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The Christ of Mormonism (Real Mormonism)
Mormon Coffee (Mormonism Research Ministry) ^ | March 14, 2011 | Aaron Shafovaloff

Posted on 03/25/2011 9:19:12 AM PDT by Colofornian

Written by a local ex-Mormon Christian friend of mine: —

This is the Christ of Mormonism:

1. He lives as a humanoid god on a star near Kolob along with his father god, bound by the physical world; he does not transcend the material.

2. He is the brother of satan.

3. He had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth.

4. He offers his “grace” only to those who work hard enough.

5. He is not from everlasting to everlasting, but was created a finite time ago by his father god, who in turn was also created by his own father god, who in turn was created by his own father god, so on and so forth

6. He is not the greatest being possible.

7. He is finite.

8. His blood is not powerful enough to wipe away any sin.

9. He aided his father in creating earth by organizing already existing matter; he is not capable of creating things out of nothing.

10. He must submit to a moral law that existed before he did.

11. You can one day become just like him.

This is the Christ of the Bible:

1. He is a spirit being that transcends space and time.

2. He is the brother of no creature; He is God, from everlasting to everlasting. No one can claim kinship with Him except those He purchased for Himself on the cross. And He is not the same type of creature they are. He is not a creature, He is God.

3. Jesus is the Author of Salvation; to say that He needed to earn His salvation is absurdity.

4. He offers His sovereign grace to whomever He sovereignly chooses; we are all tainted by sin and vile in His holy eyes. Therefore, no one is more worthy than any other human being. Thus, His grace that He offers is given unconditionally. His grace is true grace, a beautiful gift.

5. He is from everlasting to everlasting. He was never created, and Has been in relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit forever.

6. He is the greatest being possible, the Most High God. There is no one like Him and there is no one who will ever be anything like Him.

7. He is infinite, both in essence and in His divine perfections.

8. His blood is powerful enough to wipe away any sin, regardless of heinousness and duration. The only sin that cannot be forgive is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; and this is not because the blood of Christ is not powerful enough to wash it away, but because God has so sovereignly decreed that all persons who blaspheme the Holy Ghost should not receive forgiveness.

9. He created everything that exists out of nothing by the mere word of His mouth.

10. There is no external law that He submits to; He is the Author and the Source of the Law.

11. No one can ever come near to obtaining the glory and excellency of Christ.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Ministry/Outreach; Other Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: bible; christianjihad; evangelicalbigots; jesuschrist; jihad; lds; mormon; notthiscrapagain
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From the article: 3. He had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth.
4. He offers his “grace” only to those who work hard enough.
5. He is not from everlasting to everlasting, but was created a finite time ago by his father god, who in turn was also created by his own father god, who in turn was created by his own father god, so on and so forth
6. He is not the greatest being possible.
...
9. He aided his father in creating earth by organizing already existing matter; he is not capable of creating things out of nothing.
10. He must submit to a moral law that existed before he did.

On #4, those who don't work hard enough don't get to live with God the Father forever...that relationship for Mormons is 100% all about works!

You can see this is no "ultimate" being if he wasn't god from eternity...if the moral law existed before Him...if He can't create anything out of nothing...and is the son of a being who isn't an ultimate divinity, either.

1 posted on 03/25/2011 9:19:15 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

Yep


2 posted on 03/25/2011 9:27:00 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian; All

Lurker beware. Although the links says “Real Mormonism” it is being posted by a well known anti-Mormon propagandist.

Read it but then research it from both sides. All is not always as it seems.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up in anti-Mormon propaganda can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/


3 posted on 03/25/2011 9:29:17 AM PDT by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
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To: Colofornian

I vowed long ago never to involve myself with the truly nasty anti-Mormon bigotry posted routinely on these threads but the distortions and lies posted here compel me to make this post.

I will attempt no rebuttal nor will I answer any posting that wants to contend about these matters. Contention is from Satan - not God.

Anyone wishing to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints should read the materials first hand, get to know some typical Mormons, peruse the many web sites both for and against and then after prayer, meditation and long pondering make up their own mind either for or against. If for then by all means look into it deeper. If against then drop it.


4 posted on 03/25/2011 9:30:44 AM PDT by scory
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To: scory; All
...the distortions and lies posted here compel me to make this post. I will attempt no rebuttal nor will I answer any posting that wants to contend about these matters.

