Celestial Marriage & Eternal Exaltation / Redefining Celestial Marriage [Mormonism/Anti-Christian]

Mormonism Research Ministry ^ | Lane Thuet and Bill McKeever

[delacoert]

... the monogamous relationship currently stressed by the LDS Church is but a brief interlude before polygamy commences again.

To be sure, this is one teaching that few investigators will hear while taking the missionary lessons.

[Paragon Defender]

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their former Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, quote and straw man attack that. Almost without fail you will see examples of this following this post.

Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think. So again, seek the truth. They aren't providing it. Use your God-given brain and discernment.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

[delacoert]

Unresponsive and limp-wristed as usual.

[MHGinTN]

Ah yes, the usual nothing but links to search through from Parsimonious Defrauder spam post. And Of course when I post the following direct quotes WITH THE SOURCES from your false prophet and subsequent leadership of the LDS you will have no response to the blasphemies that are exposed, standing as mute witness that mormonism is definitely NOT Christianity.

I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)

"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321 )

”You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god...” (Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88)

”If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]” (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

"There is 'no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190)

”I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, “Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;” if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again.” (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155)

”It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation …“ (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670)

"No man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven without the approbation of the prophet Joseph Smith, jun. ... If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the prophet Joseph. If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass. Can you pass without his inspection? No; neither can any person in this dispensation of the fulness of time. In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this prophet." (Journal of Discourses, volume 8 number 224, October 21, 1860) [ http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/volume-08/]

[aMorePerfectUnion]

[Mormonism/Anti-Christian]

Thank you for highlighting that mormonism is anti-Christian.

In every way, it is anti-Christian.

ampu

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Mormonism is not Christianity. FYI -->

Christian churches teach belief in God as an eternal, self-existent, immortal being, unfettered by corporeal limitations and unchanging in both character and nature. In recent years, several Christian denominations have made studies of Mormon teaching and come to the conclusion that there are irreconcilable differences between LDS doctrine and Christian beliefs based on the Bible.
• Statement of the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod
• Statement of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
• Statement of the Roman Catholic Church
• Statement of the Southern Baptist Convention
• Statement of the United Methodist Church
• Statement of the Assemblies of God Church

[aMorePerfectUnion]

An Open Letter to Mormons who are
sincere about their faith...

 

(and slightly embarrassed by the posts of self-styled
"defender-mormons" who can only post links of non-answers)

 

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums
you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of
Christians who spend a great deal of time posting
from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of
Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church
materials - real quotes from real mormon materials.

 

You will also notice that many of these Christians
are former Mormons who left Mormonism and come to
know the Biblical Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace.

 

They have a passion to reach Mormons to share what
they learned about Salvation by grace and apart
from the never ending treadmill of human works...

 

Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very,
small group of Mormons who have zeal, but no real
knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told
them. You've seen this with your own eyes on this
thread and others, so I'm not telling you anything

you don't already know.

 

Why can't these so-called "defenders" provide any:

 

… Objective Facts
… Objective Evidence
… Or Logical support

 

Anything OBJECTIVE that any reasonable person would
see and agree that it lends support the claims of
Mormonism.

 

Why can't they do this?

 

If Mormonism is true, why is it based only on

subjective feelings and why doesn't it have the

same kind of objective support the Bible does?

 

Has God changed?

 

Is He no longer able to weave His story into history,

into the fabric of human DNA, into the findings of

archeology, and into geography? Do you believe He has

become powerless?

 

I bet you do not believe that.

 

So why would God provide every kind of objective support
for the Bible's rich history and none for the Book of
Mormon? Why?

 

These "defenders" post links over and over again that
“address” things yet never provide an answer that is
buttressed by the ring of truth, echoed by history,
archeology, genetics, geography, etc.

 

If they could support the claims of Mormonism with facts,
you know they would. But it never happens here. You may

be new to these threads, but I've read almost every one

for the past 6 years. I can tell you that it is always

the same as this thread. No facts, no evidence, no logical

argument. 

 

People deserve more than subjective feelings and useless
links to non-answers.

 

You deserve more than feelings and hollow links.

 

After reading both sides on this thread and others,
you may very well be wondering about what you were
taught when you joined the LDS church. You also may
be wondering how to resolve the lack of facts, evidence
and logical suport for Mormonism's claims.

 

You are not alone in wondering this.

