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PHILADELPHIA PRIESTS ACCUSED BY GRAND JURY OF SEXUAL ABUSE AND COVER-UP
New York Times ^ | 2-10-11 | Jon Hurdle

Posted on 02/11/2011 7:11:53 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg

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To: Antoninus

I hate the abusers and those that protected them. But to me they are not the Church. They bring great shame and scandal to the Church and I think it is long past time for some very serious house cleaning. With rules that allow no wiggle room when credible accounts of abuse are received and where the victim does not request not involving the police (I mean adult victims who are reporting long ago abuse not children who report current abuse) the authorities must be informed. If there is a separate investigation by the Diocese all information that is pertinent to establishing the facts in the allegations must be shared with the civil authorities.

If a priest is found guilty either by internal investigation or by the courts he should be removed from any public ministry. There should be no transfers unless that is the only way to assure he is not in public ministry.

But mainly we have to pray that good men don’t balk at becoming priests because of the scandal and because of the hatred it instills towards the Church.


51 posted on 02/11/2011 10:44:47 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: metmom

Quite so. To

“The other its that presents the Church to the world as a hypocritical, self-serving, old boy network which is more intent on protecting its own from civil penalties, that it is in protecting the laity from IT”

I would add that priests are brothers to other priests not the laity.


52 posted on 02/11/2011 10:58:10 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom; Dr. Eckleburg
I usually don't like to "pile it on" on these kind of threads but read them for information. As we have seen there are some Catholics who rightfully condemn the actions and others who blame the victims and/or imagine that nothing is ever the "Church's" fault, but only with individuals. Well, we all know that no person is perfect and that, even when we come to Christ in faith, we still battle with sin in our lives.

But I am simply amazed at the continued anger that gets directed at those who let others know about crimes within the hierarchy of the Catholic Church that not only protect the clergy who are accused but refuse to remove them from contact with the very ones with whom they are accused of violating. We are commanded to avoid every appearance of evil and that should go double for those who wear the mantle of leadership. It is heartbreaking whenever we hear of any child who is harmed physically, emotionally and spiritually but is especially grievous that those who are given responsibility for children's spiritual well-being end up destroying a child's faith because of their own selfish and perverted desires.

I am GLAD that these crimes are being exposed and I hope that those in authority who have been deluded into thinking that they could escape prosecution because of their station come smack up against a mighty and fearful God who says "Be sure your sins will find you out.". I hope we all pray for the innocents who have been damaged that God will heal their hearts as well as their bodies and that their spirits are renewed in Him. With God all things are possible!

Hebrews 10:30-31

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

53 posted on 02/11/2011 11:02:25 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: metmom
And yet there’s no end to the number of Catholics who are willing to condemn non-Catholics for criticizing priests who molest children.

There are no Catholics who condemn non-Catholics for criticizing priests who molest children. Indeed, no one feels more disgust at these priests than Catholics. Nor should bishops who did not act against these priests be spared. But it is false and a gross injustice to state that there was ever a deliberate and official policy by the church to cover-up these crimes. Such actions that did occur were those of individual bishops who should be held accountable.

False charges of criminal conspiracy are being leveled at the Catholic Church and Catholics have every right to object.

54 posted on 02/11/2011 11:10:58 PM PST by Petrosius
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To: Antoninus

For many it has little to do with hating the Catholic Church. It has a lot to do with seeing the abuse happen to school mates and seeing the devastation in elderly parishoners who are incredulous that such a thing could happen.


55 posted on 02/11/2011 11:13:55 PM PST by ladyjane
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

It seems that this practice of molesting boys is the life-blood of the Catholic hierarchy...It’s recruitment activity...How else could they get enough young men who have sworn off women to come into the single-male priesthood???

And what is it with ‘altar-boys’...Why does that group exist??? Is that where young boys are groomed and weeded out for their journey into the deeper secrets of the priesthood???


56 posted on 02/12/2011 12:40:14 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

The Roman Catholic church destroyed so many lives by rape and by covering up and by accusing victims.

