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Why God Isnít Doing Well. Our Creator isnít very popular in our secularist, left-wing culture.
National Review ^ | 04/05/2011 | Dennis Prager

Posted on 04/06/2011 6:46:37 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

God is not doing very well these days.

Here are four reasons why:

The first is that increasingly large numbers of men and women attend university, and Western universities have become essentially secular (and leftist) seminaries. Just as the agenda of traditional Christian and Jewish seminaries is to produce religious Christians and religious Jews, the agenda of Western universities is to produce (left-wing) secularists. The difference is that Christian and Jewish seminaries are honest about their agenda, while the universities still claim they have neither a secularist nor a political agenda.

The more university education a person receives, the more likely he is to hold secular and left-wing views. The secular Left argues that this correlation is due to the fact that a college graduate knows more and thinks more clearly and therefore gravitates leftward and toward secularism. But if you believe that the average college graduate is a clear and knowledgeable thinker as a result of his or her time at university, I have more than one bridge to sell you. A radio talk-show host for 29 years, I long ago began asking callers who made foolish comments what graduate school they had attended. It takes higher education to learn that America and Israel are villains, that men and women have essentially the same natures, that human nature is good, that ever-larger governments create wealth, etc.

A second reason God is not doing well among Westerners these days is that many members of the Jewish and Christian clergy decided that their primary role was not to advocate their religion’s moral and religious standards, but rather (1) to make congregants comfortable (“Don’t call me ‘Pastor’ [or ‘Rabbi,’ or ‘Father’], call me Jerry”) and (2) to promulgate the values they learned at their secular left-wing universities.

A third reason God is not doing well is that most of the men and women who are products of this secular left-wing education (meaning a large majority of Western men and women) are theologically, intellectually, and emotionally ill-prepared to deal with all the unjust suffering in the world. I will never forget a Swedish pastor’s reaction to the 1994 sinking of the Estonia, a ferry that capsized in the Baltic between Estonia and Sweden leaving 852 passengers and crew dead. He said he could not believe in a God who allowed such injustice to take place.

This pastor spoke for vast numbers of modern Western men and women. The existence of so much unjust suffering in the world has strongly contributed to their rejecting belief in God. And undoubtedly the devastation caused by the Japanese earthquake and tsunami has further reinforced many individuals’ rejection of God.

Of course, none of us has a fully coherent solution to the problem of theodicy. But the problem is not exactly new. Every great religion has dealt with it, and most of the brilliant minds in history retained their faith in God despite all the unjust suffering they saw.

The difference today is that life has been so good for most Westerners that suffering is no longer regarded as part of life, but as an aberration that can be done away with. Meanwhile, the liberal wings of Christianity and Judaism are too influenced by secularism to make an effective religious case for God, whom the religious Left has largely rendered a celestial buddy.

The fourth reason is Islamic violence and the tepid response to it by the liberal churches and synagogues. It would seem pretty clear that a major, albeit almost never acknowledged, reason for the huge audiences for recent books advocating atheism has been the massive amount of evil committed in God’s name by radical Muslims. Nothing creates atheism as much as evil done in God’s name.

That is why the pathetically weak responses from within mainstream — i.e., liberal — Christianity and Judaism have only added to the contempt for God and religion sown by beheadings and suicide bombings in Allah’s name. The liberal Christian and Jewish responses have been to attack fellow Christians and Jews who have focused on Islamist terror. Instead of drawing attention to the damage radical Islam does to the name of God, liberal Christians and Jews focus their anger on co-religionists who do speak out on this issue and label them “Islamophobes.”

That God is not doing well in the Western world may trouble God. But it is we humans who should be most troubled. The moral, intellectual, artistic, and demographic decline in Western Europe (people in secular countries don’t even have the will to reproduce themselves) is only gaining momentum. And the consequences of that decline will be far more devastating than all the tsunamis and all the earthquakes that may come our way.

— Dennis Prageris a nationally syndicated radio talk-show host and columnist.


