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Socialization of Home School Children: A Communication Approach
Personal web site ^ | April 20, 2011 | Tom Smedley

Posted on 04/20/2011 1:19:13 PM PDT by RJR_fan

In 1992, I earned my "15 minutes of fame" with an MS thesis about "Social Maturity of Home School Children." I've decided to make it more widely available, starting with this extract (CLICK HERE to open the .pdf document).

FReepers, this is my gift to you. I formatted it into a dozen or so attractive pages to read on screen, or to print out and give to worried friends and family.

I found it interesting to cull trenchant observations on the state of public education from a variety of sources: Ayn Rand, the atheist capitalist. Ivan Illych, the Marxist Jesuit. R. J. Rushdoony, the ArmEnian Calvinist. Decades before John Taylor Gatto burst onto the scene, these antagonistic pundits agreed on one thing: public education is bad for children and other living things.


TOPICS: Activism; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: education; frhf; homeschool; homeschooling; socialization

1 posted on 04/20/2011 1:19:17 PM PDT by RJR_fan
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To: DManA; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; Dr. Eckleburg; Jim 0216; metmom
ping.

Hey, memom! If you could forward this to the home school ping list, I'd appreciate it!

2 posted on 04/20/2011 1:23:09 PM PDT by RJR_fan ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: RJR_fan

I love turning the question around when questioned about home schooling and socialization. People express concern that the kids will lack social skills.

Taking a look at their kids, my question is, So, you want my kids to be rebellious, sloppy, trampy, phone-texting, illiterate, without self-control, immoral, amoral, druggy, ritalin-chewing, selfish, peer-compliant, lazy, silly, trivial, churlish, and devoid of a meaningful future like your kid?


3 posted on 04/20/2011 1:26:58 PM PDT by lurk
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To: RJR_fan

I had my doubts about the socialization aspect until I met the home schooled son of a friend. The brightest, friendliest, most empathetic, sociable child I’ve ever met. A joy to be around.


4 posted on 04/20/2011 1:28:02 PM PDT by balch3
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To: RJR_fan
The money quote for me:

The process of moving the public school student from grade to grade, classroom to classroom, and school to school further disrupts the continuity of the maturing process, and the development of communication skills. Very few adults still have best friendships tracing back to first grade. Most adults still have continuing relationships with their families. Long term relationships allow the best opportunity for the leisurely flowering of empathy and understanding, the cultivation of deep rather than superficial connections.

In the public school system, children are socialized horizontally, and temporarily, into conformity to their immediate peers.

Home educators seek to socialize their children vertically, towards responsibility, service, and adulthood, with an eye on eternity.

Excellent. Thanks for sharing this.
5 posted on 04/20/2011 1:28:10 PM PDT by rpierce (We have taglines now? :)
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To: lurk
Upon reading the title of this thread I immediately thought of the title of a companion piece.

Socialization of Public School Children: A Law of the Jungle Approach

6 posted on 04/20/2011 1:31:46 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: RJR_fan
Met a 7 year old home schooled child the other day supposedly doing 6th grade math.

His dad said...he knows what pi is....and the kid spit off 3.14159.

But what is pi I asked the kid. He said nothing and left the room.

So wow...he memorized 6 numbers...the equivalent of a word with 6 letters. I'm sure the father is not happy with me but I hope he sees the problem.

7 posted on 04/20/2011 2:00:02 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: balch3

That reminds me of a statement a lady made to me. She said her neighbors homeschool and those poor children are so socially stunted that they talk to her. LOL! She didn’t think it normal for children to talk to adults.


8 posted on 04/20/2011 2:12:27 PM PDT by imskylark
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To: lurk

Very good!
Socialization in government schools truthfully should be called peer-pressure. Don’t want it and don’t need it.
The sooner Americans remove their children from that rat’s nest and propaganda factory, the sooner will see improvements in our children as a whole.


