Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Justin Martyr: 1st apology: Sacraments, Eucharist {Catholic/Orthodox caucus}
Newadvent.org ^ | 150-155 AD | Justin Marty

Posted on 05/10/2011 7:09:50 AM PDT by Cronos

Chapter 65. Administration of the sacraments

But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to γένοιτο [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

Chapter 66. Of the Eucharist

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, This do in remembrance of Me, Luke 22:19 this is My body; and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, This is My blood; and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

Chapter 67. Weekly worship of the Christians

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Chapter 68. Conclusion

And if these things seem to you to be reasonable and true, honour them; but if they seem nonsensical, despise them as nonsense, and do not decree death against those who have done no wrong, as you would against enemies. For we forewarn you, that you shall not escape the coming judgment of God, if you continue in your injustice; and we ourselves will invite you to do that which is pleasing to God. And though from the letter of the greatest and most illustrious Emperor Adrian, your father, we could demand that you order judgment to be given as we have desired, yet we have made this appeal and explanation, not on the ground of Adrian's decision, but because we know that what we ask is just. And we have subjoined the copy of Adrian's epistle, that you may know that we are speaking truly about this.


TOPICS: Catholic; Orthodox Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: eucharist
From Justin Martyr - 150 AD

NOTE: This is a Caucus thread. If you are not a member of this Caucus, please do not post antagonistic comments -- they will be deleted by the Religion Moderator.

If you do not wish to read this, go in peace brother/sister.

1 posted on 05/10/2011 7:09:53 AM PDT by Cronos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Cronos
Justin Martyr: 1st apology: Sacraments, Eucharist {Catholic/Orthodox caucus}
Justin Martyr Walks a Tightrope
Church History, Justin Martyr, Preeminent Apologist
The First Apology of St. Justin Martyr, Early Church Father (long)
St. Justin Martyr: He Considered Christianity the “True Philosophy” (March 21, 2007)
Justin Martyr on Christian worship - (the earliest record of Christian worship)
Orthodox Feast of Martyr Justin the Philosopher and those with him at Rome
St. Justin Martyr
2 posted on 05/10/2011 3:53:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

He also knew the people Jesus knew.


3 posted on 05/10/2011 10:04:18 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cronos; johngrace

Oops, I might be ahead of myself. I will look up.


4 posted on 05/10/2011 10:08:32 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: johngrace; Cronos
Again here!

This is how old the celebration of the Eucharist is!

Chapter 66. Of the Eucharist

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, This do in remembrance of Me, Luke 22:19 this is My body; and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, This is My blood; and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.


5 posted on 06/01/2011 8:07:25 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
The celebration of the Eucharist as we know dates back to Christ himself

As the Catechism points out

1338 The three synoptic Gospels and St. Paul have handed on to us the account of the institution of the Eucharist; St. John, for his part, reports the words of Jesus in the synagogue of Capernaum that prepare for the institution of the Eucharist: Christ calls himself the bread of life, come down from heaven.
Jn 6:35 and 48

5And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

48I am that bread of life.

1339 Jesus chose the time of Passover to fulfill what he had announced at Capernaum: giving his disciples his Body and his Blood:

Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the passover meal for us, that we may eat it. . . ." They went . . . and prepared the passover. And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him. And he said to them, "I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer; for I tell you I shall not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.". . . . And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood." Lk 22:7-20

7Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

8And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

9And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?

10And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.

11And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

12And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.

13And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

14And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.

15And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Mt 26:17-29
17Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

18And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at thy house with my disciples.

19And the disciples did as Jesus had appointed them; and they made ready the passover.

20Now when the even was come, he sat down with the twelve.

21And as they did eat, he said, Verily I say unto you, that one of you shall betray me.

22And they were exceeding sorrowful, and began every one of them to say unto him, Lord, is it I?

23And he answered and said, He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me.

24The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

25Then Judas, which betrayed him, answered and said, Master, is it I? He said unto him, Thou hast said.

