Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: marbren

The church is the bride of Christ and national Israel has nothing to do with it. The Jews are Jews because they have rejected Christ, if they did not reject Christ they would be Christians. In the very early church, of course, you had Jews following Christ but after the destruction of Jerusalem, those believing Jews were now wholly Chrisitan. How anyone can say that Israel, a nation of unbelievers, are still the chosen of God is mind boggling to me. It seems that all this insistence on Israel as having some Christian significance comes from those whose faith rests in pseudo Biblical prophecies. And Hitler was not influenced by Luther for heaven’s sake. Hitler, a Roman Catholic at birth, was influenced by the Darwinian edict of natural selection and the promise of evolution.


11 posted on 05/21/2011 5:26:00 AM PDT by sueuprising (The best of it is, God is with us-John Wesley)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]


To: sueuprising
if they did not reject Christ they would be Christians.

God always has a remnant. There are Jews who believe in Christ and keep their Jewish traditions.

22 posted on 05/21/2011 5:56:05 AM PDT by marbren
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising
"As far as the gospel is concerned, they [Jewish Nation] are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all."

(Romans 11:28-30)
24 posted on 05/21/2011 5:58:45 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising
How anyone can say that Israel, a nation of unbelievers, are still the chosen of God is mind boggling to me.

Israel was chosen to bring forth the Messiah.

I can't believe the growing numbers of people who actually think all Jews are still chosen and are the same as the Church today even though they do NOT have faith in Christ. Weird.

27 posted on 05/21/2011 6:07:48 AM PDT by Siena Dreaming
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising

Read Romans 11:25-32


63 posted on 05/21/2011 6:59:50 AM PDT by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising

amen


208 posted on 05/21/2011 1:16:46 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising

Romans 11 is pretty convincing.


561 posted on 05/23/2011 11:17:28 AM PDT by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising
Romans 11 (New International Version) Romans 11

The Remnant of Israel

1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,

eyes that could not see

and ears that could not hear,

to this very day.”

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,

a stumbling block and a retribution for them.

10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,

and their backs be bent forever.”

Ingrafted Branches

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;

he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

27 And this is my covenant with them

when I take away their sins.”

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

emphasis added

The scripture is clear that Israel is the foundation of The Church. The gentile believers are grafted onto the tree that is Israel, and the nation of Israel will once again be lead to their God and to their Messiah Jesus of Nazareth. It will be a joyous union of the gentile church, the believing nation of Israel and our common Lord and Savior, Jesus.


843 posted on 05/28/2011 10:47:41 AM PDT by gitmo (Hatred of those who think differently is the left's unifying principle.-Ralph Peters NY Post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

To: sueuprising
"No apologist can claim that Martin Luther bore his anti-Jewishness out of youthful naivete', uneducation, or out of unfounded Christianity. On the contrary, Luther in his youth expressed a great optimism about Jewish conversion to Christianity. But in his later years, Luther began to realize that the Jews would not convert to his wishes. His anti-Jewishness grew slowly over time. His logic came not from science or reason, but rather from Scripture and his Faith. His "On the Jews and Their Lies" shows remarkable study into the Bible and fanatical biblical reasoning. Luther, at age 60 wrote this dangerous "little" book at the prime of his maturity, and in full knowledge in support of his beliefs and Christianity."

"Few people today realize that Luther wrote 'On the Jews and Their Lies.' (He also wrote such works like "Against the Sabbatarians.") Freethinkers should become aware of the anti-Semitic influence that Luther has brought on the world. His vehement attack on Jews and his powerful influence on the believers of the Germans has brought a new hypothesis to mind: that the Jewish holocaust, and indeed, the eliminationist form of anti-Semitism in Nazi Germany may not have occurred without the influence from Luther's book "On the Jews and Their Lies."

"Walter Buch, the head of the Nazi Party court, admitted Luther's influence on Nazi Germany:

When Luther turned his attention to the Jews, after he completed his translation of the Bible, he left behind "on the Jews and their Lies" for posterity."
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

"Many people confess their amazement that Hitler preaches ideas which they have always held.... From the Middle Ages we can look to the same example in Martin Luther. What stirred in the soul and spirit of the German people of that time, finally found expression in his person, in his words and deeds."
-"Geist und Kampf" (speech), Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

"Hans Hinkel, a Nazi who worked in Goebbels' Reich Chamber of Culture said:

"Through his acts and his spiritual attitude he began the fight which we still wage today; with Luther the revolution of German blood and feeling against alien elements of the Volk was begun."
-cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich

"Bernhard Rust served as Minister of Education in Nazi Germany. He wrote:

"Since Martin Luther closed his eyes, no such son of our people has appeared again. It has been decided that we shall be the first to witness his reappearance.... I think the time is past when one may not say the names of Hitler and Luther in the same breath. They belong together; they are of the same old stamp". [Schrot und Korn].
-Volkischer Beobachter, 25 Aug. 1933, [cited from Richard Steigmann-Gall's The Holy Reich]

Martin Luther's dirty little book: On the Jews and their lies

853 posted on 05/28/2011 12:52:01 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson