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How to Address Priests and Religious: Titles and Signs of Respect [Ecumenical]
St.JoanVV.org ^ | 2002 | Marian Therese Horvat, Ph.D

Posted on 05/02/2011 9:43:40 AM PDT by Salvation

How to Address Priests and Religious:
Titles and Signs of Respect


Marian Therese Horvat, Ph.D

In times past every Catholic used to know some of the simple rules that have been set aside from disuse. The general protocol was taught by sisters in grade school, but more often was learned as in osmosis from everyday practice. No one dreamed of calling Father O’Reilly by the nickname “Bill,” or, addressing Sister Margaret Mary as “Maggie.”

Everyone knew you rose as a sign of respect when a priest or religious entered the room. Speaking before a gathering that included clergy or religious, a Catholic speaker as habit addressed them solemnly first.

But then came the tumultuous and leveling aftermath of Vatican II that spelled a death to formalities in the religious sphere. Priests, monks and sisters began to adopt the ways of a world that were becoming increasingly vulgar and egalitarian. Distinguishing titles and marks of respect were considered alienating and only for old-fashioned “establishment” people who were afraid to embrace the “signs of the times.”

In the spirit of adaptation to the world, the cassock and habit were abandoned, along with the formal signs of respect paid to the persons who wore them. Confusion set in: what do you call a nun in a pants suit who says, “Just call me Ann,” or a priest in a western shirt and cowboy boots, who says, “You can call me Cowboy Bob”? No, I’m not making that last one up.

This leveling egalitarian spirit violates not only tradition and the laws of civility, but also the practice of justice. We need only look to a basic principle of Roman Law, so coherent in its logic, which states that that each one should be given what he has a right to receive. Because people are unequal in status, situation, and talent, the necessity of justice demands unequal treatment. Catholic doctrine used to be applied concretely in Christian Civilization. Thus one could judge a person according to a code of rights, merits and honors, and according to this code, use a formula of respect suitable for each one and each occasion.

It is a great good to know how to give respectful treatment to a superior. Reciprocally, those in higher positions have a duty of justice to treat those below them with dignity and consideration. Let me give a charming example from our Catholic past: King Louis XIV took off his hat for every woman, even if she were a simple housemaid. But he did not remove it for a man unless he were a member of the clergy or a royal family. For a man with a Catholic spirit, this hierarchical order of dignities provides a kind of oxygen that makes it easier to breathe.

 

Addressing priests and religious

Today, some serious Catholics are doing more than reminiscing about those “good old days.” Aware of the importance of not only exterior demeanor and symbols, but also the ways of treatment and address that were accorded to religious as their just due, they would like to return to the basic courtesies. It is a very positive step.

Let me turn, then, to the first question:

1. Should we call a priest by his first name or last name? I can remember in elementary school all the priests went by their last names, but now they seem to want to be called by their first.

The answer is simple. Father William Walters should be addressed as Father Walters or as Father, not as Father Bill, and certainly not as Bill. In the really old times, to which I would like to return, you would address him as Your Reverence.

In addressing an envelope to a priest you would write The Reverend Father William Walters, or The Reverend William Walters. Don’t forget the The. If you want to be more polite you could use His Reverence.

If the letter is formal, the salutation would be The Reverend Father Walter; for a personal letter, the salutation would be Father Walters, or if you know him better, Dear Father Walters.

If you are writing to priest who is a member of religious order, you would add the initials of his community after his name, e.g. The Reverend Philip Amato, O.F.M. , or The Reverend Father Philip Amato, O.F.M. (1) A brother, one who has taken the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience in an order but has not received the Sacrament of Holy Orders, should always be called Brother, not Father. In written address, his initials would also follow his name, e.g., Brother Francis Marie, O.F.M.

(1) Abbreviations for some of the more familiar religious institutes for men and women are listed for your reference at the end of the article. A full listing can be found in a Catholic Almanac.

It is my first choice to maintain the address Father William Walters or The Reverend Father William Walters in preference to simply The Reverend in the formal or written address. Since most Protestant ministers are addressed as “the reverend,” this puts a healthy distinction between the Catholic priest and the Protestant preacher, and does not place the priest on the same level as men who are not Catholic.

