Skip to comments.Presbyterian vote allows homosexual clergy, eliminates chastity standard
Posted on 05/12/2011 2:19:50 PM PDT by NYer
.- The Presbyterian Church USA has voted to remove clergy requirements of marital fidelity or single chastity, thus allowing the ordination of ministers and lay leaders who are openly homosexual or living in unmarried relationships.
This is a lonely day for Presbyterians who believe what the Bible and the Church have consistently taught: that Gods will is that we be faithful in marriage or chaste in singleness. Now we belong to a denomination that is no longer sure it believes that teaching, said Allan Wisdom, a director of Presbyterian Action at the ecumenical D.C.-based Institution on Religion & Democracy.
Wisdom thought that the change was a separation from the historic Christian tradition and the vast majority of the global Church. It means the denomination will not necessarily support its members who struggle to obey Scripture.
It will not call them to repentance when they fall short of those standards, and it will not offer Gods forgiveness for what it no longer recognizes as sexual sins. In a society where the abuse of sexuality is devastating millions of lives, this abdication by the PCUSA is tragic.
An amendment to the Presbyterian constitution was ratified on May 10 by a majority of the churchs 173 regional organizations known as presbyteries, the Los Angeles Times reports.
Since 1997 the churchs constitution required those seeking ordination to be living in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman, or chastity in singleness. Now the constitution only requires church officials to examine each candidates calling, gifts, preparation and suitability for the responsibilities of office.
Regional church bodies will still be able to decide whether or not to ordain open homosexuals. However, some presbyteries have already ordained homosexual clergy and lay leaders without approval.
The change could lead some churches to leave the denomination or seek to join presbyteries more aligned with their views.
Rev. Dan Chun, pastor of First Presbyterian Church of Honolulu, told the Los Angeles Times his church has formally petitioned to move from the Pacific Presbytery, which favors homosexual ordination, to the San Diego Presbytery, which does not. The ordination of homosexuals was a major motive for the request.
He said he feared the vote would be divisive for our denomination, which has, for the past 50-plus years, been losing membership.
Michael Adee, a presbyter and executive director of the pro-homosexual group More Light Presbyterians, said the change was an important moment in the Christian communion.
I rejoice that Presbyterians are focusing on what matters most: faith and character, not a person's marital status or sexual orientation, he told the Los Angeles Times.
Knox Presbyterian Church in Ladera Heights, California hosted the Pacific Presbytery meeting.
Linda Fleming, 63, an elder and deacon at the church, said she had changed her mind on the issue because she thought it was inevitable.
I think it's like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It's inevitable.
Rev. Mark Brewer, pastor of Bel Air Presbyterian and an opponent of homosexual ordination, said he did not think the vote would cause any immediate crisis.
I think this is a tectonic plate slowly separating, more than a big earthquake, he said. He thought Presbyterians would Stay on the same ship but live on different decks.
The Presbyterian Church USA becomes the fourth mainline Protestant church in the U.S. to approve of openly homosexual clergy, after the Episcopal and Evangelical Lutheran churches and the United Church of Christ.
If Sacred Tradition (what all generations of the Church have taught) is ignored, then the alternative is that heretical popular doctrines of the day, like homosexual marriage, cloning, abortion on demand, embryonic stem cell research, etc., will start to be accepted by pastors and churches who want to be called modernistic, and who don't want to offend the popular culture. These formerly evil things become part of their church doctrine by a simple majority vote of the delegates to their conventions. Vice should never become virtue by popular vote. Isaiah 5:20 says "woe to them who call evil good and good evil." When Tradition is not present in a church, this is exactly what happens, and is happening now before our very eyes.
I’m not surprised. the Presbyterian Church and the ELCA have been in fellowship for some time. Only, what with the upheaval within the ELCA since their 2009 vote, one would think the PCA would get a clue...
What else would one expect from churches that allow women of questionable sexual orientation in the pulpit?
Yep, the PCUSA jumping on the apostacy train with the ELCA and Episcopalians.
Ask Fidelity ~ they sell a vast number of retirement programs to nonprofits and churches.
The Presbyterian Church USA has decided they'd rather start competing for what they view as a large number of homosexual ministers just waiting in the wings.
They'll get some, Fur Shur, butin the end there just aren't that many gays who are that involved in church stuff.
This approach is not designed to draw in new members which means that at some date certain the PCUSA will have to start selling real estate to keep the retirement plans funded.
How can supposedly Christian denominations do this?
THIS is PCUSA.....NOT PCof America.
The ELCA has already gone through that on a small scale, undercutting the retired employee pensions of their publishing house, Augsburg. Yet, they persist in chastising ministers and churches who oppose the program.
Men’s Fellowship Group to meet next Saturday night at the Platinum Club.
Presbyterian Ladies Circle to leave on weekend retreat to NYC on Friday to see the Chippendale’s.
Sign up for our mission trip to Ocean View Nudist Colony in Ft. Lauderdale in July.
[unbelievable - anything standing in the way now of any of the above??]
