Posted on 05/21/2011 4:46:26 AM PDT by marbren
Camping is a victim of replacement theology. IMHO the lie of replacement theology is almost as insidious as idolatry. The key to holistic understanding of Bible prophecy is to understand the role of Israel in it. God keeps his promises to Israel. This is a model to the rest of us that he will keep his promises to us as well.
A majority of the church going world has been victimized. I believed the lie for 35 years. During the past 20 I have been seeking the truth and only recently did I stop saying IMHO replacement theology is a lie and replaced it with: Replacement theology is a lie dropping the IMHO. For those that do not know, Replacement theology is the lie that the Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.
The church was polluted by Replacement theology early on. Origen and Augustine, early Fathers of the church, were the first to muddy up the scriptures in this way when they arrogantly took on the mantle of Israel for themselves. Martin Luther apparently did not study it and this lead to his anti-Semitism and Hitler. In many ways IMHO it is like a reverse of the circumcision party that led to Acts 15.
This replacement theology lie has lead to the church we have today. Everyone is running around not knowing what is happening in these end times we are in. The truth is The Church, the Bride of Christ, has a role and Israel has a role. Think of men and women, children and parents, husbands and wives, angels and people, dogs and cats, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. All these have roles God invented.
So the solution: Open your Bible, drop your preconceived notions and open your mind, ask God to reveal the truth about all this Israel stuff written in the Bible. The Lord Jesus Christ is central in it all. Gods Grace and Mercy is incredible, He does all the work. Faith and hope and love permeate the entire Bible and the greatest of these is love.
The Good works come in the sanctification process. God does the work through us. First we must be born again and justified however. The first step is to be poor in spirit and have a need for our Savior.
On to the next end of the world....
Read Romans 11:25-32
Dear Siena,
You appear to have a wish to be argumentative. I do not.
I have considered the arguments you bring forth in the past
and do not find them persuasive. Perhaps you do and I’m
perfectly happy for you to choose to believe them wholeheartedly.
I’ve no wish to rehash them, now that I reached personal
conviction in the matters we are referring to.
Instead, as much as it depends on me, I wish to be at peace with all
men, as the Scriptures command. This includes those with whom
I disagree about things that are not central tenants of the Gospel.
In my personal experience here on FR, those who wish to argue
can find that argument, but at the end of the thread, neither
side has changed their opinion. Not surprising, since these same
issues have been around for hundreds of years. I’ve also learned
that those who wish to always argue are not pleasant to be around.
Having said that, I suggested you take it up directly with the
Apostle Paul, who left us many inspired books to study. Let each
be convinced in his own mind.
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs
not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
I wish you profitable study - particularly on this momentous day
of destruction and finality.
best,
ampu
The works here would be turning to the Lord for repentance and asking for his help in removing sin then when tempted again, suffering the temptation of choice to live a better life with a stronger Faith or falling back on old behavior. This is regeneration. Lip service won’t save anyone.
Regardless, I read this thread, not really to read the posts between the various camps involved here but because I knew that there had to be at least one Catholic bashing post.
Thank you, my brother in Christ, for not letting me down!
Understanding as you do, then, the natural-spiritual duality upon which the Apostle Paul so frequently expounded, then revisit prophecy.
Of which body does prophecy speak in Revelation? The natural, clearly. So, there is a very important role that the natural Israel is to play, both it’s people and the reestablished nation itself.
This refutes the belief that the promise of God to Israel has been somehow transferred to the Church.
Well. I must've imagined all those debates on FR between traditionalists, sedevacantists, Jesuits and "true Catholics" who support Vatican II wholeheartedly then, lol.
“Replacement theology is a lie.”
_______________________
DITTOS.
Too bad you do not find Paul's classifying the church as the "true Israel" and the "true circumcision" as persuasive. And yet you tell me to take it up with Paul? That is truly funny. I think perhaps you need to look in the mirror and say those very words to yourself since you ignore his words.