For the same reason, it is inconvenient for a Catholic to call a Protestant preacher “reverend,” because this is to indirectly confer legitimacy to his heretical confession. It is much better to call a Lutheran Mr. Jones instead of reverend Jones, or use the title Doctor or Professor, if it is applicable. In writing, it is sometimes necessary to refer to a Protestant as bishop, but the title should be lower case, e.g. bishop Philip Robinson, or Protestant bishop Robinson, as a sign of differentiation from the Catholic Bishop.

We Americans have the duty to be especially vigilant regarding tolerance toward Protestantism. It was such tolerance that produced the heresy of Americanism, which in final analysis, is to adapt Catholic doctrine and practices to Protestantism. Unfortunately that same penchant that induced Leo XIII to write against Americanism is still alive today not only among progressivist Catholics, but even among conservative or traditionalist American Catholics.

The same general rule regarding Protestants – that is, to avoid the religious title in direct address – would apply to the hierarchy in other heretical or schismatic confessions. If a title is used in writing, it should be lower case, e.g. rabbi Jacob Levinsky, or for an “orthodox” bishop, bishop Michael Baldwin, etc.

The Rules Simply Stated

Going up the Catholic hierarchical ladder, these are the basic rules to serve you in day-to-day circumstances:

Brother

Direct address: Brother Elias.
Written address: Brother Elias, O.F.M.
Formal introduction: Brother Elias of the Order of Friars Minor.

Religious Priest

Direct address: Father McKenzie, or Father.
Written address: The Reverend Father Leo F. McKenzie, S.J.
Formal introduction: The Reverend. Father Leo McKenzie of The Society of Jesus.

Diocesan Priest

Direct address: Father Butler, or Father.
Written address: The Reverend Father John W. Butler.
Formal introduction: The Reverend. Father John Butler.

Monsignor

Direct address: Monsignor Smith, or Monsignor.
Written address: The Right Reverend Monsignor Thomas R. Smith, or The Very Reverend Monsignor Thomas R. Smith.
Formal introduction: The Very Reverend Monsignor Thomas Smith.

Bishop (2)

Direct address: Your Excellency, or Bishop McNeil.
Written address: His Excellency, The Right Reverend William A. Scully, D.D. Bishop of Baltimore. or His Excellency, The Right Reverend Bishop William Scully of Baltimore.
Formal closing: Kissing the Sacred Ring,
Formal introduction: His Excellency, the Bishop of Baltimore.

(2) It is common usage in Europe to address a Bishop, Archbishop or Cardinal as Monsignor (Msgr. or Msg.). This can be confusing to Americans, who commonly reserve the title strictly for the Monsignor, who is ranked below the Bishop.

Archbishop

Direct address: Your Grace, or Archbishop Kovak.
Written address: His Grace, The Most Reverend Michael T. Kovak, S.T.D. Archbishop of New York, or His Grace, The Most Reverend Archbishop Michael T. Kovak, of New York.
Formal closing: Kissing the Sacred Ring,
Formal introduction: His Grace, the Archbishop of Baltimore.

Patriarch

Direct address: Your Beatitude.
Written address: His Beatitude, the Most Reverend Michael Cardinal Sabbah, Patriarch of Jerusalem.
Formal introduction: His Beatitude, The Patriarch of Jerusalem.

Cardinal

Direct address: Your Eminence, or Cardinal Hand.
Written address: His Eminence, Thomas Cardinal Hand, Archbishop of Los Angeles, or, His Eminence, The Most Reverend Cardinal Thomas J. Hand, of Los Angeles.
Formal closing: Kissing the Sacred Purple,
Formal introduction: His Eminence, Cardinal of Los Angeles.

Pope

Direct address: Your Holiness, or Holy Father.
Written address: His Holiness, Pope Pius XII, or better, The Sovereign Pontiff, His Holiness Pius XII.
Formal closing: Kissing the Sacred Foot,
Formal introduction: His Holiness, the Pope.

Abbreviations

Abbreviations should follow this form:

Brother – Bro., or Br.;
Abbot – Ab.;
Father – Fr., or F. (plural – FF.);
Reverend Father – R.P. (Reverendus pater), or more often, Rev. Fr.;
Right Reverend, Most Reverend – RR. (Reverendissimus)
Monsignor – Msgr. or Mgr.;
Bishop – Ep., Epus. (Episcopus);
Archbishop – Archieps. (Archiepiscopus), or Arch.;
His Eminence – H.E.;
Eminence – Emus. (Eminentissimus)
His Holiness – H.H.

