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Joseph Smith's successful and unsuccessful proposals to church leaders' wives (Mormon)
Recovery from Mormonism ^ | March 31, 2011 | Various-sourced

Posted on 03/31/2011 3:17:24 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

When the family organization was revealed from heaven—the patriarchal order of God, and Joseph began, on the right and the left, to add to his family, what a quaking there was in Israel. Says one brother to another, "Joseph says all covenants [previous marriages] are done away, and none are binding but the new covenants [marriage by priesthood sealing power]; now suppose Joseph should come and say he wanted your wife, what would you say to that?" "I would tell him to go to hell." This was the spirit of many in the early days of this Church. . . . What would a man of God say, who felt aright, when Joseph asked him for his money? [he would give it all willingly] Or if he came and said, "I want your wife?" "O yes," he would say, "here she is, there are plenty more" . . . Did the Prophet Joseph want every man's wife he asked for? He did not . . . the grand object in view was to try the people of God, to see what was in them. If such a man of God should come to me and say, "I want your gold and silver, or your wives," I should say, "Here they are, I wish I had more to give you, take all I have got." A man who has got the Spirit of God, and the light of eternity in him, has no trouble about such matters."
- Apostle Jedediah M. Grant, second counselor to Brigham Young and father of President Heber J. Grant, sermon delivered on 19 February 1854 (JD 2: 13-14)

Joseph Smith's Failed Proposals to Married Women

John Taylor's Wife, Leonora
"The Prophet went to the home of President Taylor, and said to him, 'Brother John, I WANT LEONORA.'" Taylor was stunned, but after walking the floor all night, the obedient elder said to Smith, "If GOD wants Leonora He can have her." Woodruff concluded: "That was all the prophet was after, to see where President Taylor stood in the matter, and said to him, Brother Taylor, I dont want your wife, I just wanted to know just where you stood."
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, John Mills Whitaker Journal, Nov. 1 1890; emphasis in original

Heber C. Kimball's Wife, Vilate
“During the summer of 1841, shortly after Heber's return from England, he was introduced to the doctrine of plural marriage directly through a startling test-a sacrifice which shook his very being and challenged his faith to the ultimate. He had already sacrificed homes, possessions, friends, relatives, all worldly rewards, peace, and tranquility for the Restoration. Nothing was left to place on the altar save his life, his children, and his wife. Joseph demanded for himself what to Heber was the unthinkable, his Vilate. Totally crushed spiritually and emotionally, Heber touched neither food nor water for three days and three nights and continually sought confirmation and comfort from God." Finally, after "some kind of assurance," Heber took Vilate to the upper room of Joseph's store on Water Street. The Prophet wept at this act of faith, devotion, and obedience. Joseph had never intended to take Vilate. It was all a test."
- Biography of Heber C. Kimball, "Heber C. Kimball, Mormon Patriarch and Pioneer." By Stanley B. Kimball, page 93.

Orson Pratt's Wife, Sarah
"Sometime in late 1840 or early 1841, Joseph Smith confided to his friend that he was smitten by the "amiable and accomplished" Sarah Pratt and wanted her for "one of his spiritual wives, for the Lord had given her to him as a special favor for his faithfulness" (emphasis in original). Shortly afterward, the two men took some of Bennett's sewing to Sarah's house. During the visit, as Bennett describes it, Joseph said, "Sister Pratt, the Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope you will not repulse or deny me." "And is that the great secret that I am not to utter," Sarah replied. "Am I called upon to break the marriage covenant, and prove recreant to my lawful husband! I never will." She added, "I care not for the blessings of Jacob. I have one good husband, and that is enough for me." But according to Bennett, the Prophet was persistent. Finally Sarah angrily told him on a subsequent visit, "Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of the kind with me again, I will make a full disclosure to Mr. Pratt on his return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it." "Sister Pratt," the Prophet responded, "I hope you will not expose me, for if I suffer, all must suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?" "If you will never insult me again," Sarah replied, "I will not expose you unless strong circumstances should require it." "If you should tell," the Prophet added, "I will ruin your reputation, remember that."
(Article "Sarah M. Pratt" by Richard A. Van Wagoner, Dialogue, Vol.19, No.2, p.72. Also see: http://www.xmission.com/~country/reason/spratt.htm)