26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Mk 14:12-25
12And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

13And he sendeth forth two of his disciples, and saith unto them, Go ye into the city, and there shall meet you a man bearing a pitcher of water: follow him.

14And wheresoever he shall go in, say ye to the goodman of the house, The Master saith, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

15And he will shew you a large upper room furnished and prepared: there make ready for us.

16And his disciples went forth, and came into the city, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

17And in the evening he cometh with the twelve.

18And as they sat and did eat, Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, One of you which eateth with me shall betray me.

19And they began to be sorrowful, and to say unto him one by one, Is it I? and another said, Is it I?

20And he answered and said unto them, It is one of the twelve, that dippeth with me in the dish.

21The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.

23And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

25Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 11:23-26
23For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

1340 By celebrating the Last Supper with his apostles in the course of the Passover meal, Jesus gave the Jewish Passover its definitive meaning. Jesus' passing over to his father by his death and Resurrection, the new Passover, is anticipated in the Supper and celebrated in the Eucharist, which fulfills the Jewish Passover and anticipates the final Passover of the Church in the glory of the kingdom.

"Do this in memory of me"

6 posted on 06/01/2011 11:28:09 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
And, lest anyone say this is just a remembrance or a symbol

1341 The command of Jesus to repeat his actions and words "until he comes" does not only ask us to remember Jesus and what he did. It is directed at the liturgical celebration, by the apostles and their successors, of the memorial of Christ, of his life, of his death, of his Resurrection, and of his intercession in the presence of the Father.
1 Cor 11:26

26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

7 posted on 06/01/2011 11:28:44 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: All
1342 From the beginning the Church has been faithful to the Lord's command. Of the Church of Jerusalem it is written:

They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. . . . Day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts.
Acts 2:42,46

42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart

1343 It was above all on "the first day of the week," Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection, that the Christians met "to break bread."
Acts 20:7
7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
From that time on down to our own day the celebration of the Eucharist has been continued so that today we encounter it everywhere in the Church with the same fundamental structure. It remains the center of the Church's life.

1344 Thus from celebration to celebration, as they proclaim the Paschal mystery of Jesus "until he comes," the pilgrim People of God advances, "following the narrow way of the cross,"
1 Cor 11:26

26For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
toward the heavenly banquet, when all the elect will be seated at the table of the kingdom.
8 posted on 06/01/2011 11:29:08 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: johngrace; Salvation
It is incredible when one reads the Bible in entirety how we see the thread through every book, how Christ's disciples are forcefully reminded of this on the road to Emmaus

I think one major drawback of the Catechism is that it does not DIRECTLY put the verses from the Bible that it quotes, but only references them.

I spent some time retracing back what it says (as I'm sure you two have done) and it astonished me how clearly the Bible speaks on our Faith

Here are further excerpts from the Catechism

1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking."

1328 The inexhaustible richness of this sacrament is expressed in the different names we give it. Each name evokes certain aspects of it. It is called:

Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. The Greek words eucharistein
Lk 22:19

19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:24
24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
and eulogein
Mt 26:26
26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mk 14:22
22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim - especially during a meal - God's works: creation, redemption, and sanctification.

1329 The Lord's Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem
1 Cor 11:20

20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
Rev 19:9
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The Breaking of Bread because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meat when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread,
Mt 14:19
19And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
Mt 15:36
36And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
Mk 8:6
6And he commanded the people to sit down on the ground: and he took the seven loaves, and gave thanks, and brake, and gave to his disciples to set before them; and they did set them before the people.
Mk 8:19
19When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.
20And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.
21And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?
above all at the Last Supper
Mt 26:26
26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
1 Cor 11:24
24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection,
Lk 24:13-35
13And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

28And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.

29But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.