9 posted on 04/20/2011 2:13:14 PM PDT by Doulos1 (Bitter Clinger Forever!)
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To: Sacajaweau

I agree with your assessment, but I doubt a 7 year old public or private schooled kid would know, either.

So the only thing bad about your anecdote was, a boastful dad.


10 posted on 04/20/2011 2:32:10 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: RJR_fan

In the year 1988, my wife said she’d done some reading on home schooling, and that she wanted to home school our kids. I told her I thought that was the dumbest thing I’d ever heard, but I said on one condition... that if it looked like we were screwing up our kids education, we’d put them in a “real school” environment. This spring, we are graduating our two youngest from college... One in dance and the other in Bible, whew! Both are among the most thoughtful and friendliest you’ll see on any campus, of course my wife gets all the credit. If you can, homeschool... best life you can give a kid.


11 posted on 04/20/2011 2:43:54 PM PDT by dps.inspect (the system is rigged...)
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To: Sacajaweau

“But what is pi I asked the kid. He said nothing and left the room.”

Ask my 7 year old, home schooled daughter. Had you asked her, you wouldn’t have had such a snarky comment to post here.


12 posted on 04/20/2011 2:56:13 PM PDT by RBranha (Captialism is the natural outgrowth of human freedom.)
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To: dps.inspect

Employers should actively seek out homeschooled children when hiring...


13 posted on 04/20/2011 3:03:09 PM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: lurk
Bingo. Do you want you kindergartners socializing with a bunch of 5 yo out of control kids or people of a variety of ages and experiences.
14 posted on 04/20/2011 5:10:02 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: Sacajaweau

So what is it? You don’t support home schooling do you?
Ask a 7 yo from a public school and they’d probably tell you apple.


15 posted on 04/20/2011 5:12:08 PM PDT by svcw (Non forgiveness is like holding a hot coal thinking the other person will be blistered)
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To: RJR_fan; 2Jedismom; 6amgelsmama; AAABEST; aberaussie; adopt4Christ; Aggie Mama; agrace; ...

HOMESCHOOL PING

This ping list is for articles of interest to homeschoolers. I hold both the Homeschool Ping List and the Another Reason to Homeschool Ping List. Please freepmail me to let me know if you would like to be added or removed from either list, or both.

The keyword for the FREE REPUBLIC HOMESCHOOLERS’ FORUM is frhf.

Thank you!!!!!

That's certainly worth a ping.

16 posted on 04/20/2011 5:54:03 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: RJR_fan; metmom
In the home school family, on the other hand, people of various ages and generations mix easily together in a variety that more accurately mirrors the outside society.

There is an emphasis on service and responsibility that turns differences into opportunities for compassion.

This is so important.

17 posted on 04/20/2011 6:18:42 PM PDT by Dr. Scarpetta
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To: Sacajaweau

>>So wow...he memorized 6 numbers...the equivalent of a word with 6 letters. I’m sure the father is not happy with me but I hope he sees the problem. <<

Wow, you showed up a 7 year old. Bet you’re proud.

Now, let’s get realistic on this. I homeschool my kids and I’m a crossing guard for the local elementary school. Both my kids are on par with the the “Gifted and Talented” of that school, because they have been tested.

Ya know what they don’t know that the other girls do? Trees are good, cars are bad. If you don’t recycle, you are evil. Obama is wonderful. The white man should be strung up for all the bad things he did to everyone else. Christ should not be mentioned and it’s great to give up meat on Monday to save the planet but not on Friday for Lent.

Keep it. I’ll educate my own kids.


18 posted on 04/20/2011 6:25:38 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: netmilsmom
Christ should not be mentioned and it’s great to give up meat on Monday to save the planet but not on Friday for Lent.

The eco nuts have it so backwards.

They don't eat the cows that produce the greenhouse gases, and eat the plants which correct global warming.

And you expect anything else from the public school?

19 posted on 04/20/2011 6:29:29 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Sacajaweau

Oh, and perhaps you should look up 6th grade math.
Pi is TAUGHT in 6th grade, the kid may not have gotten to it yet.

I hope you understand now.


20 posted on 04/20/2011 6:30:02 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: metmom

>>They don’t eat the cows that produce the greenhouse gases, and eat the plants which correct global warming.
And you expect anything else from the public school? <<

LOL!
I never thought of it that way!


21 posted on 04/20/2011 6:31:36 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Happiness is a choice.)
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To: RJR_fan

Thank you, thank you, thank you!! May I have your permission to post your thesis on my facebook page for all my homeschooling friends?


22 posted on 04/20/2011 6:31:54 PM PDT by LatinaGOP
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To: RJR_fan

Whenever anyone asked me about socialization, I would reply if we were any more socialized we wouldn’t have time for school.


23 posted on 04/20/2011 6:34:30 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Sacajaweau; RJR_fan
So wow...he memorized 6 numbers...the equivalent of a word with 6 letters. I'm sure the father is not happy with me but I hope he sees the problem.

I'll bet it's 6 more numbers than your average, or even above average, public school kid knows pi to.

I've seen 2nd graders who can't even add or subtract numbers above 5 and kids older than that who can hardly read those 6 letter words.

Not to mention, that your comparison reveals a lack of understanding of how kids learn and the fact that numbers aren't letters and the brain doesn't process them the same.

24 posted on 04/20/2011 6:44:56 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: lurk

The saw on that subject I learned from FR homeschoolers goes like this:

You want to simulate the public school experience in the home? Take your kid to the bathroom, blow smoke in his face, swear at him, beat him up, and take his lunch money.


25 posted on 04/20/2011 6:45:54 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: balch3

“I had my doubts about the socialization aspect until I met the home schooled son of a friend. The brightest, friendliest, most empathetic, sociable child I’ve ever met. A joy to be around.”

This is why homeschooling continues to grow. The kids themselves make the case for it.


26 posted on 04/20/2011 6:46:50 PM PDT by TruthConquers (.Delendae sunt publicae scholae)
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To: balch3

At what point in history did kids only interact with other kids their age?


27 posted on 04/20/2011 6:53:54 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Sacajaweau

Wow a 7 year old didn’t know everything about pi, thats profound.

When my son started public school at that age the majority of kids didn’t know their numbers or the alphabet.


28 posted on 04/20/2011 7:02:42 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: LatinaGOP
May I have your permission to post your thesis on my facebook page for all my homeschooling friends?

YES YES YES !!!!

Please, FRiends! post and share this link as widely as possible!

29 posted on 04/20/2011 7:08:38 PM PDT by RJR_fan ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: Sacajaweau

I know a 13 year old home schooled kid who already has a free ride to med school. He’s a real anomoly. Had he been in public school, he would have been stoned on Ritalin day one. He’s now not only brilliant but very mature.


30 posted on 04/20/2011 7:17:40 PM PDT by cyclotic (Boy Scouts-Developing Leaders in a World of Followers.)
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To: Sacajaweau
Gee! It's too bad that you didn't meet my two homeschoolers who earned B.S. degrees in math at the age of 18. They would tell what pi is.
31 posted on 04/20/2011 8:25:07 PM PDT by wintertime
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To: rpierce

Stunning excerpt. It seems trivial almost to mention this,
but many I know still recall the breakup of a two school
system (1-6, 7-12) into three (1-4, 5-8, 9-12). This
had as an effect that there was no one in the school who
could remember the last election, so no one could compare
the campaign to the reality.


32 posted on 04/20/2011 11:30:23 PM PDT by cycjec
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To: RJR_fan
OK -- here is the link to copy and share as widely as possible:

http://tomsmedley.com/SSS01.pdf

33 posted on 04/21/2011 2:03:17 AM PDT by RJR_fan ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: balch3

Here’s a funny observation from our situation -

a friend was skeptical of homeschoolers’ socialization, but our daughters freely talk with him and are fully sociable with everyone, including adults.