I left the church (and all religions) in disgust years ago. I will trust logic, reason and intellect over the fables and stories of religion.


57 posted on 02/12/2011 12:44:16 AM PST by Sto Zvirat
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: Dr. Eckleburg

Nice try. Not. You haven’t proved your point with official Roman Catholic Church documents. Instead, you attempted to misrepresent one thing as another. Next time you make the attempt, at least make a try to find something applicable. Heck, make a decent effort. This time, FAIL. I will still pray for you. God bless, Dr.


59 posted on 02/12/2011 4:10:16 AM PST by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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To: sarasmom

It’s worse coming from someone who claims to be speaking in God’s stead, who claims to be one of Christ’s representatives here on earth.

Leaders in the church are to be held to a much higher standard of behavior and integrity than non-leaders. It’s a given. The thing that makes it more reprehensible is that it taints a child’s image of God in a way that no other person can.

Nobody is really condemning that it happened. We all understand that things like that will on occasion. Realistically, there is simply no way to prevent it.

That’s not the point. The point is that it was not dealt with, it was covered up, priests were reassigned, victims are blamed to be looking just for a cash layout, victimizing them yet again.

The clear teaching of Scripture (1 Corinthians 5) is that the immoral brother in the church be expelled. Church discipline MUST take place. Failure to do so is absolutely inexcusable and THAT is what is being criticized.

If sin within the church isn’t dealt with expediently and appropriately, it will continue and get worse. That is what has happened in these cases. It wasn’t until the WORLD got involved that appropriate steps were taken. That should have never happened. It should have been nipped in the bud the MINUTE it was found out, not only after negative publicity forced the church to take action as damage control.


60 posted on 02/12/2011 5:36:26 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Antoninus; Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
You know nothing of the particulars of this situation. The city of Philadelphia--you remember, those fine people who are attempting to evict the Boy Scouts from their headquarters for not allowing homosexual scout masters--have been after the Church for years, using these accusations as a hammer.

THE BOY SCOUTS have been doing a better job of protecting their boys than the Catholic church has. See? It can be done.

What an indictment against the Catholic church.

61 posted on 02/12/2011 5:39:05 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Dr.
Please tell me how you do this when the whole system of Justice is corrupt. You have these type people sitting on courts throughout our country. They are deeply embedded in every profession in America. I once knew a State Supreme Court Justice who was a pervert and used his position for sexual favors. Those over the system regularly violate the law and use their positions to get away with it.The legislatures in most state are about the same,they scratch each others back.America is the most corrupt nation on the face of the earth. So called professionals should be held to a higher standard but in most cases they are the ones lowering the standards.
62 posted on 02/12/2011 5:41:53 AM PST by RocketRoland
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To: lastchance; TheDingoAteMyBaby

I would agree with TheDingo, though. It IS a factor.

He didn’t say it was the only factor, however, and yes, proper teaching on sexuality is too.

You’d think that Catholic priests would be aware of hat though.


63 posted on 02/12/2011 5:43:32 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MarMema
And, as an Orthodox priest asked us after a sermon recently, who can follow all the commandments perfectly? (much less what Scripture teaches us)

That argument in defense of the priests who molest children makes me want to puke.

Molesting children is not an *oops, I slipped* moment. It is a deliberate, thought out act that requires planning to arrange the circumstances for. Putting it in the same category of a sin that someone commits under pressure or through lack of planning or being in the wrong place at the wrong time or seeing something one shouldn't have is disingenuous and reprehensible.

64 posted on 02/12/2011 5:47:32 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Iscool
And what is it with ‘altar-boys’...Why does that group exist??? Is that where young boys are groomed and weeded out for their journey into the deeper secrets of the priesthood???

Quoted to illustrate the level of imbecility these discussions sink to.

65 posted on 02/12/2011 5:52:02 AM PST by Puddleglum (yes, my homepage: http://www.phawkins.com)
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To: Puddleglum; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
And what is it with ‘altar-boys’...Why does that group exist??? Is that where young boys are groomed and weeded out for their journey into the deeper secrets of the priesthood???


