Biblically Optimistic and Gospel-Based
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Posted on 03/22/2011 6:36:53 AM PDT by topcat54
Like [Hal] Lindsey and many who preceded and followed him in pronouncing their generation as “terminal,” [Jeff] Lasseigne is constrained by his dispensational hermeneutic to offer a worldview that is really an “upper-world worldview”:
Or as John MacArthur said, “Man’s efforts to bring about a better world . . . amount to little more than rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic to give everyone a better view as the ship sinks” (196).[3]The “rapture” has been a convenient escape hatch for Christians. When times worsened, the “rapture” was preached with great vitality. Millions were assured that before all hell breaks loose that they would be taken to heaven to watch the Great Tribulation from up above the heavens so bright.
Lasseigne manufactures a “rapture” theology in Revelation 4:1–2. John told to “come up here” is thought to be a “symbolic picture of the rapture” (76). This is a common interpretation among dispensationalists. Lasseigne isn’t the first one to use it. Tim LaHaye made it the cornerstone of his Revelation rapture theology. For those who claim to interpret prophecy literally, Revelation 4:1-2 says nothing about the church being taken to heaven prior to a seven-year tribulation period, but LaHaye argues for it anyway even though the phrase “seven years” does not appear in Revelation.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanvision.org ...
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Christ didn't escape suffering...so why should we? Are we greater or more deserving than Christ?
“Christ didn’t escape suffering...so why should we? Are we greater or more deserving than Christ? “
No we are not greater than Christ. What does that have to do with this?
Christ died for our sins, so that we would not have to.
later
It has to do with pain n suffering and being jet packed out of the scene. Ain’t gonna happen.
It is because Christ died and rose that we will be able to endure the coming tribulations, not hide like a bunch of cowards in some rapturous heaven.
I still love what a young Christian Jew used to say:(Back in the early sixties)
“Some people tell me we are in the tribulation now; others tell me we are in the Millennium.”
“It it’s the tribulation, its not as bad as I thought it would be; if it’s the Millennium, it is not as good as I thought it would be.”
We can all be assured: He (Jesus Christ) will return again,
for He said: “I go to prepare a place for you, and if I go to prepare a place for you, I will return again, and receive you unto Myself.”
“As it was in the day of Noe, so shall it be in the day of the coming of the Son of Man....”
I think that is up to God, not what we think or interpret.
To me, anything is possible with God, but it is my prayer to serve Him to bring all home who are meant to be His children, that are written in the book of life, if that means stay and suffer, so be it, if that means be ratured as it would be my Father’s will, so be it..God’s will be done, not mine..
The pre-trib “rapture” of the church is a theological necessity for dispensationalists—”the product of a deduction from one’s overall system of theology”—so God can once again deal with national Israel. But word counts leave us with something of a dilemma since the word Israel only appears once after the supposed rapture of the church, and not until Revelation 7:4! One would think that if the church is in view in the first three chapters because the words church and churches are used nineteen times, then shouldn’t we expect to find the word Israel used more than once after chapter three if this entire seven-year period is about God’s dealings with a future national Israel?
“It has to do with pain n suffering and being jet packed out of the scene. Ain’t gonna happen.”
The Bible says believers will be gathered. It doesn’t use the word rapture, it also doesn’t say that believers will all be forced to live through the tribulation.
“It is because Christ died and rose that we will be able to endure the coming tribulations, not hide like a bunch of cowards in some rapturous heaven.”
Christ died for one reason, so that we would not have to. Not so we could avoid tribulation but so we could go to heaven. Going to heaven is not cowardly. You’re making it some kind of ego based decision, its not.
Doesn’t matter one bit for salvation but is a convenient tool for the enemy to use to keep the body from working together to serve The Lords purposes. Put on the Armor of God, become the Army of God, stop arguing about irrelevant and keep working on pulling Logs put of your eyes and get to the Lords business of feeding his Sheep and spreading the Good News. Time is short. :-)
Anyone who goes around talking about the signs of the times and that certainty that Jesus is coming back Real Soon Now® is obviously confused.
So... Jesus was raptured?
Spiritually, yes. However, where He leads, we will follow... to the Cross. St Thomas Aquinas noted that what happens to the head (Christ) will also happen to the body (Church). The Church will suffer for the glory of God as Christ did.
“Spiritually, yes. However, where He leads, we will follow.”
Suffering does not lead to salvation. Acceptance and faith in Christ is the only way down that path.
...
For those who claim to interpret prophecy literally, Revelation 4:1-2 says nothing about the church being taken to heaven prior to a seven-year tribulation period
"Come up here" is John being brought into the heavenly court of God, to receive a message to deliver. This is the experience of the OT prophets, here recounted in much greater detail.
I do agree, to an extent but I truly and firmly believe with all my heart and God saved soul that the rapture is a tool of satan and will be employed by the anti-Christ to deceive many. So, we don’t waste our time on these folks? I know it says that many will fall for the baloney, but don’t we have an obligation to speak the truth to them? If the bad times happen in my lifetime, I’m going down swinging, proclaiming God n Christ as I die. Why would I want to chillax in a heaven during all that? That’s like pulling all your best players out of the game at the most critical point. Not that I’m saying I’m a good player-good grief no!-I am weak, but He’s strong. But I hope you get what I’m saying there. The theory of rapture makes no sense to me.
Maybe that last sentence there is all I should have said to begin with. Oh well, won’t be the 1st time.
I get where you are coming from and know folks who argue just as convincingly from the other side of this. I love you both and know you do it from your heart. I’m undecided but suspect I’ll know One way or another soon enough if I’m seeing the sign if the times correctly - be at peace, and safety , Gods guidance and blessings on you and yours....
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