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Royal Wedding: Archbishop Backs William and Kate's Decision to Live Together Before Marriage
The Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | 4/29/11 | Tim Ross, Jonathan Wynne-Jones and Gordon Rayner

Posted on 04/30/2011 2:38:35 PM PDT by marshmallow

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To: Jeff Chandler

WOW

well we’ve been married for going on 16 years, have 3 kids and lived with each other for 2 years before marriage and we did the right thing, infact she has just read your post and said some words which might make you happy.

Also ever heard of living with each other and not having sex?


51 posted on 04/30/2011 3:10:09 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

Here is a couple when I googled cohabiation and divorce rates(see below) . Obviously not everybody who lives together before will get a divorce and whose who don’t live together before marraige will not divorce.. However, stattistically speaking, your chances are greater for divorce if you living together before marriage..

And if read Mona Charen column citing studies by Charles Murray a couples of days ago, married people tend to be happier, children are more balanced and do better in school and it keeps women from going into poverty.

http://www.rayfowler.org/2008/04/18/statistics-on-living-together-before-marriage/

/www.nytimes.com/1987/12/07/us/divorce-may-be-the-price-of-living-together-first.html

Also, google cohabitotion and divorce rartes.


52 posted on 04/30/2011 3:10:17 PM PDT by scbison
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To: Jeff Chandler

EDIT
WOW

well we’ve been married for going on 16 years, have 3 kids and lived with each other for 2 years before marriage and we did the right thing, infact she has just read your post and said some words which might NOT make you happy.

Also ever heard of living with each other and not having sex?


53 posted on 04/30/2011 3:10:25 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: vladimir998

you said stats back your view up and yet give nothing , so why should I waste my time looking when I did not make the claim


54 posted on 04/30/2011 3:11:23 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: ladyjane
It's the gal who is checking out the guy's stuff.

LOL! Wouldn't want to get stuck with a teeny peeny, now would she?

55 posted on 04/30/2011 3:12:06 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: marshmallow
This strikes me as more annoying than the actual fact that they lived together. I can't see the pope or an orthodox priest saying something like this. That cow and milk analogy comes across as unbefitting a clergyman.

Some women seem to do it trying to get a hold on the guy hoping he won't stray to someone else.

I wish somebody could explain why young people don't appear to have any sense of guilt. Is it a generational thing and not spiritual?

In my experience, if I didn't put out, and sometimes I did which to this day makes me feel ashamed, they quickly found someone else that would. Some very few seem to care and respect the woman so much that they will stick by her and go without until marriage.

I have pondered the issue of sexual compatibility now that I've learned a few more things. How do you know if you don't do it? I asked a priest about it, and he said God takes care of it. I wonder.

56 posted on 04/30/2011 3:13:14 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: scbison

it’s another religious link. I can hardly use that when putting forth your view point , I need an objective link if you have one please.

I’m not asking for it now but some time when you have more time


57 posted on 04/30/2011 3:13:33 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: manc

Some women pass muster, and some don’t. The cool thing is that if she gets knocked up during the test drive, she can abort it.

Win-win.


58 posted on 04/30/2011 3:14:31 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: manc

You wrote:

“you said stats back your view up”

False. I never made that claim. I am more than happy to do so, but I didn’t.

” and yet give nothing ,”

False again. I posted a good link to info.

” so why should I waste my time looking when I did not make the claim”

I didn’t make the claim either. I just kindly provided the link. I am not helpless. Apparently you are.


59 posted on 04/30/2011 3:15:20 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Recall how the Church of England got its start: Henry VIII wanted a divorce from Catherine so he could marry Anne Boleyn.

Maybe they’re still making allowances for royalty.


60 posted on 04/30/2011 3:15:43 PM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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To: Aliska

agreed, I do not like how he said it but I do agree with him.

My now wife and I lived for two year with each other and now we have 3 kids and been nearly 16 years, all A honor roll students who have never been in trouble.

That not might go with some views but we’re happy we did it and no some do not have sex living wit each other before marriage


61 posted on 04/30/2011 3:15:50 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: marshmallow

A simple No Comment would have sufficed.


62 posted on 04/30/2011 3:16:25 PM PDT by Venturer
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To: vladimir998

Ok I should have posted to someone else


63 posted on 04/30/2011 3:16:31 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: scbison

Good job there, you’ve cited a source who’s completely biased (a religious source) and the NY Times who cites a study out of Sweden from 1981...

Can you find anything that post dates the Reagan Admin?

Sweden, Incidentally has one of the highest suicide rates in the industrialized world.

Way to go...


64 posted on 04/30/2011 3:16:49 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: Jeff Chandler

I’m his wife and I want you to know that some couples do not have sex while living together and I hope you can put your way of words better next time.


