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To: annalex; GonzoII
Christians have been given the Holy Scriptures as our sole guide

If that were so, shouldn't the above assertion be itself someplace in the Holy Scripture?

Expected straw man argument. Your own religion teaches that the Holy Scriptures are divinely inspired and as the Word of God they are given to Christians for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (II Timothy 3:15-17)

Therefore, the argument should be about what Scripture teaches about this so-called Purgatory, NOT whether or not Scripture is relevant. So, based upon that, the question remains "What does Scripture teach about Purgatory?". The answer is NOT ANYTHING. The verses quoted in an attempt to prove the concept by Scripture is obviously lame. Every one given is never in support of such a place. In fact, Scripture very clearly teaches that there is never any need for such a place.

We know from many Scriptures that ALL have sinned, ALL are in need of a Savior. Proverbs 20:9 says, "Who can say, 'I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin'?" Romans 3:23 says, "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

We also know that without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sins. Hebrews 9:22-23 says, "In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Leviticus 17:11 says, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul."

And lastly, we know that through the blood of Jesus Christ, we are cleansed from all sin. Hebrews 9:22-28 is very clear, "In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

We know that there is no other "place of cleansing" but Jesus Christ and that we are made holy, sanctified, justified, made righteous by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. He gave his life in place of ours, and by his sacrifice - his once for all sacrifice - we may enter Heaven when we die. We have been cleansed of ALL sin, there is no need for an intermediate place for further cleansing. To teach this (Purgatory) is to ignore Scripture and the entire purpose for the cross. That is why we can count on the Holy Scriptures for the Holy Scriptures are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (II Timothy 3:15)

25 posted on 03/13/2011 4:43:28 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums; GonzoII
Your own religion teaches that the Holy Scriptures are divinely inspired and as the Word of God they are given to Christians for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (II Timothy 3:15-17)

Therefore, the argument should be about what Scripture teaches about this so-called Purgatory, NOT whether or not Scripture is relevant

The Holy Scripture indeed equips the Catholics to do every good work and especially to teach. But the Holy Scripture is not the only source of such teaching, the Catholic Church as a whole is. It is of course relevant what the scripture says about the Purgatory, but one should not expect a treatise on Purgatory embedded in the scripture, just like there is no treatise about the Trinity embedded in the Holy Scripture. As the authors say,

The Catholic Church has Scriptural authority for whatever doctrines she teaches, insofar as she was appointed to be the teacher of mankind by Christ. It would not really matter whether a given doctrine were contained in Scripture or not. While everything in the Bible is true, not everything true is in the Bible.

I am waiting to hear an answer: "shouldn't the assertion that Holy Scriptures is our sole guide, be itself someplace in the Holy Scripture?"

"What does Scripture teach about Purgatory?". The answer is NOT ANYTHING. [proceeds quoting much scripture about Christ Our Savior]

The authors of the article showed you the relevant scripture. An intellifgent conversation could happen if it commented on the relevant scripture rather than quoting something you think is relevant and ignoring the article about which you attempt to opine.

We know that there is no other "place of cleansing" but Jesus Christ and that we are made holy, sanctified, justified, made righteous by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ. He gave his life in place of ours, and by his sacrifice - his once for all sacrifice - we may enter Heaven when we die. We have been cleansed of ALL sin, there is no need for an intermediate place for further cleansing

This is a non-sequitur. Christ indeed alone sanctifies, but this doesn't speak to the issue whether the sancification happens on earth only or also in the Purgatory. If you read the article closely, you would have found this point addressed:

855. Would not the blood of Christ shed for all sinners cleanse their souls?
It could do so, did souls make full and perfect use of it. But the precious blood of Christ does not cleanse the souls of men in spite of themselves. Men have to do their part by sincere repentance and by the yielding of their souls to Christ in faith and love. But there are degrees of repentance, and faith, and love. Granted perfect repentance, and faith, and love, a soul participates fully in the effects of the precious blood of Christ. All sins are then expiated, and no further expiation in purgatory will be required. But some souls have very imperfect repentance, and faith, and love; while others have none at all. The precious blood of Christ does its work in a soul proportionately to the dispositions of that soul.

26 posted on 03/14/2011 5:41:47 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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