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Royal Wedding: Archbishop Backs William and Kate's Decision to Live Together Before Marriage
The Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | 4/29/11 | Tim Ross, Jonathan Wynne-Jones and Gordon Rayner

Posted on 04/30/2011 2:38:35 PM PDT by marshmallow

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To: conservaterian

whon said this was about sex, you can live with each pother and not have sex till marriage


101 posted on 04/30/2011 4:59:51 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: tiki

love to see those stats as everyone I know lived with each other and all are married still, well minus one


102 posted on 04/30/2011 5:00:46 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: manc

Also ever heard of living with each other and not having sex?

I guess I would consider any woman that could live with me for 2 years without sex to not be compatible.


103 posted on 04/30/2011 5:03:04 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Salvation

With more of the more traditional Anglicans having taken the offer from Rome to come home, over the course of time, what is called the Church of England could very well be reunited with Rome.


104 posted on 04/30/2011 5:06:00 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

I hope not!


105 posted on 04/30/2011 5:11:30 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: Mr Rogers

And in the long run, it is good for neither the guy, the girl, or society. God is not mocked.

You’re right it’s not about what society accepts, it’s about what God accepts.


106 posted on 04/30/2011 5:12:11 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: marshmallow
The Archbishop of York backed Prince William and Kate Middleton’s decision to live together before marriage, saying that many modern couples want to “test the milk before they buy the cow”.
Wow how sleazy is that? If this marriage lasts more than ten years (without the prince cheating with a younger Guernsey, or Kate grabbing herself a shiny new Stallion), I'll be pretty surprised.
107 posted on 04/30/2011 5:18:11 PM PDT by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: Huskrrrr

You dated a woman for three years and remained chaste? I have to hand it to you, your self-discipline is amazing.


108 posted on 04/30/2011 5:18:28 PM PDT by Melas
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To: Jeff Chandler

Viele Danke! After all, what is love if it is not unconditional? What kind of so-called “love” rejects the beloved because he or she fails to conform to some idealistic, unrealistic standard? If that was how God loved, then we would all be in mortal danger. The Bible says “God is love,” and his unconditional love for humankind - despite our utter unworthiness - is the basis for all human love.


109 posted on 04/30/2011 5:20:18 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: manc
do you preach and how you do it to others?

Yes, I am the Reverend Leroy and I preach at the Church of What's Happening Now!

110 posted on 04/30/2011 5:21:28 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: mlizzy
the prince cheating with a younger Guernsey, or Kate grabbing herself a shiny new Stallion

It's funny because it's true.

111 posted on 04/30/2011 5:23:48 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

I’ve been married 29 years and my hubby and I lived together for 2 years before we married. I have no idea of the accuracy of living together making it more or less likely the marriage won’t work- but among our friends those that lived together first have stayed together.

Another thing I would like to add here- It seems to me that many who do not live together rush into marriage pretty quickly which can be a huge mistake also- absolutely don’t know each other yet.

I think ideally a couple should darn sure get to know each other for quite a while before marrying- whether they live together or not. I have two daughters that rushed into marriage not knowing the other person nearly enough. One son-in-law was a meth addict and the other was a control freak- likely on his way to being a wife-beater. Both are getting a divorce now and I sure wish they had taken longer to marry to begin with.


112 posted on 04/30/2011 5:25:51 PM PDT by Tammy8 (~Secure the border and deport all illegals- do it now! ~ Support our Troops!~)
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To: freedomfiter2
“why buy the cow when you can milk the whole herd?”

It's funny because it's true.

113 posted on 04/30/2011 5:25:56 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: Tammy8
I think ideally a couple should darn sure get to know each other for quite a while before marrying- whether they live together or not.

Yep. And I would add that they need to look for character traits WITHOUT love-colored glasses. REALLY look. Unfortunately, too many people let their feelings color their judgment when it comes to dating.

114 posted on 04/30/2011 5:28:45 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: tjd1454
I’m not convinced by the men on this thread who claim wonderful relationships that began with cohabitation. I’d like to ask their wives: would you had preferred - i.e., would you feel more respected - if your husband had waited for you until he actually married you? I believe the honest answers to that question would be very revealing.

I got my wife to read this, and got her response. She says that neither of us were virgins, in fact we'd both been married before, so chastity would have have been just weird.

On a personal note, I am grateful I did not cohabit with my wife beforehand, as I she probably would have backed out of marrying me once she saw how imperfect I was (and am). Thankfully, we both believed marriage to be a lifelong commitment, and are now in our 23rd year.

We obviously did live together, and we're just a bit behind you. We have been together 21 years this last December, and we'll have been married for 20 years this June. I don't see a divorce on the horizon.

