Skip to comments.Saudi Arabian Wahhabi Mufti Says Iranians are Zoroastrian
Posted on 05/10/2011 3:03:04 AM PDT by Cronos
Over a phone conversation with one of the Saudi Arabian newspapers, he said: there were not many Zoroastrians in history, but they have been well-known (so what! who has assigned you to be historian without documentation and authenticity, let's see what you have to say and what are your proves to the lies this time!!!).
History knows them as a nation full of hate and oppression (lie, if you meant history of Iran, for you ignorant mind, it is good to say and let you know that Iran has been known as cradle of civilization, just check this link, if you meant the country in general, you are diluting the historical fact to manipulate the reality that each and every country have had had good days and bad days and indeed your country and Bahrain are in the age of oppression and you are the puppets in the hands of the colonialism puppet master. If you are truthful tell me who is the puppet master of Iran, who are running the destiny of Iran and Iranian nation? I guarantee your answer would be no one but themselves opposite to you. Good or bad they have their destiny in their own will, and will not receive their orders from Tel Aviv or Washington. DC).
They have always tried to oppress Islam and the Sunnis (lie. If you meant Iranian Muslims or even Zoroastrians, that is a lie. Iranian originally were Sunnis when Islam came to Iran and people of Iran embraced Islam with kindness and love due to oppressions were taking from king of the time. Later in time Iranian educated themselves more and more with Islam and they found the path of Imam Ali (as) preferable to join. So, they dedicated to the Shia school of thoughts which was directly rooted and connected to the last prophet of Allah(swt), Muhammad (saw) via his family (Ahlul-Bayt).
He added: we must be wise in front of them (lie. If you are truthful why have you not accepted the public debate with Shia scholars in TV and radio with documentary evidence so people see the truth where are you rooted and where Shia Islam is rooted?!!!). We cannot accept their claims to Islam because they are hypocrites (another lie. This is nothing but a scapegoat and an old style of Wahhabis slander to dodge the truth by labeling opposition).
They are saying things out of hypocrisy while trying to harm the roots of Islam and Sunnis (lie again. Iranian in search of truth changed the school of thought to Shia, if you were honest and truthful you would accept the public debate)
he continued: the officials of the Islamic republic of Iran are of this nature (lie. It is you and your coward and mischievous masters are rooted in corruption).
They opposed sending soldiers to Bahrain (lie. Who are you think you are fooling?! Have little respect to public intelligence, Iran was not asked, even if asked, will Iran accept your and approve tyranny and invasion?!!! You are indeed blind to see the truth & light of Allah (swt).
While they claim to be Muslim (indeed Iranians are Muslims and very proud of it and proved in 8 years of imposed was that you and other tyrants of your like were supporting and encouraging Saddam in war against Irans fresh and young Islamic revolution, but where is Saddam now, by Allahs will you will join Saddam soon), they desired to harm Islam and Sunnis in Bahrain. (Biggest of the lies. Iran supported and will continue supporting all oppressed people in the world regardless of their nationality, race, ethnicity, religion, financial status, language..., but you Wahhabis are so twisted in your hearts with hypocrisy and deceptions that you made it your way of lifestyle and cannot tolerate or handle the truth).
Please note: The fonts in green are Wahhabi words and the fonts in dark blue inside parenthesis are our comments.
Shia and Sunni get along so great together. /s
When a muslim kills a muslim, an angel gets their wings.
Indeed. Or we may get the Iranis ACTUALLY converting to Zoroastrianism to spite the Sauds :-P
Really don’t care what the Saudi Wahhabi Mufti says about Iranians and/or Zoroastrians. Bloody lizard eating Taazis!
Thank you for the ping cronos :)
BTW, I’ve heard that many Iranian People, when they get the chance, would like to send ALL Shia Mullahs, IRI regime figures & their supporters to Arabestan (aka S. Arabia) for the mentioned to sort things out with their Wahhabi & Sunni brothers & sisters. Provided the mentioned are not terminated prior to deportation from Iran. If Obama is around then, he may want to join that party & see if he can take a deeper than usual bow.
Thanks... I will look into that.
· join list or digest · view topics · view or post blog · bookmark · post a topic · subscribe ·
Bronze Age Forum
Excerpt, or Link only?
· Science topic · science keyword · Books/Literature topic · pages keyword ·
Note: I just realized this topic is from May 10th!
no worries, but it just is so apt. The Sauds and Iranis will be at each other’s throats in this generation I think!
Where you been SC?! ;-)
>>>”Personally, I don’t care what the Saudis do in S. Arabia, so long as they keep it strictly within the borders of S. Arabia. And, I do agree with you that Iranian regime should be the priority to be brought down. But, all the signs from the West & the US to do so, so far, have not been promising, for whatever reasons.”<<<<
Actually, the above, only my opinion, though worth repeating, from this thread:
Careful, cuz as far as moslems are concerned, Christians & Jews are next, forever.
I don’t really care one way or the other.
Zoroastrians hate Christians and Jews too.
I have yet to meet Zoroastrians who hate either Jews or Christians. Not even hate Moslems. Remember their basic creed is “think good thoughts”, “speak good words” and “do good deeds”. They are aslo vbery trustworthy. I always hired Zoroastrians as my accountants as they were incredibly honest with money.
This may have changed over the ensuing decades but their DNA is based on “goodness” not hate.
lol... I reckon, the poster just above yours is “projecting” his/her own stance towards Zoroastrians. Just look at his tagline.
Maybe an almost “a redundant statement”. Though, noteworthy.
Those Zoroastrians, were not simply a “tribe”. Zoroastrians *firmly* held a very notable & powerful country (Iran) for many many centuries prior to Islam & even before Christ was born & Christianity as well. Judaism, also, was mainly a faith, but held no significant power in land, for all those times.
Islam is & has been after “Land” & more importantly “Power” that flows from it — it uses its ideology/doctrine (we also call it ‘religion) to do so. Very similar to Communism or Socialism of USSR.
So now, they are after those “Lands” (countries) that are traditionally & currently known as “Christian”.
>>>>”The People of the Book have tried but the followers of the Prophet can’t read.”<<<<
Yes, though, they are equally, if not more, brainwashed in their beliefs of “the Prophet” & Islam. Both of which have continued to be portrayed in positive light, by moslems & their clerics in the West & East. And, we in the west keep facilitating & supporting them.
hmmm... where did you get that, if i might ask? And i’m talking about the present, not 1700 years ago
Well, I know an ex-Zoroastrian who despises Moslems, but he was in Bombay and that was after the 2008 Mumbai attacks
however, FARS is correct -- Zoroastrianism is based on positiveness, on light, the God of light, Ahura Mazda, quite in contrast to Al
As Fars said their DNA is based on goodness not hate.
I found that a problem, but one needs to realise the socio-political reasons: before 313 (when Christianity was no longer being outlawed in the Roman Empire), Christians actually had it better in the Parthian Empire rather than in the Roman Empire and they thrived and spread.
When Theodosius declared Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire, this became a problem -- if members of your empire follow the faith of the neighboring, enemy empire, that can be a problem.
The persecutions followed
however, when the Church of the East broke off contact with the Church based in the Roman Empire then the Parthian authorities went back to being benign...
The rest of your post I completely agree with
P.S. - In mainstream Zoroastrian Faith as taught by Zoroaster, there are 3 main essentials & qualities, within broader concept/philosophy of “wisdom”, in addition to the core tenets you mentioned i.e. “good thoughts, good words & good deeds”.
These are very much part of basic Zoroastrian belief & include:
- Truthfulness (honesty or aka purity incl.) in speaking, thinking & doing
- Gender Equality
If any Zoroastrian or ex-Zoroastrian has to despise Moslems, it shouldn't be because of 2008 Mumbai Moslem attacks.
Zoroastrians, in general, have been raped, killed, maimed & more in Moslem ruled Iran for 13 centuries, and right up to early 20th century, even in their own communities, in particular.
Yet, Zoroastrians in Iran are & have been tolerant & non-violent, because that's what their faith has always taught. Though, Zoroastrians are also human. One can't expect to be raped & pillaged and yet not be resentful, though still Zoroastrians are not violent.