Translation: I, Scory, go around making false accusations -- accusing people of lying -- but I offer no details. I as a Mormon simply engage in vague accusations minus any proof. Hey, why should I?...We Mormons never offered any to begin with...just rely upon subjective burning bosom feelings...So why should we start now?

5 posted on 03/25/2011 9:39:39 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: scory
The interesting thing about your statement is that you do not defend the documented lds believe statements you attack the poster. So either you are unsure what lds really teach or you actually believe the blasphemy.

Here is the bottom line you can believe the Eternal Word of God Almighty or you can believe the words of Joseph Smith a liar, thief, adulterer, pedophile, flim flam man, con artist, a man who claimed he will decide who gets into heaven, a man who claimed he would be the next mohammad, a man who claimed that god was created, a man who clained that jesus was the spirit brother of satan, a man who believe you to could be god...........

satan lied to Eve - you to can be god
satan lied to Joseph Smith - you to can be god
Joseph Smith lied to everyone - you to can be god

6 posted on 03/25/2011 9:42:57 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Colofornian
Holy underwear!
7 posted on 03/25/2011 9:43:34 AM PDT by fungoking (Tis a blessing to live in the Ozarks.)
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To: scory
"...but the distortions and lies posted here..."

Point them out and rebut them or go home.

The juvenile tactic being attempted here is typical of someone who is all hat and no cattle.

8 posted on 03/25/2011 9:44:50 AM PDT by SZonian (July 27, 2010. Life begins anew.)
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To: scory

“Contention is from Satan - not God.”

Famous Satanic contentious people in scripture.

Moses, throwing down the tablets and going after the rebellious Israelites at Sinai.
David, taking on Goliath.
Elijah, going after the priests at Carmel.
Malachi, rebuking lazy Israel.
Isaiah, rebuking the Jews in Is. 1.
Jesus, throwing out the money changers.
Jesus, rebuking the Pharisees 7 times in Mt. 23.
Stephen, going after the Jews in Acts 7.
Paul, rebuking Peter for being 2 faced in Galatians.
Peter, rebuking Simon in Acts 8 for wanting to buy the Spirit.

We could go on, but you get the idea. If someone is teaching falsehood, contention is the very medicine he needs.


9 posted on 03/25/2011 9:46:04 AM PDT by lurk
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To: Paragon Defender
Yes, and from PDs links, you my dear lurkers will see that everything said is real in Mormonism...

So thanks for the further substantiation PD!

10 posted on 03/25/2011 9:46:48 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: scory

This is not bigotry.

There is nothing in the description of the Mormon jesus here that is untrue.

These points are the real actual beliefs of mormons everywhere. These are CORE tenants of Mormonism.

How can you say that is bigotry if it is what they actually belive? Do you say that because you don’t want anyone to know these beliefs before they have been prepared? Or as the Mormon church teaches their missionaries: “don’t give meat before milk”


11 posted on 03/25/2011 9:46:48 AM PDT by SpringtoLiberty (Liberty is on the march!)
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To: Paragon Defender
Yes, and from PDs links, you my dear lurkers will see that everything said is real in Mormonism...

So thanks for the further substantiation PD!

12 posted on 03/25/2011 9:46:55 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: scory
Anyone wishing to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints should read the materials first hand,

I've done that.

get to know some typical Mormons,

My neighbors are Mormon

peruse the many web sites both for and against

I've read through most of the official Mormon web sites--See PD's post above.

and then after prayer, meditation and long pondering make up their own mind either for or against.

I've still got some questions no Mormon has been willing to answer. Would you answer them?

13 posted on 03/25/2011 9:48:29 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Paragon Defender

To the local lurker...do keep in mind this particular post to the article represents those within the Mormon Community who work very hard to squelch the truth about the Mormon Organization....thus diverting people from the truth that is in Christ to a counterfeit Christianity which uses His name to justify their far out belief systems...which directly oppose the Christian faith.


14 posted on 03/25/2011 9:50:25 AM PDT by caww
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To: scory
I vowed long ago never to involve myself with the truly nasty anti-Mormon bigotry posted routinely on these threads but the distortions and lies posted here compel me to make this post.

You make a public charge of distortion and bigotry.