How should religious women be addressed?

Great respect used to be accorded to every religious woman, whose life, one knew, was one of constant self-sacrifice. Her habit was a sign of her vow of poverty and renunciation of normal vanities and pleasures as well as her perfect chastity. It also was a symbol of her life of obedience, which demanded a constant renunciation of her self-will.

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Bridgettine nuns in their beautiful traditional habits pray before the Blessed Sacrament in a church in Sweden.
Inside the Vatican, February 1996

While the terms nun and sister are interchangeable in the United States, Catholics should always address a religious woman as Sister: Sister Angela Marie. Like the simple brothers, the sisters are not distinguished by any special titles.

Often the superior of a religious house is called Mother. The titles can vary: Mother Superior, Mother Prioress, Mother Abbess, or for all of them you can simply say Reverend Mother or Your Reverence. The written address would be The Reverend Mother Catherine Marie of the Incarnation, O.C.D., or The Mother Abbess Margaret of the Sacred Heart. O.S.B., with the initials of the community added after the name.

Above, I gave some examples using the beautiful religious names sisters used to receive with the hope that there will be a return to the inspiring practice of leaving aside the name one had in the world to assume another as the spouse of Christ. Unfortunately, after Vatican II an increasing number of convents and monasteries have abandoned this practice and no longer assign their novices a new name in Christ as a sign of their renunciation of the world.

The Rules Simply Stated

Sister

Direct address: Sister Anthony Christine, or Sister.
Written address: Sister Anthony Christine, D.S.P.
Formal introduction: Sister Anthony Christine of the Daughters of St. Paul.

Mother Superior

Direct address: Reverend Mother Francis Louise, Reverend Mother, or Your Reverence.
Written address: The Reverend Mother Francis Louise, D.C.
Formal introduction: The Reverend Mother Francis Louise of the Daughters of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul.

Abbreviations:

Sister – Sr. (Soror);
Abbess – Ab.;
Reverend Mother – Rev. Mother.

What if a Priest Insists?

What do you do when the Father George O’Reilly wants to be called “Father George” and insists with you, or your children, on being addressed as such?

There is, of course, the American way of being blunt and honest, which would dictate an open confrontation about the modern tendencies of the address. “I just told Father what I thought about it,” the American might later boast. You can follow this school if you feel it necessary, but it is a bit gauche. The laws of courtesy we are aiming to restore would counsel us not to be party to that spirit, which can often leave ugly wounds in its bluntness and cross the line of honesty into rudeness. Here, it would be much better to employ a more subtle, and more Catholic behavior.

It is not difficult for an adult to calmly resolve the situation. One does not need to argue, protest, or correct. Continue to address the priest as Father O’Reilly, as the Church always taught us to do in English-speaking countries, and should he persist in his demands for less formality, explain simply that this is your preference. This should suffice given the reverence today’s society affords the argument of personal preference.

In the case of a priest insisting with a child on less formality, a parent should intervene and speak discretely to the priest: “Father, I am asking you the favor of not insisting that my child call you “George,” since this isn’t the custom in our family. I would appreciate your help and support in this.” Only rarely, in the case of extreme revolutionary bad will, is more than this necessary.

Children will naturally emulate the daily habits, manners, and attitudes of their parents. So the best way to instill the laws of civility as second nature in children is for parents to do what they want their children to emulate. A boy or girl whose father and mother are unfailingly courteous and considerate of Priests, Brothers and Sisters knows instinctively both how to act and that the religious vocation is respected. Here the Latin adage applies: verba docent, exempla trahunt. Freely translated it means: words teach, but it is example that makes the impact.

Other normal signs of respect

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Because of sacred mission of the priest, a special respect is owed him in social life.
Inside the Vatican, February 1996

Because of the great dignity of the priest due to his sacred mission, a special respect is owed him in social life. Men, women and children should rise when a priest enters the room, and remain standing when speaking to him if it is a brief contact. If it is a longer visit, after a cordial greeting all present can be seated, giving the priest the place of honor.

I remember so well that whenever the priest would enter the room in my parochial grade school, we would all rise and at a sign from Sister, greet him in unison, “Good morning, Father Kelly.” At another sign, we could sit down again. What order and serenity the observance of these small conventions guarantees even the small society of a classroom.

