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Hundreds (600) of Anglicans start move to Catholic church on Ash Wednesday
Winnipeg Free Press ^ | March 9, 2011 | Robert Barr

Posted on 03/09/2011 1:30:07 PM PST by NYer

LONDON - Hundreds of disaffected Anglicans left the Church of England to become Roman Catholics on Ash Wednesday, the Christian day of penance.

The day set by the church to welcome converts wishing to join the Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, a unique grouping created by Pope Benedict XVI for Anglicans left feeling isolated since the Church of England decided in 1992 to ordain women as priests.

Tensions have grown further as the governing General Synod moves to allow women to become bishops while denying special structures to protect the sensitivities of the objectors.

"I believe that synod is trying to make the church conform to the culture rather than being faithful to new life found in Jesus Christ," the Rev. David Lashbrooke said in his farewell sermon at St. Marychurch in Torquay, southwestern England.

Those joining the ordinariate will be allowed to keep some of their customs and liturgy, though they won't be allowed to receive communion until they are confirmed shortly before Easter. Their priests can be ordained to the Catholic priesthood even if they are married.

Church officials haven't released numbers, but a Catholic magazine, The Tablet, has reported that about 20 priests and 600 lay people around England are making the move. Five former bishops have already gone over.

"Of more than 22,000 ordained Church of England clergy in total, about two dozen would appear to have decided to join the ordinariate at this time," said Howard Dobson, spokesman for the Archbishops' Council.

"It is impossible to obtain an accurate figure of lay numbers as no one needs to register their leaving the C of E," Dobson said. The church claims 1.7 million active members.

In the Catholic diocese of Brentwood, covering east London and suburban Essex County, 241 adults and children, including seven priests, have indicated they will be moving from the Church of England, said diocesan press officer Mary Huntington.

The program set by the Catholic Church for the ordinariate is built around the season of Lent leading up to Easter, when new members normally prepare for confirmation, and Pentecost 50 days after Easter when former Anglican priests will be ordained into their new church.

The Rev. Simon Chinery, a curate or assistant priest at two Anglican churches in Plymouth, said he felt "a sense of peace, a sense of excitement and some nervousness" as he prepared for the Ash Wednesday service at a Catholic church.

In his farewell to his old churches on Sunday, Chinery noted he wasn't the first priest from the parish to become a Catholic but that Benedict had made it easier.

"Whereas previously ex-Anglicans were stealthily admitted to the Catholic church through a side entrance, this time the front door has been thrown open and the welcome mat laid out," he said.

"I deeply love the Church of England, it's a hard decision to leave it behind," he said Wednesday, adding that he would particularly miss the church's rich musical heritage.

The Rev. Ed Tomlinson was leaving St. Barnabas Church in Tunbridge Wells, southeast England, and felt relief as he took about 70 parishioners with him into the Catholic Church.

"I spent so many years battling to defend the faith from within the Church of England, which is crazy, and that's taken all my energy away from visiting the sick, preaching the good news and helping people," Tomlinson said in an interview with British Broadcasting Corp. radio.

A smaller group remains committed to St. Barnabas and the Church of England, Tomlinson added, "and they have my prayers and good wishes."

While some move, others are still weighing their options.

Rev. John Corbyn of St. Mary Magdalene Church in Harlow, 25 miles (40 kms) northeast of London, said his group may be part of a second wave to migrants.

"It's not just one day and that's it," Corbyn said. "It's not a closing down sale."


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: anglican; coe
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1 posted on 03/09/2011 1:30:12 PM PST by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 03/09/2011 1:30:44 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: NYer

I’ve not gone to the C of E ever since they took the liberal position of homosexuality.

If they want to include homosexuals and then ignore what is nature and Gods word then they lose me.

Seems inclusive means ignore the majority and appease the very small minority.

Have been thinking of going to a Catholic church, we’ll see.


3 posted on 03/09/2011 1:50:31 PM PST by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: NYer; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; ...

In other news, millions of disaffected Catholics try to get forgiveness in an unbiblical manner. Headquarters, in desparate need of the money, power, and new bathrobes, decides not to mention this grave error.


4 posted on 03/09/2011 1:51:18 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

lol


5 posted on 03/09/2011 1:57:43 PM PST by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: Dutchboy88; Dr. Eckleburg; Forest Keeper; Gamecock; RnMomof7; HarleyD; fish hawk; Alex Murphy; ...

You ever cross the Tiber? I once did, on a bus.

The Tiber is a muddy, turbulent cesspoll of a river.

Ever been to Lake Geneva? I’ve been there.

