Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Observing weakness with charity
Mormon Times ^ | 10 March 2011 | Dan Peterson

Posted on 03/10/2011 6:49:45 AM PST by T Minus Four

With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people. (No better quality of human is available.) "We have this treasure in earthen vessels," the apostle Paul said, referring to the gospel and its mortal ministers, "that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."

Although we obviously shouldn't be surprised at it, the church's human side is sometimes jarring and, if permitted, can cause disillusionment. It's urgently important, therefore, for our own sake, that we "clothe (our)selves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace" (Doctrine and Covenants 88:125). Failure to do so can be spiritually lethal.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged," Jesus taught, "and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matthew 7:2). Christians worldwide regularly pray, rather dangerously, that the Lord "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

Why is this dangerous? "If ye forgive men their trespasses," the Savior explained, "your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matthew 6:12, 14-15). And nobody is guiltless.

"Use every man after his desert," says Shakespeare's Hamlet, "and who should 'scape whipping?"

"My disciples, in days of old," the Lord says, "sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened" (Doctrine and Covenants 64:8).

In our dispensation, Thomas Marsh became so preoccupied with Joseph Smith's perceived imperfections that he forfeited his apostleship and was excommunicated in 1839. This wasn't because Joseph was perfect. "He has sinned," the Lord flatly declared. (Fortunately, my sins aren't announced in scripture.) But, adds the Lord, "he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin" (Doctrine and Covenants 64:7, 9).

Rebaptized in 1857, Marsh expressed regret for his nearly two decades outside the church. "I got a beam in my eye and thought I could discover a mote in Joseph's eye. … I was … completely darkened."

Contrast his attitude with that of the well-educated Lorenzo Snow, who boarded with the Smiths for a time:

"I can fellowship the President of the Church, (even) if he does not know everything I know. … I saw the … imperfections in (Joseph). … I thanked God that he would put upon a man who had those imperfections the power and authority he placed upon him … for I knew that I myself had weakness(es), and I thought there was a chance for me. … I thanked God that I saw those imperfections."

"I feel like shouting hallelujah, all the time," Joseph's close friend and disciple Brigham Young declared, "when I think that I ever knew Joseph Smith." Significantly, his dying words were "Joseph! Joseph! Joseph!"

Observing others' weaknesses, perhaps with sorrow, is very different from dwelling on them. Charity, the apostle Paul wrote, "rejoiceth not in iniquity." This surely applies to our fellow members, bishops, Relief Society presidents and stake presidents, and to the good but imperfect men who have been and are called to lead the church.

A year after leaving the American presidency, Theodore Roosevelt delivered a speech in Paris, titled "Citizenship in a Republic":

"It is not the critic who counts," he said, "not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other non-Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: blasphemy; christian; lds; mormon
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-82 next last

1 posted on 03/10/2011 6:49:48 AM PST by T Minus Four
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

Your made up title is unnecessarily provocative. I’d ask the moderator to change it if I were you.


2 posted on 03/10/2011 6:53:56 AM PST by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA

I intended it to be provocative. Aren’t you alarmed by the claim?


3 posted on 03/10/2011 6:54:57 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

It doesn’t alarm be but no good can come from it.


4 posted on 03/10/2011 6:56:50 AM PST by DManA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: DManA
Well, according to lds Jesus is a mormon. He has been dead baptized and his marriages have been recorded in their ancestry.
5 posted on 03/10/2011 6:58:03 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

I’m a little slow on the uptake for the moment...where’s the part where it implies (or says directly) that Jesus was a Mormon?


6 posted on 03/10/2011 6:58:26 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: DManA

Well, than go find something you believe in fighting for and do so. This is my hill.


7 posted on 03/10/2011 6:59:20 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
For people who claim in their articles of faith that the Bible is flawed they sure spend a lot of time quoting it to justify their blaspheming BoM.
8 posted on 03/10/2011 7:00:41 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Carpe Cerevisi
With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people

I was worried for a second - at least they didn't mean Joseph Smith.

9 posted on 03/10/2011 7:00:57 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DManA

The “Truth” is provocative?

LDS folk think Jesus was one of them.


10 posted on 03/10/2011 7:06:49 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

Daniel Peterson loves donuts....AND Joseph Smith was indeed a sinful man.


11 posted on 03/10/2011 7:17:14 AM PST by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA
The title is impossible as Jesus was a Jew and lived 2000 years before the Mormons came along. Why would I want to read an article form an uninformed alarmists?
12 posted on 03/10/2011 7:26:17 AM PST by mountainlion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: mountainlion
It is interesting as you point out. However, lds have dead baptized Jesus, sealed Him in marriage, recorded those marriages and to lds everyone is a Gentile.
13 posted on 03/10/2011 7:28:24 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Daniel Peterson loves donuts

Well, I suppose donuts do not violate the letter of the law of the Word of Wisdom, but perhaps the spirit.

Just goes to show you how a religion of laws becomes an exercise in doing the least that is required.

