Posted on 03/21/2011 10:34:29 AM PDT by count-your-change
Where was Christ for the three days following his death? It seems a simple enough question and it is. The answer is simple too. One might turn to Matthew 27:59, 60, where it says a rich man, Joseph, took Jesus' body and had it put in Joseph's prepared tomb and then a large stone was rolled in place to close up the cave like tomb.
So why would there be a question? Well, before Jesus died he had been asked to be remembered by a criminal hanging nearby. Said this man:
"Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." By the request he shows he does expect, he has faith, that despite the present situation, that Jesus would indeed, 'come into his kingdom'.
But it is Jesus' answer that some find hard to understand or explain:
"He replied, "Truly I tell you today you will be with me in paradise". Notice that I left out the comma which does not appear in the Greek. It is the placement of that comma that brings the question of whether Jesus was saying either "today you will be with me" or "today I am saying to you", two very different things. Most translators place the comma before "today" in line their beliefs about Christ's condition during those three days, not according to any necessity occasioned by the Greek grammar. Is such placement, and the meaning it imparts, justified according to what the rest of the Scriptures say? No, not at all. How so?
Jesus said he, "the son of man" was to "be killed and on the third day raised up (resurrected)". (Luke 9:22) and Peter confirms that this is exactly what occurred at Acts 10:40,41 saying Christ 'rose from the dead'.
Earlier Peter had interpreted Psalm 16:10 as fitting the Christ, saying Christ had gone into Hades, or hell as some translations have it, as had David, to await God's resurrection of them. (Acts 2:29-36) David though, would have to wait until that much broader resurrection Paul spoke of at Acts 24:15, the "resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous".
But what of the criminal and the promise made to him? Did he die and go to heaven, hell, where?
He had not been born again. He had not repented or been baptized or become a disciple and shown his faith by his works as had those Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 11. He, like David, would have to wait for that resurrection from the memorial tombs (John 5:28, 29) of the "righteous and unrighteous" sometime in the future.
Only then, when Christ was "in his kingdom", could this criminal expect to be in "paradise". Mean while he was dead, unconscious, (Eccl. 9:4-6), what Christ compared to sleep.(John 11:11)
I think that you meant the 'rich man' in your response....
In answer to the original question as to where was Christ during the 3 day period, God exists outside of time and space. Thus the question is flawed.
Nah, it was too good of photo-op to pass up in that it reinforces the media’s lie that Obama is a Christian while stroking Obama’s ego by playing upon Obama’s Lefturd, solipsistic belief that he, himself is the One, the holy of holies, God-like in nature:
“[sin is] being out of alignment with my values.” - Obama
“Uh, yeah, I guess I do. It’s not formal, me getting on my knees. I think I have an ongoing conversation with God. I think throughout the day, I’m constantly asking myself questions about what I’m doing, why am I doing it.” - Obama
-—in other words, Obama sets his own standards for what sin is. And, the god he prays daily to for answers is himself.
So, the real question would be: How could he NOT pass up the opportunity?
Cheers
Whoever put him in that cave...or said he had died or took him off the cross. I don’t know exactly who. How did they determine he was lifeless and actually dead? Just wondering. You know how they used to bury people alive all the time in the old days.... not knowing their heart was still beating.
Jehovah's Witness.
Correct, comma boy?
Where's the invite to Kingdom Hall and a copy of "The Watchtower"?
Was that in the Bible? I started reading it once in a while...but at the beginning....so I don’t know...
That that is is that that is not is not that that is is not that so
Yes, you’re right. It was the rich man who was in Hell. Sorry about that. That’s the problem with getting old, you cut&paste the scripture, so that it’s right in front of you, and then rely on your failing memory to re-tell the story! LOL!
Cheers
The day of his death was Day One. The next day was Day Two. The day of his resurrection, and of its discovery by the women that came to visit the tomb, was Day Three. On the third day is not the same as three days (72 hours) later, which seems to trouble many minds.
Minute by minute, day by day chronology, is a matter of much significance to the human mind and experience. In other realms, perhaps not so much.
Are we not told that He visited the souls in prison (hell)? I have a recollection of having heard that,but cannot find it written by a cursory search.
Where that ambiguity exists because we do use commas and all the nuances of the koine’ Greek are not known, we can only rely on the whole of the Scriptures.
Where or if a comma is added will be determined by what the translator believes the meaning of Luke 23:42, 43 is.
Christ was crucified by the Romans who knew well how to kill using that method. Being nailed on a cross meant the method of death was suffocation. The weight of the body restricted the ability to breath. The victim had to stand pushing against the nails through the ankles to free the pressure on the diaphragm to breath. So the victim would be in agony going back and forth between the nails through the wrists/palms and the nails through the ankles/feet.
If it went on too long, because the Romans grew bored, they reached up and broke the legs of the victims causing them to hang by the wrists and suffocate. In Christ's case they did not break is legs, but pierced his side with a spear.
These were professionals. They knew he was dead, because they did it all the time. This was just another day in the week for them. The crucifixion wasn't unique to the Romans, this was just another work day for them. The week before they were crucifying people and the next week they were doing it too.
Joseph had to claim the body from the Romans. Christ was clearly dead, as were the two thieves with him.
And thus so was the criminal that Jesus had spoken to. Sheol was the name for the grave of Psalm 16:10, what Peter called Hades in Greek. Or hell in English. No paradise there.
Yes. Here are a few pertinent passages. His death and resurrection are mentioned in all 4 Gospels.
Joh 19:32-38
(32) Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
(33) But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
(34) But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
(35) And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
(36) For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
(37) And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
(38) And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
Mat 27:50-59
(50) Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(51) And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(52) And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(53) And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(54) Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
(55) And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him:
(56) Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s children.
(57) When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple:
(58) He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.
(59) And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
Mar 15:37-46
(37) And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.
(38) And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.
(39) And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
(40) There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
(41) (Who also, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered unto him;) and many other women which came up with him unto Jerusalem.
(42) And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
(43) Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
(44) And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
(45) And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph.
(46) And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre.
Luk 23:42-55
(42) And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
(43) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
(44) And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
(45) And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
(46) And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
(47) Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
(48) And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
(49) And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
(50) And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counsellor; and he was a good man, and a just:
(51) (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
(52) This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
(53) And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
(54) And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
(55) And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
Eph 4:4-10
(4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
(5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
(6) One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
(8) Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
(10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Mar 8:31
(31) And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
For my money, this is the crux of the issue. Everything else is fluff.
I don't care if I'm in limbo when I die, until the 2nd coming, or rapture, or 1000-year-reign. I don't care if I go straight to heaven to reside with Him. It's not my decision, and there's nothing I can do to influence it. It's God's game, and He makes the rules.
I'm just grateful to be a part of it, and that Jesus died so that I might live.
Just think - that statue could never be built here, by law.
I have often heard hell described as being cut off from the Presence of God. It includes a great deal of real torment so I don't minimize the actual place but the real hell is being without God. Going with this definition, I think it interesting to believe that the thief went with Christ on His mission to Abraham's bosom. There, all were treated to Paradise in the Presence of their Savior.
May God bless you.
And Jesus is true God and true man, correct?
The second person of the Holy Trinity, correct?
Lazarus in Hell? My Bible says he was comforted in Abrahams Bosom...the Rich man is not named because he us absent from the Book of Life
Make that John 10:7 in my reply not 10:10. thanks!
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