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Comparing Christianity and the New Paganism
Integrated Catholic Life ^ | March 10, 2011 | Dr. Peter Kreeft

Posted on 05/09/2011 11:11:10 AM PDT by bronxville

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To: bronxville

“There are some who believe that Islam is a pagan religion.”

In some respects, such as their lunar calendar, they are. Mostly, it is a corruption of Jewish and Christian beliefs with some violent, deluded drivel thrown in. When you read the Sura in chronological order the madness of Mohammed becomes readily apparent as his violence and his grandiosity become more evident with each subsequent passage.


21 posted on 05/09/2011 11:50:48 AM PDT by MeganC (NO WAR FOR OIL! ........except when a Democrat's in charge.)
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To: bronxville

La Civiltà Cattolica, Series written in 1850

.... pagan civilization is a regression for humanity, its liberty entailing the most shameful slavery and the liquidation of the human personality, absorbed by the omnipotence of the God-State. Therefore, even without my saying it, anyone can see by himself that modern liberalism, under the fiction of promoting liberty, tends to destroy it; under the shadow of desiring progress, it desires barbarism….It is not aversion to liberty or sympathies for despotism that lead the Church to fight their wicked efforts….Rather it is the love it feels for true liberty, its native repugnance for all kinds of despotism, the mission it has from God to save the personal independence of man that inspires it, and urges it to such a battle.-La Civiltà Cattolica, Series 1850


22 posted on 05/09/2011 11:54:45 AM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Fred Hayek

“There is nothing new about “New Age”,in fact it is the oldest lie. “The Serpent said to Eve “You shall be as gods...’”.”

Yes, which is why the author makes the distinction between “old paganism” tactics vs “new paganism” tactics.


23 posted on 05/09/2011 11:56:23 AM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: bronxville

Good stuff! And as a (happy) Protestant, I nearly fully agree....(given a Church invisible...)


24 posted on 05/09/2011 12:26:19 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: bronxville
Criticism, refutation, and replacement are also the principles behind modern holidays being celebrated to a limited extent around the same time as former pagan holidays. In actuality, reports of Christian holidays coinciding with pagan ones are often inaccurate (Christmas does not occur on Saturnalia, for example). However, to the extent the phenomenon occurs at all, Christian holidays were introduced to provide a wholesome, non-pagan alternative celebration, which thus critiques and rejects the pagan holiday.

Think so, huh??? And Catholics countered that Pagan winter celebration with Christmas trees and decorations???

Your article does not refute Hislop...All it does, numerous times, is claim 'it is not necessarily so, if'....

25 posted on 05/09/2011 12:29:36 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: bronxville

Great Post!! Thanks!


26 posted on 05/09/2011 12:34:36 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: bronxville

Here is the link to the best document ever produced on the New Age Movement that goes into the depth of it through time

It’s well worth the long read

PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR CULTURE
PONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR INTERRELIGIOUS DIALOGUE

JESUS CHRIST
THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE

A Christian reflection
on the “New Age”
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html


27 posted on 05/09/2011 12:36:17 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: sigzero
The biggest problem facing Christianity today is that Christians refuse to engage society at any meaningful level. We have abdicated. Just look where England is now. That is where the US is going.

Christians must begin to open their mouths and preach the word to a dying world. Not going on a mission to Africa or South American, but sharing the Gospel with friends, family and acquaintances right here at home in this shell of a Christian nation.

"And daily in the temple,and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." Acts 5:42

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." 1 Peter 3:15

It is necessary to be properly equipped. Read the Bible, know what the Gospel is.

"But the annointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you" 1 John 2:27a

Examine this short youtube video showing how to share the gospel.

"So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Rom 10:17

28 posted on 05/09/2011 12:38:13 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: stfassisi

C.S. Lewis once remarked that he was a converted pagan living in a nation of apostate Puritans - to a large extent, that’s the situation in which American Christians find themselves today. When one reflects it appears to have happened really quickly, it didn’t, our downfall was that we weren’t paying attention because we were too busy being robotic slaves and didn’t pay attention. The Church has been warning us over the centuries.

This more recent virulent onslaught -

1849 - NOSTIS et NOBISCUM - Pius IX
“18. As regards this teaching and these theories, it is now generally known that the special goal of their proponents is to introduce to the people the pernicious fictions of Socialism and Communism by misapplying the terms “liberty” and “equality.” The final goal shared by these teachings, whether of Communism or Socialism, even if approached differently, is to excite by continuous disturbances workers and others, especially those of the lower class, whom they have deceived by their lies and deluded by the promise of a happier condition.” http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9nostis.htm

1878 - QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS - Pope Leo XIII

“1. At the very beginning of Our pontificate, as the nature of Our apostolic office demanded, we hastened to point out in an encyclical letter addressed to you, venerable brethren, the deadly plague that is creeping into the very fibers of human society and leading it on to the verge of destruction; at the same time We pointed out also the most effectual remedies by which society might be restored and might escape from the very serious dangers which threaten it. But the evils which We then deplored have so rapidly increased that We are again compelled to address you, as though we heard the voice of the prophet ringing in Our ears: “Cry, cease not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet.”(1) You understand, venerable brethren, that We speak of that sect of men who, under various and almost barbarous names, are called socialists, communists, or nihilists, and who, spread over all the world, and bound together by the closest ties in a wicked confederacy, no longer seek the shelter of secret meetings, but, openly and boldly marching forth in the light of day, strive to bring to a head what they have long been planning - the overthrow of all civil society whatsoever.

Surely these are they who, as the sacred Scriptures testify, “Defile the flesh, despise dominion and blaspheme majesty.”(2) They leave nothing untouched or whole which by both human and divine laws has been wisely decreed for the health and beauty of life. They refuse obedience to the higher powers, to whom, according to the admonition of the Apostle, every soul ought to be subject, and who derive the right of governing from God; and they proclaim the absolute equality of all men in rights and duties. They debase the natural union of man and woman, which is held sacred even among barbarous peoples; and its bond, by which the family is chiefly held together, they weaken, or even deliver up to lust. Lured, in fine, by the greed of present goods, which is “the root of all evils, which some coveting have erred from the faith,”(3) they assail the right of property sanctioned by natural law; and by a scheme of horrible wickedness, while they seem desirous of caring for the needs and satisfying the desires of all men, they strive to seize and hold in common whatever has been acquired either by title of lawful inheritance, or by labor of brain and hands, or by thrift in one’s mode of life. These are the startling theories they utter in their meetings, set forth in their pamphlets, and scatter abroad in a cloud of journals and tracts...”
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13APOST.HTM

Your post #22 reminded me of the above encyclicals which, if one retreads back in history, might well bring us to the beginning of this current infestation of evil.


29 posted on 05/09/2011 12:55:24 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: stfassisi

A Christian reflection on the “New Age”
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/interelg/documents/rc_pc_interelg_doc_20030203_new-age_en.html

Thanks for the link. Bookmarked for later.


30 posted on 05/09/2011 12:57:44 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: Iscool

Do you agree fully with Hislop’s myths?


31 posted on 05/09/2011 1:00:04 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: AnalogReigns; johngrace

Thanks. The Judeo-Christians have been targeted for a long time. We’re in for a long fight where all good men come together, be they, Protestants, Jews, Catholics, Atheistists, Agnostics, etc.


32 posted on 05/09/2011 1:05:02 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: sigzero; nonsporting

Great post. We’ve been amazingly polite in our silence, being made to feel we were too imposing in our beliefs, which is no better than anyone elses since we each have our own godly truths.

The author of the article outlined moral relatism clearly and it’s been way too successful. Yes, we all need to arm ourselves with the Real Truth and become more bold in carrying it out into the world.


33 posted on 05/09/2011 1:15:05 PM PDT by bronxville (Sarah will be the first American female president.)
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To: bronxville

“”C.S. Lewis once remarked that he was a converted pagan living in a nation of apostate Puritans - to a large extent, that’s the situation in which American Christians find themselves today. When one reflects it appears to have happened really quickly, it didn’t, our downfall was that we weren’t paying attention because we were too busy being robotic slaves and didn’t pay attention. The Church has been warning us over the centuries.””

Exactly true!

I always appreciate this when people understand this! Sadly,very few people do,but as you pointed out through various papal encyclicals(some of my favorites),the Church saw the error immediately because it has battled similar things through the ages.

I’ll send you something you might like through freepmail-It’s not appreciated in open forum here on FR


34 posted on 05/09/2011 1:34:37 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Iscool
And Catholics countered that Pagan winter celebration with Christmas trees

Not much evidence for Christmas trees in Catholic Europe before the Reformation. Martin Luther thought they were cool, and helped to popularize them in Germany.

The have no religious significance in Catholicism anyway. Most Catholic churches do not have Christmas trees at Christmastime; they have manger scenes.

35 posted on 05/09/2011 8:53:34 PM PDT by Campion ("Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies when they become fashions." -- GKC)
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To: Campion
"The have no religious significance in Catholicism anyway. Most Catholic churches do not have Christmas trees at Christmastime; they have manger scenes."

That was one of the big differences I noticed at a Catholic Church during the Christmas season as opposed the the Lutheran churches I attended so long, no Christmas tree in the Church. As I recall there was a nice tree and decorations in the nearby Catholic school, though, where the Church used the school gymnasium and kitchen facilities for get togethers.

36 posted on 05/10/2011 1:27:03 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is insane but kept medicated and on golf courses to hide it)
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To: sigzero; Vanders9; agere_contra
The biggest problem facing Christianity today is that Christians refuse to engage society at any meaningful level. We have abdicated. Just look where England is now.

I think Christians do engage with society in the UK, just not enough. The Pope's visit there showed the signs of a vacuum. And I lived in the UK for years and yes there are vibrant Catholic communities that are reaching out. However, yes, the CoE has failed people as has the Kirk.

37 posted on 05/10/2011 1:51:40 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: Sherman Logan
Ancient paganism was not a religion, it was a whole group of religions. The devotee could seek out the one that best suited him. The closest to this in the modern world is Hinduism.

Quite correct, Hinduism has forms ranging from atheism to polytheism to monotheism.

38 posted on 05/10/2011 1:53:35 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: Iscool
Catholics countered that Pagan winter celebration with Christmas trees

Aren't you tired of being shown that your posts are wrong over and over again? A simple reading before typing would help

The Christmas tree started and was kept in the upper Rhineland of Germany only, until the 18th century. This practice remained confined to the upper Rhineland of Germany and was regarded as a Protestant custom by the Roman Catholic majority along the lower Rhine and was spread there only by Prussian officials who were moved there in the wake of the Congress of Vienna in 1815.

39 posted on 05/10/2011 1:58:52 AM PDT by Cronos (Libspeak: "Yes there is proof. And no, for the sake of privacy I am not posting it here.")
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To: Iscool; bronxville
http://newprotestants.com/2babylons.htm

http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html

There is plenty of information available that proves Hislop misinterpreted and made up everything in his book, “The Two Babylons”, and that almost every anti-Catholic book published since then, especially Davy Hunt's “A Woman Rides The Beast”, is based on the work of Hislop. Anyone who wants to know the truth will have no problem finding the facts, and the facts are that more than 99% of what is passed off as "the truth about" the Catholic Church having adopted anything pagan is nothing but pure bunk and hokum.

Since the Catholic Church worked very hard to eradicate pagan gods, holidays, and practices, it's not at all unreasonable for them to replace a pagan holiday with a feast day or something similar in order to deprive those inclined to remain pagan of that day for their holiday. Bunk and hokum sell very well, but they're still nothing more than lies told, retold, repackaged as little comic books or as “studious” works that rely on a reference to someone, who refers to someone else, and so on through multiple references, trying to hide the fact that all of the works referred to are based on Hislop' lies. That degree of misdirection is deliberate, not accidental, and by itself is enough to indict the majority of anti-Catholic works as frauds based on nothing but Hislop. The vast majority of those authors who write anti-Catholic books and articles don't care if it's all lies, as long as there are people who will pay good money to lap up those lies most authors are quite happy to retell them.

Not only that, but some of the authors are especially happy to have the opportunity to attack His One True Church because they are in reality, Gnostic anti-Christians. Slandering His Church and selling, the “Whoomp, there it is” version of salvation is their trade, not telling Christians the truth about Christ and His Church or anything else for that matter. Such authors and their followers believe that only the select few will be saved and so any lies they tell those who are lost anyway don't make a bit of difference. If they can package lies and make money selling them to misguided people, they're more than happy to do so.

40 posted on 05/10/2011 2:19:11 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is insane but kept medicated and on golf courses to hide it)
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