The EVIDENCE would indicate--that's a PERFECTLY REASONABLE question.

imho, ONLY those who live in chronic, broad, deep DENIAL about the Vatican Alice In Wonderland School Of Theology, Reality Mangling, Chronic Professional Blaming, Wailing and Whining Cult

would think otherwise.

66 posted on 02/12/2011 7:04:26 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: metmom; All
"Well, you make the third Catholic on FR who I’ve ever seen in no uncertain terms condemn what has happened"

I can't speak for others on FR but if they're guilty, I'm ready, willing, and able, to lead an all Catholic firing squad and can assure you I'll have no shortage of volunteers. We'll even bill the local Bishop for the bullets if you like.

It's funny to see people who condemn the Church for a history of violence and stern discipline complain about them being too careful when someone is charged with crimes. So many of these posts read like 16th century German propaganda that it's simply amazing, and they applied the same tales to Catholics and Jews back then. At least we've got less aimed at Jews by Catholics and Protestants alike these days although the fascist left is the has more than compensated.

Without going into detail, trust me, there are plenty of Protestant pastors and youth group leaders around up to the same thing and more. Plenty. You can check any search engine and find all you like which is what the atheists and little anti-Christs do all the time. Saying this is unique to or more common in the Catholic Church is an outright lie. Protestant you may be, but to the world at large Christian is Christian and in spite of Protestants being by far the majority in this country beating up on the RCC does as much damage to Protestants as it does to the Catholics.

Those who ply their trade in clever remarks here and think they're doing some good aren't, but they are doing great harm. You harm Christ any time you slander another professing Christian before others, even those Christians you have doctrinal differences with. There's no telling how may who don't know Christ read here and decide, "a pox on all your houses, you bunch of squabbling, pedophile, Christians" after reading link and counter link to pedophile incidents. I've heard as much and have talked to those with hardened hearts after seeing such debates. Slathering one another with "It's Just Sin Ointment" (available in six all natural scents) is almost as bad but at least that approach looks more like what it is, just your opinion, since it’s generally accompanied by fewer links.

While they seem like just endless arguments, someone is winning everyone of these tag team match arguments on FR, and it's that master of divide and conquer tactics, Satan. Sister da Penguin from "The Blues Brothers" should show up and smack all of us around until we start being honest about the source of sin and stop laying it at one anothers' feet.

have a nice day

67 posted on 02/12/2011 7:10:25 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: metmom

met, indeed you would. Some of this can be laid at the feet of radical changes in seminary education. In the sixties the same crackpot ideas which were endorsed by the so called experts in sociology and psychology regarding matters of sexuality found a home in many seminaries. These ideas are incompatible with Christianity and how they were allowed to take root grieves and angers me greatly.

Unfortunately young men in seminary like too many students in uni or college have the notion that if a person is a teacher or has some other stamp of expertise they must be right and not open to challenge. So they took in the toxins and too often it polluted and corrupted the right teaching on sexuality. In many instances it was probably relatively harmless.

But for those who had rebellious hearts and who had evil intent in sexual behavior it served as encouragement and validation of their corrupt life style. It meant a rejection of the good sexual teachings of Scripture and embracing the “if it feels good do it” mantra of the sexual revulsion (revolution.)

God did not lay down the rules about sex to hold us back. He did it because He desires all else our true happiness here and in heaven. Obeying the Bible on matters is truly freeing as it celebrates how we are created with out us falling into carnal sin. It really is that simple.

God orders it, we obey. He is God for a reason.


68 posted on 02/12/2011 7:14:10 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Quix
"And what is it with ‘altar-boys’...Why does that group exist???"

That may be a bit harsh. Getting the youth involved in the Church and worship is commendable. It's important to everyone, especially when young, to feel you're an important part of something bigger than yourself. It strengthens one in their mission and walk. To the extent it also serves to encourage, recruit and train future clergy is a good thing. Granted, the Romanists may have corrupted the institution for their own ends but the concept, in itself, is sound and worthy.

69 posted on 02/12/2011 7:19:17 AM PST by circlecity
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To: circlecity

Yes, THAT goal is wonderful.

The question is still reasonable . . . it’s quite plausible that . . . various individuals in the hierarchy had . . . uhhh . . . at least mixed motives.


70 posted on 02/12/2011 7:26:57 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RocketRoland
To claim that America is the most corrupt nation on earth is an outright lie. Due to the checks and balance system created by the founding fathers it has given us one of the most fair nations in the world. Do people and groups of people still do wrong things, yes. However, our system is one the best in the world. If you want to see real corruption go to one of these third world countries.

As far as the abuse done by priests in the catholic church, I can't help but think that if this was not a religious organization but a secular one, it would have been charged under RICO and closed down completely. From everything I have researched there was deliberate intent by the leaders in the catholic church to silence, cover-up, and prevent priests from being held accountable for their actions.

Many catholics place the blame on the 60’s but from my research there were cases like this going on prior to the 60’s.

Personally I think celibacy for men violates the natural law. Before you start flaming me as a anti-catholic protestant know that I am a deist.

71 posted on 02/12/2011 7:27:04 AM PST by armordog99
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Comment #72 Removed by Moderator

To: armordog99
Personally I think celibacy for men violates the natural law.

However both Jesus and Paul commended (but didn't command) it.

73 posted on 02/12/2011 7:42:30 AM PST by circlecity
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To: metmom
For those who would blame the messenger or Vatican II I would refer them to Peter Damian's Book of Gomorrah.

It's subject matter was sodomy (in its broadest definition) amongst the Catholic priests. That such is hardly a recent phenomenon is the fact that this book was finished in about 1049.

More on the book and its contents can be found online.

74 posted on 02/12/2011 8:38:06 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: circlecity

Understood. I am deist however and do not believe the bible is the infallible word of god. I do believe there was a creator and that with human reason we can discern the natural order, or law, that he put in motion. Celibacy is the antithesis to propagating the species. Propagating the species is the natural order of life.


75 posted on 02/12/2011 8:51:47 AM PST by armordog99
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To: Puddleglum
Quoted to illustrate the level of imbecility these discussions sink to.

Really...How many of the molested boys were altar boys, or former altar boys??? What is the percentage of molesting priests who were former altar boys???

Could your religion not exist without the office or function of altar boys???

Why is your religion so against altar girls???

Don't be shy, speak up...

76 posted on 02/12/2011 9:06:18 AM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: armordog99
"I do believe there was a creator and that with human reason we can discern the natural order, or law, that he put in motion."

To what purpose? "Natural Order" connotes design and design implies purpose. What was your Diety's purpose in his creation?

77 posted on 02/12/2011 9:06:37 AM PST by circlecity
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To: count-your-change

“So let it be certain and evident to all that we are in agreement with everything your book contains, opposed as it is like water to the fire of the devil,” the Pope continues. “Therefore, lest the wantonness of this foul impurity be allowed to spread unpunished, it must be repelled by proper repressive action of apostolic severity, and yet some moderation must be placed on its harshness,” he states. [61] Next, Pope Leo IX gives a detailed explanation of the Holy See’s authoritative ruling on the matter.

In light of divine mercy, the Holy Father commands, without contradiction, that those who, of their own free will, have practiced solitary or mutual masturbation or defiled themselves by interfemoral coitus, but who have not done so for any length of time, nor with many others, shall retain their status, after having “curbed their desires” and “atoned for their infamous deeds with proper repentance”. [62]
However, the Holy See removes all hope for retaining their clerical status from those who alone or with others for a long time, or even a short period with many, “have defiled themselves by either of the two kinds of filthiness which you have described, or, which is horrible to hear or speak of, have sunk to the level of anal intercourse.” [63]


78 posted on 02/12/2011 9:29:03 AM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: circlecity

Unknown. Perhaps we will find out after we die.


79 posted on 02/12/2011 9:48:03 AM PST by armordog99
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To: lastchance
Unfortunately young men in seminary like too many students in uni or college have the notion that if a person is a teacher or has some other stamp of expertise they must be right and not open to challenge.