Is it Mormon SOP to bear false witness and run?

Seems to be.

And I understand why.

Emotional appeal is all there is.

That is not from God.

He created minds for a reason.

15 posted on 03/25/2011 9:50:42 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Colofornian

Following tradition...


16 posted on 03/25/2011 9:52:20 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Colofornian

Let’em be today. Jimmer lost.


17 posted on 03/25/2011 9:52:54 AM PDT by Lou Budvis (Refudiate 0bama '12)
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To: ShadowAce

As we see from your post they recruit by association with ‘their people’ and ‘literature distribution’....then will place a Book of Mormon in your hands to deter you from the scriptures. This is very typical to a cult religion and how they pracctice.

You would do well to re-read the article posted in how they view God....if you cannot see the truth there...you may very well be already blinded.


18 posted on 03/25/2011 9:54:26 AM PDT by caww
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To: scory

Can you please specify what the distortions and lies in the post are? SPECIFICALLY, not send me to 15 web sites to read up on LDS? Thank you.


19 posted on 03/25/2011 9:55:50 AM PDT by NEMDF
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To: svcw
I'm no Mormon. I personally think Joe Smith made it all up. But conventional, trinitarian Christianity is as much the product of human invention as are the doctrines of Mormonism.

"The Emperor Constantine, who lifted Christianity into power, murdered his wife Fausta, and his eldest son Crispus, the same year that he convened the Council of Nice to decide whether Jesus Christ was a man or the Son of God. The council decided that Christ was consubstantial with the father. This was in the year 325. We are thus indebted to a wife-murderer for settling the vexed question of the divinity of the Savior.

Theodosius called a council at Constantinople in 381, and this council decided that the Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father. Theodosius, the younger, assembled another council at Ephesus to ascertain who the Virgin Mary really was, and it was solemnly decided in the year 431 that she was the Mother of God.

In 451 it was decided by a council held at Chalcedon, called together by the Emperor Marcian, that Christ had two natures -- the human and divine. In 680, in another general council, held at Constantinople, convened by order of Pognatius, it was also decided that Christ had two wills, and in the year 1274 it was decided at the Council of Lyons, that the Holy Ghost proceeded not only from the Father, but from the Son as well.

Had it not been for these councils, we might have been without a Trinity even unto this day. When we take into consideration the fact that a belief in the Trinity is absolutely essential to salvation, how unfortunate it was for the world that this doctrine was not established until the year 1274. Think of the millions that dropped into hell while these questions were being discussed."
- Robert G. Ingersoll

20 posted on 03/25/2011 9:56:38 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (When you buy stocks, you're betting on Bernanke)
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To: scory; svcw; ejonesie22; SpringtoLiberty; ShadowAce; lurk; fungoking; SZonian; caww; NEMDF; ...
ALL: #2, #5, #11 is more obvious standard Mormon doctrine.

Here's the documentation for #3 claim: [The Mormon jesus] had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth:

"Christ is a saved being (Lds apostle Bruce McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)

“Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth ‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being, one who had placed all things beneath his feet. ‘I am Alpha and Omega,’ he said, ‘Christ the Lord; yea, even I am he, the beginning and the end, the Redeemer of the world. I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment.’ (D&C 19:1-2.)” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)

(Please also see McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said Jesus "Needs salvation"...”Came to earth to work out His own salvation)

21 posted on 03/25/2011 9:58:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: scory
I don't know why the abuse of another’s religion is accepted on FR. I'm not a Mormon. I understand why a caring Christian might want to proselytize a Mormon just like I understand why young Mormons knock on my door. They think they know the Truth and want to share it. That is a good thing.

I know that FR considers Romney the antichrist. He's a Mormon, of course. Maybe that is why.

It is ugly.

God bless you and yours.

22 posted on 03/25/2011 9:58:49 AM PDT by Tread EZ (God bless you and yours)
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To: scory
"Contention is from Satan - not God." Jude 1-3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. contention n 1. a struggling between opponents; competition 2. dispute in an argument (esp in the phrase bone of contention) 3. (Literature / Rhetoric) a point asserted in argument [from Latin contentiō exertion, from contendere to contend] Collins English Dictionary
23 posted on 03/25/2011 10:00:33 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: All; scory; svcw; ejonesie22; SpringtoLiberty; ShadowAce; lurk; fungoking; SZonian; caww; NEMDF; ...
ALL: What about #8? That the Mormon jesus' blood is not powerful enough to wipe away any sin.