William Law's Wife, Jane
"William Law, a former counselor in the First Presidency, wrote in his 13 May 1844 diary: "[Joseph] ha[s] lately endeavored to seduce my wife, and ha[s] found her a virtuous woman" The Laws elaborated on this in a public meeting shortly thereafter. "The Prophet had made dishonorable proposals to [my] wife . . . under cover of his asserted 'Revelation,' " Law stated. He further explained that Joseph came to the Law home in the middle of the night when William was absent and told Jane that "the Lord had commanded that he should take spiritual wives, to add to his glory." Law then called on his wife to corroborate what he had said. She did so and further explained that Joseph had "asked her to give him half her love; she was at liberty to keep the other half for her husband" Jane refused the Prophet, and according to William Law's 20 January 1887 letter to the Salt Lake Tribune, Smith then considered the couple apostates. "Jane had been speaking evil of him for a long time . . . slandered him, and lied about him without cause," Law reported Smith as saying. "My wife would not speak evil of . . . anyone . . . without cause," Law asserted. "Joseph is the liar and not she. That Smith admired and lusted after many men's wives and daughters, is a fact, but they could not help that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken their reputations--see the case of . . . Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman."
("Mormon Polygamy" by Richard S. Van Wagoner, page 44)

Hiram Kimball's wife, Sarah
Sarah M. Kimball, a prominent Nauvoo and Salt Lake City Relief Society leader was also approached by the Prophet in early 1842 despite her solid 1840 marriage to Hiram Kimball. Sarah later recalled that  "Joseph Smith taught me the principle of marriage for eternity, and the doctrine of plural marriage. He said that in teaching this he realized that he jeopardized his life; but God had revealed it to him many years before as a privilege with blessings, now God had revealed it again and instructed him to teach with commandment, as the Church could travel [progress] no further without the introduction of this principle." ("LDS Biographical Encyclopedia" By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887)
Sarah Kimball, like Sarah Pratt, was committed to her husband, and refused the Prophet's invitation, asking that he "teach it to someone else." Although she kept the matter quiet, her husband and Smith evidently had difficulties over Smith's proposal. On 19 May 1842, at a Nauvoo City Council meeting, Smith jotted down and then "threw across the room" a revelation to Kimball which declared that "Hiram Kimball has been insinuating evil, and formulating evil opinions" against the Prophet, which if he does not desist from, he "shall be accursed." Sarah remained a lifetime member of the Church and a lifelong wife to Hiram Kimball.
- "LDS Biographical Encyclopedia" By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887, Official History of the Church 5: 12-13,

Sidney Rigdon's daughter, Nancy
When Smith proposed marriage in April 1842 to Nancy Rigdon, nineteen-year-old daughter of his close friend and counselor, Sidney Rigdon, he reportedly took her into a room, "locked the door, and then stated to her that he had had an affection for her for several years, and wished that she should be his." Nancy refused him, saying she would only marry a single man. The following day Smith explained in a letter to her: "That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another." He added, "Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof." She remained unconvinced. Nancy, her brother John, and her brother-in-law George W. Robinson testified in sworn affidavits that the Joseph Smith had proposed "spiritual marriage" to her. Smith publicly denied the accusations. ("The Letter of the Prophet, Joseph Smith to Miss Nancy Rigdon," Joseph Smith Collection, LDS archives; History of The Church 5:134-36. Sidney Rigdon Biography, Richard S. Van Wagoner, Chapter 21)