He said, “sure, she’ll talk with adults, but how about kids her own age?”

Huh? I don’t really understand the point of that question.

Here’s another - the MIL is a HUGE skeptic of homeschooling because she’s a lib. She keeps saying that they need “influence from other adults”. I know exactly what she means - they aren’t being sufficiently indoctrinated in humanism (and they never will).


34 posted on 04/21/2011 5:53:52 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: driftdiver

Same age education grouping, instead of same level of mastery grouping,

occurred when the government imposed mandatory attendance laws. (I’m not going to argue the good/bad of these policies)

When that occurred, the older teenaged immigrants who needed to work to feed their families weren’t allowed to, and were forced to go to school. They often couldn’t read, and were put in a classroom of MUCH younger kids, with some teen girl teacher trying to control them in a classroom where they didn’t want to be. They then switched to same-age classrooms to alleviate the problem.


35 posted on 04/21/2011 5:59:05 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: metmom

I (tried to) explained pi to my 6 yr old.
She could probably rattle off the digits (she and her sis have all the planets memorized, etc),

but didn’t quite have the math skills (ratios) to understand the concept. That’s OK. That’s a trigonometry level concept, and it’s foolish to try to teach that stuff except on the most general level without the basic math skills.

She DID, however, get the joke:
“Pi R Squared”
“No, Pi R Round, cornbread R Squared”


36 posted on 04/21/2011 6:04:44 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: metmom

I am a public school teacher/homeschooling dad and let me tell you I go to my job every day and simply cringe at the ever-declining skill sets of my 9th grade students. What they don’t know at their age is frightening. They don’t know ANY grammar (not taught in gramm...er...elementary school). They don’t know simple mathematical operations (can’t add, subtract, multiply, divide) and then are thrown into Algebra classes in high school). They don’t know the first thing about America’s history.

I believe much of this goes far in explaining their inability at social skills. They are forever battling teachers from a guilted complex. They come to classrooms every day and are asked to do that for which they are not prepared. The educational system has failed them and they must sit (compulsory education) and face their (and the school system’s) failure day in and day out. Put another way, they have been lied to...and at some point in time in high school, they know it!. Where the guilt comes in is that they have heard a smattering of attempts by teachers to actually try to offer education. They have, of course, passed on this. Public education no longer requires that you learn, but that you...comply. When they get a teacher (yes, like me) that actually tries to make learning matter, they are incredulous, offended, amused, outraged (on any day, any student can adopt any one of these approaches—keeps me on my toes...and in The Word!) Couple this with their parents’ own personal issues, poor training methods, twisted thinking (their child can’t read, but s/he is still a “Terrific Kid!”—if I see one more of those bumper stickers, I’m going to...nevermind), and you get what amounts to a walking time bomb. And, so, from time to time, you’ll see one or more of them “go off”.

One more thing...being the homeschooling parent that I am, I am aware of what it is they SHOULD know, or, more importantly, COULD know, while most of my colleagues aren’t. They have been dumbed down, as well, by ever-diminished requirements, course content that is heavy on “socialism-ization” and light on academics and development of critical thinking. The veteran teachers have suffered through the “water torture” of time, as American public education has devolved into, what can only be called, an absolute disgrace. And most of my colleagues don’t even know it! So, many of them just roll with it...while I, doing my very best impersonation of the weeping prophet, attempt to raise a still, small voice in the wilderness over my students’ inability to read, inability to work, inability to...(fill in the blank).

I often ask aloud, “Lord, what would you have me to do here?” He hasn’t moved me, but, rather, has given me a mind, a heart, and an ability to speak to teens, to persuade, to cajole, to exhort and, where necessary, to rebuke (this last one is where I can get into trouble—prayers, please). I eventually conclude (like Paul, when he refers to living epistles), that I am there to present to my students what ought to be, in terms of their education/socialization. I can tell you, though, the numbers of takers has been declining steadily over the past few years.