The Mormon "jesus" really didn't die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature...cause we discover the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute.

The LDS second article of faith, which every True-Believing Mormon knows, reads: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression."

The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."

24 posted on 03/25/2011 10:04:43 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: svcw

“Contention is from Satan - not God.”

Jude 1-3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Contention
n 1. a struggling between opponents; competition 2. dispute in an argument (esp in the phrase bone of contention) 3. (Literature / Rhetoric) a point asserted in argument [from Latin contenti & exertion, from contendere to contend] Collins English Dictionary


25 posted on 03/25/2011 10:05:39 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: Colofornian

“He lives as a humanoid god on a star near Kolob along with his father god, bound by the physical world; he does not transcend the material.”

In this case, and being as how these two gods have been quite involved with this physical planet earth in the past, I would venture to say these two are watching with great excitement the coming election here on earth.

Not only these two gods, but I venture to say all of the inhabitants of Kolob are pulling for their man, Romney. I’m sure Kolob likes their TV star Glenn Beck too.

(severe sarcasm)


26 posted on 03/25/2011 10:06:41 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: Tread EZ

Some of these knuckleheads seem to forget about that the Constitution overrides the Bible as the law of the land.. Especially the 1st amendment..


27 posted on 03/25/2011 10:07:07 AM PDT by KevinDavis (Where is Code Pink?)
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To: Tread EZ

Interestingly, it’s both Mormons and Catholics that take the most abuse of FR...but it’s not surprising considering that the conservative base is composed of a large number of Evangelicals who hold both those groups in equal “regard”...magritte


28 posted on 03/25/2011 10:08:38 AM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: SZonian; All

Point them out and rebut them or go home.


Thus sayeth the Szonian! Rule maker of all he surveyeth!

not


Btw.... I forgot to point out something in the original propaganda-post. I have made the correction to the statement below:

This is the Christ of the Bible in the way that we choose to interpret/believe it to be:


29 posted on 03/25/2011 10:12:38 AM PDT by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
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To: Bidimus1
And mormonISM is blasphemy, what is your point?
30 posted on 03/25/2011 10:12:49 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: magritte
What is an evangelical?
31 posted on 03/25/2011 10:13:59 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Paragon Defender

The lds jesus is NOT the Jesus of the Bible.


32 posted on 03/25/2011 10:15:01 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Paragon Defender

Mormons believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God...as long as it is plagiarized correctly."

33 posted on 03/25/2011 10:15:15 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: Notary Sojac
What is your point? What you posted is nearly identical to what lds post, are you sure you are not really lds or a defender of lds?
34 posted on 03/25/2011 10:18:43 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: scory

My Christian religion actually teaches that we MUST contend. So therefore I do.

Why should your religious teachings trump mine?


35 posted on 03/25/2011 10:22:56 AM PDT by colorcountry (Comforting lies are not your friends. Painful truths are not your enemies.)
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To: Bidimus1

If they’re not willing to obey God’s command through Jude 3, perhaps they will obey Joseph Smith in Doctrine & Covenants 71.7:

“Wherefore debate thy cause with thy neighbor, and inasmuch as ye are faithful, their shame shall be made manifest.”

If they don’t believe in Joseph Smith enough to obey him, why should we?

Just askin’.


36 posted on 03/25/2011 10:28:25 AM PDT by FNU LNU (Nothing runs like a Deere, nothing smells like a john)
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To: colorcountry; scory
Why should your religious teachings trump mine the Word of God?
37 posted on 03/25/2011 10:29:38 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: svcw
Personally, I am an atheist.

But I think that the Mormons make a reasonable point when they say "Our church doctrines were arrived at via councils composed of men, and as a matter of fact, so were yours."

One could be a Nestorian, or a Socinian, or an Arian, and have an equal right to claim the title of "Christian". It's just that those beliefs failed to win the approval of the Roman and Catholic power structures and therefore have gone down in history as "heresies".