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: college; god; secular

1 posted on 04/06/2011 6:46:45 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I personally feel that the leftist feel good spirtuality type Christian churches have done more damage than the university. Jesus was a femminist, Jesus was an environmentalist, god shouldn’t be referred to as He. The church my mother made me go to for most of my childhood embraced every bit of revision and PC feeling they could shove down ones throat. Its what turned me into the agnostic I am today and made my brother an atheist. Most of the kids I went to church with that I’ve talked to feel the same way for various reasons.


2 posted on 04/06/2011 6:54:10 AM PDT by utherdoul
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To: SeekAndFind

What a moronic title to a story. God is perfect, His Will is perfect, God is perfection.


3 posted on 04/06/2011 7:03:10 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: SeekAndFind

I just talked to Him and He’s feeling fine n dandy...it’s just the rest of you’ns that He’s worried about.
; )


4 posted on 04/06/2011 7:03:29 AM PDT by ozark hilljilly (Y'all had enough, yet?)
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To: SeekAndFind
imho, I don't think it's only true for the Western world, but indeed for much of the "westernised" world.

I like the second reason stated in the article quite a lot as I see that many people are actually attracted to stricter congregations.

5 posted on 04/06/2011 7:05:24 AM PDT by Cronos (Greeks were artisans and Romans were engineers: adaptive, practical, indomitable engineers.)
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To: SeekAndFind
I will never forget a Swedish pastor’s reaction to the 1994 sinking of the Estonia, a ferry that capsized in the Baltic between Estonia and Sweden leaving 852 passengers and crew dead. He said he could not believe in a God who allowed such injustice to take place.

This article hits it on the head when it places the blame on secular left-wing education leaving are theologically, intellectually, and emotionally ill-prepared to deal with all the unjust suffering in the world

6 posted on 04/06/2011 7:06:31 AM PDT by Cronos (Greeks were artisans and Romans were engineers: adaptive, practical, indomitable engineers.)
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To: stylecouncilor

Prager ping....


7 posted on 04/06/2011 7:11:11 AM PDT by onedoug (If)
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To: SeekAndFind
http://www.halfsigma.com/2010/11/exit-poll.html Whites without a college degree voted 62% Republican, compared to 57% of whites with a college degree. The Republican Party is clearly the favored party of blue collar whites. This is a significant increase from 2008 when only 54% of whites without a college degree voted Republican, and the gap between college and non-college graduate whites grew from 2% to 5%. It's counterintuitive that Republicans are both the party of the rich as well as the party of blue collar whites.
8 posted on 04/06/2011 7:18:40 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: svcw

How can a perfect God create the leftist vermin? I’ve been struggling with this question for a long time.

We are all terrible sinners but there is something innately defective about the vermin. They are utterly demented, selfish, violent, and cruel. They have no capacity for spirituality and goodness whatsoever. They are not just “sheep gone astray” but the total incarnation of evil and depravity. They behave exactly as any primitive animal in nature but with a cruel murderous style that would make a black widow aghast.

I truly do not believe that all humans were created in God’s image. It’s more likely that some sinners were created in God’s image and the rest are lousy imitations resulting from the chaos of nature. They cannot be saved and simply need to be defeated.


9 posted on 04/06/2011 7:24:58 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: Soothesayer
God did not create sin. It is called free will. Unfortunately we can all suffer because others are stupid in their choice of will.
10 posted on 04/06/2011 7:27:16 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: SeekAndFind
If children attend GODLESS government K-12 schools they **will** learn to think and reason godlessly. They must do this simply to cooperate with the classroom instruction and complete assignment.

Result: Do this for a few generations and we will have a population that thinks godlessly. At best, we have a population that is well trained to compartmentalize their faith.

If conservatives shut down the government schools and worked to see that every child had access to a **private** and **conservative** education that thoroughly integrate their specific Judeo Christian faith and our Founding Fathers’ principles we would soon see the following:

**In 10 to 12 years our nation's college classrooms would be filled to the brim with students capable of defending their faith and our nation's founding principles. Their Marxist professors would wither before their righteousness.

** in !0 to !2 years our campuses would be filled with Judeo Christian oriented fraternities and sororities and service clubs, and conservative activist clubs.

** In 20 years these righteous youth will have taken their places in the cultural leadership positions of our nation.

11 posted on 04/06/2011 7:29:17 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: Cronos

You can become a pastor in Sweden with only a secular education?


12 posted on 04/06/2011 7:31:12 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Why God Isn’t Doing Well. Our Creator isn’t very popular in our secularist, left-wing culture.

God is doing just fine, thanks. I think it's the secular left who will find He has the last laugh on this topic.

13 posted on 04/06/2011 7:32:28 AM PDT by workerbee (We're not scared, Maobama -- we're pissed off!)
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To: allmendream

Those are very interesting stats. But what does God’s popularity have to do with it?


14 posted on 04/06/2011 7:37:28 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: svcw

I don’t buy the free will argument at all!

Behavior is not random. It is the product of genetics and the environment. Every one of us is familiar with evil deeds that are incomprehensible. There is a reason they are incomprehensible!

I’ll admit that I’m a terrible sinner. I break every one of the ten commandments a few thousand times a day. I break “thou shall not kill” a billion times a minute.

However, there are some sins that are completely outside of my nature: the desire to kill children, the desire to seek total fulfillment through atheism and hedonism, and racism. I am 100% certain that these 3 things do not exist within my soul in any form. The rest are a different story.


15 posted on 04/06/2011 7:37:28 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: SeekAndFind
The difference today is that life has been so good for most Westerners that suffering is no longer regarded as part of life, but as an aberration that can be done away with.

Bingo! The people I know who are most distressed by the possibility of suffering are the ones who are farthest from the actual thing--and I suspect (perhaps unjustly) that their concern is not so much for the sufferings of others, as for the possibility of their own suffering.

To prevent this from ever happening, they will embrace any Draconian and restrictive policy to stave off even the possibility of suffering, and define this as virtue, or at least, "common sense.".

Trust or faith in God is not a practical option for them, as He is not controllable, nor can He be guaranteed to answer prayer according to your specifications or with your particular ends in mind, but may have to consider others as well. So God is left out of the equation--they're going to have to handle this as efficiently and effectively as the human mind can define the problem and devise a solution to it with the expenditure of as little energy and unpleasantness (for them) as is possible.

In the real world, this usually results in restriction of freedoms (for the people they define as the greatest threats to their lives and safety--which, oddly, sometimes seem not to be the persons actually desirous of killing them, but those people who speak against those who have called for their deaths and the destruction of their way of life--as well as for anyone who challenges any of the assumptions of the Doctrine of Our Un-Suffering). God is not a reliable datum in the equation because He cannot be guaranteed to work as ordered (or at all--He may have different ideas altogether, which is why they think it better not to invite Him at all, and to jeer at those who do put their faith in Him as being unrealistic and unproductive).

Once you've assumed that humans can understand and prevent all suffering through the exercise of the human intellect and human power, you have the basic building blocks for a truly repressive and inhuman (and frankly, boring) culture: a culture for the "thinking" (i.e., "degreed") elite who think they can avoid suffering, and that other people are the tools to effect this end--and they can salve their consciences (if any) with the mantra used by all oppressive regimes: that "it's for their own good, as well" even if they don't realize it, and maybe even especially if they don't--and the more it hurts 'em, the better it's doing 'em.

16 posted on 04/06/2011 7:37:28 AM PDT by Dunstan McShane
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To: SeekAndFind

This is news?


17 posted on 04/06/2011 7:38:08 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

This article is in the Religion forum. :)


18 posted on 04/06/2011 7:39:44 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SeekAndFind

God is fine. It’s us that have the problem.


19 posted on 04/06/2011 7:40:07 AM PDT by Tulane
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To: Soothesayer
How can a perfect God create the leftist vermin?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here's the recipe:

**Take innocent child

**Remove him from his parents at a tender age and segregate him into age segregated groups of other children when he learns to model the behavior of children. (Make certain that this ingredient is completely free of an contamination from Judeo Chrisitan based thinking. )

** Throw in heaps and heaps of godless thinking and reasoning.

** Make sure the child is stirred thoroughly for 13 or more years from pre-K to 12 th grade in this godless worldview. This is an important step because the child must think and reason godlessly simply to cooperate with the godless classroom indoctrination.