115 posted on 04/30/2011 5:32:59 PM PDT by Melas
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To: marshmallow
"The Archbishop of York backed Prince William and Kate Middleton’s decision to live together before marriage, saying that many modern couples want to “test the milk before they buy the cow”.

It's a good think this inartful man has someone else writing his sermons for him.

While they shouldn't have been cohabiting, the right choice for cohabitants is to get to the church and take the vows. So Bravo for making the right choice in the end. There are quite a few folks who started out on the wrong foot but did well. The Archbishop should not have given his approval, he should have looked forward, praised them for making their commitment, and left it at that.

116 posted on 04/30/2011 5:34:46 PM PDT by cookcounty (Eric Holder, Head of the Department of JUST-US.)
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To: manc; Jeff Chandler
then take a vote, go out and take a poll which is better, go on the street and ask folks.

My husband and I celebrated our 14th wedding anniversary in February and will celebrate 24 years together in June. Our daughter will be 13 in July.

We lived together for 5 years before we got married and actually got married while he was unemployed because of being in the midst of a worker's comp lawsuit. We've been through all kinds of h3ll, but neither of us can imagine trying to go through any of it without each other.

The Good Lord will judge us when the time comes, but I don't believe HE will look all that unfavorably on us, if for nothing else than the fact that our beautiful daughter loves Him and His Word because of the way she is being raised.

I personally find sanctimony a far worse sin than cohabiting.

117 posted on 04/30/2011 5:43:47 PM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: marshmallow

A good example of why I thought the who to do about the royal wedding was sad.

It was a farce. A funeral for a great nation and people played out on a world stage.


118 posted on 04/30/2011 5:44:35 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: tiki; manc
Statistics say that those who live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced.

Statistics can say lots of things. They are just numbers and can be shown to say anything the party spouting them chooses them to say.

119 posted on 04/30/2011 5:52:05 PM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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Comment #120 Removed by Moderator

To: The Magical Mischief Tour

If you need to live with your girlfriend/boyfriend to learn that they are abusive, I’m simply shocked.


121 posted on 04/30/2011 6:10:16 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: Gabz

Then seek comfort without him.

I find it amusing that the boomer generation dumped this garbage on us, and continues to try to justify their bad habits.


122 posted on 04/30/2011 6:11:47 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: Aliska

;it doesn’t seem to be have been important that a woman derived any sexual pleasure”

Wholly false. You need only look at the ‘estasy of St. Theresa’ to see the truth.

The argument is not that the woman denies herself sexual pleasure outside of marriage, but that she deprives herself from the sexual pleasure to be had in marriage.


123 posted on 04/30/2011 6:15:06 PM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: manc
whon said this was about sex, you can live with each pother and not have sex till marriage Yeah, like that happens - anyone that says they are would either be lying or impotent or gay.
124 posted on 04/30/2011 6:17:37 PM PDT by conservaterian (Sarah/DeMint '12)
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To: Jeff Chandler
It kind of sucks when you realize that I'm not the one who brought religion and the Bible into the discussion, huh?

No, considering the article that started this entire discussion was about religion and the Bible --- or did you fail to notice that? Just as you failed to notice you were only a secondary name on my post, out of courtesy, and not the main person to whom I was responding?

It kind of .......... isn't pleasant when you realize vulgarity is totally unnecessary to attempt to make a point in a discussion, isn't it?

125 posted on 04/30/2011 6:23:45 PM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: BenKenobi

HUH?


126 posted on 04/30/2011 6:27:44 PM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: marshmallow

The church of what’s happening now.


127 posted on 04/30/2011 6:27:58 PM PDT by stevio (God, guns, guts.)
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To: Gabz
No, considering the article that started this entire discussion was about religion and the Bible --- or did you fail to notice that?

Actually, I addressed the narrow subject of the wisdom of a parent teaching his daughter to allow herself to be sampled. You brought in your certitude that God will forgive non-repented sins.

My vulgarity served to cut to the heart of the matter. Mission accomplished.

128 posted on 04/30/2011 6:31:52 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: freedumb2003
Women who live together with men outside of marriage are insane. And have no self-respect.
I agree with you! A woman is afraid of losing her man, but any guy that would ditch a woman just because she won't have sex with him, ain't worth the lady's time. Wait 'til you're married gals. It's a gift to your husband that he will appreciate not just on his wedding night, but forever. And the reverse holds true as well. And for those who have messed up in this regard, that's why Catholics have Confession. (Great faith for sinners!)
129 posted on 04/30/2011 6:34:36 PM PDT by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: manc
You're welcome. I neglected to mention that I was married for 11 years and then divorced. It makes some difference, at least in my time.