65 posted on 04/30/2011 3:18:08 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: manc

You wrote:

“it’s another religious link.”

And?

” I can hardly use that when putting forth your view point “

Why? Are you saying that because it is a religious site that means the site’s info is bad? So, if a bishop says the earth is not flat you doubt him because he is religious?

” I need an objective link if you have one please.”

All links are objective. All of them. They’re just links. Sources, however, may not be objective. You apparently can’t tell the difference. Maybe you should psend less time whinning to people about what they post to you as links and simply look for yourself.

“I’m not asking for it now but some time when you have more time”

And in that time you could simply look for yourself. Why don’t you?


66 posted on 04/30/2011 3:19:49 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: marshmallow

The guy is a positive moron.

I can understand that he might not want to speak critically about the royal couple in the media right after they got married, but there are various ways that he could have simply dodged the question, if he didn’t want to make an example of them.

But saying that premarital cohabitation is a good idea is NOT something that the head of the Anglican Church should be doing.

What a moron. It’s not only completely wrong in Christian teaching, statistical analysis has repeatedly shown that on average people who live together before marriage are LESS likely to stay married than people who wait.

But it’s hardly a surprise from this gay-loving, Muslim-loving jerk who was chosen for his job by Tony Blair, who wanted someone who would normalize gay bishops.


67 posted on 04/30/2011 3:20:07 PM PDT by Cicero
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To: Jeff Chandler
What kind of parent wants a man to "try out" his daughter's vagina before committing to love and cherish her?

I've never heard it put that way. Excellent analogy and one I wouldn't want for my daughter, for sure.

68 posted on 04/30/2011 3:21:57 PM PDT by Sister_T ("Calling ILLEGAL aliens "immigrants" is like calling shoplifters 'customers'!"-UCFRoadWarrior ><>)
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To: vladimir998

Look When I don’t make a stupid claim I will not waste my time looking , it’;s that easy and if you don’;t like how my wife and I lived with each other then tough, you can preach your views to your kids , do you have any?

If I did make a claim then I would back it up with a link which comes from a good independent source


69 posted on 04/30/2011 3:22:40 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: WinOne4TheGipper

I’d rather couples who are interested in each other consider the sanctity of their potential union and spend time together and apart preparing for the difficulties they may face and deepening their relationship so that if he snores she won’t shoot him in the head with a shotgun just out of sheer petty annoyance.

But I’m in the minority and frankly I was shocked to see Rowan Williams officiate and use the words “The Father The Son and The Holy Ghost”. I would have thought he’d be referring to allah thru the whole thing. I was surprised there were enough Christians left in England to fill Westminster.


70 posted on 04/30/2011 3:23:09 PM PDT by Rytas
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To: ladyjane

Sweet Heart, the first truth that I have seen in the man woman wars on FR in all the years that I have been a member. Love you!


71 posted on 04/30/2011 3:23:14 PM PDT by Little Bill (Sorry)
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To: manc
I’m his wife and I want you to know that some couples do not have sex while living together and I hope you can put your way of words better next time.

Let's take a vote on how many people believe that such a couple would be representative of the norm?

72 posted on 04/30/2011 3:23:28 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: Sister_T

that is you and you can pass your views onto your kids but I’;d rather my kids do live before marriage and no they don’;t have to have sex.

Seems some think because people live with each other it is all about sex, speaks volumes, and no I’m not on about you either


73 posted on 04/30/2011 3:24:15 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: Jeff Chandler

then take a vote, go out and take a poll which is better, go on the street and ask folks.

I’;m sure they will all say the same as you, yea right.

You got kids have you?


74 posted on 04/30/2011 3:25:39 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

http://studiesoflove.com/marriage/cohabitingvsmarriage.html


75 posted on 04/30/2011 3:25:40 PM PDT by scbison
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To: struggle
Hard to figure it out? No it's not, you just don't want to face up completely to the fact that what you did was wrong and there wasn't a redeeming value to it. What you did was wrong, end of story. God can, and does, see His will carried out despite us at times, but let's call it what it is here. You were living in sin and there's not a bright side to it.

Now, I guess that you've since repented of it and asked for forgiveness, since you've mentioned that your wife is now a Christian, and that is an extremely good thing, but don't taint the salvation of yourself and your wife by saying that your sins were somehow a good thing or beneficial in your salvation. To do so cheapens the sacrifice that Christ made for us.

76 posted on 04/30/2011 3:26:24 PM PDT by paladin1_dcs
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To: Sister_T
What kind of parent wants a man to "try out" his daughter's vagina before committing to love and cherish her?
 

I've never heard it put that way. Excellent analogy and one I wouldn't want for my daughter, for sure.

Thank you. It was intended to cut to the heart of the matter: that human beings are far more than their sex organs and my idea of a parent who loves his daughter is one who doesn't want her to be "sampled" by a man.

77 posted on 04/30/2011 3:29:16 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: manc

You wrote:

“Look When I don’t make a stupid claim I will not waste my time looking ,”

No, what you’ll waste OUR time doing is criticizing sources you apparently can’t grapple with by dismissing them because they are posted on religious websites - as if that somehow negates the actual info.

“it’;s that easy and if you don’;t like how my wife and I lived with each other then tough, you can preach your views to your kids , do you have any?”

I never said anything about you and your wife shacking up. Again, you are apparently confusing me with someone else. Please get a clue and pay attention. Also, if I want to post my views on here I can - I’m a registered member in good standing just like everyone else. And whether or not I have children has nothing at all to do with the truth about cohabitation and divorce and is also NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

“If I did make a claim then I would back it up with a link which comes from a good independent source”

No such thing. All sources are produced by people and organizations and none of them are truly independent. They all have points of view, beliefs, biases and are capable of error. What you’re doing is dismissing out of hand information given to you. You are apparently doing it because you can’t answer it. Again, look on google and you might get a clue.


78 posted on 04/30/2011 3:29:39 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Copts, Nazis, Franks and Beans - what a public school education puts in your head.)
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To: The Magical Mischief Tour

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-07-28-cohabitation-research_N.htm

This article says rates are higher for people who cohabitate before but don’t blame it on living together..


79 posted on 04/30/2011 3:31:25 PM PDT by scbison
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To: marshmallow; Gil4; Bockscar; Mary Kochan; Bed_Zeppelin; YellowRoseofTx; Rashputin; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.


80 posted on 04/30/2011 3:33:14 PM PDT by narses ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions." Chesterton)
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To: manc
People move in together often for convenience. They don't want to spend the night at the others place, get up and go back home to get cleaned up and off to work. They shack up to help split the bills and save money, because they want to play house etc. Rarely is it because they want to commit their lives to each other forever.

With marriage however it is a commitment, because one does it out of love and deep feelings for each other and not for any financial or logistical reasons.

81 posted on 04/30/2011 3:35:10 PM PDT by LukeL (Barack Obama: Jimmy Carter 2 Electric Boogaloo)
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To: manc
I wouldn't have done it but did the other so who am I to say? I was a single mom, never had a man move in. All three of my children have done it. Two have divorced and remarried, and one never got married, doesn't seem to want to.

Since so many do it these days, I'm not judging anyone. It's their business. I wish them all well.

I don't mean to make this all about sex because it isn't but is a big issue. Historically in Western culture, it doesn't seem to be have been important that a woman derived any sexual pleasure to the point of fulfillment, just produce children and be a good wife, the worst was chastity belts but never that female circumcision. Sometimes I wondered if little boys were neutered for singing, but I don't know. Obviously some women had to have caught on to it at some point. It was common for men to have both wives and mistresses, and the wives put up with it because it was accepted and divorces were rare and prohibited. And this was Catholic Europe. I emphasize that nothing is always true across the board.

There are hints in Chaucer and some novels that used to be on the banned list that women indeed desired sexual fulfillment as well as the man.

To me, it's all a lottery, and some people are just luckier than others. I don't condone it but neither do I condemn it (on a couple's level), just on principle because that's what the bible says and the church has always taught. Leave it to God and His mercy.

I wish you well too, glad to hear your children are growing up well. You must have learned good parenting skills along the way.

82 posted on 04/30/2011 3:35:39 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: scbison

http://studiesoflove.com/marriage/premaritalsexdivorce.html

Seems to contradict their other post...


83 posted on 04/30/2011 3:38:03 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: manc

You’re changing the subject. You stated that not all couples who live together are having sex. I contend that the number of cohabiting couples abstaining from sex is so small as to be statistically insignificant.

To get a meaningful result from a poll on the subject of the goodness of shacking up, a better group to question would be couples with long, successful marriages, say 25 years or more.


84 posted on 04/30/2011 3:39:30 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: scbison

You need to read that USA Today study, it clearly says the study is not reflective and the numbers are skewed because the rates of cohabitation are much, much higher today that from earlier years, so the rates of divorce from any marriages would be higher.

Its not a scientific study its simply a cautionary tale.

So far you’ve not posted anything from religious spew, something from a “love” website and this, which cautions its readers to not take it for any statistical nor scientific value.


85 posted on 04/30/2011 3:42:10 PM PDT by The Magical Mischief Tour (With The Resistance...)
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To: abb

In that regard the archbishop’s statement could be considered progress.


86 posted on 04/30/2011 3:47:48 PM PDT by rwilson99 (Please tell me how the words "shall not perish and have everlasting life" would NOT apply to Mary.)
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To: Aliska

“Some very few seem to care and respect the woman so much that they will stick by her and go without until marriage.”