**To be certain that the above steps happen, tax the parents heavily so that it is necessary for both parents to work in the salt mines just to pay the taxes.

** For extra richness send to college for more godless indoctrination for another 4 or more years.

P.S. God is not needed for the above to happen. We can do this all by ourselves! :-)

20 posted on 04/06/2011 7:42:03 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: Tulane
God is fine. It’s us that have the problem.

It has always been thus.

21 posted on 04/06/2011 7:42:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: SeekAndFind

The author linked the idea that a education at a University would make one secular and a leftist.

The left gets the vast majority of its votes from the uneducated - there are more of them. They get more votes from those who have advanced degrees, a small group, and those with no high school diploma, a large group.

Whites with college degrees, on the whole, favor Republicans.

Those who make more money, as a group, favor Republicans.

Those who have college degrees, as a group, tend to make a lot more money.


22 posted on 04/06/2011 8:07:51 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: wintertime

You are mistaken. I experienced exactly the same recipe you mentioned plus a left wing family. The difference is that I have never been a lover of the world. Even as a young child I was interested in fantasy and the spiritual world.

As a result, I totally broke free from the leftist worldview at age 22. Belief in God has not yet come but we’ll see.

The leftists I’m talking about are the ones who were never so inclined. They were innocent as children but they were born without any innate resistance to liberalism and the hedonist lifestyle. They totally succumbed to its evil allure while a few others survived it...even for a time.


23 posted on 04/06/2011 8:07:55 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: SeekAndFind
Prager focuses on the effects of college indoctrination. I agree that the less time spent in these godless institutions the better it is for the young person and for society as a whole.

Possible solution:

Charles Murray is right! We should move to qualifying exams to test the mastery of individual subjects. The process could start as early a kindergarten.

Nearly all content could be placed on the Internet and be available to the student for free. Financially, the makers of the course content could do very well if they included some advertising on their sites.

When the child mastered a level they would immediately move to the next level.

Testing would be done by private businesses or organizations and the identity of the child could be assured in the same way identities are checked with MCAT or LSAT exams are done now, or by means of retinal or fingerprint scans.

Yes, there are some professions that require attendance on a college or university campus, but even in fields such as medicine, dentistry, engineering, and nursing a great deal of content could be done through the Internet with testing done by qualifying exam.

Benefits:

** Bright children could move through the system faster.

My own homeschooled children entered college at the ages of 13, 12, and 13. All finished all general courses and Calculus III by the age of 15. Two earned B.S. degrees in math by the age of 18. One earned a masters in math by 20. The oldest was equally successful by attending college at night, and working on his full-time interest during the day.

** Slower or normal intelligence children would not be able to move on to the next level until they had mastered the lower level basics.

** A small cottage industry would spring up to provide tutoring services.

** Our nation's parents and children would regain the confidence that our early citizens took for granted. It **is** possible to teach your own children. It is possible to be an autodidact.

** The cost of educating a child could be greatly greatly reduced!

** My own children entered the workforce years earlier than is typical. This amounts to more than a quarter of a million dollars to a million dollars in earnings over what their contemporaries will earn in a lifetime.

** Our young people will be in the workforce sooner and will have less debt. This will increase the likelihood that they will marry and start families earlier. This will decrease the amount of out of wedlock sex, “sleeping around”, “living-together”, and “hanging-out”.

** The extra wealth that these young people generate by entering the workforce earlier will increase our GDP.

** Employers will not feel as much need to use college degrees as a means to screen applicants for aptitude and persistence.

** The heavy burden of property taxes would be greatly reduced. This would benefit citizens of all ages, but it would especially make homeownership much more likely for young adults.

** If young adults can move into the workforce , make progress in their careers, own a home, and build wealth sooner, and have a reduced tax and school debt burden, they will be less likely to prolong their adolescence into their late twenties and early thirties. They will be more likely to marry, own homes, and raise families.

Yes, there are some areas that do not work well with testing. English composition is one area that comes to mind. There are also some laboratory experiences and mentoring that likely are best done in a “school-like” setting, but much of a child's education could and should be done outside of our prison-like K-12 schools, and Marxist infected colleges and universities.

24 posted on 04/06/2011 8:27:37 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: Soothesayer
You were one of the lucky 15%. You beat the odds.

Studies show that 85% of children from homes that seriously practice and live their Christian religion will leave their faith 2 years after graduating from high school.

95% of homeschoolers from families that are active in their faith will remain faithful.

Studies also show that children in government schools who claim to be Christian hold beliefs that are utterly un-Christian and at best are nothing more than feel-good humanism.

Yes, I can provide links.

25 posted on 04/06/2011 8:32:51 AM PDT by wintertime
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To: SeekAndFind
Our curent society is exactly what we deserve for letting anti-Christian radical fascists run the education system for nearly sixty years. Those who want a fascist nobility have turned the education system in this nation into a propaganda and recruitment tool. Th group with that goal is the democrat party, the same party that has openly advocated the elimination of God from society ever since the late eighteen hundreds. You cannot be a democrat and remain Christian in more than name only for long. Just look at the state of black churches where supposedly the Word of God is still the primary anchor of the faith. They have become recruiting grounds and operations centers where democrat politicians speak and raise money, and where black folks are trained that voting democrat is far more important than voting for someone who supports Christ and Christian beliefs.

The democrat party is now and always has been the party of slavery, sedition, secession, civil war, KKK terrorism, Jim Crow laws, eugenics laws, anti-Semitic immigration restrictions (in response to Nazi Nuremberg laws), creators of anti-Christian mythology, the welfare plantation system, voter fraud, voter intimidation, and the eugenics driven mass murder of minority infants. The democrat party has to be so thoroughly destroyed as a national political party that it is no longer a factor in national politics. Refusing to support less than pure Republican alternatives over a pet peeve, sitting out elections, or anything else you do that keeps you from helping or influences others to not help us rid ourselves of these parasites while we are forced to continue drinking democrat arsenic, is either fifth column democrat propaganda or agreement that we should commit national suicide. Obama and the entire democrat infrastructure need to be fought until, to paraphrase Bull Halsey, “… democrat is only spoken in hell”.

It’s long past time we face the fact that there will never be a working two party system in this country as long as the democrat party continues to exist.

The Democrat party is the party of:

Democrat led secession to avoid the ending slavery

Democrat led Civil War against in the Union

Democrat Andrew Johnson vetoes the Civil Rights Act of 1866

Democrat “black codes” ignore Civil Rights Acts of 1866 & 1871

Democrat Justices strike down the criminal provisions of the 1871 KKK Act

Democrat disenfranchisement of Black and Indian voters in former Confederate states

Democrat state blood laws define unconstitutional multiple classes of citizenship

Democrat sponsored and led creation of state eugenics laws 20s

Democrat FDR deepening economic depression with illegal programs

Democrat FDR attempts to expand the Supreme Court rather than obey Court rulings

Democrat FDR illegally imprisons Japanese, German, and Italian, citizens without due process

Democrat ignoring of the 1871 Act leads to Republican passage of 1964 Civil Rights Act

Democrat LBJ breaking into the SS trust fund for Great Society funding

Jimmy Carter unilaterally supporting the Ayatollah Khomeini and ignoring our treaties with Iran

Democrat led government unions ignore and even fight in court the effects of elections

Democrat creation of agencies and institutions to destroy private property rights

Democrat Fwank ridiculing the Bush attempts to increase regulation on Mortgage lending

Democrat Dodd ignoring regulations and blatantly manipulating markets on behalf of his donors

Democrat Hussein Obama and Congress nationalize financial and automobile industries

Democrat Hussein Obama violates law by refusing to accept loan repayments

Democrat Hussein Obama bypasses Congressional oversight by appointing “czars”

Democrat Hussein Obama establishes compensation limits on private businesses

Democrat congress conspires under color of law to deprive citizens of their right to life

Democrat congress conspires under color of law to create multiple classes of citizenship

Democrat HB3200 ignores Eskra v. Morton and creates titles of ignobility

Democrat “Hate Crime” legislation which creates unconstitutional new classes of citizens

Americans can no longer ignore the criminal anti-Constitutional nature of and purpose of the democrat party. As can be clearly seen by the repeated democrat establishment and attempts to establish multiple classes of citizenship throughout its history, the democrat party is now and always has been dedicated to a single goal. That single goal is to undermine, destroy, and replace the Republic created by the Constitution of the United States with a totalitarian Nobility that demotes the majority of citizens to the status of slaves. Any who may doubt that fact in spite of the democrat party history need only look at how effectively democrat created welfare plantations accomplish exactly the same thing that reconstruction era black codes did.

This continuing criminal enterprise must be disbanded, those guilty of RICO Act violations, those guilty of sedition, and those guilty of treason, must be tried. All who are convicted must be incarcerated among the general population in federal prisons.

Regards

26 posted on 04/06/2011 9:17:30 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Soothesayer

Ok. You say you don’t by free will, then go to explain free will.
You are correct behavior is not random IE free will.


27 posted on 04/06/2011 10:13:34 AM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: allmendream

Great chart!


28 posted on 04/06/2011 10:32:26 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wintertime

Great statistics. Especially about the government schools.


29 posted on 04/06/2011 10:38:54 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: svcw

I said no such thing. By “inclined” I mean tendencies that are part of a person’s nature.

For example, it is impossible for a leftist to comprehend spiritual things, beauty, selfless love, or compassion. Look at those leftist males in colleges who rape drunk women and think nothing of it. Look at the millions of young women who kill a child at 34 weeks gestation and go on with their horrible lives without a shred of guilt! Life itself is worthless to them, a disposable commodity. Do you honestly believe that these...things...have ever had a spiritual experience? It is totally outside of their nature!

They were innocent as children but, like I said before, they had no resistance whatsoever to corruption. As a result, they instantly succumbed to corruption upon the very moment of exposure. In many ways they were not true leftists upon conception. They were merely weak hosts. A weak “immune system” so to speak. Then they were exposed and became un-living (”zombified”) leftist vermin.


30 posted on 04/06/2011 11:39:30 AM PDT by Soothesayer (smallpox is not a person)
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To: SeekAndFind

Wow, another awesome article from Prager! I find him rather dull on the radio; but he consistently writes brilliant and succinct columns.


31 posted on 04/06/2011 1:23:20 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Soothesayer

Maybe Romans 1 will help.


32 posted on 04/06/2011 1:45:42 PM PDT by Jay Thomas (If not for my faith in Christ, I would despair.)
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To: svcw

It’s not because they are “free” but rather because theya re slaves.

And if you have never felt the weight of original sin, do not call yourselves Christians. I am verily persuaded original sin is the greatest burden of a true convert; this ever grieves the regenerate soul, the sanctified soul. The indwelling of sin in the heart is the burden of a converted person; it is the burden of a true Christian. He continually cries out, “O! who will deliver me from this body of death,’ this indwelling corruption in my heart? This is that which disturbs a poor soul most. And, therefore, if you never felt this inward corruption, if you never saw that God might justly curse you for it, indeed, my dear friends, you may speak peace to your hearts, but I fear, nay, I know, there is no true peace.

George Whitefield


33 posted on 04/06/2011 2:31:55 PM PDT by Augustinian monk (NAFTA/GATT- How 's that free trade thingy workin out, America?)
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To: Augustinian monk

The result of behavior is choice IE free will.
We are all slaves to sin, if we were not there would have been no need for the Cross.
Christ took my sin burden, my heart is free, my soul is freed by the Blood of the Lamb.
One will never understand Grace until they understand they do not deserve it.