Much of the problem lies in the attitude of the professors and teachers, and it's not a seminary only problem.

Many university professors are so full of themselves that they will not take ANY challenge to their authority. They reinforce that image of themselves and to challenge them is to risk failing the course and having to repeat it.

There was a college prof here on FR who was AGHAST once when he heard that some student in another FReeper's class dared to challenge the prof. I thought *Wow, he must be a real treat to take a class from*.

You learn very quickly in college to figure out what the prof wants to hear and spit it back to him.

80 posted on 02/12/2011 11:30:18 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: armordog99; RocketRoland

Welcome to FR, RR.

What country are you from?

I see no state flag flying there on your homepage.

FWIW, While we’re not perfect, America is far from the most corrupt nation on the planet. If you believe that, you’ve been swallowing too much kool aid.

But your America hating bile isn’t going to fly on FR.


81 posted on 02/12/2011 11:33:24 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: circlecity
"It seems that this practice of molesting boys is the life-blood of the Catholic hierarchy...It’s recruitment activity...How else could they get enough young men who have sworn off women to come into the single-male priesthood???"

And the above isn't a bit harsh?

Like it or not, the world knows the hierarchy of the Catholic Church as Christians. Apparently, not too many people care whether or not someone is guilty because they believe that Christ would permit the only Christian Church the world knew for fifteen hundred plus years to thrive on the molesting of little boys the whole time. They must because the accusation is unworthy of comment.

Now there’s a wonderful testament to the power of the Lord. He can't seem to do anything about the largest Christian Church on earth and hasn't been able to do anything for two thousand plus years. Excuse me, I mean for fifteen hundred years he was incapable of doing anything. Five hundred years ago there was a split that generated thousands of different churches in accordance with Christ praying that His church be as one, and that's what he did about it. I gotcha. Jim Jones, David Koresh, and fifty thousand like him in this country alone, is what He did about it after only fifteen centuries.

It's no wonder that more people are atheist and agnostic these days and many fall away from the Faith. It's not a sign of the looming great escape, it's proof that huge numbers of those who claim to be defending the faith don't even know which spirit is leading them in their efforts. Spreading clearly anti-Christ propaganda is sport to a lot of folks who may or may not even realize what they're doing. There's going to be a forest of folks hoisted on their on petard sometime soon and they won't be able to understand how the Lord could let it happen to them.

Regards

82 posted on 02/12/2011 11:47:44 AM PST by Rashputin (Barry is totally insane and being kept medicated and on golf courses to hide the fact)
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To: Iscool
Those who want queers leaders in the boyscouts are against queers leading your altar boys in your religion??? I doubt it...

Again, you don't grasp the depth of the depravity going on. Those who want queer leaders in the boyscouts use the disgraceful acts of the homosexual abusers in the priesthood to tar the good priests, bishops and faithful Catholics. They are in an all-out war against them and Alinsky-ite tactics are fully in play here.

Ultimately, they are trying to get bishops, priests and other Church leaders to back down from their very public positions against homosexuality. If they ever do this (God forbid), the media drumbeat of accusations will end. Count on it.

Think about it--there are open homosexual bishops and priests in the Anglican Church. Do you honestly think that sex abuse doesn't go on there? Or is it possible that the media covers up for them because they are "gay friendly"?
83 posted on 02/12/2011 11:52:00 AM PST by Antoninus (The slogan for the 2012 election: Better a known enemy than a false friend. Say no to Romney.)
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To: RocketRoland

Your comment would imply that gay judges would then go easier on gay priests.

Is that what you see happening?


84 posted on 02/12/2011 12:01:42 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: sayuncledave

The words of those documents condemn the church behind them and those who uphold that church.

Read the documents. Become informed.


85 posted on 02/12/2011 12:03:08 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: metmom
THE BOY SCOUTS have been doing a better job of protecting their boys than the Catholic church has. See? It can be done. What an indictment against the Catholic church.

