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Video: Joseph Smith, prophet of the restoration (REAL Mormon / LDS)
LDS Church News ^

Posted on 04/01/2011 7:37:54 AM PDT by Paragon Defender

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To: PeachyKeen

Do “Christians” revere Martin Luther ?

Do they follow he teachings of Martin Luther ?


101 posted on 04/02/2011 9:05:03 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose
Stick to the Shirts videos, it looks less foolish then you guys start that word paring and obfuscation...

For the straights in the audience, revering/respecting etc is a tick or two different that praising and worship.

Read the text of the “Praise to the Man”, it is pretty clear how the look at Smith. After all he has to stamp your hand to get into heaven.

See the links the LDS guys post on that one...

Then look at how the True Christian groups look at the likes of Luther, Wesley and other great teachers. Hardly the same...

102 posted on 04/02/2011 10:02:48 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22
I like John Wesley also 1. In the first place I shall endeavor to show in what sense Christians are not perfect. And both from experience and Scripture it appears, First, that they are not perfect in knowledge: they are not so perfect in this life as to be free from ignorance. They know, it may be, in common with other men, many things relating to the present world; and they know, with regard to the world to come, the general truths which God hath revealed. They know, likewise, (what the natural man receiveth not, for these things are spiritually discerned,) "what manner of love" it is wherewith "the Father" hath loved them, "that they should be called the sons of God." [1 John 3:1] They know the mighty working of his Spirit in their hearts; [Eph. 3:16] and the wisdom of his providence, directing all their paths, [Prov. 3:6] and causing all things to work together for their good. [Rom. 8:28] Yea, they know in every circumstance of life what the Lord requireth of them, and how to keep a conscience void of offence both toward God and toward man. [Acts 24:16]

2. But innumerable are the things which they know not. Touching the Almighty himself, they cannot search him out to perfection. "Lo, these are but a part of his ways; but the thunder of his power who can understand?" [Job 26:14] They cannot understand, I will not say, how "there are Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and these three are one;" [1 John 5:7] or how the eternal Son of God "took upon himself the form of a servant;" [Phil. 2:7] -- but not any one attribute, not any one circumstance of the divine nature. [2 Pet. 1:4] Neither is it for them to know the times and seasons [Acts 1:7] when God will work his great works upon the earth; no, not even those which he hath in part revealed by his servants and Prophets since the world began. [see Amos 3:7] Much less do they know when God, having "accomplished the number of his elect, will hasten his kingdom;" when "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat." [2 Pet. 3:10]

3. They know not the reasons even of many of his present dispensations with the sons of men; but are constrained to rest here, -- Though "clouds and darkness are round about him, righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his seat." [Ps. 97:2] Yea, often with regard to his dealings with themselves, doth their Lord say unto them, "What I do, thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter." [John 13:7] And how little do they know of what is ever before them, of even the visible works of his hands! -- How "he spreadeth the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing?" [Job 26:7] How he unites all the parts of this vast machine by a secret chain which cannot be broken? So great is the ignorance, so very little the knowledge, of even the best of men!

4. No one, then, is so perfect in this life, as to be free from ignorance. Nor, Secondly, from mistake; which indeed is almost an unavoidable consequence of it; seeing those who "know but in part" [1 Cor. 13:12] are ever liable to err touching the things which they know not. It is true, the children of God do not mistake as to the things essential to salvation: They do not "put darkness for light, or light for darkness;" [Isa. 5:20] neither "seek death in the error of their life." [Wisdom 1:12] For they are "taught of God," and the way which he teaches them, the way of holiness, is so plain, that "the wayfaring man, though a fool, need not err therein." [Isa. 35:8] But in things unessential to salvation they do err, and that frequently. The best and wisest of men are frequently mistaken even with regard to facts; believing those things not to have been which really were, or those to have been done which were not. Or, suppose they are not mistaken as to the fact itself, they may be with regard to its circumstances; believing them, or many of them, to have been quite different from what in truth, they were. And hence cannot but arise many farther mistakes. Hence they may believe either past or present actions which were or are evil, to be good; and such as were or are good, to be evil. Hence also they may judge not according to truth with regard to the characters of men; and that, not only by supposing good men to be better, or wicked men to be worse, than they are, but by believing them to have been or to be good men who were or are very wicked; or perhaps those to have been or to be wicked men, who were or are holy and unreprovable.