So, sorry to be blunt, but Mumbai affected victims (Zoroastrian or otherwise) have only experienced the tip of the iceberg, and can go cry me a river.. call me very UN-Zoroastrian words an sentiments... but that's my point.
True. They’ve probably been toooo nice...
It’s an issue of LEADERSHIP, just like in socalled “Christian” countries. All leaders of Iran since muzzie arab invasion have been moslems & almost all too weak also to stand up to muzzie ideology, for various fears, economics & geopolitics, among them, just like the west.
The guy is highly charged in addition to lack of knowledge. That’s how ‘friendly fire’ often happens.
maybe. Maybe it’s just Zoros are Mexicans... ;-P
cronos, is your tagline in Polish now?
Tak jest! What gave it away?
It looks like Polish to me!
Btw, I’m away for most of w/e starting now, so have a good w/end!
The Talmud actually depicts Zoroastrians as being the most difficult of people, and speaks of times when lighting Hanuka candles were prohibited because of a Zoroastrian holiday that sometimes coincided with it on which no fires were permitted, and the Zoroastrians were most intolerant about enforcing this. I don’t remember the exact citation, but in terms of dealing with gentiles, in ascending order, Zoroastrians were the worst, pre-Christian(?) Europeans were considered next up, and pre-Islamic Arabs were regarded as the most affable.
I’m sure you know what the Talmud says, but I can also tell you that lighting candle(s) for any religion, pagan, jew, or otherwise has never been prohibited in Zoroastrianism. And there is no such prohibition in Zoroastrian faith due any Zoroastrian holiday . More so because Zoroastrians actually believe in Light (candles incl.) as a symbol of goodness, as opposed to darkness.
In terms of other stuff about dealing w/ “gentiles”, let me know when you remember the exact citation. I’d be interested. Thanks.
p.s. - I’ll get back to any later posts of yours in a day or two. Have a good w/e
The exact term used was “Haber,” which referred to a religion which had a holiday in which fires were forbidden, and the Talmud speaks of emergency situations when the “Haberim” were persecuting Jews for lighting Hanuka candles, when it was permitted to light in your own home, rather than at a door adjacent to the street, as is preferred. These were people who worshiped the sun and the fire, a dualist theology, one good and one evil, perhaps a pre-Christian form of Manicheanism. Is this Zoroastrianism? Perhaps the name Haber refers to some other Persian religion. It was most definitely Persian, though, and still going strong in the post-Julian Roman Empire. To the best of my recollection, the discussion about which gentiles are the most obstreperous and which the least was somewhere in Tractate Shabbat, which is voluminous.
Sounds like a game of Yo Mama, Muslim style.
Then I must not have read the same description of the religion that y’all did, because the one that I read stated their belief that Jews and Christians were of the Devil, and needed to be wiped out.
Shadowstrike -- you're mixing up Zoroastrianism with Islam. Zoroastrianism is the religion of Cyrus the Great, the guy who, after conquering Babylon, allowed the Jews to go back home and funded rebuilding the temple.
odds and I have family who were Zoroastrian, we didn't just google up some random traces. And FARS is irani-american
You have made a mistake -- Zoroastrianism was the religion of the Magi who came to Jesus and it was earlier religion of Iran that was nearly eliminated when Islam came
no, I din’t confuse Islam for Zoroastrianism.
And, I didn’t just use Google. There are still things called Libraries. I actually read a book, and if I can get back there anytime soon I’ll give you the title and author of it.
If I’ve been misled, then I apologize.
no worries -- we all make mistakes. But I would be interested in knowing where you got that statement from -- that is completely unlike Zoroastrians today and for the past 1300 years. As I said -- there was persecution under Shapur II for about a century I think or less, but there was no persecution of Jews at all and Christians post that period and after that period spread quite a lot in the Parthian Empire.
The exact term used was Haber, which referred to a religion which had a holiday in which fires were forbidden, and the Talmud speaks of emergency situations when the Haberim were persecuting Jews for lighting Hanuka candles, when it was permitted to light in your own home, rather than at a door adjacent to the street, as is preferred.
Im not familiar with the term Haber or "Haberim" & have not come across it until now. My guess was that it is a Hebrew term? Maybe Turkish? It definitely is not a Persian or Indo-European word. Haberim is definitely not an Iranian (Persian) religion. However, in doing a quick search just now for "Haberism" (not "Haberim"), I found this bit of info - which seems to be related to the Jews, themselves.
Im familiar with Hanukka (an 8 day long Jewish Festival of Light), which usually falls between late Nov to late Dec? Often coinciding with Christmas, and an ancient Iranian (not Zoroastrian) festival called Yalda (a Syric word). In Persian it is known as Shab_e Cheleh (night of the 40th). Yalda (a pre Zoroastrian festival) leads me to the next part below...
These were people who worshiped the sun and the fire, a dualist theology, one good and one evil, perhaps a pre-Christian form of Manicheanism. Is this Zoroastrianism? Perhaps the name Haber refers to some other Persian religion. It was most definitely Persian, though, and still going strong in the post-Julian Roman Empire.
Keywords in this part of your post is Sun & then dualist theology. My immediate thought was, & now am convinced you were referring to Mithraism. No, it is not Zoroastrianism, nor Manicheanism. Manicheanism came centuries after Zoroastrianism, during Parthian (Arsacid) dynasty, was invented by an Arsacid Iranian (not Persian) called Mani. Its theology draws upon & mixes elements from Zoroastrianism, Christianity & Buddhism.
Mithraism or Mithra (aka in Persian as Mehr) was a very ancient Iranian deity (Sun god or god of light). It is considered Pagan by Zoroastrian (Gathic or core) standards & beliefs. It is, definitely, pre-Zoroastrian. Though still existed & had numerous followers, mainly among Aryan (by extension Persian) soldiers/warriors, during & to some extent, after Zoroaster.
An image of the ancient "Pagan" Indo-Aryan Sun-god Mithra (not the same as Zoroastrianism)
Yalda celebrations in Iran originate from Mithraism, but also incorporate those of Babylonians. Pre-Zoroaster & most definitely pre-Christ, were exported to Pagan Europe & Roman Empire. In Europe it was known as Saturnali or Sol Invicta. Nonetheless, I have so far not come across any historical account which states or even suggests persecution of Jews during Hanukka celebrations in Iran, during Yalda. Nor limiting Hanukka celebrations, in any way, in Iran, during Yalda celebrations.
A photo of a simple Yalda table (a syric word, known in Persian language as Shab_e Cheleh = Night of the 40th)
Other points worth mentioning:
Zoroastrianism is Not Zurvanism, Mazdakism, Mazdaism, Paganism, Hinduism, Manicheanism, Magism, Shi'ism, or any other that have borrowed elements from Zoroaster's teachings, and subsequently have misunderstood & represented a corrupt form of the original Faith & belief system taught by Zoroaster (an Aryan), himself, of the Vedic age (between 1500 to 500 BC).
Zoroaster, himself, taught pure Monotheism (Ahura Mazda). Zoroastrianism is strictly a Monotheistic belief system (religion) that puts heavy emphasis on ethics, not just morals. It is a reflective rather than prescriptive religion (IOW, it provides key guidelines for its followers & directly encourages them to seek knowledge & truth & reflect within these guidelines).
Zoroasters teachings also highly value & advocate free will & the use of ones mental faculties in discerning between what is good and what is evil. Because thinking underlies our words & actions, and that our thoughts, words & actions have consequences (cause & effect). So, one must choose carefully, but is free to choose between good & evil. The concept of duality also refers to a progressive vs. regressive mind (thinking). Our thoughts, words & hence actions, which will consequently lead to either chaos or order (Durj vs. Asha). Zoroastrians only worship Mazda Ahura. They are Not fire or sun-worshippers". Just as one can't say Christians are 'cross-worshippers' or Jews 'worship' the Tree of Life or Star of David.
Light, sun & fire are strictly symbolic in Zoroastrianism & represent qualities that are positive & optimistic, rather darkness which symbolically represents negativity, evil, death or a regressive mentality. The basic idea behind it is to think & say & do good so that we as human beings constantly strive towards "wholeness or perfection" (Haurvatat in Avestan language), that is to say closer to God. That's the continuous struggle between "Good and Evil" often associated with Zoroastrianism.