Back when men and boys more regularly wore real hats, they would remove them and remain uncovered in the presence of a religious or cleric. Today the ubiquitous baseball cap at least should be removed.

American manners have almost always been a bit rough – perhaps because of our tendency to celebrate the spontaneous spirit, and more probably because of a general egalitarian spirit that disdains class distinctions. At any rate, I am convinced most young Americans today truly are unaware that there is a proper order and seating arrangement to be following at Catholic gatherings and home dinner parties. At a baptismal or wedding party or a meeting of a Catholic organization, for example, a clergy present should be treated as guests of honors and in normal circumstances occupy the seat of honor. That place is at the right of the host or hostess, or chairman.

When several clergy are present, the position of honor is determined by rank in the hierarchy, or seniority. Thus, a Bishop takes precedence over a priest, priests take precedence over brothers, and brothers over sisters, an older priest over a younger.

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The hierarchical order is followed in ceremonial processions involving the clergy. Above, a Cardinal's majestic cape is solemnly carried.

For example, at a family dinner celebration at which a Monsignor and a priest are present, the Monsignor would be seated at the right side of the host or hostess, the priest at the left. According to the American etiquette books, the guest of honor would always be placed on the right and left of the hostess. But it is very common practice in Latin countries, and I believe a more organic custom, for a priest to be seated at the right side of the host, that is, the father, who is head of the family. Often, he will even cede his place to the priest, and especially to a Bishop, as a sign of respect and deference.

A mother can help a child to understand this hierarchical order in a very normal and natural way as she prepares for a dinner party and “preps” the family members:

“Mark, please set the table – remember, Father Burns will be sitting at your father’s right. Be sure to stand when Father enters and greet him, ‘Good evening, Father.’ Please don’t just say, 'Hi.' That’s what children without good manners do. And don’t forget to excuse yourself from the table, and when you have permission to leave, tell Father good night and that you enjoyed the evening.”

This kind of day-to-day manners class cultivates a courtesy that is effortless and genuine, which is what good manners by definition are.

Treatment of a Bishop

There is a special protocol for formally greeting a Bishop that needs to be dusted off and put back into daily usage. Because a Bishop has received the fullness of Holy Orders, that is, the power to administer confirmation and Holy Orders as well as all the other Sacraments, he receives a special distinction. He is a Prince of the Church and a Successor of the Apostles.

A Catholic formally greets a Bishop by kissing the ring on his right hand, one of his marks of office. Should circumstances permit, one kneels on one knee to kiss his ring. Kneeling on both knees as a mark of respect is reserved for the Blessed Sacrament when it is exposed.

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Spanish officers pay ceremonial homage to the Pontiff in a private audience at the Vatican, 1939.
Previews of the New Papacy, p, 74

If the circumstances make it difficult or gauche to kneel, it is appropriate to make a small sign of deference, standing and bending forward slightly from the waist to bring your lips to the ring of the Bishop, whose hand rests lightly in yours.

Do not be surprised if some Bishops step away from this proper address you offer. Today this formal address is avoided or shunned by many Bishops, influenced by the egalitarian spirit of Vatican II that calls for a “less vertical and more horizontal” Church. But this does not render such courtesies either improper or obsolete. Consider this advice from American Catholic Etiquette written in 1962:

“It is never wrong, either from a religious or social point of view, to greet a Bishop by kissing his ring. It is done at weddings, funerals, ordinations, any entertaining at which the Bishop is the host, or meetings of Catholic organizations…

“No layman, religious or cleric below the rank of Bishop sits in the presence of a Bishop until he invites one to do so. If seated, one rises when a Bishop approaches to address one and remains standing until he invites one to be seated.

“At a social gathering, the host, hostess or chairman says to the Bishop before all others present, ‘Please be seated, Your Excellency,’ and indicates a seat on his (her) right. If the Bishop arrives after the other guests, all rise when he enters and remains standing until he is seated.” (3)

These marks of respect should also be shown to clerics and religious by the laity, with the exception of kneeling before priests. Post-Vatican II Americans can be surprised to learn that a good custom still followed in well-bred Catholic circles is to kiss the hand of a priest in greeting him, as a signal of respect for the hand that consecrates in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

(3) Kay Toy Fenner, American Catholic Etiquette (Westminister, MD: The Newman Press, 1962), “Honoring a Bishop,” p. 227.

