Skip to comments.A Secret Rapture on May 21st, 2011??
Posted on 05/23/2011 3:30:49 PM PDT by TaraP
Just a question in regards to Camping's failed May 21st prediction....
If the dead are raptured first, how long before the *Church* is raptured?
1 Thes. 4:13-18. This description of the Rapture says "The Lord himself will come down from heaven," "the dead in Christ will rise first," and "we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."
It says Jesus will come down from heaven but not anything about Jesus returning to heaven. I believe that the saints will meet Jesus in the clouds and follow him back to the Earth where he will set up his Millennial Kingdom...
So, the question is, does the Rapture of the Church come before the Tribulation, in the middle of the Tribulation or after the Tribulation?
Matthew 24. This entire chapter is an answer to the disciples questions about the destruction of the Temple, Jesus' coming and the end of the age.
Jesus talks about false christs, persecution, and desolation of the Holy Place. Verses 4 to 35 appear to be a chronological narative about the events.
"Immediately after the distress of those days,". "They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky,"
"He will send his angels" "gather his elect from the four winds,"
It seems to refer that the Rapture of the Church comes after the Tribulation.
Colossians 3:12 where he is clearly speaking to Christians
Therefore, as Gods chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.
We as Christians will have to go through the Great Tribulation, the ones that don't are the ones that have died in Christ....
Not sure how Camping came up with a 6p.m date for destruction, but strange enough both the Volcanic eruption and tornado in Joplin happened at 6 p.m in there respective time zones....
I understand what you say...
I think what the stumbling block for me is in Scripture where the Bible says the dead are *First* as being raptured.. Would the bible specify who is first, if both the dead and alive are going to be raptured at the same time? that I am not sure of....
So I kind of think at this point that is, maybe the Rapture of the Church will be mid-point which is the dates Mark Blitz has given in 2015 surrounding the Biblical Jewish festivals....
GOD Bless you!
1 Thess. 4:13-18 -
Meeting he church in the air.
1 Corinthians 15:52 -
No signs to herald Christs coming for his Church. This will come in the twinkling of an eye.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 -
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the deadJesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
Christians will be delivered from the coming wrath.
Revelation 6:8 -
Describes the coming wrath where 1/4 of the population is destroyed.
Zechariah 14:4 - No meeting in the air, Jesus returns to earth on the Mount of Olives
every eye shall see him
Unlike the rapture, Jesus will be seen by all.
2 Thessalonians 2: 6-7 indicates that the man of sin cant be revealed until theres a removal of a restraining power Church/body of Christ
So are you saying that everyone who has died in Christ will meet Jesus in the clouds as he leaves the heavenly throne?
If the LORD will come down from heaven first to meet the dead, where is the Church?
The Lord himself will come down from heaven,” “the dead in Christ will rise first....
If Jesus' purpose for the Rapture is to get His redeemed off the scene before He sends judgment, then it would make no sense to leave part of them behind.
After the Rapture occurs, we will have the Bema judgment, and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Those things can't happen with only part of the Church in Heaven.
I believe that what Paul is teaching in 1 Thessalonians is that we all go, it's just that the dead will go first. And all of this happens in less than a second.
What an awesome, powerful Savior we have!
I Thess 4:17-18
“Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
To give you COMFORT...
we didn’t miss ANYTHING.
Camping was WRONG, that’s all.
PS, IIRC, it wasn’t the first time he GOOFED.
So you are saying the Dead in Christ and the Church are both raptured at the same time???
I don’t see that in the scripture?
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
It says AFTER THAT...
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
I hope so Giovanna!
That is why the LORD says keep reding and encouraging one another!
It says “together with them”..
The living and the dead are raptured almost simultaneously...
so close together, that we see the raptured dead in the air on the way to heaven........
Right on...the marriage of the Lamb in Revelation 19:7-10; marriage to the bride (the raptured church). We are in our
new bodies at this point, the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s 70th week have occurred, we have in the meantime made ourselves ready, are clothed in fine linen, bright & clean our righteous acts (the Judgment Seat of Christ having also taken place)... THEN comes Rev. 20:11-21, when Christ comes from heaven on His white horse to finish things. His armies in heaven are coming with Him from heaven, v. 14, clothed in fine linen, white & clean, & following Him on white horses—THAT’S US, all believers who were raptured according to 1 Thess. 4:13-18, being with Him forever!
