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Observing weakness with charity
Mormon Times ^ | 10 March 2011 | Dan Peterson

Posted on 03/10/2011 6:49:45 AM PST by T Minus Four

With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people. (No better quality of human is available.) "We have this treasure in earthen vessels," the apostle Paul said, referring to the gospel and its mortal ministers, "that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us."

Although we obviously shouldn't be surprised at it, the church's human side is sometimes jarring and, if permitted, can cause disillusionment. It's urgently important, therefore, for our own sake, that we "clothe (our)selves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace" (Doctrine and Covenants 88:125). Failure to do so can be spiritually lethal.

"For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged," Jesus taught, "and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matthew 7:2). Christians worldwide regularly pray, rather dangerously, that the Lord "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

Why is this dangerous? "If ye forgive men their trespasses," the Savior explained, "your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses" (Matthew 6:12, 14-15). And nobody is guiltless.

"Use every man after his desert," says Shakespeare's Hamlet, "and who should 'scape whipping?"

"My disciples, in days of old," the Lord says, "sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened" (Doctrine and Covenants 64:8).

In our dispensation, Thomas Marsh became so preoccupied with Joseph Smith's perceived imperfections that he forfeited his apostleship and was excommunicated in 1839. This wasn't because Joseph was perfect. "He has sinned," the Lord flatly declared. (Fortunately, my sins aren't announced in scripture.) But, adds the Lord, "he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin" (Doctrine and Covenants 64:7, 9).

Rebaptized in 1857, Marsh expressed regret for his nearly two decades outside the church. "I got a beam in my eye and thought I could discover a mote in Joseph's eye. … I was … completely darkened."

Contrast his attitude with that of the well-educated Lorenzo Snow, who boarded with the Smiths for a time:

"I can fellowship the President of the Church, (even) if he does not know everything I know. … I saw the … imperfections in (Joseph). … I thanked God that he would put upon a man who had those imperfections the power and authority he placed upon him … for I knew that I myself had weakness(es), and I thought there was a chance for me. … I thanked God that I saw those imperfections."

"I feel like shouting hallelujah, all the time," Joseph's close friend and disciple Brigham Young declared, "when I think that I ever knew Joseph Smith." Significantly, his dying words were "Joseph! Joseph! Joseph!"

Observing others' weaknesses, perhaps with sorrow, is very different from dwelling on them. Charity, the apostle Paul wrote, "rejoiceth not in iniquity." This surely applies to our fellow members, bishops, Relief Society presidents and stake presidents, and to the good but imperfect men who have been and are called to lead the church.

A year after leaving the American presidency, Theodore Roosevelt delivered a speech in Paris, titled "Citizenship in a Republic":

"It is not the critic who counts," he said, "not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other non-Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: blasphemy; christian; lds; mormon
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1 posted on 03/10/2011 6:49:48 AM PST by T Minus Four
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To: T Minus Four

Your made up title is unnecessarily provocative. I’d ask the moderator to change it if I were you.


2 posted on 03/10/2011 6:53:56 AM PST by DManA
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To: DManA

I intended it to be provocative. Aren’t you alarmed by the claim?


3 posted on 03/10/2011 6:54:57 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
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To: T Minus Four

It doesn’t alarm be but no good can come from it.


4 posted on 03/10/2011 6:56:50 AM PST by DManA
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To: DManA
Well, according to lds Jesus is a mormon. He has been dead baptized and his marriages have been recorded in their ancestry.
5 posted on 03/10/2011 6:58:03 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
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To: T Minus Four

I’m a little slow on the uptake for the moment...where’s the part where it implies (or says directly) that Jesus was a Mormon?


6 posted on 03/10/2011 6:58:26 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: DManA

Well, than go find something you believe in fighting for and do so. This is my hill.


7 posted on 03/10/2011 6:59:20 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
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To: T Minus Four
For people who claim in their articles of faith that the Bible is flawed they sure spend a lot of time quoting it to justify their blaspheming BoM.
8 posted on 03/10/2011 7:00:41 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
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To: Carpe Cerevisi
With one striking exception, the LDS Church's leaders and members are, and always have been, flawed people

I was worried for a second - at least they didn't mean Joseph Smith.

9 posted on 03/10/2011 7:00:57 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
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To: DManA

The “Truth” is provocative?

LDS folk think Jesus was one of them.


10 posted on 03/10/2011 7:06:49 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: T Minus Four

Daniel Peterson loves donuts....AND Joseph Smith was indeed a sinful man.


11 posted on 03/10/2011 7:17:14 AM PST by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
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To: DManA
The title is impossible as Jesus was a Jew and lived 2000 years before the Mormons came along. Why would I want to read an article form an uninformed alarmists?
12 posted on 03/10/2011 7:26:17 AM PST by mountainlion
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To: mountainlion
It is interesting as you point out. However, lds have dead baptized Jesus, sealed Him in marriage, recorded those marriages and to lds everyone is a Gentile.
13 posted on 03/10/2011 7:28:24 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
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To: colorcountry
Daniel Peterson loves donuts

Well, I suppose donuts do not violate the letter of the law of the Word of Wisdom, but perhaps the spirit.

Just goes to show you how a religion of laws becomes an exercise in doing the least that is required.

14 posted on 03/10/2011 7:34:12 AM PST by T Minus Four (Support the SFTSOPWDIABMTTPBTTASIFTF and stop this needless tragedy!)
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To: svcw
That is about like me saying I reject you therefore you do not exist. You are saying that lsd is greater than Jesus is and that you can capture him with non Biblical beliefs and take whatever you want to build up an un Biblical religion. I accept Jesus not you.
15 posted on 03/10/2011 7:35:13 AM PST by mountainlion
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To: T Minus Four

Everybody knows that Jesus was Catholic...duh..ble/sarc....magritte


16 posted on 03/10/2011 7:44:03 AM PST by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: mountainlion
ah no. I am not sure what your response has to do with my post. I was pointing out what lds teach, not what I believe.
It was Joseph Smith who said he was greater than Jesus. lds do not believe in the Biblical Jesus. They believe is a created Jesus.
I am just going with you thought I was defending lds, I was not. lds is blaspheme at its finest. lds is not God's Church. lds is build on lies.
satan lied to Eve - you to can be a god
satan lied to Joseph Smith - you to can be god
Joseph Smith lied to everyone
17 posted on 03/10/2011 7:52:01 AM PST by svcw (You will never understand Grace until you understand you do not deserve it)
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To: T Minus Four

I don’t appreciate the “tease” just to get someone to read the article. Nowhere in the article did the man say Jesus was Mormon. I think the mods should change the title too.

This is an affront to Christians, especially in this time of Lent.


18 posted on 03/10/2011 7:55:23 AM PST by fourdny2 (God Bless The USA and GWB)
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To: svcw
I did misunderstand. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ. That is my basic belief. I really do not an understanding of Mormons but I don't have a need to study them their beliefs.
19 posted on 03/10/2011 7:59:30 AM PST by mountainlion
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To: svcw
I did misunderstand. The only way to God is through Jesus Christ. That is my basic belief. I really do not an understanding of Mormons but I don't have a need to study them their beliefs.
20 posted on 03/10/2011 7:59:42 AM PST by mountainlion
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