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CatholicTV calls for "Benevolent Dictatorship"?!
Above Top Secret ^ | 04-08-2011 | thedeadlyrhythm

Posted on 04/08/2011 2:27:55 AM PDT by HarleyD

This may be one of the more disturbing things I have ever seen. This video is shown to people, and even more frightening, many are likely inspired by it. This guy basically says that the problem with our country is that "everyone can vote", both ignorant know-nothings who only care about themselves(aka people who support abortion, gay marriage, etc), and informed people(aka people who agree with his/the organizations particular views)

and this is all presented in such a way as if it is incontrovertible. as if having an opinion that a woman has a right to choose or that homosexuality is someone's own business means you havent read a book in your life and are just saying that because you only care about your own "selfish interests".

and scariest of all, they actually use the words "Benevolent Dictatorship", where only those who agree with this guy's views are allowed to vote. true freedom. i think im gonna be sick


TOPICS: Catholic; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: benevolentdictator; catholic; dictator; greatcatholicmonarch; helltoupee; michaelvoris; monarchism; realcatholictv; romancatholicism; voris
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See video at link: Benevolent Dictatorship
1 posted on 04/08/2011 2:27:59 AM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

Heaven is a benevolent dictatorship. Right?

But this isn’t heaven. The problem with all human government including ours is that it is run by people. While we are on Earth, we will always have that problem. So even the best government conceived will be flawed by the requirement to man it with people.

To acknowledge this human failing isn’t the same as saying that there aren’t worse things than an ugly flawed constitutional republic.


2 posted on 04/08/2011 3:15:41 AM PDT by SampleMan (If all of the people currently oppressed shared a common geography, bullets would already be flying.)
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To: HarleyD
THE problem we have is universal suffrage.

Originally people had to own property to be able to vote.

It should be returned to some version of this: People who either serve in the military or have a net paying IN TO the government, etc., should vote.

Those on the dole or who pay nothing should have no say.

Sounds tough to today's wimply ears but that is how it was back when things were sane.

You CAN NOT have people who do nothing but parasite off of others be allowed to vote.

Why? Because they eventually get the hang of it and vote for craven politicians (i.e., Rats) who give them everything in return for votes.

Then the country is destroyed, which ours almost is.

Sounds crazy to the public-skool educated person, but, it's reality.

3 posted on 04/08/2011 3:17:11 AM PDT by caddie
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To: HarleyD

This Mr. Voris seems quite nutty, by modern standards, when he says that only the virtuous should be allowed to vote. How shall we test for virtue?

But he is echoing John Adams: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”


4 posted on 04/08/2011 3:22:30 AM PDT by iowamark
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To: HarleyD

I bet the trains would run on time...


5 posted on 04/08/2011 4:06:53 AM PDT by BigCinBigD (Northern flags in South winds flutter...)
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To: HarleyD
i think im gonna be sick

i think u already r
6 posted on 04/08/2011 4:24:58 AM PDT by LearsFool ("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
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To: HarleyD

Your post is ridiculous. I think thiose who support homosexuality & abortion are ruining the country. It’s not a freedom thing. It’s an intelligent, insightful thing. If you can’t recognize the problems those issues have brought upon us, then you are in some serious trouble.


7 posted on 04/08/2011 4:29:24 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: SampleMan

When you give any human absolute power, after awhile other people look like ants.


8 posted on 04/08/2011 4:43:20 AM PDT by chae (I was anti-Obama before it was cool)
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To: caddie
THE problem we have is universal suffrage.
Originally people had to own property to be able to vote.
It should be returned to some version of this: People who either serve in the military or have a net paying IN TO the government, etc., should vote.
Those on the dole or who pay nothing should have no say.
Sounds tough to today's wimply ears but that is how it was back when things were sane.
You CAN NOT have people who do nothing but parasite off of others be allowed to vote.

I agree 100% and have been ranting for years that only people with their own skin in the game should get the vote.

There are only two possible mechanisms by which a person acquires money from someone else which they did not earn themselves via work (or investment): (1) Charity; (2) Theft.

Charity is voluntary.

Since paying taxes is not voluntary, and is in fact enforced at gunpoint, social entitlement programs are literally armed robbery, with the government acting as the proxy thief.

