The "experience of the heavenly liturgy has been lost since Vatican II."

Insight Scoop ^ | May 14, 2011 | Carl Olson

[wideawake]

I’m not exaggerating. The Paris Bible of the friars was simply not available in 1400. It came only after printing had become more common. Manuscripts written on paper were cheaper, of course, but still required wealthy patronage to complete.

[Jeff Chandler]

with words written by inarticulate clowns

That pretty much sums up the music.

[Mad Dawg]

Fortunately there are samizdat hymnals cropping up with more and better chant and hymns of beauty and depth.

[Jeff Chandler]

Fortunately there are samizdat hymnals cropping up with more and better chant and hymns of beauty and depth.

I hope so. Most of what is offered at Mass is closer to Cain quality than Abel. Words that sound like they were written for children, music that sounds like 70s musicals. I call then "short bus" liturgies.

I pray it will change, but I know it won't in my lifetime. I'm hoping that there will be an Anglican congregation nearby that converts so I can go there.

[Mad Dawg]

What diocese are you in? We're doing a samizdat hymnal in Charlottesville (D. of Richmond) and a friend's parish in Santa Paula (D. of LA) is doing the same.

People blame it on us boomers (and Vat II) but I don't think that's it. I think as the current crop of clerics ordained in the 60's and early 70's hits retirement things gonna happen. I hope. Hymns that sound like they come from a Disney movie or a cocktail lounge just have on staying power. They are kept alive, like the NAB, by authority.

[Jeff Chandler]

We’re in the Phoenix diocese. The problem as I see it is threefold:

1.) The music ministers are ignorant of the purpose of liturgical music.

2.) The music ministers have enormous egos.

3.) The clerics share the same problems as the music ministers.

I should add a fourth problem: The appalling lack of good taste among all concerned.

I actually count some music ministers among my friends, and they are decent people, but I won’t bring the subject up anymore because they’ll never change.

[RobbyS]

I'm going by Christopher DeHamel's "The Book." The Paris Bible, reduced to pocketsize, was bought for its friars who used it for their preaching. Hamel says thousands of copies were made, and made their way into general circulation. Yes, it was expensive 200-300m livres, but not outside the means of well-to-do persons, some of whom got bootleg copies off of friars. So any one who read Latin --which was a considerable portion of all reader and and all scholars had access to the Bible.

Of course, the numbers available were nothing like the numbers of vernacular Bibles available in the 16th/17th centuries. But the Protestant notion that the Bible was "locked away" in a few libraries or in Churches chained to a lecture is simple not true.

The main point remains is that whether in the original languages or Latin or in the vernacular the Bible needs an interpreter. The modernist conceit that only the Biblical scholar has the competence to interpret is even further from the mark than the half-educated printers who thought their ability to read made them able to disregard fifteen hundred years of interpretation and to get "back" to the thinking of the early Church and the old Jews.

[RobbyS]

I woukd add one more: the inveterate experimentation. Music ministers cannot settle on one set of hymns/music settings. They are constantly changing things. Go from one church to another and seldom does one hear the same music.

[PapistProud]

We, as the real Church, have lost much. I am working at the highest levels to have the apostasy of VII overturned.

[wideawake]

To give some context: in 1400 London a workman made about 3 shillings a day. Assuming that the pound sterling and the livre tournois were convertible (and they were close in value) and Paris workmen were making near what Londoners were making, then 200-300 livres means about 40 months’ wages.

[annalex]

Is the question why "simply" or why "act of love"?

It is an act of love because in the Holy Liturgy we come to meet God and He comes to us; it is the meeting of Christ in the flesh that overpowers any other intention or objective in the liturgy. For example, when the scripture is read or the icon is viewed, it is also true that information is conveyed to the worshipper; but his disposition must not be anything that other than the encounter with Christ that is occurring, and words of God are spoken to him during the encounter.

Further, love is kenotic: it sacrifices for the lover, and so the Holy Liturgy is also an act of sacrifice, both by God in His love giving us His only Son to suffer death, but also in us bringing our pains and labor to the altar.

It is an act of love "simply" in the sense that it is a short way of describing every essential aspect of the liturgy.

"Simple" should not be taken in the sense of "austere", or "improvised". Just like a lover would not intentionally reduce the splendor of his encounter with the beloved, so we should give our best, materially, behaviorally, and artistically, to the Church, as there is no more important time in the life of a Christian than this.

[SuziQ]

Very good article explaining the importance of the changes in the new Missal. It gives us explanations when speaking with those who might question why the changes are even needed.

We had a priest, who was on the committee, come to our Parish and give a talk about the need for the changes. He said much of what this article said, and the folks in our Parish enjoyed hearing the explanations. We had a couple of hundred people total in the two nights on which he spoke, and we were surprised that many showed up!