I very much dreaded an out-of-wedlock pregnancy because without ever talking about teenage sex in our household, I knew that would bring shame on both me and my parents.

I've had plenty of years to ponder the failure of my marriage and will mention one because I've never seen it applied in modern times. Obedience to parents. There are more commandments than the 6th and 9th. Over a period of four years, I defied them and eventually wore them down. They relented and I got married, but I always knew they had wanted better for me.

So one mistake can cause a lifetime of pain, even if you have repented of it. Actions have consequences. And my children have paid and are paying for the consequences of their choices even though they have some good times. Naturally, loving them as I have, their mistakes add to the cumulative pain of my own.

And don't think the divorce didn't cause my children pain, a great deal of it, some of which was not my fault, because it did, even though as adults, they now understand why it was for the best.

130 posted on 04/30/2011 6:36:17 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: redgolum
A funeral for a great nation and people played out on a world stage.

Charles and Diane's wedding had better toasts:

Here's to the Royal Couple.
Drink up!
Drink up!
Drink up Chuck and Di!

131 posted on 04/30/2011 6:41:53 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: marshmallow
The teaching that matrimony is a sacrament gives to this clergy the judging of the lawfulness of marriages and ecclesiastical censure for divorce... The government of men's external actions by religion, pretending the change of nature in their consecrations cannot be esteemed a work extraordinary, it is no other than a conjuration or incantation, whereby they would have men to believe an alteration of nature that is contrary to the testimony of sight and of all the rest of the senses... This idea "thou shalt marry and be given in marriage" is corrupt and degenerate, which is an impossible immortality of a kind, but not of the persons of men. These ecclesiastic Presbyters would have men believe they are not worthy to be counted amongst them that shall obtain the next world, or absolute resurrection from the dead, as inmates of the world; and to the end only to receive condign punishment for their contumacy of monogamy as opposed to the freedom of the polygamy found in nature. The Archbishop (with NO due respect) is a relic of a monarchy that is dying from self inflicted wounds...
132 posted on 04/30/2011 6:43:38 PM PDT by Sir Francis Dashwood (Arjuna, why have you have dropped your bow???)
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To: marshmallow

Well, from seeing the problem from my patients I can tell you: the problem with living together is that the woman sees it as a prelude to marriage, and the guy sees it as...living together.

And, of course, often the girl is stuck doing the housework etc. and changing her life to fit his desires (and alas too many are so stupid as to be the one who not only does the housework, but works and supports the guy).

So when the couple would come into my office, and I asked their relationship, the woman would often say “My fiance” and the man “My girlfriend”.

In a lot of cases, the girl is abandoned when she “accidentally” gets pregnant...

This insecurity, knowing the guy wants you but not enough to care for you in pregnancy or times of trouble, leads the girl to be insecure, so when they marry, all the anger she has hidden inside (for fear he’s leave) comes out and voila, divorce.

Older couples who are divorced often live together because they don’t trust marriage and want to stay independent...both in money and life.

Often for these folks, it’s the woman who is in no hurry to marry, for fear of being stuck in a passive relatsionship where she has to sacrifice her hard won freedom (money and emotional) to his good. Not sure what happens when he gets old and sick...I have not run into a lot of heterosexual unmarried couples who nurse each other through a long debilitation final illness.

I’m old enough, however, to see one advantage to living together: I’m old enough to remember when a lot of closet gays married to cover up their attraction to the same sex. Often the spouse ended up depressed and not understanding why the spouse didn’t find them attractive.

This is the best argument I can see for “gay marriage”: That “religioius” gays will marry each other, not exploit a naive young woman to get cured. Yes, “gay marriage” is a “sin”, but what about the women and children who suffer in such a loveless marriage, the woman (or in one case, a man) often blaming herself for the problem, and the children soured on marriage.


133 posted on 04/30/2011 6:46:12 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Jeff Chandler
You brought in your certitude that God will forgive non-repented sins.

I did? That's odd, as that is not something I believe at all.

As to your vulgarity, it only served to tell me you have a mission to prove your difficulty expressing yourself without it. You accomplished your mission.

134 posted on 04/30/2011 6:58:00 PM PDT by Gabz (Democrats for Voldemort.)
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To: tjd1454
I commend you for your patience and thank you for the thoughtful post. You mentioned your faults and your wife might not have married you. Anything is possible, but some find certain shortcomings annoying while others can find them endearing.

Then you pose a question which would require soul searching on those to whom it would apply to answer honestly. I don't know how I would answer it were that I. What I do know well is feeling guilt. Which brings us back to a question I posed which no one has attempted to answer. In short, why no evidence of guilt, not that it would always be easy to detect outwardly, but sometimes it definitely is?

These young people seem to feel no sense of shame or guilt. The secular world has tried to wean us away from most of it. Indeed, you see young women who are proud of having children out of wedlock (or shacking up). So what happened between my generation and theirs?

All that being said, I'm glad society generally doesn't give the the Scarlet Letter treatment either. But consciously depriving one's children of a two-parent home, that can have negative consequences as well what we've been thrashing around here.

I don't need studies to show me that almost overwhelmingly, children from two-parent homes have seemed to fare better in life. Some, sooner or later, no matter how bad the start, do manage to mature and learn from their parent(s)' mistakes.

135 posted on 04/30/2011 7:00:18 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: manc

You wrote:

“simple for you this, if you make a stupid claim then back it up with independent sources, simple”

It’s even more simple than that: I DIDN’T MAKE THE CLAIM. Hopefully you will one day learn to read. With your performance thus far, that seems unlikely.


136 posted on 04/30/2011 7:05:05 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: BenKenobi
You made a valid point. St. Teresa described her experience IIRC as somewhat like she imagined married persons enjoyed. I was trying to confine my comments to those who didn't intend to seek the higher state of holiness in this life. It's not for everyone.

So I don't know if I'm entirely wrong or not. All I have to go by are what I've read of how it was in the past. Many marriages were contractual; some father's respected their daughter's wishes, and some didn't. Since I didn't live in those times, I can only glean little of what was discussed privately, what women knew, and how they came to know it.

I'll be brutally blunt. There are marriages where either the wife cannot achieve an orgasm, sometimes not at all, and husbands who are physically incapable or know how to satisfy their wives or partners sexually.

137 posted on 04/30/2011 7:11:58 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: trumandogz

I have three married cousins, a widowed sister and an engaged cousin. None of them cohabited. Not a scientific sample of course, just my 2 cents.


138 posted on 04/30/2011 7:14:26 PM PDT by TheDingoAteMyBaby
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To: Gabz

You wrote:

“...if for nothing else than the fact that our beautiful daughter loves Him and His Word because of the way she is being raised.”

I believe you are sincere, but here’s the problem: How can you be raising her right if you’re telling her she can have sex before marriage (if she goes by your example)? No where in scripture, or tradition, do you find any support for that. Saying that to you is not sanctimony on our part. It is simply the truth.

“I personally find sanctimony a far worse sin than cohabiting.”

Sexual sins are not the worst sins. Murder, of course, is worse than fornication. But that doesn’t mean fornication isn’t a sin.

It is stunning to me how people who consider themselves Christians routinely deny that sin is sin. Then again: http://www.amazon.com/Nobody-Calls-Anymore-Kenneth-Roberts/dp/0879739150


139 posted on 04/30/2011 7:15:10 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: vladimir998
Sexual sins are not the worst sins. Murder, of course, is worse than fornication. But that doesn’t mean fornication isn’t a sin.
Over fifty million babies in heaven agree with you.
140 posted on 04/30/2011 7:24:03 PM PDT by mlizzy (Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee ...)
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To: LastNorwegian

Why buy the pig....ahhhh nevermind.


141 posted on 04/30/2011 7:40:17 PM PDT by proudtobeanamerican1 (A house divided against itself cannot stand.” Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Mr Rogers

Good news is that you can vote Obama out come next year.


142 posted on 04/30/2011 8:00:22 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: Biggirl

Sure hope so..what a disaster!


143 posted on 04/30/2011 8:05:54 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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Comment #144 Removed by Moderator

To: Gabz

good for you and I wish you well, I really do and we’re going on 16 years too

thank you for making a post which is from experience and a happy one too, hope you and your family have a good and healthy future.


145 posted on 04/30/2011 8:56:34 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: vladimir998

but you feel the need to but in


146 posted on 04/30/2011 8:58:05 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: Aliska

beautiful post from your experience and heart, it’s late here but I will reply privately tomorrow if I have time if you dn’t mind.

I would love to carry this on but I’m so tired right now, so I’m sorry


147 posted on 04/30/2011 9:00:57 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: manc
Click here
Report: Cohabiting has little effect on marriage success
148 posted on 04/30/2011 9:04:34 PM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: Little Bill

I’m 57 and just heard from a Relative about a couple of my Aunts and Uncles who beat a path to the Courthouse because there was a bun in the oven. That was over fifty years ago.

I wonder if a couple of my Cousins are privy to their interesting start in life.

It takes a while for all the skeletons to fall out of the closet, but they all eventually do. Human nature is a constant.


149 posted on 04/30/2011 9:12:40 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Natural Born Taxpayer on Board...)
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To: ladyjane

Pity the man that short changes a woman. LOL


150 posted on 04/30/2011 9:13:37 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Natural Born Taxpayer on Board...)
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