Thus, it is obscene that the recipients of social welfare programs are permitted to vote. If only the payers vote, and they still vote to sustain some level of social welfare safety net programs, I would actually be fine with it because at least then it would be legitimate charity.

9 posted on 04/08/2011 4:53:10 AM PDT by Zeddicus
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To: HarleyD

“i think im gonna be sick”

This guy is just a garden variety idiot, and hardly represents the Catholic Church - or anything for that matter. If every nutjob makes you sick, you should carry a sack of airsick bags with you.


10 posted on 04/08/2011 5:06:11 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: HarleyD

Sadly many Catholic clergy haven fallen for the lies of socialism and similar nonsense, I had a nun once tell me that what America needed was a “mild form” of socialism. Well the good sister got her wish with Obama and the country is now nearly bankrupt.


11 posted on 04/08/2011 5:08:18 AM PDT by The Great RJ (The Bill of Rights: Another bill members of Congress haven't read.)
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To: The Great RJ
That's why the Vatican sent someone to clear out the fluff from these none's brains Vatican Ambassador: Social Justice is about relationships, not socialism
This is in contrast to socialism, he explained, which is an ideology in which private property and private interests are totally placed in the service of government policies. What the Pope proposes in ‘Caritas in Veritate,’ said Cardinal Turkson, is ‘achieving the common good without sacrificing personal, private interests, aspirations and desires.’

Cardinal Turkson said the Council was also surprised that the Pope’s concept of the ‘gift,’ was perceived in some circles as encouraging government welfare handouts. In ‘Caritas in Veritate,’ Pope Benedict described the concept of “gift” as a way to understand God’s love for men and women in his gift of life and his gift of Jesus.

Whether he intended to or not, Cardinal Turkson has now echoed what many conservative Catholics in America have been calling for repeatedly — subsidiarity in economic policy. More importantly, the Cardinal observes the heart of the matter in noting that a ‘handout’ and a ‘gift’ are not at all the same, with the latter being more in keeping with the Gospel message.

One of the key principles of Catholic social thought is known as the principle of subsidiarity. This tenet holds that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization which can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization. In other words, any activity which can be performed by a more decentralized entity should be. This principle is a bulwark of limited government and personal freedom. It conflicts with the passion for centralization and bureaucracy characteristic of the Welfare State.

You can do as we've done -- email this to your local priest/bishop and be a right holy pain in the *** until they get it in their heads. The Pope is doing his bit from the top down, we need to work from the top up and tell the bishops who aren't orthodox (small o) "clean up your act or git. And remember bad shepherds get judged much worse than bad sheep"
12 posted on 04/08/2011 5:24:11 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: HarleyD
"This may be one of the more disturbing things I have ever seen."

How many times a day do you say that? You may not agree with what this guy would use as a test of who should vote, but the idea that the franchise should be limited goes right back to the founding fathers. Every expansion of the franchise in this country has been shortly thereafter followed by an expansion of government proving the Founding Fathers knew what they were doing when they limited it in the first place.

I suspect there's a lot this guy says that you don't like and figured this one would be a good hot buttom issue with folks on FR, otherwise you wouldn't have that BS about "be sick" tacked on. I also suspect you would be more than happy to have a monarchy with Christ as King and those He appoints filling all government jobs, right?

13 posted on 04/08/2011 5:35:46 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: caddie

I fail to understand how it can be considered “equality” that the vote of a deadbeat, drug-addicted petty loser carries the same weight as that of a hard-working, law-abiding pillar of the community. The former contributes nothing, even philosophically, to his society, while the latter is the very core of it. All a vote does is allow the deadbeat to steal the fruits of the worker’s labor.


14 posted on 04/08/2011 5:42:56 AM PDT by IronJack (=)
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To: HarleyD
...scariest of all, they actually use the words "Benevolent Dictatorship", where only those who agree with this guy's views are allowed to vote. true freedom.

There are a subset of Catholic FReepers who refer to themselves as "monarchists", because a benevolent dictatorship (i.e. a monarchy) is their preferred/ideal form of government. Some of them actually cheered on the (perceived) demise of the USA and of free market capitalism after Obama was elected. One of their more vocal members was the recently banned B-Chan, but there are others who are still active and posting on Free Republic. I'm not surprised to hear that the supposedly conservative Michael Voris is a monarchist, too. It's not for nothing that he's referred to as part of the "Catholic Taliban".

God help the United States of America, if Catholic Monarchism is considered part of the "conservatism" that is promoted on Free Republic. Here's hoping that they get caught in their anti-Americanism, and quickly too.

What he means by web-based McCarthyism is what John L Allen (of the National Catholic Reporter) calls the “Catholic Taliban”.

Allen’s explanation of this term was recently spelled out to an audience at the University of Texas. It was necessary, Allen said, to strike “a balance between two extremes”. This is how he described these extremes:

“On the one extreme lies what my friend and colleague George Weigel correctly terms ‘Catholicism Lite’, meaning a watered-down, sold-out form of secularised religiosity, Catholic in name only. On the other is what I call ‘Taliban Catholicism’, meaning a distorted, angry form of the faith that knows only how to excoriate, condemn, and smash the TV sets of the modern world....
....Singled out for special attention was RealCatholicTV.com, which, accused the paper, is “hunting for ‘traitorous’ nuns, priests or bishops throughout the American Church”. “We’re no more engaged in a witch hunt than a doctor excising a cancer is engaged in a witch hunt,” said Michael Voris of RealCatholicTV.com and St Michael’s Media. “We’re just shining a spotlight on people who are Catholics who do not live the faith.”

-- from the thread Attacks build up on the ‘Taliban’ and the ‘McCarthyites’ of the Catholic blogosphere

15 posted on 04/08/2011 7:22:58 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: HarleyD
You'll have to admit that there's a serious problem once people who draw their livelihood from the government outnumber those who actually produce the wealth. The former group can then vote themselves more and more goodies without restraint.

I would also like to point out that neither Michael Voris, nor me, nor any other layman, speaks for the Catholic Church. The Magisterium is still the Pope & the bishops teaching in union with him.

16 posted on 04/08/2011 7:47:34 AM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Alex Murphy

I consider myself a Catholic Monarchist. This is because I’ve examined the prophecies involved and have not found them incongruent with either my faith or my personal political predilections. Should a true Catholic Monarch arise in my lifetime, I would seek emigration, as the USA is not a monarchy, and the whole GMC prophecy is wrapped up in Europe anyway. There’s no reason for it to influence American politics apart from a possible exodus of the conservative Catholic vote. Until that time, a Republic is still the most sensible way to go.


17 posted on 04/08/2011 7:48:48 AM PDT by Eepsy
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To: Eepsy

GCM prophecy, of course. A true divine right of Kings will be resurrected long before Detroit ever is....


18 posted on 04/08/2011 7:52:41 AM PDT by Eepsy
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To: Alex Murphy
I've heard more than a few Fundamentalists describe themselves as monarchists the same way. I'm not sure where the idea that such a thing was a good idea started, but I am sure it's gone way beyond only Catholics. In fact, the first place I ever heard of the idea was from fundamentalists who argued that a good Christian shouldn't even vote because they owed their allegiance to the King of Kings rather than any human system of government. It really goes beyond being anti-American since, at least the people I knew, hoped every government of every kind on earth would soon fail and that Christ would return during the resulting anarchy.

As for the "Catholic Taliban", first I think that's slander of the worst sort given that I know of no one who is planning to kill those who don't agree with them, and second, at least the guy in question is working hard for maximum shock value in a lot of his little comments. Whether he and his organization are anywhere near as radical as some people think remains to be seen.

19 posted on 04/08/2011 7:54:49 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Alex Murphy
....Singled out for special attention was RealCatholicTV.com, which, accused the paper , is “hunting for ‘traitorous’ nuns, priests or bishops throughout the American Church”. “We’re no more engaged in a witch hunt than a doctor excising a cancer is engaged in a witch hunt,” said Michael Voris of RealCatholicTV.com and St Michael’s Media. “We’re just shining a spotlight on people who are Catholics who do not live the faith.”

I followed your link to see the name of "the paper" which refers to Michael Voris as "hunting." Well, what do you know. It's the New York Slimes.

1. Since when do conservatives at FR take the NYT at face value? When they're going after Catholics, of course.

2. Why, after all the exhortations by anti-Catholics to clean up our own church, would anyone consider it a bad thing to shine a spotlight on bad priests, nuns or bishops?

20 posted on 04/08/2011 8:33:03 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: Eepsy; HarleyD
I consider myself a Catholic Monarchist. This is because I’ve examined the prophecies involved and have not found them incongruent with either my faith or my personal political predilections. Should a true Catholic Monarch arise in my lifetime, I would seek emigration, as the USA is not a monarchy, and the whole GCM prophecy is wrapped up in Europe anyway. There’s no reason for it to influence American politics apart from a possible exodus of the conservative Catholic vote.

I beg to differ. The GCM Prophecy (GCM= Great Catholic Monarch) certainly would affect the United States, and some Monarchists may desire to hasten it's demise.

"The restoration of Monarchy will not be a local affair; it will be a world-wide phenomenon...The republics and democracies will be over, communism and socialism a thing of the past..."
-- (More About The Great Monarch, by Yves Dupont, World Trends #41, Aug. 1974)
cited at Today's Catholic World

21 posted on 04/08/2011 8:34:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: iowamark
Heaven and the love of neighbour [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]
Virtue of Prudence [Michael Voris video]
Back-to-School Virtues: Three qualities that help your child succeed in class and in life
How to Make All Our Conversations Virtuous [Ecumenical]

Advent -- A Season of Hope
Modesty En Vogue [Another one of the virtues]"
Prudence: Mother of All Virtues
The Virtue of Confidence
Is Courage a Masculine Virtue?
Cardinal Virtues: Obama and the Real American Infrastructure – Part One
Cardinal Virtues: Obama and the Real American Infrastructure — Part Two
Morality is Habit-Forming: The Cardinal Virtues
The Cross Exemplifies Every Virtue [St. Thomas Aquinas]
Living the Virtue of Humility

22 posted on 04/08/2011 8:40:10 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: HarleyD

Ever read Plato on democracy?

Do you think the U.S is a democracy? Or a constitutional republic?


23 posted on 04/08/2011 8:40:19 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: HarleyD
and this is all presented in such a way as if it is incontrovertible. as if having an opinion that a woman has a right to choose or that homosexuality is someone's own business means you havent read a book in your life and are just saying that because you only care about your own "selfish interests".

So, do you agree with the above statement from your OP? If not, why did you post it? Is it because you see the Catholic as more dangerous than the social liberal who approves of abortion and homosexuality?

24 posted on 04/08/2011 8:48:32 AM PDT by Lorica
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This thread is an interesting one, because the OP shows support for the very social issues to which FR and Jim Robinson stand in opposition. Abortion and homosexuality.

And yet, here it is.

Why?


25 posted on 04/08/2011 8:52:00 AM PDT by Lorica
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I think Michael Voris has been reading Plato's views on the limitations of democracy, the virtuous/harmonious soul, and his affirmation of the philosopher-king.

Had this been presented as a lecture on The Republic, I wonder what your response would have been?

26 posted on 04/08/2011 9:05:33 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: Alex Murphy

Yves Dupont is an interpreter of prophets, not a prophet himself. A resurgence of european Catholicism following a possible Hapsburg revival is not going to have the immediate effect of current American politics devolving into a Heinleinesque Scudder Theocracy. Now long term, after a few more decades of liberal decay, maybe America would be fed up enough to accept such a drastic transition, but not as things stand now.

Will the world at some point be united in Catholic belief? I think so, mainly because I personally believe the ultimate Apostacy that comes before Christ’s return won’t occur until we have a perfect evangelization. When that day comes, no one will honestly be able to say “But Lord, I didn’t know.” As a catholic I naturally believe that perfect evangelization will be a Catholic one.

In short, protestants don’t need to worry about the GCM prophecies. Nothing short of a Miracle of God could bring their completion about, at which point the issue will be moot....


27 posted on 04/08/2011 9:34:13 AM PDT by Eepsy
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To: Lorica
" ... I wonder what your response would have been?"

Plato wasn't Catholic so there wouldn't have been a response. Go to the site in question and you'll notice that the topic is framed as someone speaking for the entire Catholic Church is making the comment.

I've realized that those who believe they are an elite predestined to Salvation are just like dedicated communists and fascists. There really are no moral limits for that sort of folks and they'll do whatever is expedient for them one day to the next without any concern for honesty or integrity. What are a few million abortions to people who think that the vast majority of mankind is helplessly predestined to Hell anyway? What difference does it make if homosexuals abound to an elite who sees the vast majority of mankind as damned and worthless?

28 posted on 04/08/2011 9:53:41 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Lorica

I can tell you in three words. Because he’s Catholic.


29 posted on 04/08/2011 10:59:07 AM PDT by Carpe Cerevisi
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To: Carpe Cerevisi
I can tell you in three words. Because he’s Catholic.

Exactly. I think sometimes articles are put up too hastily around here in an effort to assist in inflicting the thousand cuts.

30 posted on 04/08/2011 11:02:37 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: Rashputin
It's pretty funny that the source was Above Top Secret.

I've realized that those who believe they are an elite predestined to Salvation are just like dedicated communists and fascists. There really are no moral limits for that sort of folks and they'll do whatever is expedient for them one day to the next without any concern for honesty or integrity.

Anyone who has studied the tactics of the left, specifically Alinsky, will see them in operation here all the time in the FR assault on Catholicism. And logical fallacies abound, perpetrated by the same antis. The double standard, hasty generalization, poisoning the well, ad hominem, slippery slope, appeals to fear and authority...you name it, they're there...even by those who profess an acquaintance with journalism.

31 posted on 04/08/2011 11:07:40 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: HarleyD
There's quite a few reasons to question why this is posted on free republic.

This may be one of the more disturbing things I have ever seen.

This person must have never seen the effects of Islam and liberalism.

This video is shown to people, and even more frightening, many are likely inspired by it.

This guy is way too worked up about this video.

This guy basically says that the problem with our country is that "everyone can vote", both ignorant know-nothings who only care about themselves(aka people who support abortion, gay marriage, etc), and informed people(aka people who agree with his/the organizations particular views)

Questioning the wisdom of universal suffrage for those over 18 is not out-of-bounds for conservatives. Also, this guy doesn't seem to have much of a problem with abortion and "gay marriage." Remember, free republic is pro-life and against the homosexual agenda.

and this is all presented in such a way as if it is incontrovertible. as if having an opinion that a woman has a right to choose or that homosexuality is someone's own business means you havent read a book in your life and are just saying that because you only care about your own "selfish interests".

Again, free republic is pro-life and against the homosexual agenda.

i think im gonna be sick

More overreaction. Notice how poorly this is written, too. It doesn't look like it was very professionally written. In fact, it looks like a blog post or a post on a forum of some sort.

Most importantly, check out the website where this is from. It says "AboveTopSecret.com- Conspiracy Theories, UFOs, Paranormal, Political Madness, and other 'Alternative Topics.'"

Check out the comments on this post, too. The commenters are mostly atheist idiots, who equate Christianity to Islam.

We have to question why this is on a conservative website like free republic.

32 posted on 04/08/2011 11:20:28 AM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: HarleyD
Actually, Mr. Voris isn't far off the mark. A benevolent monarchy is superior to a dysfunctional republic. The problem with a monarchy is, once instituted, it can become malevolent really quickly and the only way to fix it is a revolution.

But before you call this guy a nut, ask yourself this question: Is our republic currently functional or not?
33 posted on 04/08/2011 11:24:14 AM PDT by Antoninus (Fight the homosexual agenda. Support marriage -- www.nationformarriage.org)
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To: Lorica
I think Michael Voris has been reading Plato's views on the limitations of democracy, the virtuous/harmonious soul, and his affirmation of the philosopher-king.

Either that, or Machiavelli's Discourses on Livy. That had a profound impact on me as a student and I came to agree with Niocolo that a functional republic is the best form of government, but failing that, a benign monarchy is also good.
34 posted on 04/08/2011 11:48:22 AM PDT by Antoninus (Fight the homosexual agenda. Support marriage -- www.nationformarriage.org)
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To: Antoninus

I haven’t read Machiavelli, but I’ll remember your reference.

The thing is, there are clear problems with true democracy (some of which Voris delineates) as opposed to a constitutional republic, and it’s why the U.S. IS a republic.

Most Christians hold that Christ will come again to rule Heaven and Earth, and man’s attempts to rule himself will pass away. It’s certainly within Voris’ purview to state his own beliefs which, the apoplexy shown by some FR non-Catholics notwithstanding, are not likely to become mainstream at any point in time.