Cool, calm and refreshing.

Fitting, isn’t it?


6 posted on 03/09/2011 1:58:18 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: Dutchboy88

Abandoning Jesus for the 700 Saints Club seems a bit of an overkill.


7 posted on 03/09/2011 1:58:36 PM PST by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Happiness)
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To: All

cesspoll=cesspool


8 posted on 03/09/2011 1:59:14 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: Gamecock
"You ever cross the Tiber? I once did, on a bus."

That is just fantastic! No bridge...just a bus. Probably drove on top of the floating garbage. I've seen Lake Geneva on a postcard and it certainly looks a lot cleaner. And, yes, fitting. Deep, cool, pure. No additives.

9 posted on 03/09/2011 2:05:37 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: GeronL
"Abandoning Jesus for the 700 Saints Club seems a bit of an overkill."

Definitely.

10 posted on 03/09/2011 2:08:56 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Gamecock

You Calvinistas are a laugh riot.


11 posted on 03/09/2011 2:20:20 PM PST by elcid1970 ("Destroy Mecca and you kill Allah!")
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To: elcid1970

You wanna see pictures?


12 posted on 03/09/2011 2:21:49 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: Dutchboy88
And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

Not seeing the problem with the Catholic sacrament of reconciliation here. Christ gives His Church the authority to forgive sins.

How do you get your sins forgiven? Do you shyly admit Divine sinlessness? I hope not.

Do you boldly declare that Christ will forgive your sins whether you repent of them or not? I hope not!

Rather: I hope and trust that when you have sinned you go to Christ - as best you can - and repent.

So it is with the Church, which is Christ's body. We go to His body, where He is truly present. We confess our sins and repent of them, and we resolve not to sin again. And Christ forgives us. This is a simply tremendous thing!

Trust in Christ! Trust in the Divine Mercy! Don't be a stranger!

13 posted on 03/09/2011 2:24:47 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: agere_contra; Dutchboy88
"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT IMPUTING their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Cor. 5:19.

Read 2 Cor. 5:14-21 for a complete understanding of reconciliation.

It says nothing about a priest being able to remit or retain sins. It says nothing about retaining sins at all. It says nothing about "The Church" acting in any way between man and God.

14 posted on 03/09/2011 2:34:08 PM PST by smvoice (The Cross was NOT God's Plan B.)
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To: agere_contra
"Not seeing the problem with the Catholic sacrament of reconciliation here. Christ gives His Church the authority to forgive sins."

The grave error the Roman Catholic Church makes is assuming that Jesus is speaking to them. Tragically, they do not read the rest of the story.

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed." See if you can find this in the "movie".

Predestined to believe? Appears so.

15 posted on 03/09/2011 2:36:11 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: smvoice
"It says nothing about a priest being able to remit or retain sins. It says nothing about retaining sins at all. It says nothing about "The Church" acting in any way between man and God."

Absolutely.

16 posted on 03/09/2011 2:39:39 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: manc

I will be praying for you


17 posted on 03/09/2011 2:41:10 PM PST by surroundedbyblue
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To: Dutchboy88

You (collective you) just can’t help yourself can you? Truly it is good that you believe in forensic justification.


18 posted on 03/09/2011 2:42:32 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Dutchboy88
You believe in predestination?

Seriously? Predestination?

How can you then even believe in the concept of Sin? You don't even believe in Free Will! Whether you go to heaven or not has nothing whatever to do with you!

Well that must take the pressure off, I guess. Sin as much as you like, its all God's doing, right?

Predestination ranks alongside the Mohammedan concept of co-existing contradictory Truths, and the Skeptic concept that there is no such thing as objective Reality as one of the three or four most absurd pieces of grade A tripe ever believed by Man.

Sorry for the immoderate - indeed, offensive - hilarity, but I am just so astonished to find people still believe in this! Seriously, it's like finding people who think that metal is a kind of fruit. And here on FR too!

Man, your meetings must be a hoot.

19 posted on 03/09/2011 2:59:38 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: lastchance
"You (collective you) just can’t help yourself can you? Truly it is good that you believe in forensic justification."

You are absolutely correct, sir. Coming to the realization that I cannot help myself is one of the greatest graces that God has granted me in, lo, these many years. He was kind enough to let me see what all those whom He has called realize, that we want to "...be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith."

20 posted on 03/09/2011 3:02:20 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

So ... I am honestly trying to understand here. When you have sinned, do you try to stop sinning? Or do you just carry right on?


21 posted on 03/09/2011 3:05:09 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: Gamecock

So, how is the first day of lent going for you?