Joseph Smith's Successful Proposals to Married Women

Adam Lightner's wife, Mary
Mary Elizabeth Rollins, already married to non-Mormon Adam Lightner since 11 August 1835, was one of the first women to accept a polyandrous proposal from Joseph Smith. "He was commanded to take me for a wife," she wrote in a 21 November 1880 letter to Emmeline B. Wells. "I was his, before I came here," she added in an 8 February 1902 statement. Brigham Young secretly sealed the two in February 1842 when Mary was eight months pregnant with her son George Algernon Lightner. She lived with her real husband Adam Lightner until his death in Utah many years later. In her 1880 letter to Emmeline B. Wells, Mary explained: "I could tell you why I stayed with Mr. Lightner. Things the leaders of the Church do not know anything about. I did just as Joseph told me to do, as he knew what troubles I would have to contend with." She added on 23 January 1892 in a letter to John R. Young: "I could explain some things in regard to my living with Mr. L[ightner] after becoming the Wife of Another (Joseph Smith), which would throw light, on what now seems mysterious--and you would be perfectly satisfied with me. I write this; because I have heard that it had been commented on to my injury"
(Lightner, Mary E. Statement. 8 Feb. 1902; Lightner to Emmeline B. Wells, 21 Nov. 1880; Lightner to John R. Young, 25 Jan. 1892. George A. Smith Papers. Special Collections. University of Utah)

Orson Hyde's Wife, Marinda
Marinda Nancy Johnson, sister of Apostles Luke and Lyman Johnson, married Orson Hyde in 1834. A year before Hyde returned from Jerusalem in 1843, Marinda was sealed to Joseph Smith in April of 1842, though she lived with Orson until their divorce in 1870. Many suspect Joseph Smith was the actual father of Marinda's son Frank Henry who was born on 23 Jan 1845, for two reasons. First, because Marinda had been the polygamous wife of Smith since Apr 1842. Second, because Smith had sent her first husband, Orson Hyde, on a mission to Washington on April 4, 1844 "immediately" after a meeting with Joseph Smith (History of the Church, pg. 286). The gestation period for a human is on average 266 days (not 9 months), which would date the conception to early May 1844. Of course, 266 is an average date and the figures vary. To give you an idea of the range, only four percent of pregnancies are actually carried two weeks or more beyond the average time (Guttmacher, 1983). Frank Henry was born on January 23, 1845. Orson Hyde left for Washington April 4, 1844. The difference in these two dates is 294 days! That is almost a month longer than expected and is basically physiologically impossible, especially considering that Orson Hyde had not returned to Nauvoo until August 6, 1844.
(Andrew Jenson, Church Chronology, August 6, 1844) Marinda later divorced Orson Hyde and voiced her disgust of polygamy.

Windsor Lyon's Wife, Sylvia
Sylvia P. Sessions, married to Windsor P. Lyon, gave birth to a daughter on 8 February 1844, less than five months before Joseph Smith's martyrdom. That daughter, Josephine, related in a 24 February 1915 statement that prior to her mother's death in 1882 "she called me to her bedside and told me that her days on earth were about numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and all others but which she now desired to communicate to me." Josephine's mother told her she was "the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith, she having been sealed to the Prophet at the time that her husband Mr. Lyon was out of fellowship with the Church."
(Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)

Norman Buell's Wife, Prescindia
Prescindia D. Huntington, a faithful Mormon and married woman in Nauvoo, was also a polyandrous wife of Joseph Smith. Prescindia had married Norman Buell in 1827 and had two sons by him before joining Mormonism in 1836. She was secretly sealed to Joseph Smith by her brother Dimick on 11 December 1841, though she continued to live with her husband Buell until 1846, when she left him to marry Heber C. Kimball. In a "letter to my eldest grand-daughter living in 1880," she explained that Norman Buell had left the Church in 1839, but that "the Lord gave me strength to Stand alone & keep the faith amid heavy persecution." (Mormon Polygamy: A History" by Richard S. Van Wagoner, page 44)

Prescindia, who was Normal Buell's wife and simultaneously a "plural wife" of the Prophet Joseph Smith, said that she did not know whether her husband Norman "or the Prophet was the father of her son, Oliver." And a glance at a photo of Oliver shows a strong resemblance to Emma Smith's boys.
(Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the Mormons", page 34; Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My History" pages 301-302, 437-39)

Lucinda Morgan Harris, wife of Far West high councilor George Harris, admitted in 1842 that she had been Smith's "mistress since four years," and it is known that she visited Smith while he was incarcerated in Liberty Jail in 1838.