What amazes me is the willingness to align with pro-abort and pro-gay views in order to put this article up here.


35 posted on 04/08/2011 11:55:55 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: Antoninus; HarleyD
I came to agree with Niocolo that a functional republic is the best form of government

Believe me, I'm glad to hear you say that. Unfortunately, many of your fellow FRCatholics seem to be having trouble making the same statement, i.e. that a functional, constitutional representative republic is the best form of government over any country, at any time. I suspect that they secretly believe a "benevolent Catholic dictatorship" is better than a constitutional republic.

Related threads:
American Government and Christianity - America's Christian Roots
In Praise of a Puritan America
July 4th -- Happy "Presbyterian Rebellion" Day!
Sources of American Federalism: Founders, Reformers & Ancient Hebrews
America’s Constitutional Foundation of Biblical Covenant
Reformation Faith & Representative Democracy

36 posted on 04/08/2011 12:39:52 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: Alex Murphy
" ... a functional, constitutional representative republic is the best form of government over any country, at any time .."

I sort of thought that an agreement with the above was the norm on FR but I'll keep an eye out and see if I can catch a glimpse of whatever it is you're seeing. I haven't been around here all that long but I never got the impression that the Catholic folks who post and who I have contacted via email had any other form of government they preferred other than a constitutional republic.

37 posted on 04/08/2011 12:51:16 PM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: HarleyD

I agree with the post.
When will you Pro-duuuh-stants realize the that Rome is correct?


38 posted on 04/08/2011 1:05:24 PM PDT by PapistProud (There is no Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church)
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To: Rashputin

You won’t find many. Most Catholics are happy with a constitutional republic, but our freedom of speech allows free reign (pun intended) to those who favor some sort of Catholic monarchy. No one I know of here expects any sort of Catholic monarchy until Christ comes again to rule Heaven and Earth, but there are a couple of anti-Catholics here who will make hay with whatever they can find.


39 posted on 04/08/2011 1:17:19 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: Rashputin; HarleyD
I haven't been around here all that long but I never got the impression that the Catholic folks who post and who I have contacted via email had any other form of government they preferred other than a constitutional republic.

You'd certainly think so. I'd like to think so. We'd both be wrong, however. Case in point: this guy managed to slip through the cracks for twelve years, from 1998 (i.e. the beginning of FR) until 2010, until he finally came out re the basis and intended future of his version of "conservatism":

"Maybe now folks will finally realize that "traditional American conservatism" as it has been known is neither traditional nor conservative. It is a farce and a fraud — good old-fashioned Jean Jacques Rousseau liberalism wrapped in a red-white-and-blue bathrobe. Maybe now they will begin to see that the Constitution, the Statue of Liberty, and Wall Street are part of the same monstrous history-spanning project that brought us the French Revolution, the Soviet Union, and two World Wars. Perhaps now they will come to see that real capital-C Conservatism has nothing to do with individual Liberty and everything to do with individual Duty, and that real Conservatism is not and cannot be divorced from the Christian religion and the historic Christian culture of the West prior to the so-called "Enlightenment".

We Catholics need do nothing but watch and pray. The house of cards John Locke and his contemporaries have built is about to come down upon its own foundation of sand. And after the crash comes, those of us who survive can once again take up the task given us by God after the last pagan empire fell: the construction of civilization based not upon Libery, Equality, and Fraternity, but upon Tradition, Family, and Property. In place of the fallen gods of atheistic Reason and individualist Liberty we will re-erect the twin pillars of Altar and Throne.

Thank you so much for posting this. Vive le Roi! Viva Cristo Rey!"

-- banned Catholic Monarchist FReeper B-Chan,
on the August 2010 thread Catholic Government [Michael Voris video]

(i.e. the thread/video advocating a "Benevolent Catholic Dictatorship" for America)


40 posted on 04/08/2011 1:20:09 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: Alex Murphy; HarleyD; Quix
There are a subset of Catholic FReepers who refer to themselves as "monarchists", because a benevolent dictatorship (i.e. a monarchy) is their preferred/ideal form of government.

Just Wow. Has anyone ever looked at this "Great Catholic Monarch" prophecy (Yahoo Search)?

Seems very familiar... *shudder*

I had never heard of it before, but it seems to be popular among the papists...

@Quix: plz ping prophecy minded folks...