30And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

31And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

32And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

33And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

34Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

35And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies;
Acts 2:42
42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers
Acts2:46
46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts20:7
7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:11
11When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed
by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him.
Heb 13:15
15By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
1 Pet 2:5
5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Ps 116:13
13I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.
Ps 116:17
17I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.
Mal 1:11
11For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 posted on 06/01/2011 11:33:07 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: bronxville; Salvation; NYer; MarkBsnr; wagglebee; Mad Dawg
John 6 is so incredibly clear -- the sharing of the fish and loaves signifying how God can create many from a few -- how can we have Eucharist throughout the world, throughout time?

If we think of this in pure human logical terms (which I unfortunately am prone to think in) -- it is impossible.

it is completely illogical, completely silly to think that Christ's body could be in all places at all times.

But then I can't remember which of you pointed out that God exists outside the space-time that we know and feel

And then it makes sense

Then when one reads John 6, one sees God doing the impossible -- not as just a "hey, look, I can multiply something out of nothing", but VERY directed

Jesus then goes on to talking about the Manna in the desert and you wonder what He's getting on to. Finally He says "I am the bread of life" -- what??? I can imagine the folks there saying "What the frill? You gave us food from nothing, then you talk about manna (food from nothing) and now you talk about yourself being food. I don't get it."

But He's not just making a metaphor, He doesn't say "it's a metaphor" as He does in Matt. 16:5–12, but He repeats it

It's not a question of "Believe me even when I say crazy things" but "This is the truth, the hard truth, believe it".

10 posted on 06/01/2011 11:42:59 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: All
starting from John 6:30, we read
30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
They asked Him for a sign, saying that Moses gave them manna in the desert. If Jesus (according to them) was aspiring to the level of Moses, He should do something as big as that.

and Jesus says something strange to them -- He says Moses didn't give you bread, My father did, and bread that comes down from heaven. Then He says that HE is the bread of life, HE is the manna -- and manna was to be eaten.

The people around Him made the same mistake you did, which is to think he was speaking as a metaphor.

Yet Jesus REPEATED the same thing, saying
48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
And now the crowd is openly rebellious saying “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
And
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.
Note -- Jesus doesn't clear up the Metaphor, like he did in Matt. 16:5–12
5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread.
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?
9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
So, Jesus DOES indicate when it is a metaphor and when it isn't.
In this case, look at the reaction of his DISCIPLES, people who had heard his teachings for so long and followed him
60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”...

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
You cannot say that this was just bread and wine of that this is a metphor for coming and having faith in the Lord or some kind of metphor for believing in Christ because of the reaction of the listeners and the very language -- to eat one's flesh and drink the blood means to do violence on some one. You see it even in Hindi where a threat is "Mein tera Khoon pie jaongaa" or "I will drink your blood" -- and this is among vegetarians! To drink a persons blood means a serious threat of injury. This is no metaphor
11 posted on 06/01/2011 11:44:41 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: All
We cannot even say it was a metaphor by incorreclty comparing it to John 10:9 (I am the gate/doorway) or John 15:1 (I am the true vine) is because this is not referenced in the entire verse in the same way as John 6 which shows the entire incident from start to finish of Jesus saying His body is to be eaten, repeating it and seeing his disciples go and not correcting them (as he did in Matthew 16).

Even in the literal sense -- Christ says he is the gateway to heaven and the vine such that we get nourishment with him as the connecting path. But John 6 is much much more than mere symbolism as He categorically states that "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

Even at the end of John 6, Jesus rebukes those who think of what He has said as a metaphor by emphasising that

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”
Jesus repeats the rebuke against just thinking in terms of human logic by saying
John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.
Just using human logic , without God's blessings behind it fails in grace.John 6:63 does not refer to Jesus's statement of his own flesh, if you read in context but refers to using human logic instead of dwelling on God's words.
12 posted on 06/01/2011 11:46:22 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: All
all of this is confirmed in Paul's writings to the Corinthians (1 Cor. 10:16)
6 Is not the cup of thanksgiving for which we give thanks a participation in the blood of Christ? And is not the bread that we break a participation in the body of Christ?
and also 1 Cor 11:27-29
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
How much clearer can Paul get without holding us by the ears and making us repeat every word in extreme detail? "The bread IS a participation in the body of Christ" and "who eats the bread... will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord" This is not just mere bread and wine anymore. This is the body and blood of Christ.
13 posted on 06/01/2011 11:47:19 PM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
Mal 1:11

11"For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."