37 posted on 04/21/2011 6:42:36 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: MrB

The understanding of the concept will come and will be all the easier for having been introduced to it at a young age.

Something that might help is to take a circle, measure the diameter with a string, and then have her wrap the string around the circumference of the circle and mark where the ends of the string are and count how many times she wraps the string around the circle.

It will give her a hands on explanation of what it is you’re saying.

I loved it when my kids got to the age where they could start to understand jokes like that. To me it indicated that they were growing up and actually thinking abstractly. A good sign.


38 posted on 04/21/2011 6:49:45 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

We did some illustrations with a wheel drawing a line, but the whole ratio thing was still beyond her. She accepted what I was saying, but didn’t get the “why” of it.

Yes, kids starting to make and get jokes is a really fun time. She really likes puns on words that sound alike and often asks me for a joke based on words she thinks of that sound alike.


39 posted on 04/21/2011 6:54:32 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working for)
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To: MarDav

God Bless you for your heart and efforts.

The kids need people like you and it will have an impact on some of them.

It’s like the story about the kid throwing the starfish which were washed up on the beach back in the ocean. When challenged that it didn’t matter because he couldn’t save all of them, he commented that he could save some of them and it mattered to the ones he did save.

And there will be homeschooled children who opt for public high school and will appreciate what you are doing for them. They need you, too.

Don’t hesitate to ask for prayers for situations as they come up on the homeschool threads. I don’t see your name on either of my homeschool ping lists. I would be happy to add you to them if you’d like.


40 posted on 04/21/2011 6:55:39 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

You may add me to your lists. I try to drop in on FR during lunch time at school when I can, but time has been at a premium lately (we are busy trying to “teach to the test”—as opposed to educating them) and this has meant lots of meetings, remediation, teacher-training (how to adequately reflect to the state the notion that we’ve been doing all that we can to provide instruction).


41 posted on 04/21/2011 7:24:21 AM PDT by MarDav
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To: Sacajaweau
So wow...he memorized 6 numbers...the equivalent of a word with 6 letters. I'm sure the father is not happy with me but I hope he sees the problem. If that's not an example of poor statistical analysis, I don't know what is. A single data point? You should meet my kid, who was also homeschooled and graduated Magna Cum Laude with Honors in Mathematics from College in 3 years, and 1.5 years later graduates next month with his Masters in Mathematics, also with Honors. He is also the kindest, selfless, caring, well-mannered and considerate kid you'll ever meet. In fact, he posts here at FR as UltraSonic007. There's a data point for you. (by the way, he would scold me for my lack of humility and excessive pride!)
42 posted on 04/21/2011 8:19:22 AM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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Tough Dog Says "Donate"


Click the Pic

43 posted on 04/21/2011 9:09:45 AM PDT by TheOldLady
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To: Sacajaweau
So wow...he memorized 6 numbers...the equivalent of a word with 6 letters. I'm sure the father is not happy with me but I hope he sees the problem.

Perhaps I'm a bit dense, but I don't see the problem with a 7-yr-old who doesn't yet understand that pi is the ratio of a circles circumference to it's diameter.

Please tell me what the problem is.

I'd be willing to bet you that the child is probably investigating to find the answer to your question right now. You've challenged him, and most all homeschooled children I know are anxious to rise to meet such challenges.
44 posted on 04/21/2011 10:35:16 AM PDT by Sopater (...where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 COR 3:17b)
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To: Sacajaweau
wow...he memorized 6 numbers...the equivalent of a word with 6 letters. I'm sure the father is not happy with me but I hope he sees the problem.
Yes, I'm sure he recognizes his error in assuming you were a friend who would indulge his parental pride in the presence of his son . . .

45 posted on 04/21/2011 12:51:56 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (DRAFT PALIN)
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