Not at all. The Scouts have exactly the same problem: Scouting sex abuse cases

Given this, will you now tar and slander every boy scout, scout leader, and the institution as a whole? I won't.

The Boy Scouts of America are under exactly the same pressure as the Catholic Church to be "homosexual friendly". If you have been following the situation in Philadelphia, where the city government is attempting to force them to accept homosexuals, you would know that.

Both the Catholic Church and the Scouts are resisting but both are also huge and made up of fallible men who are subject to weakness, foolishness, and sin. Rather than attacking us, you should be encouraging us to keep up the good fight against the homosexuals in clerical roles and have the awareness to recognize who the true Enemy is in this fight.
86 posted on 02/12/2011 12:05:03 PM PST by Antoninus (The slogan for the 2012 election: Better a known enemy than a false friend. Say no to Romney.)
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To: Sto Zvirat
The Roman Catholic church destroyed so many lives by rape and by covering up and by accusing victims.

I left the church (and all religions) in disgust years ago. I will trust logic, reason and intellect over the fables and stories of religion.

Sadly, your comment is typical of those who have been shown the error of Rome.

I can only encourage you to return to the Bible and read it. God willing, you'll find the comfort and assurance Rome kept from you.

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." -- Matthew 11:28

87 posted on 02/12/2011 12:16:26 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Iscool
It seems that this practice of molesting boys is the life-blood of the Catholic hierarchy...It’s recruitment activity...How else could they get enough young men who have sworn off women to come into the single-male priesthood???

And what is it with ‘altar-boys’...Why does that group exist??? Is that where young boys are groomed and weeded out for their journey into the deeper secrets of the priesthood???

All good questions.

What parent would turn their young sons over to these people? Blindness can be deadly.

88 posted on 02/12/2011 12:18:25 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: boatbums; metmom
Amen to your post.

Yes, vengeance belongs to the Lord. But His saints are called to discern and judge sin from righteousness in this world now.

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" -- 1 Corinthians 6:2

May God forgive those who don't discern lies from truth.

89 posted on 02/12/2011 12:27:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: MarMema
While pedophilia is rampant in the world today, there is no place on earth where pederasts are protected as much as they are in Rome.

Rome elevates them, applauds them, rewards them.

They're who Rome is.

Priests are "another Christ." An "alter Christus."

We shouldn't be surprised men who believe such outright blasphemy are thoroughly corrupt.

90 posted on 02/12/2011 12:32:39 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Antoninus
instead of giving Catholics credit for the work we are doing to get rid of the homosexual molesters among our priests

Credit? The problem only continues to grow.

It's who Rome is.

sucker-punch

lol. Ah, yes. All information not vetted by Rome is a lie.

Wake up, Roman Catholics. Your children are being destroyed, physically, mentally and spiritually.

"DELIVER US FROM EVIL"

91 posted on 02/12/2011 12:36:48 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: TheDingoAteMyBaby
Being childless vs. having a family is a factor in attitudes towards protecting children.

That is very true.

We protect what we possess. That doesn't explain, however, the many Roman Catholic parents who turn a blind eye to this treachery in their own church where their own children are clearly at risk.

92 posted on 02/12/2011 12:44:07 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
And yet, we still love all of you no matter how much you hate and despise us, join together with the enemies of all Christians, and help them spread slander about us.

This is the hardest part of Christianity--loving those who tell lies about you--even in movie form.

You know about the kinds of movies that get recognized for Academy Awards. For Heaven's sake, Michael Moore wins them. Again, siding with those who hate ALL of us because they attack Catholics will not save you in the long run.

If you want to know the real truth, read this:


93 posted on 02/12/2011 12:46:27 PM PST by Antoninus (The slogan for the 2012 election: Better a known enemy than a false friend. Say no to Romney.)
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To: marshmallow

This has nothing to do with me (thank God.)

Read the documents. It’s all there.


94 posted on 02/12/2011 12:47:00 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Eva
When I was in high school, in the sixties, the Catholic priest at St. Phillips (Phila. suburbs) molested the acolyte class after getting them drunk on communion wine. I guess the boy who told me about it thought he would shock me. My father was the desk sergeant at the police station and the parents had made a deal with the church to not press charges and the church would put the priest in rehab somewhere out west.