This verse seals it for me. Puts the nail on any doubt. This is talking about sacrifice. In the old testament there was only one place for sacrifice. The temple. This verse is talking about sacrifices every place. It reads "in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering;for my name shall be great among the heathen."

We use incense at the place of an altar. We offer a pure offering which is Christ( the eucharist=real presence) at every mass. There are Catholic churchs all over the world. The sun never sets on the mass. Only the Catholic/orthodox fufills this prophecy. No!! Not any one else or group.

Not one!!!

I remember since youth how the priests would of a austere and serious look perform the incense blessing around the altar. So serious! They knew why better than most. I saw the bishop do it too. I believe they knew the fufillment of this prophecy. They had that look of careful seriousness.

Also look at "among the heathen". This can mean conversions and the church will be among heathen lands. Which the Catholic /orthodox churches stand in these lands.

Remember to pray for our brothers or sisters who do not understand or may mock.

Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!!! Amen=So Be It!!!

Lord please come for your faithful!!!

Thy will be done on earth as in heaven.

Amen!!

14 posted on 06/02/2011 6:43:52 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: johngrace
Mal 1:11

11"For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts."

Wonderfully put -- you are so right, in every place and every time

Remember to pray for our brothers or sisters who do not understand or may mock. -- I forget this part quite often, sadly....

15 posted on 06/02/2011 6:52:16 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
"Just using human logic , without God's blessings behind it fails in grace. John 6:63 does not refer to Jesus's statement of his own flesh, if you read in context but refers to using human logic instead of dwelling on God's words. "

Amen!!

I have been reading it that way in the spirit for years. We have to read the bible carefully in the Holy Spirit. I remember God tugging at my heart softly to understand this nuance. The Holy Spirit is a perfect gentleman. It is why some who can have the Holy Spirit just might be off yet have the Spirit. We have to follow a full leading. This is exactly what happened when I came back to our church. Don't worry but pray and fast a little. He will lead.

Praise be to God!!

16 posted on 06/02/2011 6:57:52 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
Hi Cronos - I am going to the Met baseball game in Ny . I am taking my couzins husband. He is a caregiver for her a beautiful christian man. He would die for her.

He never goes out much. But I can't get this site passcode on iphone. So I can't respond. But last night I found out I might be going to Poland on a video job. I am now a christian video producer/cameraman . It might be in July or August. I will get more info. If your would like to meet just say so. Also I would like to go to the Divine Mercy site. I see the hand of God in this. Since I am being changed by this powerful prayer(Divine Mercy Chaplet). I have real dreams that have come true after these prayers.

But got to go to game. I will talk tonight or tommorrow. If you can't I understand. God Bless!!

17 posted on 06/02/2011 7:12:33 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: johngrace
The Divine Mercy site in Lagiewniki near Kraków? or the one near Myśliborz?
18 posted on 06/02/2011 7:28:12 AM PDT by Cronos (Palin, Cain, Jindal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Cronos
As I remember it is closer to Krakow.

Welcome back, freeper Salvation! (Vanity)

We visited both the older convent where Sister Faustina said the Chaplet daily as well as a very modern church (sort of shaped like a ship) with a long incline approach to it from where our bus parked. We had Mass down in the basement of that huge basilica.

19 posted on 06/02/2011 8:53:01 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Cronos

I never studied the locales. I just got back from long day. thanks.


20 posted on 06/02/2011 7:32:36 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

thanks!


21 posted on 06/02/2011 7:40:11 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson