[scory]

I vowed long ago never to involve myself with the truly nasty anti-Mormon bigotry posted routinely on these threads but the distortions and lies posted here compel me to make this post.

I will attempt no rebuttal nor will I answer any posting that wants to contend about these matters. Contention is from Satan - not God.

Anyone wishing to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints should read the materials first hand, get to know some typical Mormons, peruse the many web sites both for and against and then after prayer, meditation and long pondering make up their own mind either for or against. If for then by all means look into it deeper. If against then drop it.

[Colofornian]

...the distortions and lies posted here compel me to make this post. I will attempt no rebuttal nor will I answer any posting that wants to contend about these matters.

Translation: I, Scory, go around making false accusations -- accusing people of lying -- but I offer no details. I as a Mormon simply engage in vague accusations minus any proof. Hey, why should I?...We Mormons never offered any to begin with...just rely upon subjective burning bosom feelings...So why should we start now?

[svcw]

The interesting thing about your statement is that you do not defend the documented lds believe statements you attack the poster. So either you are unsure what lds really teach or you actually believe the blasphemy.

Here is the bottom line you can believe the Eternal Word of God Almighty or you can believe the words of Joseph Smith a liar, thief, adulterer, pedophile, flim flam man, con artist, a man who claimed he will decide who gets into heaven, a man who claimed he would be the next mohammad, a man who claimed that god was created, a man who clained that jesus was the spirit brother of satan, a man who believe you to could be god...........

satan lied to Eve - you to can be god
satan lied to Joseph Smith - you to can be god
Joseph Smith lied to everyone - you to can be god

[SZonian]

"...but the distortions and lies posted here..."

Point them out and rebut them or go home.

The juvenile tactic being attempted here is typical of someone who is all hat and no cattle.

[lurk]

“Contention is from Satan - not God.”

Famous Satanic contentious people in scripture.

Moses, throwing down the tablets and going after the rebellious Israelites at Sinai.
David, taking on Goliath.
Elijah, going after the priests at Carmel.
Malachi, rebuking lazy Israel.
Isaiah, rebuking the Jews in Is. 1.
Jesus, throwing out the money changers.
Jesus, rebuking the Pharisees 7 times in Mt. 23.
Stephen, going after the Jews in Acts 7.
Paul, rebuking Peter for being 2 faced in Galatians.
Peter, rebuking Simon in Acts 8 for wanting to buy the Spirit.

We could go on, but you get the idea. If someone is teaching falsehood, contention is the very medicine he needs.

[SpringtoLiberty]

This is not bigotry.

There is nothing in the description of the Mormon jesus here that is untrue.

These points are the real actual beliefs of mormons everywhere. These are CORE tenants of Mormonism.

How can you say that is bigotry if it is what they actually belive? Do you say that because you don’t want anyone to know these beliefs before they have been prepared? Or as the Mormon church teaches their missionaries: “don’t give meat before milk”

[ShadowAce]

Anyone wishing to learn about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints should read the materials first hand,

I've done that.

get to know some typical Mormons,

My neighbors are Mormon

peruse the many web sites both for and against

I've read through most of the official Mormon web sites--See PD's post above.

and then after prayer, meditation and long pondering make up their own mind either for or against.

I've still got some questions no Mormon has been willing to answer. Would you answer them?

[ejonesie22]

I vowed long ago never to involve myself with the truly nasty anti-Mormon bigotry posted routinely on these threads but the distortions and lies posted here compel me to make this post.

You make a public charge of distortion and bigotry.

Is it Mormon SOP to bear false witness and run?

Seems to be.

And I understand why.

Emotional appeal is all there is.

That is not from God.

He created minds for a reason.

[NEMDF]

Can you please specify what the distortions and lies in the post are? SPECIFICALLY, not send me to 15 web sites to read up on LDS? Thank you.

[Colofornian]

ALL: #2, #5, #11 is more obvious standard Mormon doctrine.

Here's the documentation for #3 claim: [The Mormon jesus] had to earn his own salvation while he was on earth:

"Christ is a saved being” (Lds apostle Bruce McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257)

“Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth ‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a saved being, one who had placed all things beneath his feet. ‘I am Alpha and Omega,’ he said, ‘Christ the Lord; yea, even I am he, the beginning and the end, the Redeemer of the world. I, having accomplished and finished the will of him whose I am, even the Father, concerning me—having done this that I might subdue all things unto myself—retaining all power, even to the destroying of Satan and his works at the end of the world, and the last great day of judgment.’ (D&C 19:1-2.)” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234)

(Please also see McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said Jesus "Needs salvation"...”Came to earth to work out His own salvation”)

[Tread EZ]

I don't know why the abuse of another’s religion is accepted on FR. I'm not a Mormon. I understand why a caring Christian might want to proselytize a Mormon just like I understand why young Mormons knock on my door. They think they know the Truth and want to share it. That is a good thing.

I know that FR considers Romney the antichrist. He's a Mormon, of course. Maybe that is why.

It is ugly.

God bless you and yours.

[Bidimus1]

"Contention is from Satan - not God." Jude 1-3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. contention n 1. a struggling between opponents; competition 2. dispute in an argument (esp in the phrase bone of contention) 3. (Literature / Rhetoric) a point asserted in argument [from Latin contentiō exertion, from contendere to contend] Collins English Dictionary

[Colofornian]

ALL: What about #8? That the Mormon jesus' blood is not powerful enough to wipe away any sin.

The Mormon "jesus" really didn't die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature...cause we discover the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute.

The LDS second article of faith, which every True-Believing Mormon knows, reads: "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression."

The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency."

[colorcountry]

My Christian religion actually teaches that we MUST contend. So therefore I do.

Why should your religious teachings trump mine?

[Colofornian]

ALL: Documentation for claim #9: The Mormon jesus aided his father in creating earth by organizing already existing matter; he is not capable of creating things out of nothing.

I have in front of me a 1938 book copyrighted by Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith in which this Smith captured quotes from the original Joseph Smith & titled it Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

...the word create...does not mean to create out of nothing; it means to organize...Hence we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos--chaotic matter, which is element...The pure principles of element are principles which can never be destroyed; they may be oganized and re-organized, but not destroyed. They had no beginning, and can have no end. (Joseph Smith, pp. 350-352)

Of course, what does God's Word say? 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. (Hebrews 11:3)

[Colofornian]

ALL: Documentation for claim #4: The Mormon jesus offers his “grace” only to those who work hard enough.

You don't have to go beyond the Book of Mormon for this one:

Moroni 10:32: 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and IF ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might, mind and strength, THEN is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

2 Nephi 25:23: ye are saved by grace, AFTER ALL YOU can DO

Helaman 12:24: ...they might be restored unto grace for grace, according to their works.

[BlueMoose]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FxWlx-JDWo

[Colofornian]

ALL: Documentation for #5 & #6: The Mormon jesus is not from everlasting to everlasting, but was created a finite time ago by his father god, who in turn was also created by his own father god, who in turn was created by his own father god, so on and so forth

#6: The Mormon jesus is not the greatest being possible.

First, I went to lds.org, just like Scory implied -- and like other Mormons have said I should do. I found this reference to a "Heavenly Mother" who gave spirit-image birth to Jesus and the rest of us:

A Building upon the foundation laid by Joseph Smith, subsequent prophets taught that God was not single, but married; that there is a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother; and that we were made in their image: male and female children. (See James R. Clark, comp., Messages of the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6 vols., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1965–75, 4:203, 205.) The Lord as a Role Model for Men and Women (Aug. 1980)

Then, b, I pulled out The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 1938 book I have:

Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)

Ah, infinite regression involving numerous gods.

And then, c -- to reinforce that these gods are not the greatest beings possible: “The doctrine of a plurality of Gods is prominent in the Bible. The heads of the Gods appointed our God for us…you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves…the same as all Gods have done before you…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 370-372, 346)

Otherwise, if Mormons think this is false, then they'd believe that they, too could catch up & perhaps even pass Jesus as the "greatest being" possible.

Hence, the Mormon god wasn't always god. He was "appointed" by a council of "heads of the gods" of Mormonism.

Obviously the Mormon gods who got a "jumpstart" on godhood before the Kolob Mormon gods have been gods longer. But even they are not revealed to be the ultimate God -- the Original God.

Mormonism has no such god. How sad that they worship such low-level gods.

[william clark]

Contention is from Satan - not God.

I gather, then, that Jude 3 is missing from your copy of the Bible?

[Elsie]

I will attempt no rebuttal nor will I answer any posting that wants to contend about these matters. Contention is from Satan - not God.

CONTENTION came DIRECTLY from JOSEPH SMITH and his satanic PERSONages.

HE is the one who claimed that ALL of Christiandom was abominable and apostate.

(Now is your chance for a comeback and say that GOD told him that.)

[Elsie]

Contention is from Satan - not God.

And False Teachings come from SLC in great volume!