Henry Jacob's Wife, Zina
Henry Jacob's Wife, Zina
Prescindia's twenty-year-old sister Zina was living in the Joseph Smith home when Elder Henry B. Jacobs married her in March 1841. According to family records, when Zina and Henry asked Joseph Smith why he had not honored them by performing their marriage, Smith replied that "the Lord had made it known to him that [Zina] was to be his Celestial wife." Believing that "whatever the Prophet did was right, without making the wisdom of God's authorities bend to the reasoning of any man," the devout Elder Jacobs consented for six-months-pregnant Zina to be sealed to Joseph Smith 27 October 1841. Some have suggested that the Jacobs's marriage was "unhappy" and that the couple had separated before her sealing to Joseph Smith. But, though sealed to Joseph Smith for eternity, Zina continued her connubial relationship with her husband Henry Jacobs. On 2 February 1846, pregnant with Henry's second son, Zina was re-sealed by proxy to the murdered Joseph Smith and in that same session was “sealed for time" to Brigham Young. Faithful Henry B. Jacobs stood by as an official witness to both ceremonies.
("History of Henry Bailey Jacobs." By Ora J. Cannon, page 5-7. also see "Recollections of Zina D. Young" by Mary Brown Firmage)

Zina and Henry lived together as husband and wife until the Mormon pioneers reached Mt. Pisgah, Iowa. At this temporary stop on the pioneer trail, Brigham Young announced that "it was time for men who were walking in other men's shoes to step out of them. Brother Jacobs, the woman you claim for a wife does not belong to you. She is the spiritual wife of brother Joseph, sealed up to him. I am his proxy, and she, in this behalf, with her children, are my property. You can go where you please, and get another, but be sure to get one of your own kindred spirit" (Hall 1853, 43-44). President Young then called Jacobs on a mission to England. Witnesses to his departure commented that he was so emotionally ill they had to "put him on a blanket and carry him to the boat to get him on his way".
("Short Sketch of the Life of Henry B. Jacobs" By Ora J. Cannon)

Henry returned from his mission and settled in California. But he was still in love with his wife Zina, now a plural wife of Brigham Young. Henry's letters to his wife Zina were heartrending. On 2 September 1852 he wrote: "O how happy I should be if I only could see you and the little children, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh." "I am unhappy," Henry lamented, "there is no peace for poor me, my pleasure is you, my comfort has vanished.... O Zina, can I ever, will I ever get you again, answer the question please." In an undated Valentine he added:
Zina my mind never will change from Worlds without Ends, no never, the same affection is there and never can be moved I do not murmur nor complain of the handlings of God no verily, no but I feel alone and no one to speak to, to call my own. I feel like a lamb without a mother, I do not blame any person or persons, no--May the Lord our Father bless Brother Brigham and all purtains unto him forever. Tell him for me I have no feelings against him nor never had, all is right according to the Law of the Celestial Kingdom of our god Joseph [Smith]." ("Short Sketch of the Life of Henry B. Jacobs" By Ora J. Cannon)
It was the rule rather than the exception for Smith to encourage a polyandrous wife to remain with her legal husband.
Faithful Mormon Joseph Kingsbury even wrote that he served as a surrogate husband for Joseph Smith:
"I according to Pres. Joseph Smith & council & others, I agreed to stand by Sarah Ann Whitney [sealed to Smith 27 July 1843] as though I was supposed to be her husband and a pretended marriage for the purpose of shielding them from the enemy and for the purpose of bringing out the purposes of God." (Elder Joseph Kingsbury, "History of Joseph Kingsbury Written by His Own Hand," page 5, Utah State Historical Society



TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Moral Issues; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: antimormonjihad; antimormonmanifesto; antimormonrant; blah; blahblah; blahblahblah; blahblahblahblah; flamebait; flamewar; geeihatemormons; inman; lds; moralissues; mormon; polygamy; religiousbigotry; religiousintolerance
Doctrine and Covenants section 132 STILL official LDS Scripture

Doctrine and Covenants
Section 132
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

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1 posted on 03/31/2011 3:17:29 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; Tennessee Nana; ...
Ping

Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources among others, that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum.   In light of continual articles being posted that are in nature, propaganda for the LDS church this article is posted to shed light on the truthful nature of the foundation of the mormon church and on  its founder, Joseph Smith.
 