The Vatican II leveling spirit conflicts with Catholic tradition

The relaxed and vulgar new attitude in both the treatment and way of being of ecclesiastics has produced bad fruits: disrespect, impoliteness, rudeness, and a great loss of the dignity and sacrality that characterize the religious life. In fact, this modern spirit conflicts with age-old Church teaching on the spiritual life, which counsels that Catholic principles should be applied not only in strictly spiritual matters, but also in the familiar and social life. Catholic perfection also extends to these fields of human activity.

Confirming this, St. Bonaventure argued that the interior life is acquired and preserved through the exterior. Just as in nature, he said, there is never a tree without its leaves and bark, nor a fruit without its rind or husk to serve as protection, so also interior recollection is preserved by the exterior demeanor and ways of being and treatment. When the exterior fails, the other fails also. (4) The reckless experiment of the last decades after Vatican II has proven the truth of his words.

(4) Alphonsus Rodrigues, S.J., Practice of Perfection and Christian Virtue (Chicago: Loyola Un. Press, 1929) Vol. 2, p. 112-3.

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In Courbet's magnificent painting, The Blessing (La Benediction), one can see the

ceremonial life of Christian Civilization embraced and practiced by the people.
In the picture, the villagers pay profound homage to the Blessed Sacrament

and the clergy in the ceremony of the blessing of the fields.

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Some Common Religious Institutes of Men in the United States:

C.J.M. – Congregation of Jesus and Mary (Eudists)
C.M. – The Congregation of the Mission (Vincentians or Lazarists)
C.M.F. – Missionary Sons of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (Claretians)
C.P. – The congregation of the Passion (Passionists)
C.S.C. – Congregation of the Holy Cross (Holy Cross Fathers)
C.S.P. – Congregation of St. Paul (Paulists)
C.SS.R. - Congregation of the Most Holy Redeemer (Redemptorists)
C.SS.S. – Congregation of the Most Holy Savior (Brigettines)
F.S.C. - Brothers of the Christian Schools (Christian Brothers)
F.S.P.X. - Fraternity of St. Pius X F.S.S.P – Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter
L.C. – Legionaries of Christ
O.C. or O.Carm. - Order of Carmelites O.Cart. – Order of Carthusians
O.Cist. – Order of Cistercians
O.C.D. – Order of Discalced (Barefooted) Carmelites
O.C.S.O. - Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance (Trappists)
O.F.M. – Order of Friars Minor (Franciscans)
O.M.I. – Oblates of Mary Immaculate
O.P. – Order of Friars Preachers (Dominicans)
O.S.A. – Order of St. Augustine (Augustianians)
O.S.B. – Order of St. Benedict (Benedictines)
O.S.F. – Franciscan Brothers
O.S.J.D. – The Order of St. John of God (Brothers of Mercy, or Mercederians)
S.V.P. – Society of St. Vincent de Paul
S.J. - Society of Jesus (Jesuits)

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Some Common Religious Institutes of Women in the United States:

C.S.J. – Sisters of St. Joseph
C.V. – Sorer Vitae (Sisters of Life)
D.C. – Daughters of Charity, Sister of Charity of St. Vincent de Paul
F.M.A. – Daughters of Mary Help of Christians (Salesian Sisters)
M.C. – Missionaries of Charity
O.C. or O.Carm. - Carmelite Sisters
O.P. – Dominican Sisters
O.S.B. – Benedictine Sisters
O.S.F. – Franciscan Sisters
O.S.M. – Order of the Servants of Mary (Servites)
O.S.U – The Ursulines
P.C. – Poor Clares
S.C. – Sisters of Charity

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Academic Degrees for Religious

B.C.L.– Bachelor of Canon (or Civil) Law - Baccalaureus Canonicae (sive Civilis) Legis
B.U.J. – Bachelor of Both (canon and civil) Laws – Baccalaureus utriusque Juris
D.C.L. – Doctor of Canon (or Civil) Law – Doctor Canonicae (sive Civilis) Legis
D.D. – Doctor of Divinity – Divinitatis Doctor
D.S.S. – Doctor of Holy Scripture – Doctor Sacrae Scripturae
J.C.D. – Doctor of Canon (or Civil) Law – Juris Canonici (sive Civilis) Doctor
J.C.L. – Licentiate of Canon (or Civil) Law – Licentiatus Juris Canonici (sive Civilis) Doctor
L.S.S. – Licentiate of Sacred Scripture – Licentiatus Sacrae Scripturae
Ph.D. –Doctor of Philosophy – Philosophiae Doctor
S.T.B. – Bachelor of Sacred Theology - Sacrae Theologiae Baccalaureus
S.T.D.– Doctor of Sacred Theology – Sacrae Theologiae Doctor
S.T.L. – Licentiate of Sacred Theology – Sacrae Theologiae Licentiatus
S.T.M. – Master of Sacred Theology – Sacrae Theologiae Magister
S.T.P. – Professor of Sacred Theology – Sacrae Theologiae Professor
Th.D. – Doctor of Theology – Theologiae Doctor.

