless you have a special assignment or are brining an investigator.
Proselytize as much as possible on weekends and holidays because this is when you'll find people home.
End your preparation day at 6:00 P.M. and proselytize from 6:00 P.M. to 9:30 P.M.
Wear your missionary uniform in public on preparation day while not engaged in recreational activities.
Arise at 6:30 on preparation day and study for 2 hours from the approved books.
Take care of your physical preparation for the week on preparation day: wash your clothes, clean your apartment, wash your car, get your haircut, and shop for groceries.
Write to your parents every week on preparation day.
Write less frequently to your siblings, friends, and acquaintances.
Don't communicate with any friends or acquaintances that are within or close to your mission boundaries, except as a part of official mission business.
Plan safe, wholesome, and uplifting activities for preparation day.
Stay with your companion during all activities.
Do not go on road trips.
Do not leave your assigned area without permission ("District leaders must approve travel outside your area within the district; zone leaders must approve travel outside your district within the zone; and the mission president must approve travel outside the zone.")
Do not watch television.
Do not view unauthorized videocassettes.
Do not listen to the radio.
Do not listen to unauthorized audiocassettes or CD’s.
Do not participate in musical groups.
Do not participate in athletic teams.
Do not sponsor athletic teams.
Do not engage in contact sports.
Do not engage in water sports.
Do not engage in winter sports.
Do not engage in motorcycling.
Do not engage in horseback riding.
Do not engage in mountain climbing.
Do not embark on a private boat.
Do not embark in a private airplane.
Do not handle firearms.
Do not handle explosives.
Do not swim.
Do not play full court basketball.
Do not play basketball in leagues.
Do not play basketball in tournaments.
You may play half-court basketball.
Never be alone.
Seek advice from your mission president if your companion is "having difficulties".
Be loyal to your companion.
Ask your mission president for help if your companion doesn’t obey the rules.
Pray with your companion every day.
Study with your companion every day.
Plan your work with your companion every day.
Take time at least once a week for companionship inventory.
Seek to be one in spirit and purpose and help each other succeed.
Always address your companion as Elder or Sister.
Sleep in the same bedroom as your companion.
Do not sleep in the same bed as your companion.
Do not arise before your companion.
Do not retire after your companion. (apparently, being together is more important than getting the correct amount of sleep that your unique body requires.)
Frequently study with your companion the Missionary Guide section on companions.
Never be alone with anyone of the opposite sex.
Never associate inappropriately with anyone of the opposite sex (conversely, they don't mention whether or not it is against the rules to associate inappropriately with anyone of the same sex).
Do not flirt.
Do not date.
Do not communicate via phone or letter with anyone of the opposite sex living within or near mission boundaries.
Do not visit a single or divorced person of the opposite sex unless accompanied by a couple or another adult member of your sex.
Try to teach single investigators in a member’s home or have missionaries of the same sex teach them.
Always follow the above rules, even if the situation seems harmless.
Use the commitment pattern to get referrals from members.
Keep your dinner visits with member briefs and during the customary dinner hour in the area.
Remember to say thank you to those who feed you.
Visit members and nonmembers only at appropriate times.
Do not counsel or give medical treatment.
Do not stay in the homes of people when they are on vacation.
Only write letters to family members and friends at home.
Do not telephone parents (in some areas, the mission president will make an exception to this rule and will allow 2 phone calls per year: one on Christmas and one on Mother's day. But the actual rule in the handbook does not give any exceptions. In my mission, the mission president affirmed that the rule in the handbook is unambiguous: Don't telephone your parents, no exceptions).
Do not telephone relatives.
Do not telephone friends.
Do not telephone girlfriends.
Contact your mission president in case of an emergency.
Take problems and questions to your mission president.
Do not write to the President of the Church or to other General Authorities. Letters from missionaries to General Authorities are referred back to the mission president (There are no checks, balances, or appeals when it comes to the authority of the mission president).
Respect the customs, traditions, and property of the people who you are trying to convert (I have to wonder, isn't it intrinsically disrespectful to their customs and traditions when your purpose for engaging them is to convert them from their customs and traditions and to yours?)
Obey all mission rules.
Obey the laws of the land.
Do not get involved in politics.
Do not get involved in commercial activities.
Do not give any information about the area.
Respect the customs and cultures of those who you are trying to convert to your own customs and culture.
Respect the beliefs, practices, and sites of other religions.
Do not say or write anything bad about the political and cultural circumstances where you serve.
Do not become involved in adoption proceedings.
Do not suggest or encourage emigration. (This rule is a bit ironic, given the now-defunct doctrine of gathering the believers to Zion)
Be courteous.
Provide community service.
Do not provide community service that isn’t approved by your mission president.
Do not provide more than 4 hours a week of community service.
Do not provide community service during the evening, weekend or holidays—those are peek proselytizing times.
Your mission president must approve your housing.
Keep your housing unit clean.
Do not live with single or divorced people of the opposite sex.
Do not live where the spouse is frequently absent.
Your living unit must have a private bath and entrance.
You may occasionally fast for a special reason, but generally the monthly fast is sufficient.
Do not fast longer than 24 hours at a time.
Do not ask friends, relatives, and members to join in special fasts for investigators. (I wonder if this is because prayer and fasting doesn't cause strangers to convert and consequently proves to be a faith-demoting experience).
Maintain your health.
Eat a healthy diet.
Sleep from 10:30 to 6:30.
Follow the approved exercise program.
Keep your body, clothes, dishes, linens, towels and housing unit clean.
Dispose of your garbage properly and promptly.
Follow the safety rules for all of your stuff.
Seek medical care if you are in an accident or become sick.
Be immunized.
Spend your money only on things relating to your mission.
Budget your money carefully.
Keep a record of what you spend.
Do not spend more than your companion.
Do not loan money.
Do not borrow money.
Keep a reserve fund of $50 to $100 at all times for transfers.
Pay your bills before leaving an area.
Pay cash for all resale literature and supplies ordered from the mission office.
Do not waste money on souvenirs.
Do not waste money on unnecessary items.
Be a frugal photographer.
Do not accumulate excess baggage.
Obey custom laws and regulations.
Pay fast offerings each fast Sunday to the bishop or branch president where you serve.
Pay tithing on outside sources of income (i.e. interest) to your home bishop or branch president.
Evaluate your funds a few months before the end of your mission. If you have more than you need, ask that less be sent so that you can return home without excess money.
Do not drive without a license.
Drive only Church-owned vehicles.
Do not drive members’ cars.
Do not drive nonmembers’ cars.
Do not give rides to members or investigators in Church-owned cars. (A few investigators have asked me why the missionaries are reluctant to offer them a ride to church. The answer: giving rides is against the rules).
Use cars only on approved mission business.
Use cars only within the assigned geographical area.
Be conscious of safety at all times.
Drive defensively.
Wear your seat belt.
Pray for the Lord’s protection while driving.
If your companion is driving, assist him or her.
Do not tamper with the vehicles odometer.
Know bicycle safety rules.
Use extreme caution on your bicycle.
Do not ride your bicycle after dark.
Do not ride your bicycle in heavy traffic.
Do not ride your bicycle in adverse weather conditions.
Go directly to your new area when transferred.
Find your new companion without delay when transferred.
Have a maximum of two suitcases and a briefcase.