14 posted on 03/10/2011 7:34:12 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: svcw
That is about like me saying I reject you therefore you do not exist. You are saying that lsd is greater than Jesus is and that you can capture him with non Biblical beliefs and take whatever you want to build up an un Biblical religion. I accept Jesus not you.
15 posted on 03/10/2011 7:35:13 AM PST by mountainlion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

Everybody knows that Jesus was Catholic...duh..ble/sarc....magritte


16 posted on 03/10/2011 7:44:03 AM PST by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: mountainlion
ah no. I am not sure what your response has to do with my post. I was pointing out what lds teach, not what I believe.
It was Joseph Smith who said he was greater than Jesus. lds do not believe in the Biblical Jesus. They believe is a created Jesus.
I am just going with you thought I was defending lds, I was not. lds is blaspheme at its finest. lds is not God's Church. lds is build on lies.
satan lied to Eve - you to can be a god
satan lied to Joseph Smith - you to can be god
Joseph Smith lied to everyone
17 posted on 03/10/2011 7:52:01 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

I don’t appreciate the “tease” just to get someone to read the article. Nowhere in the article did the man say Jesus was Mormon. I think the mods should change the title too.

This is an affront to Christians, especially in this time of Lent.


18 posted on 03/10/2011 7:55:23 AM PST by fourdny2 (God Bless The USA and GWB)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: svcw
I did misunderstand. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ. That is my basic belief. I really do not an understanding of Mormons but I don't have a need to study them their beliefs.
19 posted on 03/10/2011 7:59:30 AM PST by mountainlion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: svcw
I did misunderstand. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ. That is my basic belief. I really do not an understanding of Mormons but I don't have a need to study them their beliefs.
20 posted on 03/10/2011 7:59:42 AM PST by mountainlion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
From the article: "With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people."

Mormon attitude of superiority in the very first sentence...however, what it really does is prove that the mormon Jesus is not the Jesus of Christianity.

The Christian Jesus is not, will never be and never has been a "member" of the mormon church.

FAIL, DCP


21 posted on 03/10/2011 8:02:39 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Examples of Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens at www.fairus.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: colorcountry
Daniel Peterson loves donuts.

I Luv Coffee With Mine

22 posted on 03/10/2011 8:10:54 AM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the Inman FReepers Meet July 23 Pray Jim Rob Can Make It)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

What a pleasant face ... and what a demonic religion! Touting the assertions of Lorenzo Snow tells us what we need to know of this man’s perspective. Poor ol’ Lorenzo, well educated as he may have been, proclaimed what has become known as ‘the couplet’, which is a blasphemy as old as the Garden of Eden. Mormonism has lots of blasphemies woven into the dogma of that religion, but the assertion that The God of Creation was once a man and had to earn the attributes of godhood is possibly the most destructive to the human soul. Perhaps that’s why satan tried to hint such a blasphemy to a woman who had walked with God! Now, so many generations removed from such intimate fellowship, satan just has some poor dupe put the blasphemous lie in the form of the Lorenzo Snow couplet: ‘As man is, god once was; as god is man may become.’


23 posted on 03/10/2011 8:11:08 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: fourdny2
This is an affront to Christians, especially in this time of Lent.

Blasphemy is indeed an affront to Christians. Every single day of our lives it is so. If I need to set aside special days to be more affronted than usual, I am not doing it right.

24 posted on 03/10/2011 8:13:32 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN

It’s the oldest lie in the book, literally. And so very easy to believe. It answers all of the deepest lusts and longings in the damaged human soul - sex, money and power.


25 posted on 03/10/2011 8:16:42 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: mountainlion
I really do not an understanding of Mormons but I don't have a need to study them their beliefs.

It's a very tangled web. Fascinating and repelling at once. But the people themselves are very decent, kind and compassionate. They are really terrific folks as a whole. And tragically deceived.

26 posted on 03/10/2011 8:21:15 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Utah Binger

LOVE the Manhattan Transfer!


27 posted on 03/10/2011 8:22:05 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39; All

With one striking exception, the LDS Church’s leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people.


Makes perfect sense. Since Jesus Christ leads the LDS Church he would be the leader and we all know he led a perfect life. At least I think we all know that. Perhaps someone disagrees, I don’t want to be accused of mind reading again.


Mormon Jesus is not the Jesus of Christianity? Sure he is. He is the Savior of the world. You know, the one in the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon. That’s him!

Is Jesus a “member” of the Mormon Church? If you consider the leader a member then sure. I’d say we are members of his Church though. Sounds more accurate.

Have a great day!


28 posted on 03/10/2011 8:29:56 AM PST by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
You know, the one in the Holy Bible and Book of Mormon.

Well, since your religion casts doubt on the Bible, and I as a believer of the Bible renounce your BOM as false, we're sort of at a standoff now, aren't we.

29 posted on 03/10/2011 8:44:45 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
Photobucket
30 posted on 03/10/2011 8:45:35 AM PST by dragonblustar (To tag or not to tag, that is the question.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
You are not really at a stand off.