41 posted on 04/08/2011 1:20:58 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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To: Antoninus

It is logically obvious that the most beneficial form of government is a competent benevolent absolute dictatorship or monarchy.

The problem is that your good monarch eventually dies, and regression to the mean implies whoever succeeds him will not be as benevolent or competent.

Balance of power republics are set up to provide reasonably decent government with even bad men in charge. Good government from an absolute dictator or monarch requires the rulers to be unusually good men.

Good luck with that.


42 posted on 04/08/2011 1:21:59 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Alex Murphy

Well, it’s a form of conservatism, but it’s obviously an anti-American conservatism. Guys would be right at home with Louis XIV.

This is the conservatism America revolted against. Our conservatism is a radical rejection of absolutism.

Personally, I’ll stick with the Declaration of Independence. I am created equal (as are all other men), and I owe no allegiance to anyone. My allegiance to my country is freely given.

If Christ returns, I’ll give my allegiance to him, but in the meantime your kings can go pound sand.


43 posted on 04/08/2011 1:26:58 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Alex Murphy
I remember B-Chan well, what a piece of work that guy was!

The problem with our Government is not the expansion of the franchise - that wouldn't be an issue AT ALL - if we still had a Government of limited and enumerated powers.

Without it, the public will vote themselves an indefinite supply of “bread and circuses”.

44 posted on 04/08/2011 1:27:13 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: roamer_1

Never heard of it.


45 posted on 04/08/2011 1:31:44 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: allmendream
Without it, the public will vote themselves an indefinite supply of “bread and circuses”.

That's exactly the point Voris was making.

I hardly think that there's a crowd of Catholics roaming the countryside looking for a monarch. This is a tempest in a teapot, to the great satisfaction of some, I'm sure.

46 posted on 04/08/2011 1:34:04 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: WPaCon
Having an opinion that abortion and homosexuality are wrong is quite a bit different than stating that those who disagree shouldn't have the right to vote.

Other than that, yes - it seems a unlikely source - no doubt glommed onto for its anti-Catholic slant.

To some, many things fall to the wayside when an opportunity to bash Catholicism as anti-American presents itself.

47 posted on 04/08/2011 1:34:07 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Lorica
The point that I am making is that rather than a focus on restricting the people, and who can participate in voting -

He should focus upon restricting the government back to the Constitutional limits whereby there is no enumerated power under which they would hand out “bread and circuses”.

With Government back in its proper role (limited, enumerated) there is really no reason to get all crazy and say that “unless you agree with me and my morality - no vote for YOU!”.

That is not a functional Republic - if the giving of the vote is dependent upon agreement with the powers that be - that is a sad sick joke of a Republic.

Sort of like “Only members of the Communist Party get to vote”. Would that be a Republic?

48 posted on 04/08/2011 1:39:50 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: HarleyD; wideawake; All
As a Noachide Theocrat, I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I wanted to point out how hypocritical it is for this type of right wing Roman Catholic to expect a "great monarch" who will rule over a utopian Catholic world while excoriating both Jews and Fundamentalist Protestants for believing in a "political messiah." What is this "Great Catholic Monarch" but a "political messiah?" What is his reign if not the (condemned by the Catholic Church) millenium?

A-millenial chr*stians have been attacking the Jewish "political messiah" for two thousand years, yet they have had one after another during that time: Constantine, Theodosius, Justinian, Tiridates, Menelek, Charlemagne, etc.

I'm waiting for a "political messiah" all right--Mashiach Ben David, Mashiach HaMelekh! That's my great monarch!

49 posted on 04/08/2011 1:40:53 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Hachodesh hazeh lakhem ro'sh chodashim; ri'shon hu' lakhem lechodshey hashanah.)
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To: allmendream

First of all, I believe his video was only put up here to annoy Catholics. Having said that:

Yes, I’d love to see government back in its proper role, with the Federal gov’t where the 10th. amendment says it ought to be.

And, it’s our enumerated right to free speech to let Voris wish for a monarchy if he so desires, right?

As for who gets to vote, I’m sure if this were out on news/activism, you’d get more than one freeper stating that many of those who vote Democrat aren’t voting out of intelligence, knowledge, etc. It’s not a new or original thought.


50 posted on 04/08/2011 1:47:00 PM PDT by Lorica
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