34 posted on 04/06/2011 2:39:33 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Rashputin
Our curent society is exactly what we deserve for letting anti-Christian radical fascists run the education system for nearly sixty years the progressives of the 1800s establish socialist-funded, collectivist-managed, compulsory government schools in the mid-1800s to early 1900s that fed children a generic and lukewarm Protestantism.

We know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth. And...Given the fundamental nature of all socialist programs it was INEVITABLE that government schooling would be utterly taken over by those who are socialist ( communist really) and collectivist and that they would inexorably become completely godless in their worldview. .

I point this out because inevitably there are people who think that if we could return to some magical period in government schooling that somehow they would be "fixed". This is not so. Government schools are socialist and that we have today's monstrosity was inevitable!

One final point....If we move to socialist medicine, it won't be that bad for a generation or so. The reason is the values and culture of the doctors, nurses, and administration with their privately acquired training will remain intact. It is only after these people retire and die off and their influence fades will we see the true ugly face of socialized medicine. Inevitably, some will continue to offer the same argument seen with government schooling.:

If only we could return to health basics. ( Education basics, phonics, traditional math.)

If only we could have medical care like we did 20, 30, or 40 years ago. (If only we could have schools like we did when I, my father, or my grandmother went to school. )

We need to get rid of doctors, nurses, and administrator's unions. ( Teachers unions)

Better people need to run for the health board ( school board).

We need to get doctors with higher MCATs. ( Teachers with higher SATs)

We need to get rid of the Marxist indoctrination of doctors, nurses, and administrators. ( Teacher colleges and teachers.)

Do you see. The problem that can NOT be fixed is that government schools are the very definition of a compulsory and collectivist managed ( school board) socialist welfare entitlement.

Government schools must be abolished because they can't be fixed. Socialism can't be fixed.

35 posted on 04/06/2011 3:16:46 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: SeekAndFind

No disrespect for the truly religious Lutherans out there, but the Swedish National Church is more a social organization now and not Lutheran, and is barely Christian, so a Swedish “pastor” saying this, well, that’s what one can expect.


36 posted on 04/06/2011 11:29:40 PM PDT by Cronos (Greeks were artisans and Romans were engineers: adaptive, practical, indomitable engineers.)
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To: allmendream

sorry — I meant to reply to you in the post above


37 posted on 04/06/2011 11:30:19 PM PDT by Cronos (Greeks were artisans and Romans were engineers: adaptive, practical, indomitable engineers.)
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To: Dunstan McShane; SeekAndFind
The people I know who are most distressed by the possibility of suffering are the ones who are farthest from the actual thing--and I suspect (perhaps unjustly) that their concern is not so much for the sufferings of others, as for the possibility of their own suffering.

A very good point and quite true.

38 posted on 04/06/2011 11:31:58 PM PDT by Cronos (Greeks were artisans and Romans were engineers: adaptive, practical, indomitable engineers.)
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To: allmendream
My sister-in-law who is a professor (double phd) and highly conservative is an exception, but most in the academic world tend to leftist views. I guess because the academic world like the monastic world or the world of the kibbutzes CAN be socialist even marxist (in the original sense), but the world outside these small communities cannot.

Marx and other's failure was that they extrapolated these "ideal" societies to the larger society as a whole and it cannot work. The academic world is one where a lot of time seniority does make sense, money is immaterial, yet this does not make sense in the real world

39 posted on 04/06/2011 11:35:10 PM PDT by Cronos (Greeks were artisans and Romans were engineers: adaptive, practical, indomitable engineers.)
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To: Cronos
I suppose it depends upon the field.

When Universities are busy making up fields of studies like “Ethnic studies” “Womyns studies”, etc, etc - it is no wonder that they skew the average towards fuzzy thinking jargon laden liberalism.

My own university education in science I encountered mostly conservatives, including a very staunch anti-Communist escapee from Russia who would say “Every day I thank Ronald Reagan in my prayers” and “in this country you have wonderful saying - ‘no such thing as free lunch’.”.

40 posted on 04/07/2011 6:12:50 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: SeekAndFind

God’s doing just fine.

It’s our secular, left-wing culture that isn’t faring so well.


