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To: johngrace
This is way above your pay grade

Channeling Obama now?

He is talking about within the context of Invincible Ignorance. Notice the word Plan in the statement not salvation. The plan is laid down for salvation.

Sorry, no. There is no reference to "ignorance", invincible or otherwise in the statement. It clearly states that Muslims and Catholics "adore" the same God. The Bible is clear that rejection of the Son equals rejection of the Father. Explicit in Islam is rejection of Jesus as God and Messiah.

What about the rare few who for no fault of their own either what background( Muslim or whatever) never heard or understood what this means.

That is where the sovereignty of God comes in. Those elect to salvation will be given the knowledge and faith necessary, normally through the Church in the form of missionaries, etc. Sometimes through extraordinary means such as dreams. Nowhere in the Bible is ignorance excused. If whole groups of people are secure in their salvation due to ignorance, then the worst thing to do would be to expose them to the Gospel and give them a chance to reject it and lose their salvation. On the contrary, the Bible conveys an urgency concerning spreading the Gospel to those elected to respond to it with faith.

Their conscience is judged

I have no doubt that many Muslim suicide bombers have ended their lives with a "clear" conscience, absolutely convinced they were doing God's work. I guess God (the same God of the Catholics) will reward that, right?
15 posted on 03/13/2011 12:54:52 PM PDT by armydoc
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To: armydoc
"Nowhere in the Bible is ignorance excused."

So now little children and babies go to hell. I believe they are ignorant of the situation. What about mentally challenged. What about people who do not just understand. I believe most do understand the Basic Gospel. Most will go to hell as stated in scripture who knowly reject. I knew people who out right did not care even if it was true when I witnessed.

If God can see whats inside a person's belief or unbelief for real. If he wants to forgive for ignorance who are you to say otherwise.

You just do not get it. It's still beyond your view. May God bless and Keep you safe. Praise Jesus! Thy Kingdom Come! Thy will be Done!

16 posted on 03/13/2011 1:11:31 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: armydoc

Seems to me everything should be excused in your soteriology.

Whether you’re saved or doomed is determined before you’re born.

You cannot choose to accept or reject Christ.

How can someone be held responsible if they cannot act otherwise?


35 posted on 06/27/2011 4:25:52 PM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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