Of these, the PC-USA is by far the largest with over 2 million (claimed) members in 10,657 congregations. PC of America (since you mention it) claims 346,408 members in 1740 congregations.
This decision affects almost an order of magnitude more people than anything the PCA chooses to do.
This is a HUGE crime of leading people astray.
Are they going to build some adjoining bathhouses by the chapels? Really sick that it’s come to this. Not that my own church won’t undoubtedly following suit shortly. Of course, at that moment, I’ll no longer regard it as ‘my church,’ as I’ll be breaking with it for good.
Dare we ask what church that is?
Rev.18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues..........
What do you mean about the PCA?
Because they have separated the Church instituted by Christ. See my post #2.
That is why I am so glad to be a Catholic.
“I think it’s like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It’s inevitable.
I hate this “reasoning”. Being black or female is not a sin.
Read Jesus’s warning to the churches in the Book of Revelation.
My advice to Presbyterians, vote with your feet and your pocketbook.
This isn’t a religion that studies the Bible.
If you count all that have ever existed, it's more like thirty. And that's just in the USA.
11. Eleven. 9+2.
Even a tax lawyer wouldn't be able to follow that flow chart ...
As i have stated from day one. The Real Gay Agenda is to destroy the Church from within . They are getting very close to calling this a Victory.
Unfortunately for anyone trying to be a Christian in PCUSA, the denomination’s method of defending traditional morality (table or return for further study proposals contrary to it, rather than killing them outright and denouncing their advocates as heretics) was doomed to failure by virtue of the “gambler’s ruin” phenomenon. They actually had a surprisingly good run — the “buggery’s not so bad, let’s ordain poofters” proposition had been being brought up and tabled or returned for study for a couple of decades.
I think it’s like letting black people come to white churches, or letting women become ministers. It’s inevitable.......LOL!!!!!
I would agree with you, with the only caveat being that the only sacred traditions are those commanded in scripture.
Tradition sound doctrine accompanied by holy living is not present in a church, this is exactly what happens, (fixed)
The Catholic church has no shortage of traditions. Would you say there is also no problem of homosexuals in the pulpit?
Those churches have abandoned the teachings of Christ and the apostle Paul and have adopted the book of liberalism where what is forbidden is subject to popular opinion.
Great googly moogly! I think I popped a blood vessel trying to read that chart. Who came up with that crazy thing?
Nah, I’ll decline, as I’m generally not interested nor inclined to get into denominational type discussions. All I’ll say is that it suffers from the same type of degenerate leadership, and is a domino waiting to fall. I certainly hope it doesn’t happen, but I’m mentally prepared for it, as I’ll immediately sever my lifelong, forty-year ties with the church then and there.
Once you severe branch from the tree, you never know what will grow.
It was perpetrated by the Presbyterian History Society of Philadelphia PA.
Clearly they don't have enough to do.
Funny that Wiki (ahem) pedia has the same chart I found. I got it direct from the Presbys, though. It's an interesting website if you like church history. I wrote an article for the Alabama Historical Review on the history of Baptist congregations in SE Alabama, it actually was kinda fun sorting out all the various dissolving and recombining associations and groups. If you're obsessive/compulsive, maybe. :-D
<< unbelievable - anything standing in the way now of any of the above?? >>
Once you get rid of chastity, all bets are off.
Isn't it adorable?
Absolutely. LOL! It's simply fantastic.
Churches that celebrate sin, PING
"Hmmmm . . . "
Their reasoning on behalf of “teh gays” doesn’t explain why they would also support letting single male ministers bang a different woman every week with no hint of scandal.
I understand that. Neither is this the Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC). Both PCA and OPC broke off when the Gramscian Marxists infiltrated PCUSA. While PCA and OPC are separate denominations, they still fellowship and have stayed with scripture.
I have a different belief than most on this because I was raised Presbyterian. Presbyterians don’t like to be told who they can’t hire as a pastor. They resist central office type rules regarding their church.
But the liberals have been running the church for years and I’m surprised the PCUSA hasn’t started installing bishops.
This is a joke, right?
Post #10 is meant as a joke. However, I do recall a thread about a real men’s Bible study that took place at the local Hooter’s restaurant every week.
Forbidden is such a nasty, judgmental word./lib
Heck if they would only allow them to marry — no bad things would happen. Forget the chastity and celibacy — oops wrong church........<sarcasm off/
YES...what YOU said.
Gays and "singles" ~ all makes dolalrs and sense, eh! (Like that pun?)
they'd be better off selling some of their buildings to the Holy Rollers.
It is a joke. Just used a Rush Limbaugh tactic and carried the issue out to a logical extension.
If what was previously considered sexual immorality is accepted by the church as the normal standard, why not men’s fellowship at the Platinum Club? Why can’t the ladies go see the Chippendales? Why not a mission trip to a nudist colony? None of them are any worse that what they have judged to be, contrary to clear Biblical teaching, perfectly acceptable.
Just another reminder why Presbyterians are also known as “The Split Ps”
Prayers for our Christian brethern suffering
and butin the end is wickedly funny too :)