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Abbreviations for religious mottos:

A.M.D.G. – Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam – For the greater glory of God
D.O.M. – Deus Optimus Maximus – The Most Excellent God
U.I.O.G.D. – Ut In Omnibus Glorificetur Deus – That God may be glorified in all things.

©2002 Tradition In Action, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Used with permission.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: americanism; brokencaucus; catholic; etiquette; marianhorvat; nuns; priests
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The dignified sisters inspired respect. Above, a sister teaches protocol in a pre-Vatican II Catholic classroom.

After the Council, sisters abandoned the habit and took up jobs in the world. Below, Sister Joy Manthey "ministers" to riverboat captains and crews.
Parade Magazine, December 9, 2001

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1 posted on 05/02/2011 9:43:48 AM PDT by Salvation
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To: All
This is a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus thread.


Guidelines for Catholic/Orthodox Caucus Threads


2 posted on 05/02/2011 9:44:27 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Catholic Ping!


3 posted on 05/02/2011 9:48:08 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

A good friend of mine is a retired Monsignor. I swap back and forth between calling him Monsignor, Father and Ron. It depends upon which capacity I currently require of him. :)


4 posted on 05/02/2011 10:09:32 AM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: Salvation

The caucus label was removed because the article speaks of Protestants.


5 posted on 05/02/2011 10:29:19 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Salvation

Matthew 23:9 - call no one father except the father in heaven...


6 posted on 05/02/2011 10:41:24 AM PDT by fred4prez
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To: fred4prez

Give yourself a sticky note for June 19th


7 posted on 05/02/2011 10:56:14 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: fred4prez
Matthew 23:10 - ""Nor are you to be called 'teacher', for you have one teacher, the Christ"

So, tell you kids to stop calling their educators 'teacher' right along with those you call bible teachers, Sunday School teachers, and everything else often listed on announcements of various Protestant gatherings. Or, you could read where Paul said he, "... became your father through the gospel" and admit that there's different usages of the word that are fine with the Apostles and Christ.

It's really funny to see that while | He Who Cannot Be Mentioned | is totally banned the same trash he spews shows up here over and over in spite of having been debunked hundreds of years ago. It's also surprising to see people who claim to believe that the Scripture has everything they need don't really study it all that much but instead apply the Lego Block Method of Scripture Interpretation to just stick together whatever suits them at any given moment.

8 posted on 05/02/2011 11:03:42 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Salvation

I figure it’s hard to go wrong with “Sir” and “Ma’am,” if all else fails.


9 posted on 05/02/2011 12:25:00 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Blessed Pope John Paul II, pray for us.)
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To: Tax-chick

Back in school the best way for me to address a nun was “Please Sister stop I promise I’ll never do it again...”


10 posted on 05/02/2011 12:29:14 PM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

One hears such stories very frequently. I’ve never met any Sisters who weren’t perfectly pleasant.


11 posted on 05/02/2011 12:31:47 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Blessed Pope John Paul II, pray for us.)
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To: Tax-chick
Well yeah - you are a girl - they love y'all!

Seriously I had one bad one who beat any of us in a sick way. By far the exception. Others certainly hit me, however that being said, I certainly was an unruly student. They gave me a damn good education, whether I was open to it all the time or not.

12 posted on 05/02/2011 12:58:50 PM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: Hegewisch Dupa

It’s probably relevant that I didn’t meet any religious sisters until I was an adult ;-).


13 posted on 05/02/2011 1:10:17 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Blessed Pope John Paul II, pray for us.)
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To: Salvation
Ministers as what?? A buoy???
14 posted on 05/02/2011 2:08:03 PM PDT by starlifter (Pullum sapit)
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To: Rashputin

You are SO absolutely correct. Those who rebel against Christ’s Church and claim the Bible as their only “Truth” are most often just parrots who’ve never given much thought to the Bible in its entirety. They simply regurgitate all over the place.