Conclusion:

The Mormon Scriptures teach that the purpose of life is a test to see if we will do everything that God commands us to (Abraham 3:25). Once we get pretty advanced in the game God might push the envelope on this and command us to do something totally bizarre and immoral such as killing our children (Genesis 22:2), but most of us never reach that level.

The Mormon missionary is given innumerable opportunities every day to show God that he will obey. The missionary's life is defined by rules. The rules dictate who he will be with, what he does with each hour of the week, which books he may read, and that he won't receive information about the world through radio, TV, newspapers, magazines, or the Internet. And he is assigned a vigilante to follow him around 24-7 to make sure he obeys. A church video about missionary life has a scene depicting a missionary reading the newspaper. That missionary was breaking the rules.

Last night, my wife saw me reading the Missionary Guide. It brought back all sorts of nasty memories from her mission and she said I must be a masochist for reading it. I laughed at that, but now I'm wondering if she had a point--just thinking about the mission rules is painful to me. As a missionary, I felt that the mission, God's church, and ultimately God himself despised individuality and freedom. My efforts to obey the mission rules resulted in immeasurable amounts of emotional and physical pain. I have had Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis since I was a child, and it was impossible to take care of my body and obey the missionary rules. So, I tortured my body throughout my mission, and abused it to the point where I literally couldn't stand, much less walk.

The mission rules caused my body permanent damage, and did serious damage to my emotional health--I've been home for over 10 years and apparently I still haven't completely recovered.

The above are the rules from The Missionary Handbook (commonly known as the "White Bible"). It is a little booklet that the missionaries carry in their shirt pocket. There are many rules the missionary is subjected to that aren't in the White Bible, but these are the basics. I am frequently asked if I am serious about these rules. The answer is yes. A few parenthetical comments have been added.

As you think about these rules, it is worth also considering psychologist Steven Hassan's BITE model. Hassan asserts that if a group passes a certain threshold of manipulating its members behaviors, thoughts, emotions, and access to information, the group is rightly categorized as a cult and is exercising destructive mind control. You can read about his model here. You may decide for yourself if such manipulation exists, if it is harmful, and whether or not the Mormon missionary experience is a good example of this phenomenon. Here is a site that brings the BITE model to bear on the Mormon missionary program.

(From --> http://www.lds4u.com/Missionaries/rules.htm )

Once again accusing me of “defending” something I am not.

Tell us AGAIN why Headquarters will NOT allow you MORMONs to drink Cokes®.

I cannot find it in the Word of Wisdom

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

But their EXALTATION does depend on their OBEDIENCE.

Well, I guess those wandering tribes still haven’t left the tendency to Mishnafy life behind.

Well; I can say that I am mishnafied!

1. Learn and obey all missionary rules.
2. Keep your thoughts, words, and actions in harmony with the gospel message.
3. Read only books, magazines, and other material authorized by the Church.
4. Don't debate or argue.
5. Center your mind on your mission.

Hey PD!

Would most of your links be OK with command #3?

Learn and obey ...

7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

Well, that's a waste of a good whiskey.

1 Timothy 4

¹ The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. ² Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. ³ They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. ⁴ For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, ⁵ because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

The above verses are DEFINITELY anti-MORMON!

WOW!

“How many Latter-day Saints will allow themselves to fall prey to the prosperity gospel?”

You mean like the benefits of giving 10% to the church?