Key point - thanks for sharing. If a man truly loves and respects the woman he claims to love, he will either make a lifetime commitment to her (called “marriage”), or respect her until he is ready to do so. I’m not convinced by the men on this thread who claim wonderful relationships that began with cohabitation. I’d like to ask their wives: would you had preferred - i.e., would you feel more respected - if your husband had waited for you until he actually married you? I believe the honest answers to that question would be very revealing.

My grandmother used to say of those who “tested the waters” without getting married: “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” As far as I can tell, it is the man who benefits from this kind of arrangement.

The Bishop of York has revealed his shallow capitulation to popular culture by abdicating from his responsibility to uphold Christian teaching that sexual relations are intended only for marriage.

Marriage requires a tremendous amount of compromise and the willingness to change and adapt to someone who is as radically different from you as men are different from women. It is utterly self-serving (and the opposite of love) to insist on becoming intimate with your “potential” wife before you are willing to commit to her. That is why so few cohabiting couples end up actually getting married.

On a personal note, I am grateful I did not cohabit with my wife beforehand, as I she probably would have backed out of marrying me once she saw how imperfect I was (and am). Thankfully, we both believed marriage to be a lifelong commitment, and are now in our 23rd year.

My Swiss wife has a saying: “Wir sind nicht immer fruendlich, aber wir sind immer treu.” Translated: We are not always friendly, but we are always true.”

And don’t get me started on the children - the love and commitment of their mother and father is the center of their world, and helps them to believe that love really exists.


87 posted on 04/30/2011 4:02:44 PM PDT by tjd1454
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To: marshmallow
And once again the Catholic Church stands firm!!!!

There was a thread about a bishop speaking out against this co-habitation habit......pun inteneded.

88 posted on 04/30/2011 4:11:35 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Jeff Chandler

A man who wants to take my daughter for a test drive ought to remember I have a shotgun, a shovel and a large backyard...

Fornication - the old word for shacking up - is a good deal for guys and a terrible one for girls. And in the long run, it is good for neither the guy, the girl, or society. God is not mocked.

But then, I tend to think Obama is God’s judgment on our society...and figure we have no right to call God unjust. A society that rejects Him will get what it deserves.

“19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, 21envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
- Galatians 5


89 posted on 04/30/2011 4:20:20 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
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To: marshmallow
“We are living at a time

And there is the problem with non-Catholic, protestant denominations that feel compelled to comply with the times. Their statements do not follow scripture.

90 posted on 04/30/2011 4:28:03 PM PDT by NYer ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: manc
I’d rather my kids live with their future spouse too instead of them now moving in once married and finding out that they have made a huge mistake like he’s a slob, she’s a layabout etc
And society's slide into immmoral oblivion continues when sin such as this becomes tolerated (and even encouraged) on a conservative website such as this. Sex before marriage is the same as adultery but who cares about those pesky Ten Commandments anyway?
91 posted on 04/30/2011 4:42:04 PM PDT by conservaterian (Sarah/DeMint '12)
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To: tjd1454
the children - the love and commitment of their mother and father is the center of their world, and helps them to believe that love really exists.

Du hast Recht.

92 posted on 04/30/2011 4:46:25 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Shemp was the Fourth Stooge of the Apocalypse.)
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To: manc

Statistics say that those who live together before marriage are more likely to get divorced.


93 posted on 04/30/2011 4:49:58 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Cicero

Well one take confort in one thing, the Archbishop looks like he is close to retirement and with more of the more conservative Anglicans taking the offer to sail down the Tiber, one day Westminister could very well be one day part of Rome.


94 posted on 04/30/2011 4:51:29 PM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: jagusafr

And in Texas, the adage is, “Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?”

I think that saying is morphing into “why buy the cow when you can milk the whole herd?”.


95 posted on 04/30/2011 4:55:14 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: vladimir998

simple for you this, if you make a stupid claim then back it up with independent sources, simple


96 posted on 04/30/2011 4:56:32 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: Mr Rogers
But then, I tend to think Obama is God’s judgment on our society

I often have similar thoughts.

97 posted on 04/30/2011 4:57:07 PM PDT by WPaCon (Obama: pansy progressive, mad Mohammedan, or totalitarian tyrant? Or all three?)
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To: LukeL

we lived with each other as we were room mates and worked with each other, later we became more friendly and then got married.


98 posted on 04/30/2011 4:57:21 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: Aliska

thank you for the kind mature post, and I wish you and your family well,


99 posted on 04/30/2011 4:58:10 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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To: Jeff Chandler

do you actually have kids or do you preach and how you do it to others?


100 posted on 04/30/2011 4:59:03 PM PDT by manc (Shame on all who voted for the repeal of DADT, who supported it or never tried to stop it. Traitors)
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