15 posted on 05/02/2011 2:53:10 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("[T]here is nothing so aggravating [in life] as being condescended to by an idiot" ~ Ann Coulter)
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To: Religion Moderator
 Since most Protestant ministers are addressed as “the reverend,” this puts a healthy distinction between the Catholic priest and the Protestant preacher, and does not place the priest on the same level as men who are not Catholic.
 
For the same reason, it is inconvenient for a Catholic to call a Protestant preacher “reverend,” because this is to indirectly confer legitimacy to his heretical confession. It is much better to call a Lutheran Mr. Jones instead of reverend Jones, or use the title Doctor or Professor, if it is applicable. In writing, it is sometimes necessary to refer to a Protestant as bishop, but the title should be lower case, e.g. bishop Philip Robinson, or Protestant bishop Robinson, as a sign of differentiation from the Catholic Bishop.

I really don't think these facts disqualify the thread from being a Caucus. But if you insists --  How about Ecumenical then?

16 posted on 05/02/2011 3:00:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Religion Moderator

The facts do not berate or belittle Protestants. Could it please be an Ecumenical thread, then?


17 posted on 05/02/2011 3:01:18 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: fred4prez

“If your eye should cause you to sin, pluck it out.”

So, I assume you are either perfect or blind, Mr. Sola?


18 posted on 05/02/2011 3:04:21 PM PDT by baa39
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To: Salvation; All
The thread label has been changed to "Ecumenical" - from this point forward antagonism is not allowed on this thread.
19 posted on 05/02/2011 3:57:45 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator
Guidelines for Ecumenical Threads
20 posted on 05/02/2011 4:17:17 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Confirming this, St. Bonaventure argued that the interior life is acquired and preserved through the exterior. Just as in nature, he said, there is never a tree without its leaves and bark, nor a fruit without its rind or husk to serve as protection, so also interior recollection is preserved by the exterior demeanor and ways of being and treatment. When the exterior fails, the other fails also. (4) The reckless experiment of the last decades after Vatican II has proven the truth of his words.

(4) Alphonsus Rodrigues, S.J., Practice of Perfection and Christian Virtue (Chicago: Loyola Un. Press, 1929) Vol. 2, p. 112-3.

Bolding is mine, but I believe this statement is oh, so true!

21 posted on 05/02/2011 4:20:40 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Pretty much all the Protestant ministers who refer to themselves as “Reverend” in my town are female, liberal, mainline wishy-washies, or all the above.


22 posted on 05/02/2011 8:25:39 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: Salvation

As a Protestant, it’s still difficult to address a Catholic clergy person by those titles.

Often, I just say “pastor”.


23 posted on 05/02/2011 8:28:37 PM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: fred4prez

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html


24 posted on 05/03/2011 12:46:00 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: Salvation

At least you can have some satisfaction that the Calvinists are reading your posts. They scour each of them to find a complaint they can make to the moderators. Maybe the contents will eventually sink in.


25 posted on 05/03/2011 1:09:30 AM PDT by Al Hitan
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To: Rashputin
So, tell you kids to stop calling their educators 'teacher' right along with those you call bible teachers, Sunday School teachers, and everything else often listed on announcements of various Protestant gatherings. Or, you could read where Paul said he, "... became your father through the gospel" and admit that there's different usages of the word that are fine with the Apostles and Christ.

It's really funny to see that while | He Who Cannot Be Mentioned | is totally banned the same trash he spews shows up here over and over in spite of having been debunked hundreds of years ago. It's also surprising to see people who claim to believe that the Scripture has everything they need don't really study it all that much but instead apply the Lego Block Method of Scripture Interpretation to just stick together whatever suits them at any given moment.

I hate to tell you this but what you call trash are the spoken words of Jesus Christ...

Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

26 posted on 05/03/2011 9:12:36 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Salvation
The facts do not berate or belittle Protestants.

What facts???

27 posted on 05/03/2011 9:15:53 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool

I hate to tell you, but you can’t read. Once again, we have an example of “Lego Block” approach to anything and everything including Scripture.

The trash is the argument about calling on man Father when the Apostles do that very thing and I’m quite sure you knew before you posted that I have never and would never call Scripture trash. You, on the other hand ...