22 posted on 03/09/2011 3:08:39 PM PST by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: Dutchboy88

That would be M’am.

I would weep should I ever come to believe I was a dunghill covered with snow.


23 posted on 03/09/2011 3:15:23 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: lastchance
"That would be M’am."

My apologies. Bad assumption.

"I would weep should I ever come to believe I was a dunghill covered with snow."

Me too.

24 posted on 03/09/2011 3:19:39 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: smvoice
It says nothing about a priest being able to remit or retain sins.

Do you really think Paul means to have you throw away the clear words of Jesus himself in John 20:22? Who is the "disciple," and who is the "master"? Was Paul crucified for you?

25 posted on 03/09/2011 3:19:58 PM PST by Campion
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To: NYer

Welcome Home Brothers And Sisters!


26 posted on 03/09/2011 3:20:05 PM PST by Biggirl ("The Best Of Times, The Worse Of Times", Charles Dickens)
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To: Dutchboy88
The grave error the Roman Catholic Church makes is assuming that Jesus is speaking to them.

Yes, we have this strange idea that Christians ought to follow the teachings of Jesus.

27 posted on 03/09/2011 3:25:58 PM PST by Campion
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To: Celtic Cross; Dutchboy88; RnMomof7; Dr. Eckleburg; Alex Murphy; metmom; Quix

Quite amusing, thanks for asking. I love listening to all the Roman Catholics that work here brag about what they are giving up for Lent.

It’s like they are in a contest to see who is the most pious.


28 posted on 03/09/2011 3:31:33 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: Gamecock

I was unaware that calvinists don’t hold with lent. Sorry.


29 posted on 03/09/2011 3:33:26 PM PST by Celtic Cross (Some minds are like cement; thoroughly mixed up and permanently set...)
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To: agere_contra
"So ... I am honestly trying to understand here. When you have sinned, do you try to stop sinning? Or do you just carry right on?"

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live (wallow) in it?" A great mentor of mine wrote those words.

30 posted on 03/09/2011 3:33:47 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Campion
"Yes, we have this strange idea that Christians ought to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Then I suggest you step out of the boat and start walking on the waves...it's right there in black and white, Matt. 14:29.

31 posted on 03/09/2011 3:37:27 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: NYer; AnAmericanMother

Welcome home everyone! Bring the great hymns from your Book of Common Prayer, please.


32 posted on 03/09/2011 3:37:42 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: agere_contra
"You believe in predestination? Seriously? Predestination?"

Actually, I simply believe the Scriptures. Acts 4:28, Rom. 8:29, I Cor 2:7, Eph. 1:5, Eph. 1:11. You might want to read the Book. It tells a terrific story that Rome has missed.

33 posted on 03/09/2011 3:42:08 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: NYer

“Whereas previously ex-Anglicans were stealthily admitted to the Catholic church through a side entrance, this time the front door has been thrown open and the welcome mat laid out,” he said.

I was one of them! I disagree entirely! I had an amazing time at my confirmation. So many of my friends came. Back door? Hardly!


34 posted on 03/09/2011 3:47:17 PM PST by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: Dutchboy88

Great commission?


35 posted on 03/09/2011 3:48:54 PM PST by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: NYer

Welcome to each and every one of them! Wait until they live the riches of the Church; there’s nothing like it!


36 posted on 03/09/2011 3:51:48 PM PST by Melian ( See Matt 7: 21 and 1 John 2: 3-6)
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To: Gamecock

Your Catholic colleagues evidently believe they have free will. It sounds like they believe they can deny themselves, take up their cross and follow God, cooperating with God’s grace to become more like what He intends them to be.

No-one should ever brag about penance. They should never mention it. But they are absolutely right to exercise their God-given wills.

We must pick up our Cross and follow Christ. We must deny our own selfish urges in God’s name and for God’s purposes. “He that shall lose his life, shall save it.” This Lenten custom of giving up creature comforts is a salutary step towards that.

We must however not tell anyone what we give up. That could easily become something like a Pharisaical practice. Your work colleagues should be more careful.


37 posted on 03/09/2011 3:53:28 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: NYer
There are two versions of religion: the religion of Divine Accomplishment and the religion of human achievement.

These "converts" to Roman Catholicism have moved from the first to the second. That is unfortunate!

38 posted on 03/09/2011 3:57:06 PM PST by LiteKeeper ("Psalm 109:8")
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To: smvoice; agere_contra; Dutchboy88
Read 2 Cor. 5:14-21 for a complete understanding of reconciliation.