5. Nay, with regard to the Holy Scriptures themselves, as careful as they are to avoid it, the best of men are liable to mistake, and do mistake day by day; especially with respect to those parts thereof which less immediately relate to practice. Hence even the children of God are not agreed as to the interpretation of many places in holy writ: Nor is their difference of opinion any proof that they are not the children of God on either side; but it is a proof that we are no more to expect any living man to be infallible than to be omniscient.

6. If it be objected to what has been observed under this and the preceding head, that St. John, speaking to his brethren in the faith says, "Ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things:" (1 John 2:20) The answer is plain: "Ye know all things that are needful for your souls' health." [cf. 3 John 2] That the Apostle never designed to extend this farther, that he could not speak it in an absolute sense, is clear, First from hence; -- that otherwise he would describe the disciple as "above his Master;" seeing Christ himself, as man, knew not all things: "Of that hour," saith he, "knoweth no man; no, not the Son, but the Father only." [Mark 13:32] It is clear, Secondly, from the Apostle's own words that follow: "These things have I written unto you concerning them that deceive you;" [cf. 1 John 3:7] as well as from his frequently repeated caution, "Let no man deceive you;" [see Mark 13:5; Eph. 5:6; 2 Thess. 2:3] which had been altogether needless, had not those very persons who had that unction from the Holy One [1 John 2:20] been liable, not to ignorance only, but to mistake also.

7. Even Christians, therefore, are not so perfect as to be free either from ignorance or error: We may, Thirdly, add, nor from infirmities. -- Only let us take care to understand this word aright: Only let us not give that soft title to known sins, as the manner of some is. So, one man tells us, "Every man has his infirmity, and mine is drunkenness;" Another has the infirmity of uncleanness; another of taking God's holy name in vain; and yet another has the infirmity of calling his brother, "Thou fool," [Matt. 5:22] or returning "railing for railing." [1 Pet. 3:9] It is plain that all you who thus speak, if ye repent not, shall, with your infirmities, go quick into hell! But I mean hereby, not only those which are properly termed bodily infirmities, but all those inward or outward imperfections which are not of a moral nature. Such are the weakness or slowness of understanding, dulness or confusedness of apprehension, incoherency of thought, irregular quickness or heaviness of imagination. Such (to mention no more of this kind) is the want of a ready or of a retentive memory. Such in another kind, are those which are commonly, in some measure, consequent upon these; namely, slowness of speech, impropriety of language, ungracefulness of pronunciation; to which one might add a thousand nameless defects, either in conversation or behaviour. These are the infirmities which are found in the best of men, in a larger or smaller proportion. And from these none can hope to be perfectly freed till the spirit returns to God that gave it. [Eccles. 12:7] 8. Nor can we expect, till then, to be wholly free from temptation. Such perfection belongeth not to this life. It is true, there are those who, being given up to work all uncleanness with greediness, [Eph. 4:19] scarce perceive the temptations which they resist not, and so seem to be without temptation. There are also many whom the wise enemy of souls, seeing to be fast asleep in the dead form of godliness, will not tempt to gross sin, lest they should awake before they drop into everlasting burnings. I know there are also children of God who, being now justified freely, [Rom. 5:1] having found redemption in the blood of Christ, [Eph. 1:7] for the present feel no temptation. God hath said to their enemies, "Touch not mine anointed, and do my children no harm." [See 1 Chron. 16:22] And for this season, it may be for weeks or months, he causeth them to "ride on high places;" [Deut. 32:13] he beareth them as on eagles' wings, [Exod. 19:4] above all the fiery darts of the wicked one. [Eph. 6:16] But this state will not last always; as we may learn from that single consideration, -- that the Son of God himself, in the days of his flesh, was tempted even to the end of his life. [Heb. 2:18; 4:15; 6:7] Therefore, so let his servant expect to be; for "it is enough that he be as his Master." [Luke 6:40]

9. Christian perfection, therefore, does not imply (as some men seem to have imagined) an exemption either from ignorance or mistake, or infirmities or temptations. Indeed, it is only another term for holiness. They are two names for the same thing. Thus every one that is perfect is holy, and every one that is holy is, in the Scripture sense, perfect. Yet we may, lastly, observe, that neither in this respect is there any absolute perfection on earth. There is no perfection of degrees, as it is termed; none which does not admit of a continual increase. So that how much soever any man hath attained, or in how high a degree soever he is perfect, he hath still need to "grow in grace," [2 Pet. 3:18] and daily to advance in the knowledge and love of God his Saviour. [see Phil. 1:9]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

103 posted on 04/02/2011 10:41:23 PM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose
You did of course actually read that before you cut and pasted it, correct?

You also may want to post your source, for others to get context.

If you can link Shirts you can link the words of the stable as well...

104 posted on 04/02/2011 10:55:45 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: BlueMoose

You will also note, sticking to the actually subject and aside from the obfuscation attempt, that as you peruse the Wesley Center site there is no “Praise to the man” song to John, nor does he stamp our hand to get into heaven...


105 posted on 04/02/2011 11:14:44 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: ejonesie22

OK John Wesly Sermon 40


106 posted on 04/03/2011 2:52:43 AM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: ejonesie22

Yes I can make positive statements of Praise toward john Wesley as I do with out worshiping him. These positive statements are considered (by me) as praise for his work.


107 posted on 04/03/2011 4:02:02 AM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: restornu
Kiss My Ass Pictures, Images and Photos
108 posted on 04/03/2011 5:26:34 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: BlueMoose
Yet “Praise TO the Man” is far more than that, isn't it...

Context BM, context...

109 posted on 04/03/2011 5:35:15 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: svcw

Mosiah 3: 24
24 And thus saith the Lord: They shall stand as a bright testimony against this people, at the judgment day; whereof they shall be judged, every man according to his works, whether they be good, or whether they be evil.

CINO’s work endless posting vile, unkindness, mean wretched things from their hearts daily.....

Proverbs 1
31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.


110 posted on 04/03/2011 7:35:47 AM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu
Well, once again I have know idea what those versus have to do with a bunny. Why your replies surprise me is a mystery, they shouldn't.
111 posted on 04/03/2011 8:37:44 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: svcw

Once one clicks on the your bunny the deception is over....


112 posted on 04/03/2011 9:07:28 AM PDT by restornu
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To: ejonesie22

Yes, Words have many definitions. A group of people can read a sentence and each one can form a different meaning depending on how they view the context clues. Some will form their understanding from the words as written and others will use external source to form the understanding of the sentence.


113 posted on 04/03/2011 9:39:52 AM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: svcw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvwdL9l_gJ8&NR=1&feature=fvwp


114 posted on 04/03/2011 9:52:18 AM PDT by BlueMoose
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To: BlueMoose

115 posted on 04/03/2011 10:00:43 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: restornu; svcw
CINO’s work endless posting vile, unkindness, mean wretched things from their hearts daily.....

the horror

116 posted on 04/03/2011 11:08:49 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: BlueMoose; ejonesie22
Some will form their understanding from the words as written and others will use external source to form the understanding of the sentence.

Here are some words that need no translation.

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 1"

"Are Mormons Christian-Part 2"

117 posted on 04/03/2011 12:14:57 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (White House war strategy 2011: Sun Tzu meets Barney Fife..H/T Iowahawk)
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To: restornu
Huh? Now that is something I would not even thought to do. There was no deception just a bunny. If I had wanted to say “kiss my ass”, I would have.
118 posted on 04/03/2011 12:20:16 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: svcw

stop while you are head the bunny is pointing to lip smack behind!


119 posted on 04/03/2011 12:42:25 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu

120 posted on 04/03/2011 12:52:10 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: greyfoxx39
Nice. Very concise and not boring.
121 posted on 04/03/2011 12:54:00 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: restornu

122 posted on 04/03/2011 1:03:36 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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THX1138


123 posted on 04/03/2011 2:37:49 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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Do mormons ever read the Bible or any true historical perspective? Me thinks not.


124 posted on 04/03/2011 10:36:51 PM PDT by NoRedTape
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