28 posted on 05/03/2011 10:04:33 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Rashputin; Iscool

The thread label has been changed to “ecumenical” meaning NO ANTAGONISM.


29 posted on 05/03/2011 10:12:10 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Rashputin

“And the stone rejected by the builders has become the cornerstone.”

(If we must talk about legos......LOL!)


30 posted on 05/03/2011 5:45:12 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Rashputin; Iscool
I never realised until I started learning Polish, that in many languages we don't address priests as Father.

In Polish it is Ksiądż (priest) -- as opposed to Ojciec (father) for example

31 posted on 05/04/2011 1:31:48 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos
I didn't know that. Learn something new every day. One of my aunts married into a big Polish family up in PA and now that you mention it, I don't think anyone ever called the priest Father. Not that I can pronounce any Polish without a struggle, but I think they were using the term you listed as being simply priest.

Those “Hunkies”, as they'd call themselves, were all far different than the common caricature would lead you to believe, that's for sure. We'd visit my aunt when all nine of her husbands brothers and sisters were there, and among the ten of them they had a total of thirteen engineering degrees. They all started at the bottom then worked their way up in the mines or mills, too. Things were so much different in this country back then that I don't know if you can even describe it to young people these days. They really don't have anything similar to use as point of reference. I have great memories of that gang and regret how seldom I get to see those who are still around.

Sorry for the lapse into the OT stuff, but it's interesting to know that the use of "Father" isn't universal since I thought it was.

32 posted on 05/04/2011 2:00:16 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Rashputin
Sorry for the lapse into the OT stuff, but it's interesting to know that the use of "Father" isn't universal since I thought it was

Well, no, it was a surprise to me too!

But then I learn new things each month in this country (and slap myself on the head every time I learn another crazy thing about the language!)

for instance, they don't use palms here on palm sunday but a strange mix of leaves bound together!

My wife's family are scary smart -- the wife is a Masters in Economics, her mother a Chemical Engineer, Dad a double Engineering and Economics scholar whose knowledge of history (not only Polish but pretty much global) scares me (I was once reading about some obscure ruler of Albania and he remembered his details off the top of his head), the sister in law is a Phd in Japanese and going for her professorship (one step HIGHER than a Phd) etc. --

The image of Poles as dumb is as silly as the image of Irish as dumb. And I note that both of these stereotypes came up recently in the 18th-20th centuries.

The Irish prior to the 16th century were regarded as intellectuals, poets etc., but post our dear Cromwell, that deteriorated to caricatures where they seemed almost sub-human. Ditto, thanks to the Nazis, the Poles were villified.

It's kind of pointed that some of the freepers here repeat Nazi generated stereotypes.

33 posted on 05/04/2011 2:12:33 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Rashputin
I hate to tell you, but you can’t read. Once again, we have an example of “Lego Block” approach to anything and everything including Scripture.

The trash is the argument about calling on man Father when the Apostles do that very thing and I’m quite sure you knew before you posted that I have never and would never call Scripture trash. You, on the other hand ...

Sorry but you are mistaken...

Again, I'll post the words that Jesus said...

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

Hey, either you believe God, or you don't...

34 posted on 05/04/2011 4:51:50 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
Hey, you agree with your own personal interpretation based on The Lego Block Method of Scripture Interpretation, while I agree with Saint Paul and everyone since then who wasn't a member of the YOPIS crowd.

So, once more, I'm not mistaken.

35 posted on 05/04/2011 5:00:01 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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To: Rashputin

It says what it says...Has nothing to do with interpretation...It’s all to do with believing what you read...


36 posted on 05/04/2011 8:17:48 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Cronos
I never realised until I started learning Polish, that in many languages we don't address priests as Father.

That's exactly what Jesus prescribes...Good to hear they are following Jesus...Do they call the pope the Holy Father???

37 posted on 05/04/2011 8:21:54 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Iscool
No, Papież. Both this and Ksiądż are what Poles have always used.
38 posted on 05/04/2011 8:24:05 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: Iscool
".Has nothing to do with interpretation."

LOL. Of course it has everything to do with interpretation since everyone other than those who those who chose to interpret things to suit themselves `understands the context.

39 posted on 05/04/2011 11:24:06 AM PDT by Rashputin (Barry is insane., so handlers keep him medicated and on the golf course.)
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