FROM THE RELIGION FORUM MODERATOR:

Open threads are a town square. Antagonism though not encouraged, should be expected

Posters may argue for or against beliefs of any kind. They may tear down other’s beliefs. They may ridicule.

On all threads, but particularly “open” threads, posters must never “make it personal.” Reading minds and attributing motives are forms of “making it personal.” Making a thread “about” another Freeper is “making it personal.”

When in doubt, review your use of the pronoun “you” before hitting “enter.”

Like the Smoky Backroom, the conversation may be offensive to some.

Thin-skinned posters will be booted from “open” threads because in the town square, they are the disrupters.

http://www.freerepublic.com/~religionmoderator/

 Thin-skinned (emotional, whiney or mercurial temper) posters are the disruptors on open threads.

 

2 posted on 03/31/2011 3:23:01 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: greyfoxx39

I would give my wife to a man if he asked.

I would ask for his vital organs in exchange.


3 posted on 03/31/2011 3:27:26 PM PDT by lurk
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To: greyfoxx39

“When the family organization was revealed from heaven . . . “

Please, there’s nothing from heaven for the LDS . . . Joe Smith, Jr., was a fraud from the beginning and is leading millions of people to hell by these ramblings.

Just look up “KOLOB” in Google to see what nonsense he came up with along with hundreds of other incredibly ridiculous pronouncements. His best one was that he, Joe Smith, Jr., will sit next to Jesus Christ to determine if we go to heaven or hell.

That alone should be enough for anyone with any sense to return to Christianity and ask forgiveness from Jesus for having believed this heathen. It’s a shame that anyone with any knowledge of this guy’s background would believe anything he said.


4 posted on 03/31/2011 3:30:23 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: greyfoxx39

Horndog Prophet Joe Smith Placemarker


5 posted on 03/31/2011 3:32:43 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: lurk

Darned good answer, Lurk!


6 posted on 03/31/2011 3:35:09 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: greyfoxx39
Joe Smith was not only a horndog and false prophet, but also a scammer who tried to
convince others he could find treasure buried under the ground. The following court testimony
shows his character:


"Josiah Stowell, a Mormonite, being sworn, testified that he positively knew that said Smith never had lied to, or deceived him, and did not believe he ever tried to deceive any body else. The following questions were then asked him, to which he made the replies annexed.

Did Smith ever tell you there was money hid in a certain glass which he mentioned?

Yes.

Did he tell you, you could find it by digging?

Yes.

Did you dig?

Yes.

Did you find any money?

No.

Did he not lie to you then, and deceive you?

No! the money was there, but we did not get quite to it!

How do you know it was there?

Smith said it was!

Addison Austin was next called upon, who testified, that at the very same time that Stowell was digging for money, he, Austin, was in company with said Smith alone, and asked him to tell him honestly whether he could see this money or not.

Smith hesitated some time, but finally replied, "to be candid, between you and me, I cannot, any more than you or any body else; but any way to get a living."

Here, then, we have his own confession, that he was a vile, dishonest impostor.

As regards the testimony of Josiah Stowell, it needs no comment. He swears positively that Smith did not lie to him. So much for a Mormon witness."

http://olivercowdery.com/smithhome/1877Purp.htm


Today, on FreeRepublic, you can see the same blind belief that exists despite the facts, evidence and logic that shows Joe Smith to be a fraud.
7 posted on 03/31/2011 3:43:04 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: greyfoxx39

What makes Smith different than Jim Jones?

Oh....besides the Kool-Aid?


8 posted on 03/31/2011 3:46:57 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (Tosca, mi fai dimenticare Iddio!!!)
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To: greyfoxx39

I am going to vomit!


9 posted on 03/31/2011 3:48:48 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

interesting


10 posted on 03/31/2011 3:57:39 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis (Want to make $$$? It's easy! Use FR as a platform to pimp your blog for hits!!!)
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To: greyfoxx39
John Taylor's Wife, Leonora "The Prophet went to the home of President Taylor, and said to him, 'Brother John, I WANT LEONORA.'"

That reminds me of that old joke.... "Take my wife, please" - by Henny Youngman

11 posted on 03/31/2011 4:02:58 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Just saying.......)
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To: greyfoxx39

Nice to see old Jim Harmston my high school classmate has made the chart. He didn’t come to the 50 year reunion last year. Could have been a fun day had he shown up.

One of my high school sweethearts married a Kingston last year. I asked her if she knew they were all polygs. Gave me the weirdest look.


12 posted on 03/31/2011 4:03:35 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the Inman FReepers Meet July 23 Pray Jim Rob Can Make It)
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To: greyfoxx39
More evidence, sworn in a court of law, of the low character of Joseph Smith - and the roots of his golden plates scam.



TESTIMONY OF PETER INGERSOLL.

Palmyra, Wayne Co., N. Y. 1833.    
In the month of August, 1827, I was hired by Joseph Smith, jr. to go to Pennsylvania, to move his wife's household furniture up to Manchester, where his wife then was. -- His father-in-law (Mr. Hale,) addressed Joseph, in a flood of tears: -- "You have stolen my daughter, and married her. I had much rather have followed her to her grave. You spend your time in digging for money, pretend to see in a stone, and thus try to deceive people." Joseph wept, and acknowledged he could not see in a stone now, nor never could. He then promised to give up his old habits of digging for money and looking into stones.

One day, Joseph came to me. "Yesterday," said he, I found, in a hollow, some beautiful white sand. I took off my frock, and tied up several quarts of it, and then went home. The family were all anxious to know the contents of my frock. At that moment, I happened to think of what I had heard about a history found in Canada, called the Golden Bible. So I very gravely told them it was the Golden Bible. To my surprise, they were credulous enough to believe what I said. Accordingly I told them that I had received a commandment to let no one see it. And now, said Jo, I have got the damned fools fixed, and will carry out the fun.

In the fall of 1827, Joseph wanted to go to Pennsylvania. He was out of money. He went to Palmyra. Said he, "I there met that damned fool, Martin Harris, and told him that I had a command to ask the first honest man I met with, for fifty dollars. He promptly gave me the fifty."

Sworn before Thos. P. Baldwin, Judge of Wayne Co. Court.

13 posted on 03/31/2011 4:06:53 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Utah Binger

Oh, Kingston! When I first read that I thought you had written Klingon. I either need to drink or get new glasses.


14 posted on 03/31/2011 4:07:16 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Utah Binger

Oh, Kingston! When I first read that I thought you had written Klingon. I either need to drink or get new glasses.


15 posted on 03/31/2011 4:07:26 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
What makes Smith different than Jim Jones? Oh....besides the Kool-Aid?

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Jim Jones wasn't tar and feathered....?

16 posted on 03/31/2011 4:09:37 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Just saying.......)
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To: svcw
Oh, Kingston! When I first read that I thought you had written Klingon. I either need to drink or get new glasses.

Yep, NOW you're seeing double! ;0)

17 posted on 03/31/2011 4:10:33 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: svcw
Vodka works! Keep's the blood thin as well.

BTW I just sold the famous John Stenvall called "Home Sweet Home".


18 posted on 03/31/2011 4:13:56 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the Inman FReepers Meet July 23 Pray Jim Rob Can Make It)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Well Kool Aide was not around in Smith's day. But his followers sure seem to drink it now...
19 posted on 03/31/2011 4:42:54 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: dragonblustar

They tarred and feathered Joseph Smith?? For all the evil stuff he did to get his false religion going, he got what he deserved!


