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To: HarleyD; NYer; wolfcreek; SoldierDad; antiRepublicrat; pnh102

As a military chaplain (retired), I can see a few problems with this. First, Congress (via military regulations) has determined that any chaplain must be endorsed to the chaplaincy by an agency representing their denominational ministers. IOW, they have to have sufficient organization to agree on a review board that looks at both denominational qualifications and physical/mental qualifications of those fit to serve on active duty. The atheists would have to come up with such an agency and some review process about qualifications of a group that doesn’t yet exist. (Not saying they can’t get that together, but it could take some time.)

2. The atheist chaplain would have to provide general religious support to those not of his faith group. IOW, he’d have to help the catholic soldier get catholic help, and the baptist soldier get baptist help, etc., etc. He would NOT be permitted to tell them to take a hike.

3. He is also required by law to conduct worship for his faith group. I don’t think there is any doctrinal consensus among atheists on what that would even begin to look like. Additionally, he’d have to arrange for such worship for those not in his faith group when in a job that requires him to be with soldiers.

4. He is to provide counsel to the commander on matters of morale as touched by religion. He is to provide/arrange counseling for families, individuals, etc. He is to conduct weddings, funerals, etc. All of these things would have to be redefined.

5. Finally, he is to be a symbol of hope in darkest hours that speak of death. His symbol would be “kiss your ass goodbye, ‘cause once you bite the dust here, it’s all over there, too.”

6. Finally, are the atheist groups sure they want to argue that they are officially an organized body of beliefs about deities....a religion?


16 posted on 04/28/2011 7:23:05 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain & proud of it: Truly Supporting the Troops means praying for their Victory!)
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To: xzins
Well! Based upon your list, I'd suggest that anyone who would be accepted as a “Military Chaplain” would be faced with a conundrum. Perhaps the end result would be an epiphany?
18 posted on 04/28/2011 8:51:43 PM PDT by SoldierDad (Proud dad of an Army Soldier currently deployed in the Valley of Death, Afghanistan)
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To: xzins; HarleyD; NYer; wolfcreek; SoldierDad; antiRepublicrat; pnh102

First of all, thank you for your service.

I think there are two questions here: should the atheists have a chaplaincy, and are they ready? I think it is obvious that they are not ready, for some of the reasons you list: lack of organization, lack of a formulated doctrines of faith.

On helping other faith chaplains, I don’t think thay compare to a Baptist and a Catholic, but they can compare to Hindu and a Christian. In other words, “I don’t think your religion makes any sense but I can help carrying that heavy idol of yours”. I can easily imagine an atheist with a collegial attitude. Note that if it is a requirement of service, then belligerent types simply won’t apply or won’t stay long. Like in any other professional work, it requires professional attitude, and an atheist can be a good professional.

What they lack now can be developed. They can have a congress, establsh some principles, adopt some core statements, agree on some symbolism and bingo, they have their own set of bells and smells and are ready to go. After all, a military man does not have to choose a chaplain, — if he is of generally atheistic persuasion but does not like the work of the hypothetical congress, he is no worse than now.

But should they? The core question is, are they a worldview based on a faith or are they not? I think they are. Their faith is that there is no supernatural life. So far they have been insisting that Atheism is not a faith. But if they come around and admit that they are what they are based on a faith, I don’t think anyone should stand in their way.

Can an atheist give hope to a dying fellow atheist? The soviet Union had a rich experience with that, and there is evidence that it worked for them somewhat. In the war with Germany, there was a surge of Christian faith (and Stalin was smart enough to not suppress that), but also there were acts of heroism done for atheistic ideation to be sure. The usual line was advancing ideas by their death, rather than gaining eternal life. The dying soldier would be counceled that he served his country, saved many lives of others, or perhaps served the goals of Communism. An American Atheist would fashion a similar set in line with the American values. So, yeah, they can provide a measure of comfort.

I personally think that Atheists should be barred from the military, the Academe, or political office, but so long as they are considered legitimate in their stupid faith, they are legitimate in sustaining it in the military service.


19 posted on 04/29/2011 6:00:39 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: xzins; NYer; wolfcreek; SoldierDad; antiRepublicrat; pnh102
The atheist chaplain would have to provide general religious support to those not of his faith group. IOW, he’d have to help the catholic soldier get catholic help, and the baptist soldier get baptist help, etc., etc. He would NOT be permitted to tell them to take a hike.

You bring up some excellent point X not the least being the one above. I recall when I was in the service I was assigned to relatively small units. I was blessed that I had some excellent chaplins but, as you stated, many of them served multiple denominations. In fact our group were so small that often we attended different worship services just to support the chaplins. There would be a certain irony if an atheist had to perform a baptism.

What is most interesting about your point and this article is that the atheists don't seem to have a clue as to how the military works or what would be required of them. If they did, they certainly wouldn't make this proposal.

36 posted on 05/01/2011 4:38:11 AM PDT by HarleyD
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