It says nothing about a priest being able to remit or retain sins. It says nothing about retaining sins at all. It says nothing about "The Church" acting in any way between man and God.

On the contrary. In 2 Cor. 5:18, the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance. And the sacrament comes from the Book of John

In John 20:21, before He grants the Apostles the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to them, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.

In the next verse, John 20:22, the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.

Then, in John 20:23, Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Your bible also contains the Book of John, doesn't it?

39 posted on 03/09/2011 3:59:08 PM PST by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: Dutchboy88
Then I suggest you step out of the boat and start walking on the waves

Seriously, first day of Lent and you're paraphrasing Satan? Trying to get others to tempt God?

Ooh! Why don't you tell him to cast himself from a high precipice? After all, God will send angels lest he dash his foot against a stone?

40 posted on 03/09/2011 3:59:54 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: agere_contra

Why should anyone be surprised to see someone who does not agree with Lent attempting to discourage people who do?

This is *exactly* what Christ warned us about the yeast in the dough.


41 posted on 03/09/2011 4:05:17 PM PST by BenKenobi (Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong. - Silent Cal)
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To: Dutchboy88
What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live (wallow) in it?

This is heartening. So, you make a conscious act of the will to avoid sin - or at the very least to sin less frequently or less grievously - with God's help.

Because this is right. This is the way to go. But it is not Predestination. When we consciously try to avoid sin, we choose. We make an act of the will. We practically do nothing else - God does all the work - but we decide to change. Or we don't. God does not choose for us.

Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster

This is the way we engage with God. He makes it very simple and the choices could not be more stark and obvious. But it is up to us. We can indeed finally reject Him.

42 posted on 03/09/2011 4:21:31 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: agere_contra

***We must however not tell anyone what we give up.***

Indeed

And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
— Matthew 6:16-18


43 posted on 03/09/2011 4:39:49 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: BenKenobi
"Great commission?"

Can't find those words in the Scriptures. However, if you mean, do I explain the Gospel to others I encounter? I am doing that right this minute.

44 posted on 03/09/2011 4:41:48 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: NYer
"Your bible also contains the Book of John, doesn't it?"

I certainly hope so. But, I was unaware that Rome was one of the Apostles. Last I checked, there were twelve, including Judas, then one more, Matthias, then Paul. Hmmm. No Rome.

John includes a gem, however, in chap. 6 vss. 44 & 65. For some reason, Rome seems to have misunderstood yet another passage.

45 posted on 03/09/2011 4:49:37 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: agere_contra
"Because this is right. This is the way to go. But it is not Predestination. When we consciously try to avoid sin, we choose. We make an act of the will. We practically do nothing else - God does all the work - but we decide to change. Or we don't. God does not choose for us."

Tragically, you have supplied a great deal of human psychology/philosophy to the Scriptures. "Work out your own salvation, for it is God who is at work in you, both to will (choose) and to work (accomplish) for His good pleasure." Hmmm. Evidently, Paul does not agree with you.

46 posted on 03/09/2011 4:58:52 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: agere_contra
"Seriously, first day of Lent and you're paraphrasing Satan? Trying to get others to tempt God?"

Peter certainly was not tempting God when he responded to Jesus, albeit a little tentatively. But, you said you followed the orders of Jesus and and I was simply reprinting one of His orders. Waiting...

47 posted on 03/09/2011 5:01:32 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

Waiting for what?

You want me to tell you to go jump in a lake?

You believe that Jesus commands us to jump in lakes?

You believe that if someone doesn’t jump in a lake on your say-so, they don’t believe in God?

Which is it?

Waiting ...


48 posted on 03/09/2011 5:05:40 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: Dutchboy88

Doesn’t your Bible have that passage?

“Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster.”

It’s in Deuteronomy. God gives us a choice.


49 posted on 03/09/2011 5:08:23 PM PST by agere_contra (Whenever a Liberal admits to something: he is covering up something far worse)
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To: agere_contra
"This is the way we engage with God. He makes it very simple and the choices could not be more stark and obvious. But it is up to us. We can indeed finally reject Him."

No, my FRiend, we cannot "finally reject" Him, if He has indeed laid hold us. That is the glory of the Gospel, the Good News of Jesus Christ, the true message of the Bible. "So then it does not depend upon the man who wills (chooses) or the man who runs (acts), but upon God."

Those appointed unto eternal life will believe...and they cannot stop Him from rendering their hearts anew. Jer. 31. Your words describe a humanistic gospel, one which the world would love to be true, but one which is not really another gospel, since there is no other.

50 posted on 03/09/2011 5:15:00 PM PST by Dutchboy88
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