20 posted on 03/31/2011 4:44:35 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: greyfoxx39

So, Joseph Smith was a Democrat then?


21 posted on 03/31/2011 4:51:06 PM PDT by Twinkie (WHERE'S ALL OF OBAMA'S RECORDS?)
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To: Buddygirl
They tarred and feathered Joseph Smith?? For all the evil stuff he did to get his false religion going, he got what he deserved!

They pickled Rasputin's "member". I'm surprised Joseph Smith's admirers didn't do the same. I'm sure Joseph Smith's little buddy did all the thinking.

22 posted on 03/31/2011 4:52:59 PM PDT by dragonblustar (Just saying.......)
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To: Utah Binger

Nice. Love his work.


23 posted on 03/31/2011 5:03:56 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: greyfoxx39
Any politician who believes this crap should never be voted for.  Problem is half our voters don't have a half a brain.



24 posted on 03/31/2011 5:18:45 PM PDT by fulltlt
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To: greyfoxx39
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their former Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, quote and straw man attack that. Almost without fail you will see examples of this following this post.

Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think. So again, seek the truth. They aren't providing it. Use your God-given brain and discernment.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


25 posted on 03/31/2011 5:23:49 PM PDT by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
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To: Paragon Defender

So what is incorrect about the posted article?
Your links will not provide the answers to my question.
What is incorrect, misrepresented, twisted, clouded or all the other words you use rather than answer questions.


26 posted on 03/31/2011 5:31:41 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Paragon Defender

I find it ironic that you use a Bible verse, “Woe to them who call evil good and good, evil.” Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing! You are like Paul before his conversion to the Lord Jesus. He thought he was doing God’s work and then when Jesus confronted him on the road to Damascus, he realized he had been working against God!
I pray that Jesus will open your spiritual eyes before it is too late!


27 posted on 03/31/2011 5:34:24 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: greyfoxx39

From PD’s links http://www.fairblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Timely-Statistics-Vindicate.pdf


28 posted on 03/31/2011 5:35:01 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Buddygirl

Sorry but you have it backwards and are a good example of what happens when you listen to the wrong people. You are being blinded by those who are calling good evil and evil good. I hope you figure it out soon.


29 posted on 03/31/2011 5:39:06 PM PDT by Paragon Defender (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil....)
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To: greyfoxx39

So who gets to apply the same kind of test to Joseph Smith, to ask him for all his worldy wealth, and to ask him for all his wives? Would he have been so gracious as to turn over everything he had?

I would think that as a ‘prophet’ Joseph would have even been held to a higher standard and probably should have just volunteered all his wealth and wives away. Before even anyone would have to ask him. you know, just to see ‘where he stood with God.’


30 posted on 03/31/2011 5:53:36 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: dragonblustar

Or the other old joke....”...and if I was married to you, madam, I would drink the poison!”


31 posted on 03/31/2011 5:55:30 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: Paragon Defender
More and more folks coming out to call you on your little game.

Keep up the good work.

32 posted on 03/31/2011 6:03:23 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: greyfoxx39
The testimony of Emily and Eliza Partridge, two sisters who were coerced into marriages with Joseph Smith, is one of the most revolting stories that I've ever read.

Both married him without knowing the other sister had. Their marriages to him were four days apart. He married them secretly from everyone including his first wife Emma. They were the 20th and 21st out of 34 wives. Smith left them with hand shake to signify the end of their marriages.

33 posted on 03/31/2011 6:13:57 PM PDT by delacoert
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To: greyfoxx39

34 posted on 03/31/2011 11:33:28 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Horndog Prophet Joe Smith Placemarker


35 posted on 03/31/2011 11:34:54 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: dragonblustar

rimshot


36 posted on 03/31/2011 11:35:42 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: dragonblustar
Jim Jones wasn't tar and feathered....?

Didn't Jesus say, in the Book of MORMON; "Many are tarred, but few are feathered."?

37 posted on 03/31/2011 11:37:44 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: dragonblustar
I'm sure Joseph Smith's little buddy did all the thinking.


JESUS: Hey Smith!       Remember that boast you made about doing more than even I had done to hold the 'church' together?

JOSEPH SMITH: Where am I?

JESUS: Don't you remember? A few seconds ago you were in that jail.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah; but where am I NOW?

JESUS: Don't you remember? Does bang - bang ring a bell?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh; yeah - that crummy gun I had was about USELESS!

JESUS: I hope you left instructions on how to hold your church together.

JOSEPH SMITH: Dang! I knew there was SOMETHING I was forgetting!

JESUS: Looks like there's a power struggle going on down there.

JOSEPH SMITH: Yeah; there was always SOMEone who wanted the power that I held - especially over the LADIES - wink wink.

JESUS: No need to worry about that now; remember what my friend Matthew wrote down?

JOSEPH SMITH: This? “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30)

JESUS: That's it.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: Nah - it was right.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh well; it was fun while it lasted. My buds will still get it on with the girls.

JESUS: Uh; I'm sorry; in just a few more years; your followers will cavein to the United States government and abandon the 'Eternal Covenant' that you came up with.

JOSEPH SMITH: ME!? YOU are the one that told me to do that!

JESUS: Sorry; but you must have mistranslated what I told you. What part of Do NOT commit ADULTERY did you not understand?

JOSEPH SMITH: mumble....

JESUS: What did you say?

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, nothing.

JESUS: Well; it was interesting talking to you; but now I must get back to perparing a place for those who believe in Me.

JOSEPH SMITH: Oh, yeah; the Celestial Kingdom.

JESUS: No...

JOSEPH SMITH: The Telestial one?

JESUS: Nope.

JOSEPH SMITH: SUREly not the TERRESTRIAL one!!

JESUS: Nope. Didn't you read that the mind of man had NOT conceived of it? Paul wrote it down in 1 Corinthians 2:9.

JOSEPH SMITH: I thought that was mistranslated.

JESUS: No; it wasn't.

JOSEPH SMITH: You SURE?

JESUS: Yes. Now I must be going: what did you say your name was again?

JOSEPH SMITH: Joseph Smith.

JESUS: Hmmmm. According to my Heavenly FAITHbook, you didn't sign in as one of my friends - sorry, I never knew you.

JOSEPH SMITH: But.... 

38 posted on 03/31/2011 11:39:21 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Secret Agent Man
So who gets to apply the same kind of test to Joseph Smith, to ask him for all his worldy wealth, and to ask him for all his wives?


           Decisions decisions!

 
Fanny Alger
Lucinda Morgan Harris
Louisa Beaman
Zina Huntington Jacobs
Presendia Huntington Buell
Agnes Coolbrith
Sylvia Sessions Lyon
Mary Rollins Lightner
Patty Bartlett Sessions
Marinda Johnson Hyde
Elizabeth Davis Durfee
Sarah Kingsley Cleveland
Delcena Johnson
Eliza R. Snow
Sarah Ann Whitney
Martha McBride Knight
Ruth Vose Sayers
Flora Ann Woodworth
Emily Dow Partridge
Eliza Maria Partridge
Almera Johnson
Lucy Walker
Sarah Lawrence
Maria Lawrence
Helen Mar Kimball
Hanna Ells
Elvira Cowles Holmes
Rhoda Richards
Desdemona Fullmer
Olive Frost
Melissa Lott
Nancy Winchester
Fanny Young
 
Emma Hale only!!
 
 


40 posted on 03/31/2011 11:41:38 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: delacoert
The testimony of Emily and Eliza Partridge, two sisters who were coerced into marriages with Joseph Smith, is one of the most revolting stories that I've ever read.

Then what you need, Bubba; is to read some SCRIPTURE!!


Doctines and Covenants section 132
 
51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

 52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

 53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

 54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

 55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

 56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice.

41 posted on 03/31/2011 11:44:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

42 posted on 04/01/2011 7:11:46 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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THX1138


43 posted on 04/01/2011 7:15:09 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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