An image of Zoroaster (which is a Greek word) - known as Zarathushtra or Zartosht in modern Persian
Zoroaster, actually, rose against Mithraism or Mithra, because in Mithra, the oneness of God was not known to the people, plus the fact that in Mithra, sacrificing animals and also consumption of narcotics and intoxicating beverages (called Haoma) that desist the people from good reflection, were prevalent.
His adherents decided to follow his teachings & still do. But pre-Zoroastrian cultural celebrations remained. Though were very much modified & in some cases have been incorporated in ancient & present day Iranian (Persian) holidays & festivals.
If one wants to understand what Zoroaster taught, the only bona fide text to refer to is the Gathas -- translation of the Gathas - (hymns spoken by Zoroaster, himself). -- A basic overview of Zoroastrian concepts and beliefs -- Zoroastrian Faith & Festivals -- very good site with lots of information and photos though it is written by a Parsi Zoroastrian (the community in India), not Iranian one in Iran.
bookmark! Awesome, precise and detailed post, odds
A modern day Zoroastrian Temple & Zoroastrian Mobeds "priests", in Tehran, Iran.
Zoroastrians do Not worship the Sun, Fire or any object. Fire is purely symbolic much like the Cross for Christians or the Star of David or Tree of Life in Judaism.
The Sacred Fire maintained in a metal fire urn is a source of Light, symbolically of God, which they face when praying.
In a couple of more modern, yet key Fire Temples in Iran, the Sacred Fire, in a metal urn, has been kept continuously alight for some 70 yrs. In a very ancient & main Fire Temple in Chak Chak, Yazd Province of Iran, the Sacred Fire in a metal urn, I was told, has been kept alight for nearly a 1000 yrs.
Zoroastrian priests in Kerman province of Iran during a key Zoroastrian holiday (Sadeh) -- the white cloth in front of their mouth & nose is for purity purposes. They are usually worn, Only by the Zoroastrian mobeds priests, when they perform celebratory, religious rituals.
Dead Parsees are carried on a simple bier to a ceremonial gate into the private jungle park of banyan and casarina trees in the city's posh Malabar Hill district, wich surrounds the five Towers of Silence... However, with an average of three Parsees dying every day, the six-odd vultures at the towers are overfed and unable to cope, although kites and other birds help out.All Consuming FaithGriffon vultures are dying across India, apparently succumbing to a mysterious illness. Wildlife experts are becoming increasingly concerned about the viability of one species in particular. But for India's ancient Parsee religion the vultures' decline poses a more practical problem. Parsees, the religious descendants of the Zoroastrians of ancient Persia, rely on vultures to dispose of their dead, and the bodies are piling up.
by Debora MacKenzie
5 August 2000
New Scientist magazine
ping to a very informative set of posts by odds
The use of Towers of Silence Dakhma is now only practiced by Zoroastrians in India - and there too, other methods are being explored and used.
(N.B. - Parsee or Parsi Zoroastrians immigrated to India starting around early 8th century AD. So, some have retained their ancient practices, particularly Orthodox individuals/families. Parsis, in some instances, have also adopted Hindu or Indian practices, incorporating them into their own traditional Zoroastrian ones.)
Towers of Silence were traditionally built in desert areas, in Iran, centuries ago so as to avoid, for example, the problem you mentioned. This practice is no longer used. In Iran, Zoroastrians either bury the dead body in a coffin or use cremation.
Among the many factors that are contributing to the decline in the use of dakhmas by Zoroastrians are:
- the diaspora of Zoroastrians to countries where the practice is impractical or inappropriate,
- the encroachment of urban areas into the previously secluded dakhma locations,
- the excessive use of medical drugs for dying individuals - drugs that are toxic to birds, or
- a lack of birds in some locations, and
- a change in attitude among Zoroastrians (in India, i.e. the Parsis/Parsees)
The link to the webpage has very specific, accurate & thorough related information & has many photos on Towers of Silence. It is the same website (last link) I provided in post #44.
The website, in general, is very much worth exploring about Zoroastrianism, its festivals, practices, traditions, etc... and is regularly updated with upcoming events, and so forth.
A Zoroastrian cemetery in Yazd province Iran