38 posted on 03/25/2011 10:31:04 AM PDT by Notary Sojac (When you buy stocks, you're betting on Bernanke)
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To: Bidimus1

Contention is from Satan because we all are born with Original Sin and it is the nature of man to have to find the Truth. Truth will have to be searched for....and that is where all contention comes into existence....what is the Truth? Of course, Satan tries to obscure the Truth and twist the Truth so all contention surfaces because Satan is trying to prevent our Salvation. So yes, Contention is from Satan.

It does not follow that argument is evil—not if it is to find the Truth. Debate and argument are necessary to arrive at the Truth—that has occurred throughout Christian history. That is what is so great about the Christian religion....and what led to all the creativity and genius and invention—the Socratic idea—that the obvious is not so obvious and that introspection and argument are necessary to find the Truth.

Are you trying to say that people who disagree with an idea are to shut up because there is no absolute Truth? That is total rubbish and unChristian.

That would lead to mediocrity, nihilism and stagnant societies who could never find the truth in anything.....science or God.


39 posted on 03/25/2011 10:31:38 AM PDT by savagesusie
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To: Notary Sojac

***- Robert G. Ingersoll****

The word of GOD he hated lives on while he has rotted in his grave.


40 posted on 03/25/2011 10:34:13 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Visit the TOMMY FRANKS MILITARY MUSEUM in HOBART, OK. I did, well worth it!)
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To: svcw

In general, born-again Christians...they tend to be more literalist and absolute on certain points and obviously promote the 4 gospels more than a lot of other religions do...not a bad thing, just how it is...you obviously know this, why are you inquiring??...magritte


41 posted on 03/25/2011 10:34:37 AM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: magritte; Jim Robinson
it’s not surprising considering that the conservative base is composed of a large number of Evangelicals

Really?If you are going to make that kind of comparison to FR, please post the info provided by JR that states the religious leanings of the "conservative base" on FR is composed of Evangelicals.

I'd be interested in how this information is compiled and why you would have access to it.

42 posted on 03/25/2011 10:35:01 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: Notary Sojac

Well, an atheists defending mormonISM that may be a first. (I can not think of anything to say here that would not be sarcastic, so I wont.)


43 posted on 03/25/2011 10:37:18 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Tread EZ; scory

****I don’t know why the abuse of another’s religion is accepted on FR.***

Christians are not the ones who started this fight back in the 1830s when a backwoods rube walked out of the woods claiming he had seen God and angels and a gold book no one has ever seen while claiming everyone better believe what he says or he will stand in the door to heaven and keep all the non believers in his gold book and other tall tales out.

Joseph Smith threw down the gauntlet and real CHRISTIANS picked it up, now Joe’s people whine and run.


44 posted on 03/25/2011 10:39:12 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Visit the TOMMY FRANKS MILITARY MUSEUM in HOBART, OK. I did, well worth it!)
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To: magritte
Huh? Actually I don't know that. I do not and have not attended any church service who's focus was primarily the four (going to assume that you mean Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) Gospels.
45 posted on 03/25/2011 10:41:13 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: magritte

Interestingly, the Catholic church does not accept Mormon baptism.

Interestingly, Mormon leaders are historically anti-Catholic.

Interestingly, those who are called anti-Mormon on FR aren't connected with those who are called anti-Catholic.

Interesting what people can call interesting.

46 posted on 03/25/2011 10:42:37 AM PDT by delacoert
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To: magritte; Tread EZ

***Interestingly, it’s both Mormons and Catholics that take the most abuse of FR.***

Mnay years ago Madaline Murray O’Hair was on Larry King Live.
In her discussion with him he asked about the general state of atheism Her reply was “The best atheists are FORMER MORMONS and CATHOLICS”.

I saw that program and it stayed with me.


47 posted on 03/25/2011 10:44:02 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Visit the TOMMY FRANKS MILITARY MUSEUM in HOBART, OK. I did, well worth it!)
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To: greyfoxx39

This has got to be one of your dumbest posts ever...are you honestly telling me that you don’t believe that the conservative base is composed of a large number of Evangelicals? C’mon....magritte


48 posted on 03/25/2011 10:44:39 AM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: svcw

Ah, sorry, thought you were being facetious, that’s the usual slant on these kind of threads...my apologies...magritte


49 posted on 03/25/2011 10:45:44 AM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: Notary Sojac

Amen!


50 posted on 03/25/2011 10:49:08 AM PDT by barney10
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