Come, Lord Jesus!
I understand what you are saying, but the dead would have to be on earth somewhere, if we would both see each other in the rapture....
However I don’t understand the entire way this will all come about, just reading scripture and pondering..
For 1 Thess. 4 passage, I am saying they are ALL believers in Christ. He is coming then IN THE CLOUDS (not yet down to the earth to finish things). The dead in Christ 1st & those who are alive here on earth at that time will be joined with them in our new bodies with Christ.
Secret rapture? Maybe more like double secret probation rapture!
Matthew 27:52 The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.
Amen! Now you’re thinking with some reason and logic, TaraP. Yes, we as believers will endure the tribulation.
No, that would be taking that passage out of context. You need to quote the whole scenario:
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.”
There is nothing at all to suggest they did anything but what the scripture says they did.
Still the most plausible explanation . . .
is . . . rising to meet Jesus in the air . . .
then Marriage Supper of the Lamb
then 7 years later returning to earth at Armageddon followed by Millenial reign.
Peter tells us that the earth will be destroyed by fire. And then there will be a new heaven and a new earth. Some take this to be mean a nuclear blast of some kind heard round of the world.
BTW, this book was written in 1881; you wouldn't believe how accurate it is!
In the late nineteenth century, Father Charles Arminjon, a priest from the mountains of southeastern France, assembled his flock in the town cathedral to preach a series of conferences to help them turn their thoughts away from this lifes mean material affairsand toward the next lifes glorious spiritual reward. His wise and uncompromising words deepened in them the spirit of recollection that all Christians must have: the abiding conviction that heavenly aims, not temporal enthusiasms, must guide everything we think, say, and do.
When Father Arminjons conferences were later published in a book, many others were able to reap the same benefitincluding fourteen-year-old Thérèse Martin, then on the cusp of entering the Carmelite convent in Lisieux. Reading it, she says, plunged my soul into a happiness not of this earth. Young Thérèse, filled with a sense of what God reserves for those who love him, and seeing that the eternal rewards had no proportion to the light sacrifices of life, copied out numerous passages and memorized them, repeating unceasingly the words of love burning in my heart.
Now the very book that so inspired the Little Flower is available for the first time in English.
Let the pages of The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life fill you with the same burning words of love, with the same ardent desire to know God above all created things, that St. Thérèse gained from them. Let them also enrich your understanding of certain teachings of the Faith that can often seem so mysterious, even frightening:
Jesus commands us to be ever-watchful for his return, and ever-mindful that we have no lasting city on earth. The End of the Present World and the Mysteries of the Future Life is an invaluable aid to inculcating in your spirit that heavenly orientation, without which true human happiness cannot be foundin this world or the next.
I’m not sure if this is what you’re asking, but I think it helps to think through what happens when people die, both believers [in Christ] and unbelievers, before & after the Cross.
Before the Cross:
All those who believed in God’s promise of the Messiah [Christ] and His deliverance went to Abraham’s bosom—that is, THEIR SPIRITS went there. Their bodies were buried/ entombed.
All those who rejected God’s promise went to Hades—that is, THEIR SPIRITS went there. Their bodies were buried/entombed.
From Luke 16:19-31 which describes the places and those in them, you can see that even though they are not in a bodily form, they can still see and talk and feel; there is a consciousness of where they are.
After the Cross:
Jesus went down into the lower parts of the earth (Ephesians 4:8-9) and set the captives free; He took the spirits/souls of the believers out of Abraham’s bosom (all those who died before the Cross, who believed in God’s promises of His Deliverer) with Him when He ascended into heaven.
Since Christ ascended into heaven:
The spirits of all believers who have died go straight to heaven to be with the Lord. Their bodies are on the earth, i.e., buried.
Now, when He comes ON THE CLOUDS to gather His own to Himself in the air, their spirits will come with Him; I think this is why they are first. They will be united with their glorified bodies in an instant. All those believers who are still alive on earth when He comes will also be changed in an instant and united with them and with the Lord Jesus and be with Him forever.
If I had a grandma who trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as her Savior and who died a few years ago, and Jesus came on the clouds tonight for His church [the bride], her spirit would come with Jesus and receive her glorified body in the air. And my body would also be changed into a glorified body and we, and all the other believers, would be be united with Christ in the air and be with Him forever!