Years later, I confirmed the incident with my mother. It happened.

Thanks for that example of what happens and is happening all across the country.

Wonder where that priest ended up?

A bishop, perhaps.

95 posted on 02/12/2011 12:49:42 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Petrosius

yadayadayada

The Vatican’s own words betray your weak defense of the indefensible.


96 posted on 02/12/2011 12:53:39 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Antoninus; Eva

~~”You’ll note that these are still accusations, not convictions. Talk to me when the actually convict somebody.”~~

See post 40...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2672486/posts?page=40#40


97 posted on 02/12/2011 12:55:38 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Antoninus
And yet, we still love all of you no matter how much you hate and despise us, join together with the enemies of all Christians, and help them spread slander about us.

Calm down. Step away from the keyboard. No one "hates you." No one is "joining with your enemies." No one is "slandering" you, since "slander" implies untruths.

The fact Rome is riddled with pederasts is not conjecture, but fact.

And it has been for centuries.

"Liberals" may have infiltrated your church, but they join the fascists who've always been there in one big scary stew of antiScriptural practices, beliefs and behaviors.

98 posted on 02/12/2011 1:06:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Antoninus
Think about this. We Catholics have been under attack for the scandalous behavior of some of our priests. To our dismay, the purveyors of this information are propaganda rag instruments of Satan like the NY Times and the Boston Globe. Nonetheless, we have made use of this information and are endeavoring to rid the priesthood of these offenders

Well, I am a new Catholic and, since I was raised with a protestant sensibility and I did not experience a childhood filled with reverence for the clergy, I have a few observations:

1) The Church contains all truth, and, as such, is holy and indefectible.

2) There is a longstanding homosexual subculture among the clergy in Western Europe and the United States (at least). The men who belong to, or are sympathetic to, this subculture are not being reached quickly or effectively by the criminal process, and, as long as they remain in place, they continue to protect each other and cause enormous harm.

3) The extirpation of this evil, while to some extent the job of the civil power, is much, much more so the responsibility of the Church.

4) The Church, for reasons which must seem cogent to the men of our time charged with shepherding her forward, is not doing a very good job at exposing these criminals, nor is she presenting a coherent theological accounting of their sins and the consequences thereof.

Defensiveness on the part of Catholics is understandable, in a human sense. Enemies of the Church are wielding the scandals like a club, and the desire to deflect their blows is only natural. But this natural defensiveness is both obstructing the complete removal of what the Holy Father correctly calls "filth" infesting the priesthood, and is relocating responsibility for avoiding further harm onto small children through diocesan "safety" programs, when the only safety program that needs doing is the removal from the priesthood and the episcopate of all sexually active homosexuals who desire relations with young men and boys, the identities of whom are surely known widely throughout the entire institution.

99 posted on 02/12/2011 1:17:36 PM PST by Jim Noble (Reelect Palin 2016)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Dr. E, in spite of working two jobs, having five kids, I am somewhat well read. That includes about the Church. You attempted to misrepresent to me. That, I suppose, is okay, since, in real life, we do not know each other, and you feel no guilt regarding that. Fair enough, that’s on your head, not mine. I have a strong belief I will not deny, nor defy. If you and I never agree or share kind words, I will still never lie to you. That’s on my head, not yours. I believe in Hell as well as Heaven, and I know where I want to be when He judges me.

If the people, religious or not, are involved in what has been charged, and are in fact found guilty, then I share the desire for their punishment. If they’re found innocent, unless mistried, I cannot condemn them. In this country, we all are to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. My comments came solely based upon your words, not the case in process. I will wait for the verdict.

On a slightly different note, dear Dr. E, in my admittedly not-terribly-eloquent way, I am one of those who uphold the Church. Some of the people in it aren’t perfect. But Jesus is. I’m happy with that. Actually, make that filled with joy.


100 posted on 02/12/2011 1:26:06 PM PST by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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