41 posted on 04/07/2011 6:15:42 AM PDT by Nickname
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To: SeekAndFind
".. increasingly large numbers of men and women attend university, and Western universities have become essentially secular (and leftist) seminaries. Just as the agenda of traditional Christian and Jewish seminaries is to produce religious Christians and religious Jews, the agenda of Western universities is to produce (left-wing) secularists. The difference is that Christian and Jewish seminaries are honest about their agenda, while the universities still claim they have neither a secularist nor a political agenda. ...."

Nihilists/existentialists/materialists/and Shameless Democrats have no other option than to __lie to themselves__:

The Ten Commandments of Nihilism: Left, Bereft, and F'ed

The Graven and Craven Images of the Nihilist (2nd commandment))

The Third Commandment of Nihilism: You Shall Have a Vanity Plate in Your Head

Evolution vs. Revolution: On Spending Timelessness With Yoursoph (4th commandment)

42 posted on 04/07/2011 9:58:57 AM PDT by Matchett-PI ("Freedom's Just Another Word For Nothing Left to Tax " ~ Gagdad Bob)
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To: wintertime

ever notice that the various cults of the 1970s recruited
from the kids of the years just after prayer was forbidden?


43 posted on 04/07/2011 12:19:55 PM PDT by cycjec
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To: Soothesayer

the immune system analogy is interesting. I’m trying to
recall an Irving Babbit passage about how a leftist (that
wasn’t his term) arrives at an *inverted* scale of values,
not simply a defective one. but I’m just no up too finding
the book and looking at this time.


44 posted on 04/07/2011 12:24:23 PM PDT by cycjec
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t think God loses any sleep regarding popularity contests.


45 posted on 04/07/2011 12:58:55 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

RE: I don’t think God loses any sleep


“He who watches over you will not slumber; indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.” ( Psalms 121:3,4)


46 posted on 04/07/2011 1:12:52 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: cycjec
ever notice that the various cults of the 1970s recruited
from the kids of the years just after prayer was forbidden?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hope you are not suggesting that a sprinkle of prayer and scripture in the morning would fix socialist, collectivist, and voter mob run schools? We know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth!

The 1970s was merely a result of at least 3 generations of secular humanist curriculum. My grandmother who was born in 1894, attended government schools that taught from a strictly secularist worldview. Her education was remarkably different in nearly every way from that of my mother and me. Yes, my grandmother had a sprinkle of prayer in the morning. Yes, her teachers were Christian and brought their influence into the class room, but the worldview of the curriculum was officially godless.

I attended government school from 1962 to 1964. Even by then, my high school my government teachers were already pushing the boundaries of edgy. And...We still have a dab of prayer and scripture in the morning with an occasional carol or hymn sung by the school chorus.

We can not send generations of children into godless government schools and expect our nation to thrive. Eventually, the culture will unravel. In the 1970s the culture finally began tearing at the seams.

47 posted on 04/07/2011 1:17:06 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: cycjec
ever notice that the various cults of the 1970s recruited
from the kids of the years just after prayer was forbidden?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I hope you are not suggesting that a sprinkle of prayer and scripture in the morning would fix socialist, collectivist, and voter mob run schools? We know what Christ does with the lukewarm. He spits them out of His mouth!

The 1970s was merely a result of at least 3 generations of secular humanist curriculum. My grandmother who was born in 1894, attended government schools that taught from a strictly secularist worldview. Her education was remarkably different in nearly every way from that of my mother and me. Yes, my grandmother had a sprinkle of prayer in the morning. Yes, her teachers were Christian and brought their influence into the class room, but the worldview of the curriculum was officially godless.

I attended government school from 1962 to 1964. Even by then, my high school my government teachers were already pushing the boundaries of edgy. And...We still have a dab of prayer and scripture in the morning with an occasional carol or hymn sung by the school chorus.

We can not send generations of children into godless government schools and expect our nation to thrive. Eventually, the culture will unravel. In the 1970s the culture finally began tearing at the seams.

48 posted on 04/07/2011 1:17:33 PM PDT by wintertime
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