I have no "need" to be argumentative as you phrase it. I merely state truth directly from the broad sense of Scripture...Paul's in almost every epistle points to Christ and the Church as fulfilling Old Testament promises. It comes up over and over again in his arguments with the Jews. I believe it is you who argue with Paul.
I agree, pew sitting fire insurance does not work.
it never fails to amaze me that there are those who don’t understand a very basic rule:
OT = types and shadows
NT = types and shadows fullfilled in the person of Jesus
Corporate Israel was the Church in the OT, once Jesus established His Church, the Israel of God was open to all who would put their faith in Jesus. These are the ones who are heirs of the promise of God to Abraham.
Which prophecy? Which verse(s) in the 22 chapters are you speaking of exactly?
SD, you are spot on in your posts. God bless you!
The Lord uses all to his own ends.
His promise to be with his Church forever is all I need to know.
Like any family, members can disagree, but, at the end of the day there is still someone to make a decision. Follow it or not at your our eternal peril.
Regardless, I simply wanted to point out the standard Catholic bashing.
It's very good to see someone putting faith in Christ first and understanding how those OT promises HAVE BEEN fulfilled.
“Scripture doesn’t say much about eternity after the millennial kingdom, but I don’t think there will be any distinctions between people during eternity”
Actually, the description of New Heaven and Earth in Revelation is pretty cool—do you really need much more than that? I’m looking forward to it.
Hasn’t the disobedience of the Jews invalidated God’s promises to them? Absolutely not. Or, to put it in the words of the apostle Paul, “May it never be!” (Romans 11:1).
Ever since the Fourth Century, when the Church adopted Amillennialism and began to divorce itself from its Jewish heritage, the prevalent Christian view concerning the Jews has been that “God washed His hands of them” in the First Century when He poured out His wrath on Jerusalem and allowed the Jews to be dispersed worldwide. An accompanying doctrine that developed over the years is called “replacement theology.” It is the idea that God replaced the Jews with the Church, that the Church has become the “new Israel,” and that the Church has inherited all the blessings that were previously promised to the Jews. Needless to say, these ideas have served as a source of much of the anti-Semitism that has characterized the Church for the past 1600 years.
The idea that God has “washed His hands of the Jews” is thoroughly unbiblical. In Jeremiah 31:36 God says the Jewish people will continue to be “a nation before Me forever.” He emphasizes the point by saying they will continue as a special nation of people until the fixed order of the universe ceases, or until all the heavens and ocean depths have been measured (Jeremiah 31:36-37). In Isaiah 49:14-16 God uses a different metaphor to emphasize His devotion to Israel. He says that He has the nation inscribed on the palms of His hands!
There are three chapters in the New Testament that strongly emphasize the continuing love of God for the Jews. These three chapters have been despised and ignored (or spiritualized into meaninglessness) throughout much of Christian history. The chapters are Romans 9-11. In Romans 9:4 Paul writes that God still has covenants with the Jews which He promises to fulfill. He then makes it clear that the Jews who will receive the blessings are a great remnant that will be saved in the end times (Romans 9:27).
Paul even specifically addresses the question of whether or not God has rejected the Jewish people. He asks, “God has not rejected His people has He?” (Romans 11:1). For 1600 years the Church has answered this question with an unqualified, “Yes!” But Paul answers it by saying, “May it never be!... God has not rejected His people whom he foreknew” (Romans 11:1-2).
But what about their disobedience? What about their rejection of God as king of their nation and Jesus as king of their hearts? Hasn’t their disobedience nullified the promises of God? Again, Paul specifically deals with this issue. He asks, “What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?” (Romans 3:3). And again, for centuries the Church as responded, “Yes!” But not Paul. He responds by saying, “May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar” (Romans 3:4).
Paul becomes so overwhelmed by the grace of God in never giving up on the Jews, that he finally bursts forth with an ecstatic proclamation: “Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!” (Romans 11:33).
Excerpted from:
http://www.lamblion.com/articles/articles_revelation16.php
I AGREE
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