Skip to comments.“What if We Said, ‘Wait’?” Vatican Won’t [Catholic Caucus]
Posted on 03/07/2011 6:16:36 AM PST by marshmallow
A prominent Catholic pastor in Seattle is letting go of his campaign against a new Latinized translation of the church liturgy, but not his convictions in starting it.
It is the people who will have the last word on the new missal once it is introduced, Fr. Michael Ryan, pastor of St. James Cathedral, said in a Sunday morning homily.
Noting that the missal will be introduced later this year, Ryan added: This is neither the time nor the place for arguing the matter. He pledged to work toward harmonious introduction of the new language into the cathedrals worship.
Ryan caused a national stir among Catholic priests, bishops and scholars, when he wrote a critical 2009 article for the Jesuit magazine America.
He launched a campaign entitled What if we said Wait? aimed at taking a second look involving the laity at liturgical handiwork of the Vaticans powerful, insular Congregation for Divine Worship.
The new translations demonstrate that precise translation of Latin texts into English can result in language that is awkward, arcane, clumsy and in many cases far removed from the way people speak, Ryan wrote in America.
The texts will have Catholics using such phrases as consubstantial with the Father, serene and kindly countenance, Joseph, spouse of the same virgin, and send down your spirit like the dewfall.
Such language, Ryan told his congregation Sunday, he felt to be a step away from the spirit of the Second Vatican Council on the renewal of the liturgy, and the Councils stress on an enhanced decision-making role for the worlds bishops.
Ryan shared with his congregation what has been a struggle with the new language in the light of Jesus call in the gospel for trust. It was a theme of Sundays reading from the St. Matthew Gospel.
(Excerpt) Read more at blog.seattlepi.com ...
Ahhhaaa.......I knew it had to be in here somewhere! The oft quoted, never defined and totally intangible "spirit" (small "s") of Vatican II.
The tired old cliche makes one of its increasingly rare appearances.
Thank you Pope Benedict XVI for all the healing! This is one more affirmation of your work to clean Her up.
Um, is not Father Ryan fighting a losing battle?
These are the same folks who cried “Wait” in 1970, as the new Mass was being rushed into use, with VERY BAD translations. More bad translations were introduced over time, with less fanfare, and no waiting. Hypocrites.
Yeah! What happened to the vow of obedience.
The priest obeys the Bishop.
The bishop obeys the Archbishop.
The Archbishop obeys the Cardinal )if there is one in that area — sometimes the Archbishop and the Cardinal are one and the same person.)
The Cardinal (or Archbishop) obeys the Pope.
And so it goes.
It will be very interesting in the next couple of months what will be happening in some parts of the Church around the USA, in regards to priests like Father Ryan who were very critical of the recent changes to parts of the mass, changes that were needed in order to bring much more better unity to the wording of the words of the mass. Read online this weekend that what was used was suposed to be temporary, and that has been a 35 year temporary.
It disturbs me that they would have trouble with consubtantial considering how key this work was at the first Nicene Council. The present language—”one in being with the Father” is easy to say, I have yet to figure out what idea it is supposed to express.
Yep, it makes me wonder too, did Father Ryan forget that vow?
Of course, it’s all about the 60s ideology, not the language itself. Our Spanish liturgy has very fine vocabulary, and I don’t hear our congregation - some of whom cannot even read, in any language - complaining that they don’t get it. Our deacon talks about elevated theological concepts, as well as daily life, in his homilies. The charismatic prayer group studies the Bible in depth.
Father Whatsis is showing no respect for his congregation at all.
The Church was infiltrated by secularists and communists. Imho.
consubstantial English lesson for Father Ryan with some Latin background.
con — in Latin means with
substantial — means substance
Thus constubstantial means with the substance (to me — this is a subtlety to the Trinity — one in being with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit — one in substance.) Don’t know if my personal opinion is right there, but I do know the definition above it is correct.
My priest did a double take on me when I uttered those words
con = with
substantial = substance.
His words were, “Wow, she knows what she’s talking about here!”
I think is is the translation of homoousios, which was a philosophic term that was, so to speak,” baptized” by the Council of Nicaea by being given a Christian “twist.”
The product of a progressive education ? Mortimer Adler advises us to teach children big words, so they will appeciate the value of words. I am sure you have run into precocious children who LOVE big words. I recallbeing in the Atlantic airport a few years ago and listening with some astonishment this little 2-year old girls telling us she has just come from “Sac-ra-men-to,” and other such.
I have a houseful of children who love big words. #3 son wore out the unabridged dictionary. If I got up in the middle of the night to let the cat in, he’d be crouched in the downstairs bathroom with the FReepin unabridged.
But as to the words of the liturgy, I think people just come to feel comfortable with what they’ve heard for years, even if it includes difficult vocabulary. I remember learning hymns as a girl, and loving phrases like “Creator of the rolling spheres, ineffably sublime.” Even if you don’t quite know what “ineffably” is, you still know it’s something you only say about God, and that’s worth a lot.
Give me one conservative who is bucking against this and I might consider their beef. Every complaint so far that I’ve seen has been from one direction as far as I can tell...
Metropolitan archbishops (not all archbishops are metropolitans) have a sort of vague oversight responsibility over the dioceses within their jurisdiction, called "suffragan sees". But it's not a direct line of command.
I knew that when I posted it....but the words were already typed and I had already hit post.
Thanks for the clarification.