Just sayin...

31 posted on 03/10/2011 8:49:15 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: ejonesie22

I know.


32 posted on 03/10/2011 8:52:44 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
I repeat: "The Christian Jesus is not, will never be and never has been a "member" of the mormon church.

Photobucket

33 posted on 03/10/2011 9:00:16 AM PST by greyfoxx39 (Examples of Serious Crimes of Illegal Aliens at www.fairus.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: fourdny2
"Nowhere in the article did the man say Jesus was Mormon."

The implication is quite clear...

The "article" starts off with...

"With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people..."

Who could that "exception" be? Who was not flawed? Why Jesus of course. The "exception" is part of "the LdS Church's leaders and members..." as penned by the author, so what is he implying? He's clearly implying that Jesus was/is a mormon.

Just what is the affront you're referring to? That the article was posted, or that mormons claim Jesus was/is mormon?

34 posted on 03/10/2011 9:02:19 AM PST by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Is Jesus a “member” of the Mormon Church? If you consider the leader a member then sure. I’d say we are members of his Church though.

And since you consider Satan to be Jesus's brother, which part of the Mormon Church does he control?

Peep stones or the special temple underwear?

35 posted on 03/10/2011 9:04:20 AM PST by dragonblustar (To tag or not to tag, that is the question.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
Lord "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

Lord; are we supposed to FORGIVE heresies as well?

False Teachings?

36 posted on 03/10/2011 10:04:07 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DManA
Your made up title is unnecessarily provocative.

OH?

THIS is the title --> Observing weakness with charity

THIS is a comment ON the title --> [Jesus was a MORMON!]


There IS a difference.

37 posted on 03/10/2011 10:06:59 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: mountainlion
Why would I want to read an article form an uninformed alarmists?

Yeah!

Let's wait for one from INFORMED alarmists!

38 posted on 03/10/2011 10:08:50 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
Well, I suppose donuts do not violate the letter of the law of the Word of Wisdom, but perhaps the spirit.

Ice tea doesn't either, or Coke® (Unless it's WARM, I guess.)

39 posted on 03/10/2011 10:10:05 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
Well, I suppose donuts do not violate the letter of the law of the Word of Wisdom, but perhaps the spirit.

Had a bath in BOOZE lately; FR MORMONs??

40 posted on 03/10/2011 10:10:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: magritte

When you gonna get a dog so HE can fight here?


41 posted on 03/10/2011 10:11:53 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: fourdny2
I don’t appreciate the “tease” just to get someone to read the article.

WE're not teasing!

There ARE 51,998 more just like US; waiting to pound on your front door!


42 posted on 03/10/2011 10:14:09 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: fourdny2
This is an affront to Christians,especially in this time of Lent. ALL of the time! --->
43 posted on 03/10/2011 10:16:01 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
"With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people."

Let's HEAR it for the ONE!!

44 posted on 03/10/2011 10:21:12 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Photobucket
45 posted on 03/10/2011 10:24:48 AM PST by dragonblustar (To tag or not to tag, that is the question.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39
I'm sorry. Here are the words...


1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed “that Prophet and Seer”—
Blessed to open the last dispensation;
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

(chorus)
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain;
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr,
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins;
Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame.

(chorus)
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain;
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


3. Great is his glory, and endless his Priesthood,
Ever and ever the keys he will hold;
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the Prophets of old.

(chorus)
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain;
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.


4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man;
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice;
Millions shall know “brother Joseph” again.

(chorus)
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain;
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

46 posted on 03/10/2011 10:28:30 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

[Jesus was a Mormon!]

I once heard someone say that Jesus was an Alien. This is no less ridiculous.


47 posted on 03/10/2011 10:29:52 AM PST by Grunthor (hcg diet, down 25 lbs in 3 weeks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

48 posted on 03/10/2011 10:36:27 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Elsie

49 posted on 03/10/2011 10:38:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

“I feel like shouting hallelujah, all the time,” Joseph’s close friend and disciple Brigham Young declared, “when I think that I ever knew Joseph Smith.” Significantly, his dying words were “Joseph! Joseph! Joseph!”

Of course. Without Joseph Smith’s baloney, Brigham wouldn’t have had 56 wives. Or 53. I’ve lost count.

It’s all about Joseph Smith. That’s the trademark of a cult; constantly propping up a particular man (or woman) with “the revelation”.

Joseph Smith was more successful than most of the 1800’s Americans. But many left their mark: Ellen G. White, Mary Baker Eddy, Charles Taze Russell, Charles and Myrtle Fillmore and in the mid-1900’s, Herbert W. Armstrong, self-declared “Elijah”.


50 posted on 03/10/2011 11:25:08 AM PST by F15Eagle (1 John 5:4-5, 4:15, 5:13; John 3:17-18, 6:69, 11:25, 14:6, 20:31; Rom10:8-11; 1 Tim 2:5; Titus 3:4-5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-82 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson