Skip to comments.New World Order, New Age Religion
Posted on 03/12/2011 2:58:25 PM PST by betty boop
By Jean F. Drew
Executive Summary: Our thesis is the New World Order needs a new age religion to back it up. Old age religions obligate their followers to a moral code ill-suited to new age progressivist designs and purposes. So people worldwide need to be re-trained in the spirituality department. Perhaps a clue as to what sort of training this would be can be found at the United Nations itself. The U.N. has chartered two NGOs World Goodwill and Lucis Trust which serve as advisors to various U.N. Departments, including the important Public Information Office. These NGOs are devoted to New Age religious principles, and teach such doctrines as the Hidden Masters of the Hierarchy and the Reappearance of Lord Maitreya, the true Christ. Generally, New Age Religion purports to be a blend of Buddhism and Christianity. We find, however, that the two are not blendable. To make our case, we resorted to G. I. Gurdjieffs Beelzebubs Tales to His Grandson. In his fascinating myth, we find Gurdjieff attempting to blend them. It seems he feels this can be done because both purportedly are founded in the teachings of a single, very ancient Wisdom School which was founded on antideluvian Atlantis. Thus Gurdjieffs myth is about much more than just this Wisdom School. Beelzebubs Tales is also a myth about the entire cosmic evolution of the planet Earth. In the process, we see him either defacing Christian symbols such as, e.g., Original Sin, The Revolt of the Angels, Eden; or outright denying them. For example of the latter, he calls the idea of objective Good and Evil as the most maleficent lie ever told. We also find him embroidering Buddhism with a hierarchy of cosmic spiritual personalities that are not mentioned in Buddhas direct teachings. We then speculate about the possible teachings of the putative Ancient Wisdom School, and then compare and contrast the teachings of Christianity and Buddhism, showing why they are unblendable. In conclusion, we proffer the idea that New Age Religion teaches its pupils obsessive self-preoccupation and habits suited to a slave society. It teaches that there is no objective Good and Evil. It teaches submission to the teachers. Above all, it teaches that all human thinking, feelings, beliefs, and views; morality and philosophies and politics rooted in centuries of human cultural experience and history are utterly false. Thus they must be swept away so that Objective Science supposedly the basis of New World Order governance may finally come into its own.
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Social order and religious belief have gone hand-in-hand all the way back to the dawn of human history. The record shows that a social order a society declines and finally fails when its traditional religious symbols lose their resonance in the hearts and minds of the members of the society. When this happens, the society eventually falls apart. Then inevitably an enterprising tyrant comes along to re-engineer it in divers ways, thus to impose a new order on it usually to his enormous personal benefit, at great expense to the people he would rule.
Yet, even when religious symbols have been drained of their original light and life under the pressure of the so-called scientific revolution, they can still remain as husks of their former selves in human personal and social memory. Although detached from living experience, still they can be usefully exploited by would-be social engineers for their ideational content.
Nowadays many people have noticed the planet seems to be falling into wide-scale disorder (again), via war, terrorism, environmental irresponsibility, financial malfeasance, etc. Since this disorder is not a local or regional phenomenon but extends to the entire planet, therefore, the reasoning goes, its solution must be global, too. To meet this need the structure of a universal government based on scientific expertise must be created.
In light of the connection between social order and religious belief, a global New World Order would require a correspondingly global World Religion. And it turns out there is a religion or spiritual tradition that is extraordinarily well-suited to fostering globalist goals: New Age Religion.
To many people nowadays, it seems that religion is all about correct knowledge. That is, it is about what one knows, and not about how one lives. Thus man, seemingly so confused at precisely this point, should be easy to reprogram with a new religion to fill the void of the evacuated Spirit, one better aligned with the requirements and values of the putative emerging New World Order.
An ersatz blend of Buddhism and Christianity, New Age Religion claims to globally unite all the peoples of the world heretofore divided along religious lines under a new spirit of brotherhood and sharing.
Let us suppose the United Nations is the model for implementing the New World Order. One then wonders whether the U.N. has any particular preference of religious or spiritual tradition suitable as an intellectual and moral support for the emerging global order it is spearheading. As it turns out, the U.N. does.
Under the U.N. organizational umbrella are two fully-accredited non-governmental organizations whose stated purpose is to advance New Age spirituality. The two NGOs are closely related. The first, World Goodwill, a program of Lucis Trust, is an official advisor to the U.N.s Department of Public Information. It also maintains informal relations with certain of the Specialised Agencies and with a wide range of national and international non-governmental organizations.
The other NGO is World Goodwills parent, Lucis Trust itself. Founded by Alice Bailey (18801949), Lucis Trust is a famous promoter of Arcane School spiritualism. Lucis Trust is also Alice Baileys publisher: Her books bear such titles as, e.g., Initiation, Human and Solar; The Reappearance of the Christ; The Rays and the Initiations; Esoteric Psychology; A Treatise on White Magic; A Treatise on Cosmic Fire. They continue to sell well, decade after decade.
Lucis Trusts stated mission is to promote the education of the human mind towards recognition and practice of the spiritual principles and values upon which a stable and interdependent world society may be based. [Emphasis added.] Accordingly, it is a respected advisor to the U.N.s Department of Economic and Social Affairs.
Alice Bailey was the original promoter of the doctrines of the Hidden Masters of the Hierarchy and the Reappearance of Maitreya, the true Christ. Her student Benjamin Creme (1922 ) has until very recently (hes now 89) tirelessly worked to promote these ideas, especially in Western (traditionally Christian) countries.
As a former Bailey student personally acquainted with Benjamin Creme, the present writer would describe this New Age programme as a chimera consisting of a Buddhist chassis, richly festooned with Christian symbolism and allusions. Evidently this is a bid to integrate the philosophical and religious traditions of East and West into a universal religion.
Yet such blending of Buddhism and Christianity arguably does not and cannot work. The Buddhist approach to Truth, as the philosopher Joseph Needleman has pointed out, is scientific and psychological, while the Christian approach is based on reason and feeling. Can one blend oil and water?
Enter G. I. Gurdjieff (1866(?) 1949), and his spiritual autobiography, Beelzebubs Tales to His Grandson.
Like Bailey and Creme, Gurdjieff is a seminal source of New Age religious ideas. But he is far craftier and more cunning (and conning) than they. While Bailey and Creme devote themselves to writing textbooks on human spiritual improvement, Gurdjieff is a story-teller. He purports to blend the oil and the water by his claim that Buddhism and Christianity (via classical Western philosophy) have a common, very ancient root located in a Wisdom School that once flourished on the lost continent of Atlantis. Thus Beelzebubs Tales is a fascinating exercise in myth construction.
However, just as with Bailey and Creme, in Gurdjieff the Buddhist chassis seems far removed from the original teachings of Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha. There is nothing in Buddhas direct teaching that indicates the existence of a proliferation of exalted spiritual beings powers and principalities who expertly keep all the cosmic trains running on time. Buddha said nothing about a hierarchy of great Spiritual Personalities responsible for World-creation and World-maintenance though certainly Bailey, Creme, and Gurdjieff do. Nor does Buddha ever speak of a Creator. Moreoever what Gurdjieff does with Christian symbols (and classical philosophical insights) is nothing short of turning them inside-out, as we shall see.
Let us grant that once-upon-a-time there was such a thing as an Ancient Wisdom school, whether on Atlantis or somewhere else. In the West, its influence would likely have first surfaced in the Pythagorean School, which marks the transition from oral to written teaching methods. Pythagoras (~600 B.C.) himself had sources according to legend, he studied 20 years with the Egyptian priests, and also with the Chaldean priests (Babylon).
The intriguing question is: What are the sources of Pythagoras sources?
Yet just as a physicist cannot see the beginning of the physical universe, neither can a philosopher see the beginning of human thought and religious experience which are universals.
Then again, Pythagoras was the teacher of Socrates, who was the teacher of Plato; who in turn was the teacher of Aristotle, the founder of natural philosophy, or of what we today call: science. Moreover, key elements of this tradition were later absorbed into Christian theology, via the great Doctors of the Church, notably Augustine, Aquinas, and Anselm.
Let us turn now to Gurdjieffs myth. We open Book 1 of Beelzebubs Tales to His Grandson to find Beelzebub rocketing around the Universe in a space ship, grandson Hassein at his side. Hassein is avid to hear the wisdom his grandfather has to impart about cosmic Reality at all scales.
Gurdjieffs myth is no less than the cosmic history of the Planet Earth, understood as a constituent part of the One Cosmos, out of which issues the order of the physical Universe. The maintenance of this Universe is in the care of certain spiritual persons of exalted rank, who are responsible for ensuring that the Cosmic Plan goes forward according to Plan.
These beings go by the titles of Archangel, Angel, Saint, etc. Their main job is to monitor and regulate energy exchanges between the bodies of the solar system. They must do this in a way that sustains not only the solar system and the flourishing of its various planets (many of which are inhabited by life forms), but they must do this in a way that does not violate cosmic principles (laws). Thus, these Archangels, etc., are experts in the field of cosmic energy distribution and balancing. They are the World-creatorsWorld-maintainers. At bottom, they are spiritual scientists (forgive the oxymoron).
But it turns out they are not all-knowing, and according to Beelezebubs tale, they can make mistakes of disastrous consequences for man.
Although it is impossible to do justice to a work of over 1,000 pages in a short article, we can sketch out some of the main ideas.
Gurdjieffs tale commences with the first cosmic disaster ever to befall planet Earth, which he uses as the background for a concept of Original Sin strikingly different from the Judeo-Christian one.
This first disaster was the ancient comet strike on Earth that carved the Moon (in this tale actually two moons) out of the body of the Earth. It was a disaster for the very reason that the above-mentioned saints did not see it coming.
According to the tale, mankind first appeared on Earth shortly after this catastrophe took place. In a nutshell, mankind had to be introduced on Earth when the solar system was suddenly, unexpectedly complicated by the unforeseen appearance of two new planets, Moon and Anulios. Then mankind had to be introduced because, as Beelzebub tells us, a certain human suffering was required in order to smooth out the disturbances to the cosmic energy balance occasioned by the effects of the comet strike on Earth.
The Moon as a massive body physically torn out of the Earth, according to this myth, gained planetary status thereby. The unexpected separation of Moon from Earth required the saints to recalculate how to maintain the overall balance of energies as between the source (Earth) and its separated part, the Moon (actually two moons). What was required was a certain shifting and rebalancing of energies from precisely mankind to the Moon in order to rebalance the energy distribution of the solar system caused by this unexpected situation, thus to maintain the Cosmic Order, the Plan.
As for the other moon, Anulios, we are told only this: Being of exceedingly small size and inhabiting a remote sector of space, it has not yet been detected by man. Gurdjieff leaves unclear what Anulios energy demands on the human race might be.
The upshot is: The saintly bright boys the spiritual scientists who didnt see this situation coming, figured they had a real problem here:
[I]t might happen that having understood the reason for their arising, namely, that by their existence they should maintain the detached fragments of their planet, and being convinced of this their slavery to circumstances utterly foreign to them, they would be unwilling to continue their existence and would on principle destroy themselves.
Thus the question: What did the saintly bright boys who didnt see this situation coming do to remedy this situation? After all, they hardly wanted man to commit suicide for Moon needed their being-sacrifices in order to develop its own atmosphere.
The answer: They decided to tamper with man as he then existed by installing a brand-new organ, called the Kundabuffer, into his bodily organization. This Kundabuffer is perhaps best understood as a program designed to divert human spiritual energies into the service of personal pleasure and enjoyment. Keep em busy with this stuff, and they wont so much mind they are slaves . Or so the thinking went at the time among these great spiritual personalities who evidently have zero foresight, and so are forever playing a game of catch-up ball just like the rest of us three-brained beings (that is, human beings, referred to often in this work as the scum breeding on/inhabiting the ill-fated planet Earth).
So the darned thing the Kundabuffer kicked in; and the next thing we find out is that the saintly bright boys who didnt see this situation coming came to regret their decision to install the Kundabuffer. For one thing, it seemed to lead to the propensity of human beings to destroy one another. So, regretting their unfortunate decision, they removed the Kundabuffer from the human bodily organization .
But too late! It had already left its mark on human nature; and moreover, this mark was relentlessly, necessarily heritable unto the generations. (Gurdjieff seems more Lamarckian than Darwinian in his idea of biological evolution.)
The point is, unlike the Judeo-Christian traditions view of the Fall of Man the Original Sin, Adams fatal choice, which was his alone to make, which is likewise relentlessly heritable unto the generations Beelzebubs account holds man himself entirely blameless for his suffering in the world. It was just a huge cosmic screw-up traceable to a certain overly-anxious Archangel, a vast cosmic mistake.
But the upshot is: Mankind has to pay for the consequences of this mistake nonetheless, unto the generations. Mans fate is to offer his personal suffering in service to the Moon. This is an irremovable condition, heritable unto the generations.
In other words, mankind was created for the sole purpose of discharging a cosmic debt. He lives and suffers and dies in service to this purpose. And he binds his descendants to this irremovable condition of slavery simply by breeding.
The second great cosmic disaster to befall the Earth was the destruction of the continent Atlantis by means of a massive flood. The significance of this event is as follows:
According to Beelzebub, there had arisen on Atlantis a very great school of human psychology or Ancient Wisdom that possibly conceived of man as a microcosm of the Cosmos, a complete recapitulation of it on a vastly smaller scale. This school may have maintained that, in order for man to understand the Being of the Cosmos of which he was a living part, he first needed to understand the order of his own being. In order for him to do that, he needed to realize that the order of the human mind did not consist solely of its rational function, but also incorporates feeling and instinctive functions that mirror the order of the encompassing Cosmos of which he is a part and participant. In shorthand: As above, so below.
According to Beelzebub, the humans of this great Atlantean school were of such superlative mental acuity that they perceived, from their own careful measurements of the local energies, that some really bad thing was about to befall the Earth. And so they deployed their people out of Atlantis to all quarters of the then-known world to see whether anybody could find out anything with respect to the impending doom, so as to try to prevent it.
Thus initiates of the Atlantean School disbursed to such places as Central Asia, Egypt, and India.
When Atlantis was destroyed, the school there would have been utterly destroyed also had it not been for this antediluvian diaspora of its initiates to other parts of the world.
In short, this school and its ideas lived on, though in increasingly degraded form over time.
It later emerges in supposed pristine condition under Gurdjieffs symbol, Ashiata Shiemash, a holy teacher and great spiritual being sent from Above to revivify the ancient ideas so to guide mankind in the acquisition of Objective Science.
Ashiata Shiemash tells us that Objective Science begins in human regeneration. Human regeneration, or spiritual evolution, begins with inculcating the sense of Remorse, which leads to Conscience. This then proceeds to Gratitude, which furthermore leads, in a properly-formed human consciousness, to a more-or-less permanent sense of selfless Duty. His teaching method is designed to bring forth such fruits in his human subjects.
Compare this idea with the Christian teaching, love thy neighbor as thyself. The corresponding Shiemash formulation would go: Love thy neighbor more than thyself. Or even: Love anything that breathes more than oneself.
This regeneration/reformation of man is done by invoking the proper being-obligolnian-strivings in human beings. There are five such strivings:
The first striving: to have in their ordinary being-existence everything satisfying and really necessary for their planetary body.
The second striving: to have a constant and unflagging instinctive need for self-perfection in the sense of being.
The third: the conscious striving to know ever more and more concerning the laws of World-creation and World-maintenance.
The fourth: the striving from the beginning of their existence to pay for their arising and their individuality as quickly as possible, in order afterwards to be free to lighten as much as possible the Sorrow of our COMMON FATHER.
And the fifth: the striving always to assist the most rapid perfecting of other beings, both those similar to oneself and those of other forms, up to the degree of the sacred Martfotai that is up to the degree of self-individuality.
The point is, Beelzebub seems to be saying that a New Eden can be raised on these five strivings. People grasping these principles new initiates would begin to speak of them in public, and model them in their daily lives, whereupon the crowd would see that these were, in fact, really fine principles for ordering human existence. So they would emulate these models.
The problem is this attractive idea has never before played out successfully in actual reality, although this fact hardly reflects a lack of trying. The New Eden requires chiefs, leaders, to organize such an enterprise and carry it out something like the U.N. and a willing, cooperative, even supine body of followers to make it happen:
At that period the counsel and guidance and in general every word of these chiefs, became law for all the three-brained beings there [i.e., human beings], and were fulfilled by them with devotion and joy.
One way to read this: The human spirits sublime fulfillment consists in the rejection of ones ego and free will, so to hitch ones individuality up to the great star of expert opinion of spiritual activists, leading to the functioning of an expertly-guided group mind.
Near the end of Book 1, Gurdjieff says that if the methods of Ashiata Shiemash were to fail, he hopes the bright boys running the cosmic show would implant a new organ in mankind, similar to the Kundabuffer. But this time, the new organ would not be devoted to the purpose of motivating experiences of pleasure and enjoyment. It would be devoted to inculcating a sense of self-sacrifice and self-denial, in the interest of a common human welfare that is being defined and directed by otherworldly spiritual guides. Gurdjieff uses the word welfare. I take it he prefers that word to the classical philosophical word, the Good.
It is reasonable to conclude that the removed Kundabuffer and the proposed new Kundabuffer are more like computer programs than they are like any human organ we know of. But I wonder: Are human beings really programmable in this way?
But the problem remains, as Beelzebub himself acknowledges: The human being will do his level best to destroy the fruits of the Very Saintly Labors of Ashiata Shiemash any time hes given a chance.
In the humble opinion of the present writer, this is precisely because the God-fearing individual knows as if by instinct, as it were, that this so-called holy person Ashiata Shiemash wants to strip him of his own holy individuality and the liberty invested in him by God, in order to make him amenable to the social reengineering that the experts of Objective Science seers of a destroyed Atlantis have in mind.
The third disaster to befall the ill-fated planet was the rising of cosmic winds affecting the planet, such that the very mountains were ground down, disintegrated into particles, thence distributed and deposited as sand. This sandification process resulted in, e.g., the Sahara and Gobi deserts. The disaster, from Beelzebubs point of view, was that these sands buried virtually all extant writings of the Atlantean Wisdom School. (But not to worry. He finds them later, and reassembles them in his tale to his grandson.)
Not much to add here regarding the Third Disaster, for Beelzebub does not further elaborate. But he does suggest that yet other, forthcoming cosmic catastrophes will befall the ill-fated planet in due course.
Beelzebub himself is a spiritual person of exalted rank one of those saintly bright boys who didnt see this situation coming (though probably of more lawyerly than hands-on predisposition). As he tells it, once-upon-a-time he committed a certain youthful indiscretion, for which reason he and certain of his friends were exiled from some undefined celestial realm to the planet Mars. Beelzebub has a great big telescope there to investigate the doings on all the planets of the Solar System (many inhabited by living beings), and especially that ill-fated planet, Earth. And he has perfect means to descend to Earth anytime he wishes to visit: He has a space ship on constant stand-by for this purpose. He has made this journey six times in the history of Earth, typically for some good purpose, such as ending the practice of animal sacrifice, or ending the caste system in India.
Beelzebub is not Lucifer. Lucifer is mentioned infrequently, inconsequently. (The name Satan never appears.) When he is mentioned, Beelzebub always refers to him as our Arch Cunning . Beyond that, Gurdjieff leaves Lucifers cosmic role seemingly undefined.
Thus Gurdjieffs version of the cosmic revolt of Lucifer and one-third of the angels. There is no explanation of what Beelzebubs youthful indiscretion was; but it seems he was a ranking member of the party of the fallen angels all the same. He is rehabilitated later, in the course of Gurdjieffs myth.
In Beelzebubs tale, the Tower of Babel was constructed on the basis of a single question: Does man have a soul? This question has two main camps: the dualists and the atheists:
In the dualist or idealist teaching, it was said that within the coarse body of the being-man, there is a fine and invisible body, which is just the soul.
This fine body of man is immortal, that is to say, it is never destroyed .
In [the atheist] teaching it was stated that there is no God in the world, and moreover no soul in man, and hence that all those talks and discussions about the soul are nothing more than the deliriums of sick visionaries.
It was further maintained that there exists in the World only one special law of mechanics, according to which everything that exists passes from one form into another; that is to say, the results which arise from certain preceding causes are gradually transformed and become causes for subsequent results.
Man also is therefore only a consequence of some preceding cause and in his turn must, as a result, be a cause of certain consequences.
Further, it was said that even what are called supernatural phenomena really perceptible to most people, are all nothing but these same results ensuing from the mentioned special law of mechanics.
Sound familiar? Here we see the age-old dispute regarding free will vs. determinism put into sharp relief. And also the popular scientific claim that the entire universe reduces to matter in its motions.
Addressing this situation, Gurdjieff puts this speech into the mouth of his character, Hamolinadir, a middling initiate of the Atlantean wisdom school:
There is now proceeding among us in the city of Babylon the general public building-of-a-tower by means of which to ascend to Heaven and there to see with our own eyes what goes on there.
This tower is being built of bricks which outwardly all look alike, but which are made of quite different materials.
Among these bricks are bricks of iron and wood and also of dough and even of eider down.
Well then, at the present time, a stupendously enormous tower is being built of such bricks right in the center of Babylon, and every more or less conscious person must bear in mind that sooner or later this tower will certainly fall and crush not only all the people of Babylon, but also everything else that is there.
As I personally still wish to live and have no desire to be crushed by this Babylonian tower, I shall therefore now immediately go away from here, and all of you, do as you please.
Unfortunately, Gurdjieff does not propose a way of reconciling the underlying dispute dualist vs. atheist in the entire tale of Beelzebubs conversations with his grandson. Perhaps he knows that, as between dualists and atheists, there is no reconciliation on questions of Truth? That is to say, there is no common ground between them on which rational discourse could make a stand? Thus all one gets from such attempts is: the construction of a Tower of Babel that will wind up crushing us all?
Gurdjieff doesnt declare himself on this question. But I note the myth he constructs in Beelzebubs Tales to His Grandson pays obeisance to the atheists special law of mechanics.
In Book 3, Beelzebub says mankinds understanding of angels and demons is horrifically warped, because human beings have bought into the most maleficent lie ever told: That there is such a thing as objective Good and Evil.
Beelzebub holds that what we call good and evil are merely internal processes in man. Good is bad, because it leads man down false paths of egoism; Evil is good because it is a symbol for destructive processes in Nature which are necessary to Being itself.
As Beelzebub complains,
[Man has] already based all questions without exception, questions concerning ordinary being-existence as well as questions about self-perfecting and also about various philosophies and every kind of science existing there, and of course also about their innumerable religious teachings and even their notorious what are called morality, politics, laws, morals, and so on, exclusively on that fantastic but very maleficent idea. [Emphasis added.]
Gurdjieff has a plan for eradicating this most maleficent lie from human consciousness. In the very last chapter of Book 3, he tells us what it is:
To destroy, mercilessly, without any compromises whatsoever, in the mentation [thought] and feelings of the reader, the beliefs and views, by centuries rooted in him [by heredity and culture], about everything existing in the world.
In short Gurdjieff takes the wrecking-ball approach to all existing human cultures, clearing and leveling the ground so an entirely new system can be erected on the razed site.
As Anthony Daniels wryly noted in National Review (The Brute and the Terrorist, March 7, 2011), nowadays a man best shows his independence of mind and generosity of spirit by rejecting everything he has inherited from his historical and cultural past.
One imagines that Gurdjieff approves this attitude. Evidently Gurdjieff wishes to reduce his pupil to the status of tabula raza, a blank slate on which he can write anything at all. And how better to do that than to detach from human consciousness mankinds hard-won culture and history? With this support gone, how is man to locate himself in Reality?
The two spiritual/philosophical systems East (Buddhism) and West (Christianity/classical philosophy) are similar in their basic understanding of the structure of human psyche as a three-bodied system consisting of consciousness (rational intellect), unconsciousness (feeling), and organic instinct. They also agree the soul, psyche, is eternal. Perhaps this basic agreement owes to a far older common tradition, a school of Ancient Wisdom, whether or not it was located in Atlantis.
But beyond this point of agreement, the two traditions seemingly diverge. The bifurcation occurs at the question of how the two traditions deal with the proper alignment and balance of the three-bodied system, the human psyche.
Socrates and Plato regard this problem as solvable by giving each of the three bodies or centers its due, and then to bring them into proper alignment. The method used to accomplish this is relentless self-interrogation Know Thyself involving a process called anamnesis, or recollection, remembering.
Buddha suggests that the object of the game is to bring the centers of feeling and instinct under the complete control of the rational intellect. That is, Buddhism does not regard feeling or instinct as natural goods, but as something that must be overcome. Feeling and instinct must be dominated by the rational component of psyche in order for human beings to be liberated from the cycle of rebirth samsara and its suffering. And when one achieves such liberation, one attains the blessed condition of Nirvana final release from all the pains of earthly, bodily existence.
In contrast, Socrates/Plato (and Christian theology in certain respects) regard psyche (soul, inclusive of mind) as a complete divine specification of a unique human person. Soul materializes the body, incarnates in it. Soul needs to be actively tended to by its recipient, corrected, and perfected, in order for the human being to attain the proper balance of consciousness enabling him to realize whatever divinity he has latently within him, according to the divine measure. And then to express this latent divinity as far as possible within his own practical existence, with an eye on his post-existence: Dike divine Justice is never far below the surface in Plato. Platos message for the ages is that all human beings are subject to divine Judgment in all matters involving divine Justice. Thus the idea of personal responsibility and accountability runs through Socrates/Plato. (Beelzebub calls Socrates a crank.)
In contrast it seems for Buddha, psyche is more like a little seed that one is born with. It is not a full specification of the human person, but a locus of potentiality that man must develop by his own efforts, according to his own reason (the imperfections of which will hopefully be corrected and cured in the virtually endless process of reincarnation). And its destiny is to realize itself as a worthy particle of the divine Prana the divine Cosmic Essence which realization represents the eternal merger and identification of the self-perfected personal self with the divine Cosmic Self. At which point, one can say of oneself: I AM (God).
Strange to say it, but Buddhism seems to tell us that the only personal obligation that one has is: to release oneself from personal suffering. The idea of Justice as something involving the entire human community doesnt seem to be exactly topical in this system of ideas.
Whatever one thinks about these problems, in Beelzebubs Tales Gurdjieff is mining a common vein of ancient thought, and seemingly very knowledgeably and skillfully that is, craftily.
But as he himself tells us, hes a wiseaker. It seems Gurdjieff is not so much a charlatan as he is a chameleon, even a shape-shifter. Furthermore, Gurdjieff may have been a practitioner of coyote Wisdom.
In American Indian lore the coyote symbolizes the Trickster. He excels by cunning (magic) at depicting and conveying false pictures of Reality to human beings, at the behest of a Shaman. And then they really get into trouble! (The humans, that is.)
G. I. Gurdjieff may be a trickster in just this sense.
Gurdjieff tells us that the universe is filled with a myriad of life-bearing planets. Beelzebub deplores the fact that the ill-fated planet, Earth, is the only planet that isnt ordered under a single King a global government. Clearly he feels that this situation needs to be fixed.
In common with Lucis Trust, Gurdjieff recognizes that, in order for a world government to succeed, its would-be subjects must first be educated towards recognition and practice of the spiritual principles and values upon which a stable and interdependent world society may be based. His teaching methods and those of Bailey and Creme work toward that end. In the end, the New Age Religion championed by the U.N. seems intended as the universal spiritual justification for ever-expansive global secular power. No wonder the U.N. accords them respect.
Finally, what does this teaching teach? As a practical matter, it teaches obsessive self-preoccupation and habits suited to a slave society. It teaches that there is no objective Good and Evil. It teaches submission to the teachers. Above all, it teaches that all human thinking, feelings, beliefs, and views; morality and philosophies and politics rooted in centuries of human cultural experience and history are utterly false. Thus they must be swept away so that Objective Science supposedly the basis of New World Order governance may finally come into its own.
Untethered from the human past, including all former religious traditions, human beings are left vulnerable to domination by any crazy ideology that comes down the pike that can project effective political force.
Gurdjieff deploys amazing knowledge and skill craft to sell us this dubious proposition, which seems to falsify human nature at every turn.
Yet for all his craftiness, one has little sense of the mans character, of his moral core. Then again, the idea of moral core cannot be found anywhere in Beelzebubs Tales to His Grandson.
And so in reading him, one is advised to recall a bit of practical wisdom, or common sense: The most successful liar is the man who can tell the truth skillfully.
©2011 Jean F. Drew
March 12, 2011
Benjamin Creme/Share International: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_International
Lucis Trust U.N. NGO: http://esango.U.N..org/civilsociety/showProfileDetail.do?method=showProfileDetails&profileCode=945
Alice Bailey/Lucis Trust home page: http://www.lucistrust.org/
Right off the top, additional information about Alice Bailey and Benjamin Creme seems to be in order.
It was Alice Bailey who first surfaced the doctrines of the "Hidden Masters of the Hierarchy" and "The Reappearance of the Lord Maitreya, the 'true' Christ." She claims that her direct source was just such a "hidden master," an adept spiritual personality sent "from Above" to dictate to Bailey the contents of her 22 books. As Bailey describes it, she was "channeling" a "risen" person who was, in his earthly life, a Tibetan monk by the name of Djwal Kuhl. What further can I say?
RE: Ben Creme. Unlike the case with Bailey (who died in 1949), I know this man personally. I absolutely certify him to you as a thorough-going British Socialist of the Fabian (read: progressivist) School.
Just some further "backgrounder" info for people who might actually be inclined to read this article.
Think of Benjamin Creme as the “spiritual” version of George Soros.
“Spiritual” as in evil spirits. A very strange and dangerous man.
Thank you ever so much, hinckley buzzard, for your obviously “enlightened” opinion the details of which you have not yet provided.
Great, and accurate article in my estimation! bttt
From my heart, thank you dear ones!
Thanks ever so much for your kind words!
While one can’t deny that sometimes obscure mythology can influence political movements (eg the Völkisch > Thule-Gesellschaft > Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei) where does one find the connection with this particular myth to current halls of power and how it specifically manifests?
The tragedy of pietism is -- it reduces Christianity to a set of internal "spiritual" experiences, a religion of "the heart." Historically, Christianity has been taught and practiced as a total world-view, that applied to all aspects of reality. An objective map of the real world, not just a tourist guide to one's own "inner light."
You can't trump a world view -- such as humanism, or Islam -- with a navel view. Besides, other players in the market can vend even more vivid experiences. To cite theologian Debby Boone, "How can it be wrong, when it feels so right? As I said, in the concluding paragraph of my dissertation,
Thank you, you're welcome!
I've been watching the "new-agers" and their antics for a long time. In fact I was just reading Gagdad Bob's unique perspective on the subject just the other day.
You might find it interesting, too:
Thank you ever so much for the link to Gagdad Bob's ever interesting insights on the most weighty matters facing mankind today.
BTW, dear Matchett-PI, do you know anything about Gagdad Bob's curriculum vitae? I mean, who is this guy? And where does he come from? So far, my search for this kind of information has led exactly nowhere.
But that doesn't mean I don't like him. :^)
Hopefully the "executive summary" at the top of this piece will enable you quickly to determine whether or not this rather "bizzare" article is worth your time to read through.
But if you stick around, I'd so love to hear from you!
The tragedy of pietism is -- it reduces Christianity to a set of internal "spiritual" experiences, a religion of "the heart." Historically, Christianity has been taught and practiced as a total world-view, that applied to all aspects of reality. An objective map of the real world, not just a tourist guide to one's own "inner light."
You can't trump a world view -- such as humanism, or Islam -- with a navel view. Besides, other players in the market can vend even more vivid experiences. To cite theologian Debby Boone, "How can it be wrong, when it feels so right?" As I said, in the concluding paragraph of my dissertation,
Unless religious people today also address issues of corporate structure, objective ethics, public identity, and the transmission of their values to future generations, they will suffer the fate of the losers in Atatürk's culture wars. A transcendent navel view, a personal mystical piety, no matter how intense, will never suffice as a substitute for a full-orbed world view. If people are unable to provide their offspring with explanations for life that are at least as big and comprehensive as all of life, their more thoughtful children will jump ship and join forces with ideologies that do seem to offer answers.
AMEN! Great comment.
Regarding those Protestant evangelical young adults not attending church, two points...
1) All the more reason to raise your children as reformed, and not evangelical.
2) The late teens and early twenties are the time when young people define themselves in opposition to their upbringing. It's almost unnatural not to "rebel" on some level. I ignored my faith during those years. College encouraged me to think of myself as "enlightened," and I glibly complied.
It wasn't until my brain developed beyond the usual liberal idiocy taught in universities and I had a family of my own that I rushed back to my faith with both arms open.
Regarding "new world religion," all superstition kills. Wherever we find it. It all comes from the same lie -- that men can do what only God can accomplish.
And yes. Our faith should encompass a world view - the entire world and how to deal with all of it in clear terms of God's sovereignty over all things.
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Colossians 1:16-17
"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Colossians 1:16-17
Islam is a perfect fit for the New World Order. It is a philosophy of control masquerading as religion with socialism built into it.
“The two spiritual/philosophical systems East (Buddhism) and West (Christianity/classical philosophy) are similar in their basic understanding of the structure of human psyche as a three-bodied system consisting of consciousness (rational intellect), unconsciousness (feeling), and organic instinct. They also agree the soul, psyche, is eternal.”
Betty, I don’t think this correctly characterizes the Christian perspective of Christ or the Apostles. After Christianity absorbed Hellenism, this notion of the soul is perhaps correct. But second temple Judaism (and therefore Christianity) believed that God created and maintain our bodies. We are our bodies and the bodies are God’s creation. Jesus resurrection and our later resurrections will be bodily resurrections but “glorified.” God created our bodies and who we are. I don’t see why the notion of a separate soul is necessary for the Creator to resurrect us. He spoke the universe into being. The importance of the body is demonstrated by the crucifixion as the fulfillment of the law and it’s central role in Christianity. The body (the Temple of God) was crucified and rebuilt in three days. Had Jesus not been made of real stuff and genuinely suffered, the whole thing falls apart.
I know there is some ambiguity in the New Testament on this issue. But I think it is dangerous to impose our modern notion of a “soul”, which is informed mainly by Greek thought, into first century Judaism or Christianity. Recall that Revelation ends in the creation of a new heaven and earth, where we will spend eternity. Paul and John are quite clear we will spend it there in glorified bodies, not as disembodied souls.
... he calls the idea of objective Good and Evil as the most maleficent lie ever told.
Sounds similar to Hagel's Dialectical Materialism on which Marx and Engels based their theories.
“BTW, dear Matchett-PI, do you know anything about Gagdad Bob’s curriculum vitae? I mean, who is this guy? And where does he come from? So far, my search for this kind of information has led exactly nowhere.” ~ betty boop
This is how he describes himself (its all I know):
Robert W.Godwin [Gagdad Bob] , Ph.D is a clinical psychologist whose interdisciplinary work has focused on the relationship between contemporary psychoanalysis, chaos theory, and quantum physics.
I know he’s said many times that he despises the thinking of most of the so-called experts in his field.
He’s not a theologian, but is highly interested in religion. He’s said that he trusts those more knowledgeable in the orthodox Christian religion (who read his blog), to set him straight if they think he’s wrong.
I know his wife has recently joined the Catholic Church, but he distrusts “organized religion”, from what I gather reading his blog.
He sure is one to think outside the box. :)
You have the proposition that a social order works best when there is a religious order that supports it. This proposition is stated at the outset of the article.
Also, you have the reality of Christianity, that in it's true form it emphasizes the "individual's" responsibility before God for his/her own actions and beliefs. Christianity, therefore, could NEVER be the supporting religious system for a this-world one-world communal social order, for its emphasis is on the individual.
This particular New Age "religion" is interesting because it calls for the "clearing and leveling the ground so an entirely new system can be erected on the razed site." One suspects that other New Age religions suggest the same thing. Additionally, these New Age religion call for the subjugation of the individual to the "teacher." (Dictatorship of the proletariat in priestly garb?)
Now, your question is a good one.
Where does this currently connect with the halls of power? If it does it is covert. What this article points out ominously is that there are specific offices within the United Nations that support these New Age philosophies.
One can only assume that they research and refine them in their retro-ductive evolution into some form that actually will be amenable to a world-wide sales campaign.
In the meantime, retro-grade, licentious Christianity is the leading candidate as "Mystery, Babylon, Mother of Harlots" who rides the final world system but is hated by it.
END TIMES PING LIST PING.
There’s an executive summary at the top . . . poorly paragraphed of course. LOL.
In all my reading and study and even epiphany.. this seems to be so.. and involved in these subjects.. and its all currently "proofing".. on a multiple "proof"..
Humans have flesh even a blind person can "see" this.. added to flesh is the concept of "spirit".. which is not clearly "seen".. On top of this is the concept of "God" being "Spirit" an even stronger "leaven".. So many variations of these themes have been proposed.. With sub-divisions and even levels of types..
Who is right and who's wrong.. you know "good" vs. "evil".. accurate vs inaccurate.. spiritual vs. fleshly.. intellectual vs. supercilious.. scientific vs. superstitious.. <-on like that..
How can you simplify these themes to something the average human can grasp?.. Answer is you probably can't.. especially if you eat the bread fully proofed.. the leaven has it all puffed up.. Humans have a hard time admitting they are not very smart..
My way of doing this (simplifying) is to see the operators of the parable (each operator) as very very deep subjects.. each holding much more "information" than is easily decrypted.. and the sum of the operators being much more than each of them.. To date with me; it could be that I cannot fully understand all this.. I'm not real sure what a "spirit" even IS.. But; I'm ok with not knowing everything.. Because I'm not too smart... I'm a republican..
There is a million stories in the "Big City".. could be entertainment or an addiction.. Got to watch out for the leaven.. Unleavened Kingdom of Heaven might be best for humans to consume.. But the leavened kind can be entertainment.. as long as you don't consume it..
Thanks for the ping. This is going to take some time to digest.
OK. For starters, I had never heard of Lucis Trust so I did a google search and found this nice summary...
(Sorry to pollute your thread with wiki)
So, Lucis Trust is a new agey, spiritualism...
Hardly subtle with the name. They obviously don’t feel any need to hide the real source of their philosophy, do they?
It’s kind of like just coming out and announcing who youre working for.
And Beelzebub? Really?
You overlook the fact that the God of Christianity is the Trinity, the ultimate form of community. God's covenants make Christianity a corporate, as well as an individual, reality. A family, a church, a tribe, have identities of their own, and are not just assortments of disconnected individuals rattling around together.
Every social order is a theocracy. Every law order is a theocracy. If a culture can't explain its ultimate reasons for existence, then it's dying. Unless you can explain why laws should be kept, they won't be.
God's Kingdom is too big to fit in our navels.
The church is a consideration, of course, as a candidate for some kind of communal lifestyle. The problem with that is that the individual is ultimately responsible before God.
The assembly is the assembly of the saints, that is, the “holy ONES.” These ONES join together because of “love”...another choice...and not because of any teaching that the individual must be obliterated and absorbed by the communal.
God is ONE being manifesting in three very distinct personas but not three separate beings. Oneness is not a form of community. There are cults which have some resemblance to Christianity, but they tend to define God as three separate beings in a troika. A troika of beings would be community, but God is One. Here's a little essay which, I'm told, tends to make this more clear:
The following will be 'a way' to understand the notion of the trinitarian nature of the Deity, not a strictly Biblical explanation, but one which is applicable to the teaching of the Bible. Here goes:
God The Father Almighty is greater than His creation, thus greater than created dimension time and dimension space, thus we may think of The Father Almighty as beyond time and space but not prevented from touching and indeed penetrating His creation.
The universe of space and time is likened to a bubble: what is inside the bubble is in time and space. But the nature of what is inside the bubble is only partially understood in modern Physics.
The Bible relates scenes which defy the simplistic notions we use for assumptive science. We'll get to that 'assumptive' notion shortly, but let us make the statement that God The Father Almighty is as comfortable outside the bubble as He is inside the bubble.
Modern Physics has discovered that the balance of forces and tensions sustaining the universe necessary for human life to arise within the universe is extremely delicate, on the order of a mathematical improbability, represented as a 'one in less than' fraction so tiny that a one over a one followed by more than one-hundred zeros defines the probability that the whole thing remains in balance! Such a delicate balancing act is but one of the continuing 'works' of the Holy Spirit of God. It is by the Spirit of God, The Word, that the universe came into existence and it is said in the Bible that by His Spirit the whole is maintained.
But the Bible also states that The Word was with God in the beginning and was God. In John's gospel we find that Jesus is The Word made flesh Who dwelt among us. So, inside the bubble Created by The Father Almighty, sustained by God The Holy Spirit, is the Word, God made flesh Who dwelt among us. The Creator does not stop being greater than His creation bubble, nor does His Spirit cease to sustain it all in balance, when Jesus comes in the flesh to dwell among us.
Here's an address to 'assumptive science limitations': Now, when one reads the Tanakh/Old Testament, one finds scenes like the fifth chapter of Daniel where a being is in one spacetime 'where/when' reaching into another 'where/when' to write on the palace party central wall of king Belshazzar. Just the forearm/hand is seen in the where/when of Belshazzar and the party folks, the rest of the being remains in 'another' where/when.
God The Father Almighty created this 'other' where/when, His Holy Spirit maintains its balance and separateness from our where/when, and Jesus has moved in and out of this other where/when: as shown when He resurrected from the tomb without rolling away the stone, just passing out of the tomb where/when, into 'another' where/when; then back into our where/when as He spoke to the women come to the sepulchre; and when He appeared in a locked and shuttered room with the disciples present; or appeared suddenly with the disciples walking on a road and broke bread with them then abruptly left our where/when to go to the 'other' where/when.
The trinitarian nature of God is shown in the Bible, even in the Tanakh. Trinity IS the nature of God as we have been given to know. Even in the Old Testament/Tanakh, we do have instruction on the Three nature of God as Creator, Sustainer, and Deliverer. God Is manifested as three yet one, seen identified by 'the work He is doing'.
With each manifestation, we are given to realize His presence simultaneously as Creator--because we exist in the realm He created, as Sustainer--because the balance is too delicate to stand alone without His sustaining the separation and interdependence, and as God with us in the person of Jesus our Lord and Savior.
Creme's got a zero-sum ideology: If America grows stronger, then this can only come at the expense of the rest of the world. Bad, bad America!!!
Of course it goes without saying that a New World Order cannot be established if America stays strong. But I notice that under the policies of the present Administration, America is being relentlessly, seemingly deliberately weakened in virtually all respects notably economically. Furthermore, our reputation as a reliable ally has been severely undermined. Increasingly, America "looks weak" in the eyes of the world.
If you have time, maybe you'd like to take a look at this, Jerusalem UFO, at Ben Creme's site, Share International. Of all the people I know, you are the most sensitive to the possibility that UFOs may be spiritual phenomena. Clearly the folks at Share International are turning this supposed UFO event into such.
What do you make of it?
Great insight, RJR_fan. Pietism, and the doctrine of one's own "inner light," do represent a reduction of Christianity, in my view. Christianity isn't about "navel-gazing." It isn't about acquiring knowledge; it isn't about "inner spiritual experiences." It's about how we live, how we orient ourselves to our self, to each other, to our world, and to God, Who Is "external and eternal," not some god "within." JMHO FWIW
It is so discouraging to learn that "new age" doctrines had been smuggled into the Lutheran chapel you attended in your college days. It seems so many churches of many denominations have chosen to accommodate the "Spirit of the Age" rather than defend Christian orthodoxy. Perhaps they think they can better fill the pews in this way. But the fact is, they are caving in to what I consider to be a demonic attack on the Body of Christ.
BTW, I definitely believe that Gurdjieff is a slippery, shifty character. The Russian mathematician and philosopher P. D. Ouspensky was one of his more brilliant students. Funny thing is, I enjoyed a couple of Ouspensky's books very much A New Model of the Universe and Tertium Organum. Full of interesting stories and insights, but not any kind of "system." However, I suspected The Fourth Way supposedly the best record of Gurdjieff's teaching was a total con job. This was confirmed for me later, when I started reading Alice Bailey and Benjamin Creme. They're all working the same "cadge." And I don't now recall what In Search of the Miraculous was even about. So I guess I wasn't terribly impressed by it.
Thank you so very much, RJR_fan, for your wonderful insights!
Sometimes the best way to "hide something" is to "put it out in the open." Often enough it's the really obvious things that we tend not to see.... Maybe because we don't want to see them?
Whatever the case, Lucis Trust has been "covertly" prosecuting a satanic attack on Western man and his culture for decades by now, right out there in the open Public Square. It has insinuated itself into the U.N. at a very high echelon. Nobody seems to care or even to notice.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, dear metmom!
Indeed. And that precisely is what Share International IS: "a worldwide sales campaign" for the "new and improved religion."
As pointed out in a recent reply to metmom, these people are hiding out in broad daylight, and they are doing so at the U.N., in the churches, in the academy, and likely in our charitable and governmental institutions as well.
Ultimately, as I noted there, this is a "covert attack" on Western man and his culture particularly his religious culture. Thinking it over, the attack is most specifically targeted at English-speaking countries particularly. Creme's organization is most active in anglophone countries such as the United States, Great Britain, Australia, and New Zealand. For some reason, he does not target Asian or Middle-Eastern countries. Go figure. :^)
Of course, if one succeeds in "defeating" Western culture, one rids oneself of the Judeo-Christian moral tradition and classical philosophy the foundation of modern science at a single stroke.
These people are insane, irrational....
And they are "hiding out, in the open."
Dear Padre, thanks so much for your excellent reply to mnehring's query.
Great catch, Mind-numbed Robot!
Hegelian dialectics applied to this question: Thesis (i.e., Good)Antithesis (i.e., Evil) resolve into "Synthesis" (whatever that might be) which becomes the next "thesis" invoking a new "antithesis," resolvable into a new "synthesis." And so this process continues ad infinitum.
But it never "resolves" into anything definite, let alone "objective." It is merely an operation of abstract mind detached from reality as experienced, and is, as such, relentlessly subjective. IMHO, it is the highest form of the fine art of "navel gazing" ever produced in human history.
But it has the dubious virtue of promising us that by use of this method, we can move "beyond" Good and Evil.... Marx and Engels evidently caught onto that aspect right away. Their resulting "systems" speak for themselves.
Thanks again, Mind-numbed Robot, for your excellent insight!
Indeed. They both seem to be working for the same "Master."
Thank you ever so much for writing!
Great insight, ronnyquest! I agree with you 100%.
The idea of a New World Order is hardly confined to the United Nations. As you note, there is also Jihadist, irredentist Islam making a bid for a new universal order to be consolidated at Tehran; and then there is George Soros and whatever cabal he's running. These are the obvious examples.
But note what these different efforts have in common: Both require the total destruction of the West as we know it in order to succeed.
Great insight, Dr. E!
The "builders of the Tower of Babel" have the temerity to imagine that they can "perfect" a shoddy world (God didn't do a very good job of making it, you see) and produce a New Eden all by themselves. With our slavish "cooperation," of course.
Thank you so much for sharing your excellent insights!
Indeed. I like this about him, too. Also his sense of humility and humor.
BTW, Dr. Godwin is not the only clinical psychologist I've read lately that holds much of the current development of this field in contempt.
Thanks so much, Matchett-PI, for the info re: Gagdad Bob.
R J Rushdoony wrote a book-length meditation on the political implications of trinitarian Christianity, The One and the Many. Is reality ultimately singular? If so, monism makes sense, and we must all be One, subsumed into the Greater Whole, that entity that Hegel called "God walking through history," The State. Is reality ultimately plural? If so, then anarchy is the only way to go -- the "state of nature," with every man for himself. Both answer, Rushdoony said, are wrong. Reality is ultimately both singular and plural, since God Himself is simultaneously One and Three. Given this model, Christian nations have managed to simultaneously support form and freedom, individual and corporate concerns.
This explains in part the unceasing warfare of the God-haters on the normal family. Something about the marital union tells us something about God. Man and wife are simultaneously two, and one. As they delight in each other, and in their union, the individuality of each is sharpened, heightened, appreciated. Not subsumed. Not suppressed.
The 19th amendment disenfranchised the family, even as the 17th disenfranchised the states. If you are a God-hating statist, your preferred deity must be One, and rival allegiances, rival citizenships must be obliterated. If you are a Christian, with a healthy disrespect for the righteousness of man, then you will work to nurture multiple spheres of jurisdiction -- family, church, local governments. Home schooling is the deliberate and conscious repudiating of statism, the assertion that our children belong to God, not Caesar.
Yep. Islam isn’t a religion. It’s an excuse to plunder.
I’d say at least 160 years . . . though maybe under different labels.
Some folks say for 400 years.
I don't know how the soul could ever be considered as "separate" from the body during its mortal existence. What I do know is based on observation: A corpse is clearly no longer a living body. Something has "gone out of it." And that something seems to be the difference between a living person and a dead body. Whatever that "something" is, its "departure" places the physical body fully and irreversibly under the control of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust."
Or am I observing an "illusion?"
A wise man once said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." I do not know what form the resurrection takes, although our tradition tells us that it is resurrection in the form of a "glorified" body. If so, I really don't see why a soul "separated" at death cannot in principle be "reconnected" to a glorified body when resurrection takes place. God alone knows these details. To me, it is not the manner or the form the resurrection takes that is important, but that it does take place. Jesus Christ Himself is our proof that this is so.
Of course there is ambiguity in the New Testament on this issue. As Francis Schaeffer put it, "God tells us truthfully, but not exhaustively." Which is to say that we do not fully know what God knows, nor can we. Ever.
I sense perhaps incorrectly that you believe the Christian doctrine of soul was distorted by the absorption of Greek thought into Christian theology, and that the only true doctrine of soul was pretty much buried by these "super-added" materials after the first or second century A.D. That is, only the very Early Church was the "authentic" church, and everything since is a distortion or deformation of authentic Christian belief and practice.
To pursue that line of thinking, however, would probably sink us into long-standing doctrinal disputes existing between the Roman Church and the various denominations of Reformed Church. I am not the least interested in engaging in any such dispute. Of all things, I pray God to heal the divisions of the holy Body of Christ, to stop Christians from "quarreling" with one another, so we can stand together to face our common Enemy who loves us to be engaged in such "disputes." They only prove that we have turned our faces away from our Lord....
As for myself, I just believe that Saint Justin Martyr was right: The Incarnation, Crucifixion, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ was the fulfillment, not only of the Patriarchs and Prophets of Judaism, but also of classical Greek philosophy.
Just some thoughts, dear ModelBreaker. FWIW. Thank you ever so much for your deeply sensitive and moving essay/post!
“That is, only the very Early Church was the “authentic” church, and everything since is a distortion or deformation of authentic Christian belief and practice.”
Well, not the very early Church per se—there were a lot of strange notions developed in the early church. And you can see much effort by Paul in the Epistles to get them straightened out. I meant Jesus Christ and the Apostles. I’m not a sola scriptura guy simply because the Holy Spirit is given to us. OTOH, John is really clear at the end of Revelation about what he thinks about adding to and subtracting from scripture. So I do believe that scripture is the number-one-with-a-bullet standard against which to judge doctrine. That keeps us from mistaking the Holy Spirit for our own ideas.
When we read scripture, we have to read it from the perspective of the authors, who were all second temple Jews and used words and ideas in that context. Especially Paul, Luke and James, who were fervent, observant and highly educated Jews. E.g., Paul spoke the language and thought the ideas of the Pharisees because he was a high-ranking Pharisee. Neither Paul nor the Pharisees (nor the Saducees) were very clear (or appeared to be very interested) in what happened between death and our rebirth with our resurrection bodies. (In fact, we have almost no information about what Jesus did between the crucifixion and the resurrection.)
The idea of a soul that goes down into the body at birth and then flits off at death is a Greek notion that was quite alien to second temple Jews. Those were not ideas the Apostles grew up with and we should be very careful about reading them into their words unless they are very clear about it.
So at least in our household, when my son asks what happens after we die, I tell him that eventually we are going to get wonderful resurrection bodies and live for eternity in the New Earth. On that, I think all Christian denominations should agree. But what happens between death and then is not at all clear.
It may be there is some conscious continuity between death and our resurrection. As you say, something leaves the body at death. And certainly the martyrs demanding justice before the throne suggests that there is continued consciousness at least for some of us. But whether we regain consciousness before our resurrection is not a question God chose to answer. “I don’t know” is a perfectly OK answer and I’m always suspicious about filling in big blank spaces like that with human doctrine.
Thanks for your response. I didn’t mean to write this much. That’s just how it came out.
Dear brother in Christ, are you dating this back to Darwin? Or maybe Marx? Or in the 400-year scenario, back to whom?
Please, please details!
BTW, it’s nice to communicate with someone who can use Martyr correctly as a proper noun and even quote him!
THANKS FOR YOUR PINGS AND FINE POSTS on this thread.
And the way it came out was just beautiful.
We have no quarrel in these matters, dear brother in Christ.
Which is good; since we both confess that we have no direct knowledge of them anyway.
So here is an idle question: Did not Paul also speak Greek? (That's a serious question for the simple reason that I don't know the answer to it.) Paul was not just a highly cultured Jew, he was also a Roman citizen and presumably aware of Rome's "intellectual culture," which was at the time largely classical Greek.
And don't forget it was Paul who first "gave up on" the Jews, and then took his evangelization directly to "the Greeks."
God's plan infallibly continues....
Thank you oh so very much for your outstanding essay/post, dear ModelBreaker!
The quotes I often post . . . one is from 160 years ago in I think a novel.
Another is from 110 years ago.
I don’t have the link back 400 years.
The 400 year reference is basically saying that the ruling wealthy families—most from the old Roman Empire . . . have maintained and greatly added to their wealth and POWER and have long been working toward a global tyrannical government in league with satan.
About 30 families control 90% or so of the world’s banks and about 30 families control 90% or so of the major media in the world.
Here’s some of the links on such quotes:
N.W.O. QUOTES POST, Latest QX post NWO QUOTES ON FR:
colorful NWO QUIXICATION of quotes:
You offered, “Something about the marital union tells us something about God.” I will have to disagree with the line of reasoning, because marriage union is likened to our relationship with The Christ (not in sexual terms of course), but the relation of God’s three aspects to Himself is not comparable to marriage.
Dear ModelBreaker, reflecting further on your last post, I think the question you actually proposed may have been: Is there continuity of personal consciousness between death and resurrection? But you already answered your own question, when you said: "In fact, we have almost no information about what Jesus did between the crucifixion and the resurrection."
To me, this is the real problem of the "God of the gaps." Because we cannot know what Jesus experienced in this interval, there is no possible way for us humans ever to explain what happens to us when we are in similar circumstances; that is "in the tomb."
The Good News Is: Our Lord rose and returned to us in a glorified body, and He was perfectly "conscious." He was Himself Son of God, Logos, Alpha and Omega. That is, the "tomb experience" did not defeat Him.
And we are made in His image and reflection....
All thanks and praise be unto God!