 

Many have approached those of us who are Christians
asking where to find out more and some, even, to ask
how to come to know the Biblical Christ and some even how
to gracefully leave Mormonism and start a new life with
Christ.

 

Many here have already set out to finally and joyfully know
the true God and Savior. They understand the terrible choice
of being totally sincere about your faith, but increasingly
concerned that it isn't everything you once believed and hoped

for.

After coming to know the truth, they are on a path that gives

them the rest God promised to His children and the certainty

of His ultimate plan for them. Nothing brings them greater joy

than helping a friend who has the same questions.

 

There are places online that you can visit to learn more about

Mormonism.

 

If something is true, it can withstand any question, no matter

how tough. If it is false, it is better to know while your life

is in front of you. You can read these resources without fear.

 

http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/

 

Links may raise more questions and concerns and sometimes it
helps to have someone who has already wrestled through these
issues.

 

I invite you to private FReep-mail any of the Christians
on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have.

 

We always do our best to directly answer your questions with
facts, evidence and logical support.

 

Take a step.

 

Roll the dice.

 

What do you have to lose at this point? And you have much to

gain. 

 

There is peace and rest waiting for you.

 

 

All the Best,
ampu

[MamaB]

No man, and I don’t care who he is, has any say over who goes to Heaven. The Bible does not teach that.

[MHGinTN]

Ah but it is foundational dogma in Mormonism!

And did you know that LDS also taught and may still teach that Jesus was a polygamist? And in fact more than one of their leadership has surmised that it was his participation in polygamy which got him crucified!

"Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).

"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).

"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).

"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346).

And is/was the Mormon jesus, God with us? NO! Not according to Mormonism. Moronism teaches that the Mormon jesus gained the attributes of godhood and was not therefore God with us prior to the resurrection! And they teach that the Mormon jesus and satan are spirit brothers in a ‘pre-existence’, making the Mormon jesus an equal with not superior to the created angels … of course prior to gaining the attributes of Mormon godhood. [Literally, according to the founders of Mormonism, the LDS jesus is our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents --that's right, they believe in multiple gods and goddesses-- in a ‘premortal life‘. According to Mormonism, Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (LDS Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)(D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354) ]

[greyfoxx39]

[MHGinTN]

Presuming you are a woman, the following may also be of interest to you (shoutout to dragonblustar); notice the text at the bottom of the picutre insert, quoted from the Journal of Discourses, of course!

[Vendome]

IAPD

[Godzilla]

[dragonblustar]

[delacoert]

Thank you for highlighting that mormonism is anti-Christian.

In every way, it is anti-Christian.

Clearly, examination of any list of Mormon heresies ...

(e.g., Salvation after all you can do - works, polytheism, non-trinitarianism, eternal progression - god was once a man and we can become gods, fictional books as scripture, atonement occurring at Gethsemane, the shedding of Christ's blood does nothing to cover our individual sins, celestial marriage - including polygamy, all churches are wrong with their professors universally corrupt and all their creeds an abomination, Lucifer is the spirit brother of Jesus, the preexistence of souls, God the father has a body of flesh and blood, God the father came back to earth and had sex with the virgin Mary to give Jesus a physical body, etc. - see link.)

... reveals Mormonism as being anti-Christian.

The tactics of the Mormon posters on the FR Religion forum are also relevant:

1. Plain truth articles about Mormon error are key-worded "anti-Mormon" by Mormon posters on the FR Religion forum
2. The use of the "Other Non-Christian" topic tag on plain truth articles about Mormon error has been prohibited by Mods as a result of Mormon FReeper lobbying.
3. Those who post plain truth articles about Mormon error are badmouthed as "anti-Mormons" by Mormon posters on the FR Religion forum
4. Former Mormons who post plain truth articles about Mormon error have been denounced for being immoral and/or weak willed.

So...

... So be it. Plain truth articles about Mormon error will be title-tagged "anti-Christian" by me unless - capriciously prohibited.

[dragonblustar]

[dragonblustar]

Anything to help!

[Godzilla]

"It's hard to keep a lie straight."

Well, for the lady, he FIRST must choose to call her past the veil. Then she'll be bare foot and pregnant all eternity sharing her 'husband-god' with uncounted other sister wives.

Now isn't that a nice prospect ladies.

[SZonian]

Well done.

[dragonblustar]

the surprise for waiting many mormon men..........